Crystalize Eggs BSA

[High Lord November]

1 hour ago, PhoenixEterna said:

My one issue, in general, with all of the objections to being able to do something like this; I get people are worried about the baby inside. I get it. I really do. However, you have a BSA like earthquake, that has the change to kill....and we were okay with implementing this? We're okay with biting eggs to turn them in to vamp eggs? We're okay with attempting to kill by neglecting an egg to turn it in to a neglected dragon? But we're AGAINST freezing?

 

I'm..I'm just really confused at the thought process of the userbase being against freezing...I really am. I've wanted a feature like this for forever, for the exact same reason. 

 

 

I agree. The only gamechanger is someone mentioned TJ is in the moral objections group ... hence some offered workarounds. But I would honestly just prefer freezing of any stage.

[Shokomon]

My only question is how would this affect ratios?

 

Actually how do frozen hatchlings affect ratios?

 

Hatchlings, even frozen, are still alive, but a frozen egg is definitely dead.

 

Would the Cave end up producing more (or less) of a dragon if too many eggs get frozen and never reach hatchling or adult stage?

 

On a sheer gameplay mechanic, would it mean more commons show up in respone to people freezing too many AP common eggs because frozen eggs no longer count towards ratios?  

 

Or would it get harder to breed rare dragons if frozen eggs end up count towards ratios and too many rare eggs get frozen?

 

These may be extreme situations, but I'd like to know how this would work.

[cerimonster]

I know that every one is saying all about freezing the egg HAS to kill the embryo... but what if it doesn't?

 

We all know that dragons can stay in their eggs until it is safe to hatch- "Unborn dragons are actually physically mature and ready to hatch early on in their development cycle. However, they choose to remain in the safety of their own egg rather than leave it."

 

why don't we just have an action that says, rather than freezing or killing, that says that the current intricacies of the world are too unsafe, leave the baby in it's shell... I'm not sure if it's in the lore anywhere how long an egg can stay like this, but I'm assuming (perhaps wrongly) that it can stay that way indeffinately?

 

If that's the case, people don't have to kill the baby pixel dragon that doesn't actually exist until you get enough clicks anyway, and people get to freeze. This probably wouldn't work to collect all the stages of egg sprite sequence, unless there was a "Oh no, it is no longer safe for the baby dragon to continue hatching, you cast a safety spell on it and encourage it to stop, the egg will remain preserved until it is safe again" With it obviously never being "safe" again.

 

The other option could be similar to the mechanics of neglecteds- not received enough clicks, going to die anyway, would you like to cast a preserving spell (kind of like putting dead things into containers to preserve).

[DragonLady86]

Just stay egg forever, a la Eragon?  Lol

 

Actually, I think I've seen that lore other places as well; that dragons sometimes stay in the egg for years, even centuries waiting for the right conditions. So, actually that is a good idea. Why can't our dragons do that?

 

 

[Sazandora]

Probably because nature doesn't work that way. Hatchlings need something to keep them sustained while they're inside their eggs, and the "food" they have in the egg won't last forever. Of course one could just handwave it all and say it's "magic", but it's honestly a rather lazy way to explain anything at all. Makes one seem like they're not bothering to come up with a reasonable explanation as to why a hatchling could remain in its egg for hundreds or thousands of years.

 

This IS a browser game set in a magical world, yes. I know that, we all know that. But simply saying that "it's magic, I don't have to explain anything" just reeks of laziness.

[BrazenChase]

How deep do we really need to go in a pixel dragon game? How much do we really have  to nitpick to the floorboards?

 

We're stuck arguing about hypotheticals instead of discussing the feature itself.

 

Bottom line, it's a collection game and people want to collect sprites. Instead of arguing about hypothetical pixel dragon lore and morality, let's try and find a way to make it work instead of tearing everything to shreds.

 

It's a fantasy game, not a biology class.

[purplehaze]

But that's what we do here, don'tcha know? Overthink and beat ideas to death!  

 

Seriously, though, I have seen much less objection in this thread to the idea of killing the baby inside the egg than I have seen in previous threads on this subject. Maybe we are getting used to doing terrible things to our dragons?   Especially with the need to kill scores of them if you want even one or two Undeads on your scroll. Maybe just leave it to the imagination of the owner what they think happens to the baby? If they want to believe it can live forever sealed in the egg why should we tell them anything different?

 

Edited March 9, 2019 by purplehaze

[vianthegryphon]

I for one am all for freezing eggs at all stages, people being upset about the idea of killing the baby dragon makes no sense, I kill hatchlings regularly to try for Undeads, how is this any different?

 

I like the idea behind using an action/BSA to check if the egg is still alive as a way to "freeze" an egg. This can also work with cracked eggs too, sometimes baby birds/reptiles will pip (that is make the first hole in the shell) but then don't have the strength to continue hatching and die, so a baby dragon dying when the egg has started to crack isn't too far-fetched an idea. As for the last stage, obviously the hole is big enough for the hatchling to get out of, so maybe we can say the baby has left the hole and ran away? After all we know that hatchlings can leave your scroll if they are forced out with Earthquake or Kill. It doesn't really stop people from saying you technically kill an egg when you "freeze" it, but at least it's a little less dark.

 

Perhaps the wording could be something like this:

 

Whole egg: "You check the egg carefully and realise this egg is not going to hatch. Would you like to preserve the shell?"

 

Cracked egg: "You check the egg carefully but it looks like the hatchling was too weak to finish hatching and died. Would you like to preserve the shell?"

 

Last egg stage: "You check the egg carefully and realise that the hatchling has already left the egg and ran away. Would you like to preserve the shell?"

 

EDIT: Maybe adding a poll asking whether people want to see this with the options being "no", "yes but only whole eggs" and "yes, but with all cracking stages" would be a good idea too?

Edited March 9, 2019 by vianthegryphon

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

11 minutes ago, vianthegryphon said:

Whole egg: "You check the egg carefully and realise this egg is not going to hatch. Would you like to preserve the shell?"

 

Cracked egg: "You check the egg carefully but it looks like the hatchling was too weak to finish hatching and died. Would you like to preserve the shell?"

 

Last egg stage: "You check the egg carefully and realise that the hatchling has already left the egg and ran away. Would you like to preserve the shell?"

 

EDIT: Maybe adding a poll asking whether people want to see this with the options being "no", "yes but only whole eggs" and "yes, but with all cracking stages" would be a good idea too?

 

I think this would be a really nice idea

 

With regards to the poll, personally I don't support it - I think people should be able to collect each cracked sprite. As mentioned before in this thread, if this were put into cave with only the whole egg being able to be frozen, people would just inevitably make suggestion threads begging for all the cracked sprites to be collectable. Releasing this idea with all cracked sprites being collectable just cuts out the middleman and everybody will be happy. (Also, there's no reason to not allow people to collect all cracked stages imo)

[Sazandora]

49 minutes ago, vianthegryphon said:

I like the idea behind using an action/BSA to check if the egg is still alive as a way to "freeze" an egg. This can also work with cracked eggs too, sometimes baby birds/reptiles will pip (that is make the first hole in the shell) but then don't have the strength to continue hatching and die, so a baby dragon dying when the egg has started to crack isn't too far-fetched an idea. As for the last stage, obviously the hole is big enough for the hatchling to get out of, so maybe we can say the baby has left the hole and ran away? After all we know that hatchlings can leave your scroll if they are forced out with Earthquake or Kill. It doesn't really stop people from saying you technically kill an egg when you "freeze" it, but at least it's a little less dark.

Forgive me for being dumb, but I don't exactly understand how this works. Does it only work with eggs that died to... say, sickness or running out of time or deliberate actions? Or that any egg can just randomly decide to die before their timer hits zero? Because I do not want the latter to become a possibility.

[vianthegryphon]

@Sazandora When I read BrazenChase's post (who takes credit for the original idea) my first thought would be that it works as an action where you check the egg and then you get the text. Perhaps the action could be called "Check Egg" and the description for the action would be "Check to see if the egg is still alive (This action will allow the egg to remain on your scroll and not hatch)". You'd only be able to "check" the egg through direct action (like freezing a hatchling), it is not something that happens randomly or when the egg runs out of time.

 

It may also work the same way as a BSA though I don't know which breed should have it. Personally I would prefer it to be similar to freezing and use the same amount of times as freezing, however "freezes" and "checks" would be separate counts, so you'd still be able to freeze the same amount of hatchlings as normal but can keep eggs on top of it. Though having less "checks" to keep the system balanced would be fine too.

 

If don't know if people would want to keep dead eggs too but if so perhaps the action could be used to "check" the dead egg and keep the dead shell. Maybe "You check the egg only to find a broken shell. Would you like to preserve the shell?"

 

Also to get rid of a "frozen" egg instead of having a "kill" option you'd have a "discard" option that would say something like "You decide you no longer want this shell and throw it away." And again "discard" would be a separate count to "kill" and the amount of "discards" would be the same or less than "kills".

[SoffPigeon]

i don't know if this was brought up yet but this could add a completely new page to the site
a collections page where a crystallized/frozen egg is stored.(taken off the scroll completely once it's crystallized/frozen)

instead of it treating the eggs like a frozen hatchling they'd be treated more like the Easter eggs.
 

[Fuzzbucket]

That's the way I'd prefer it actually, rather than on-scroll display.

[DragonLady86]

22 hours ago, Sazandora said:

Probably because nature doesn't work that way. Hatchlings need something to keep them sustained while they're inside their eggs, and the "food" they have in the egg won't last forever. Of course one could just handwave it all and say it's "magic", but it's honestly a rather lazy way to explain anything at all. Makes one seem like they're not bothering to come up with a reasonable explanation as to why a hatchling could remain in its egg for hundreds or thousands of years.

 

This IS a browser game set in a magical world, yes. I know that, we all know that. But simply saying that "it's magic, I don't have to explain anything" just reeks of laziness.

Nature? we are talking about dragons.  on a different planet. How do you know nature doesn't work that way there just because the species in question doesn't exist on Earth and nothing else here does so?

 

Quote

i don't know if this was brought up yet but this could add a completely new page to the site
a collections page where a crystallized/frozen egg is stored.(taken off the scroll completely once it's crystallized/frozen)

instead of it treating the eggs like a frozen hatchling they'd be treated more like the Easter eggs.

It hasn't been brought up in this thread, but it has in the past.  People are usually just as divided over that.  some like the idea, some want them on the scroll so they can keep everything together.

[olympe]

46 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

That's the way I'd prefer it actually, rather than on-scroll display.

I don't think those people who prefer to collect whole "families" will agree with that, though.

[vianthegryphon]

I'd prefer to have it on scroll, especially if the "frozen" eggs can be named like the Leetle Tree. It would provide a different option for those that use dividers to separate their dragons.

[Sazandora]

37 minutes ago, DragonLady86 said:

Nature? we are talking about dragons.  on a different planet. How do you know nature doesn't work that way there just because the species in question doesn't exist on Earth and nothing else here does so?

I assume things in DC work the way they do in nature because TJ hasn't told us otherwise. Dragon Cave has magical fantastical features, yes, but a lot of it still works like real life.

 

I collect frozen hatchlings. I realize these things are just pixels on a screen and not real, living breathing creatures. I know I didn't always think of it that way, that's why I originally swore an oath to never freeze any of my hatchlings as I thought it was immoral... but then I grew up and realized these dragons are (sadly) not real and there's no point in me feeling bad about preventing some hatchlings from growing up. Don't take it as me just telling you to grow up and stop getting so sentimental about pixels, this is all just my own experience. I'm a cynical jerk, I know.

I wouldn't mind freezing eggs, either, but honestly I'd rather support the thought of collecting egg shells and piecing together eggs. I mean, how else would we be able to get "frozen" GoN eggs?

 

Just my two cents.

[HeatherMarie]

Personally I do not want the eggs on a separate page. To me that sort of defeats the entire purpose of being able to freeze eggs in the first place; Many people want to be able to freeze eggs as a 'completion' thing, to have *all* the sprite stages on their scroll. I don't see a separate page as accomplishing that. And really, we pretty much already have the egg sprites on 'separate pages' if you think about the Encyclopedia.... The whole point of freezing eggs (to me) is to be able to have them forever on our scroll. Not on some other hidden random page. We don't segregate frozen hatchlings that way, so why do it with eggs?

[Guillotine]

I feel like the current GoN issue forces not simply having a relabled freeze, unfortunately. The rock idea is cute and we are wizards; no reason a wizard couldn't add fancy effects.
 

[olympe]

14 minutes ago, Guillotine said:

I feel like the current GoN issue forces not simply having a relabled freeze, unfortunately. The rock idea is cute and we are wizards; no reason a wizard couldn't add fancy effects.
 

True. But in this case, it would make sense for this action to be tied in with the encyclopedia: You need to know the egg before you can create a facsimile. So, at the very least, you should have the egg sprite in the dragon's encyclopedia entry unlocked...

[DragonLady86]

16 minutes ago, olympe said:

True. But in this case, it would make sense for this action to be tied in with the encyclopedia: You need to know the egg before you can create a facsimile. So, at the very least, you should have the egg sprite in the dragon's encyclopedia entry unlocked...

Unlocked in the encyclopedia is fine as a requirement, only a handful of eggs can't be unlocked fairly easily by just browsing some hatcheries.  Given how many other things tie to the encyclopedia, I don't see why this can't as well. 

[Haki]

Not sure if this help but. I'm thinking of a human action like Remember the shell( please suggest another name). You cast the spell on the egg stage you want to preserve. The spell will remember the egg shape, then trigger once the egg hatchs or dies, it will repair the egg shell to the stage where it was casted.

This way one doesn't need to kill an egg for the shell. Some may feel like getting to keep both is too op. Since it's a human action, number of uses will be limited. I think same limit as freezing will be nice (feel free to suggest another number). Also, the preserved egg should not count toward trophy.

This method can help keep every stage of the egg, including dead stage by casting on dead egg. But only one stage for every egg.

The message upon casting can be:

"You cast a spell to remember the egg's shape" or something like that (I suck at writing someone please suggest another).

Once the spell trigger, perhaps a notification will be sent, something like:

"Your egg has hatched/died. The shell has been preserved"

Or no notification at all is okay though.

I know some will hate the time spent waiting for the egg to hatch, or 24h if you kill it.

I myself am completely fine with freezing eggs but because morality is putting into consideration for the feature to be implemented so I try to come up with an idea. Hope it helps. I would be happy enough with being able to collect eggs one way or another. 

Edit: for casting on dead egg, I think the spell should wait until the dead egg disappeared from scrolls to trigger. Since having two shells of an egg is just ridiculous.

The shells will appear on scroll, and has the same frozen icon as frozen hatchlings would be enough to distinguish between them and growing eggs.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Haki

[Suzumiya]

I would like the option to choose whether the dragon leaves behind an eggshell to freeze or not. Like, something all dragons have. A balloon, a CB Gold, a tinsel...they could all have an option to leave behind an eggshell. No need for a BSA or "killing" a hatchling inside an egg. Also no way to abuse the "wait 5 hours to get rid of egg" thing. You HAVE to hatch the dragon to get the egg. You can do whatever with the hatchling once it's born, but the egg will stay. No lineages, just the normal egg description on the leftovers. It would force people to catch and hatch commons if only so they can collect every egg type and prevent randomly freezing AP eggs or spam collecting and freezing Cave eggs to bypass the 5 hour rule. If the raise and hatch to get a frozen egg wouldn't work, then have the BSA to freeze the egg ONLY be usable after you've kept the egg for 5 hours, meaning you have to keep it whether you intend to freeze or release. That would stop abuse for cave eggs. A smaller time limit on AP eggs might help too. Like, you picked up an inbred black egg but can't immediately "kill" it by freezing it, you need to perhaps wait an hour or two, stopping people from emptying the AP by just freezing eggs over and over.

[DragonLady86]

What difference does it make if people choose to "randomly freeze AP eggs?"  it's their egg they can do what they want with it.  also, assuming egg freezing has the same limits as regular freezing, it isn't going to have a large impact on the ap.  Maybe the time will go up for a bit right after it's released, but it will go back to normal pretty fast I think. 

[olympe]

55 minutes ago, DragonLady86 said:

What difference does it make if people choose to "randomly freeze AP eggs?"  it's their egg they can do what they want with it.  also, assuming egg freezing has the same limits as regular freezing, it isn't going to have a large impact on the ap.  Maybe the time will go up for a bit right after it's released, but it will go back to normal pretty fast I think. 

Plus, most people won't be on a schedule to freeze again ASAP, so egg-freezings will spread out within a relative short amount of time.

 

And, while all possible ideas are nice and all, I personally think simple is best. Regular action with the same limits as freezing hatchlings, keeping the stage the egg is frozen at. 

And, especially since we got so many different Zombies to collect, I think it'd be rather hypocritical of TJ to allow and even encourage killing of adults and hatchlings, but not allowing killing of eggs for keeps on grounds of morality. 

 

I also think that most players who stay long-term go through different phases. Personally, I not only had a no-kill phase (that got ended when I tried to make more vamps), but also a no-abandon-my-own-eggs phase. It's possible the same is true for TJ, too. Wasn't it in the very old ToS (way back when I joined in '09) that scrolls could get burned if too many dragons were killed?