Bring Back CB Vampires

[DragonLady86]

16 hours ago, ShorahNagi said:

True, but consider the following:

 

Tinsels/Shimmers - CBs gotten via the raffle (rare, but still avaible in CB)

 

Zombie/Neglected - can be CB with no lineage due to mastering to turn a CB dragon

 

GoN/Synomorph - Summoned as a CB egg/CB adult respectively

 

While Zombies/Neglecteds can't breed all the others allow for being foundation members of a lineage.

 

As for the hybrids - they were always meant to be the result of breeding two different dragons (as with IRL hybrids), so it makes sense that there would be no CBs* of them. And breeding wise, once you get past the parents, you can have all Hybrids in it.

 

As such, I really don't see these breeds really being an argument against their return. As again with all of the above a player can start a lineage. Something which can't be done with the current way of getting CB vampires.

 

*I am aware of the CB Thuwed and Honorable Mention hybrids

/sigh. I am aware of all of this thanks.

 

The statement was vampires are the only breed that couldn't be found IN THE CAVE. All I said is that that isn't true. I also didn't not say this was a reason not to have cb vampires. Do not put words in my mouth.

[ShorahNagi]

39 minutes ago, DragonLady86 said:

/sigh. I am aware of all of this thanks.

 

The statement was vampires are the only breed that couldn't be found IN THE CAVE. All I said is that that isn't true. I also didn't not say this was a reason not to have cb vampires. Do not put words in my mouth.

I didn't mean to put words in your mouth and will admit that upon re-reading your post I slightly misunderstood.

[Babbage]

+1

I support this idea because I hate digging through bite lineages to find out what "gen" a vamp is, and would rather be able to collect true sireless vamps.

I would also like to note that I do not support a breed limit if they are re-released.

Edit: I don't hate bite lineages and do actually find them useful. I just want the opportunity to be able to build my own bite lineage without relying on other users and their vamps, as I find them rather 'messy'. There's both CB and bred dragons involved in them a lot of the time, and even an egg directly from someone else's progenitor doesn't feel like mine.

Edited November 26, 2020 by ThatOneBab
clarification about feelings on bite lineages

[LevelsOfViolence]

Another year, another necro for visibility since we still cannot get true CB vampires not attached to any other dragon.

 

[pegasi1978]

I wouldn't mind them coming back. I was here for the original release. I fought the lag off and on that Friday back in 2008 and all I came away with was one. I was so mad and frustrated that even though they were one (if not the only) thing dropping I couldn't get any more than the sole one I caught that day. 

[Paradisiske]

Full support. Just have them drop in the halloween biome. 

[_Charky]

Really quite indifferent myself, but I don't see any good reason to be against this. I suspect most people who are will be the "but I caught it in 2008 it's supposed to be exclusive" crowd.

[dragongrrl]

31 minutes ago, _Charky said:

Really quite indifferent myself, but I don't see any good reason to be against this. I suspect most people who are will be the "but I caught it in 2008 it's supposed to be exclusive" crowd.

The old Vamps would also be the only ones with 4 digit codes. The new ones would all have 5 characters in their codes, and that should be enough of a difference to prove an original or new Vamp.

 

Total support.

[Natayah]

I do support. 

 

I would also be OK if TJ, at this point, for World Lore, wants to define vampires as a sort of "hybrid infection" so there are no "new unbitten" CBs beyond the original Halloween as it is more of a venom or curse or whatever you want to call it to create the story of their species. I am OK with that. But I'd like there to also be some sort of at least "folklore" even if nothing is 100% set in stone. Heck, we can have a future Halloween or other Game event to uncover the Curse of the Vampire if you want to really hype it up.

 

But I also see that TJ, does in time, settle on decisions solidly and change things over time. Such as No More CB Hybrids. Allowing us to get past CB Holidays. Allowing us to have more than only (2) Holiday Breeds Period (CBs & Lineaged included). So it can change, you just have to show support and continue your reasons, because change can happen.

 

I just would like us to either have some fun folklore/history set for the Breed, or a change to get them from Market. I mean, you can make they super expensive if you want. This way, the only people who are buying them are those who really want to own a "True CB Vampire" for their collection, and they gain no benefit from being able to trade it away for other dragons (since Market babies can't be traded) and for those collectors who still want a "True 2G from a True CB Parent", well there are still players out there who will trade those, but there are fewer and fewer of them as time goes on.

 

And that, I feel, is the real reason I want to see CB "True Vamps" available in some way. Like when the Raffle Prizes were super rare, I didn't mind them being rare as long as the Player Base had a chance of getting offspring or lineages, even if it was more costly and you had to know people. It did spread out in time. But as those prize owners began to retire, Kill their CB Prizes, etc. the supply became really bad and the player base was in a frenzy to get anything, and paying outrageous prices to do that.

 

I see that as a problem for "2G from True CB Vampires" as well. They are just really hard to get. You have to get really lucky. And it isn't people being mean, they just aren't around as much anymore or the few who are don't want to advertise because they often get hammered with requests. Even if they do charge outrageous prices, they will still be hammered, and the annoyance value is enough for them to just stop advertising and hide and you have to find them through connections or luck.

 

For that alone, there should be a way to 'restock" the Player Base Population with some way to get CB True Vampires. To supply offspring in a reasonable way to keep the Base happy, or let the players have their own and make their own. People get really upset when the stock chain and supply and demand cannot keep balance. This Pandemic is an example. And it just isn't good for morale. I mean heck - look at the crazy stuff going on in our own world from it. And my other half thought the 70's were bad enough.

 

DC is a world and needs its world in balance in some way. However I also respect giving the Admins time to think out and contemplate and run through ideas before settling on something as the most reasonable and fair and whatever, and I understand those decisions take time. So Support, but you can implement it any way you like.

 

 I just care more about how the Player Base is impacted and the feelings and potential negativity backlash enough scarcity creates. That is less good for all.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Natayah

[Arcy]

I would like cb vamps to be obtainable by newer users, just please not in the halloween biome. I can't imagine something more annoying than hunting exclusive halloween breeds and coming back with vamps which are obtainable year round.

On 2/22/2018 at 12:12 PM, angelicdragonpuppy said:

What if they didn’t drop in the Halloween biome, but when the Halloween biome was around, they’d drop as slightly uncommon in the normal biomes? 

I like this or the 31sts idea personally :3

[DragonLady86]

4 hours ago, Natayah said:

 

I see that as a problem for "2G from True CB Vampires" as well. They are just really hard to get. You have to get really lucky. And it isn't people being mean, they just aren't around as much anymore or the few who are don't want to advertise because they often get hammered with requests. Even if they do charge outrageous prices, they will still be hammered, and the annoyance value is enough for them to just stop advertising and hide and you have to find them through connections or luck.

Is this actually a problem? I've only ever seen one post looking for a "2gen". People talk about it, but all I ever see is people wanting "real" CB so they can make their own bite lines. 

[purpledragonclaw]

On 10/30/2021 at 10:29 AM, Paradisiske said:

Full support. Just have them drop in the halloween biome. 

 

Yes please!

[LevelsOfViolence]

1 hour ago, DragonLady86 said:

Is this actually a problem? I've only ever seen one post looking for a "2gen". People talk about it, but all I ever see is people wanting "real" CB so they can make their own bite lines. 

I have 6 "2g" Vampires and I've traded heavily for all of them, after several failed attempts to find said trades in time - and I am always looking for more. So yes, a dwindling population of 2008 players is definitely a problem for collectors like myself.  

Most of these trades were done through forum PMs and Trade Hub, meaning they weren't highly visible. I would imagine other users go about getting 2gs the same way, by silently contacting people who they know have OG Vampires, or by scouring the hub.

 

Not to mention, I would bet that the fact these eggs are so difficult to obtain in itself drove away potential collectors/traders who would otherwise be interested in them. Because not only you need to find someone who has the vampire, you need to make sure they are willing to potentially waste a BSA, an egg slot, or their chance at the trade at all.     

Niche collectors not being vocal enough doesn't mean that there is zero demand for these eggs.

Edited October 31, 2021 by LevelsOfViolence

[DragonLady86]

18 minutes ago, LevelsOfViolence said:

Snipe

Hmm, alrighty I stand corrected. I have 2010 old enough to not have a lineage if that counts for anyone interested. 

[Natayah]

3 hours ago, DragonLady86 said:

Hmm, alrighty I stand corrected. I have 2010 old enough to not have a lineage if that counts for anyone interested. 

 

Between your offer in your post and sig, that is very super sweet of you. Thank you. There will be a lot of players who ask, and, maybe the interim answer while Admins/Mods decide a game option or not, is for the players to create a New Thread call it something like "Original Vampire Breeding, Trading & Gifting" so players who want to make make and/or take open offers for a time (or forever) can create a group so people don't overwhelm one person.

 

And for those who only want to Gift or Trade when they successfully create one, they can post it too. Raffle it off or Gift it or Post a Trade to take offers. And if they want to remove their scroll name and keep a "Do not message me" line in their sig (so if they get bugged, easy report to stop that.), then we have that option too. 

 

Or something along those lines. If that doesn't sound like a bad idea (because I am always about player initiatives as, if not perfect answers, at least decent ones while the game does its thing, cuz we can do some great things just as a collective of awesome people) and someone wants to run with it, PM a Mod or ask for advice of what people want (there may be a few people who want to team up and that makes threads easier to run in general), and go for it. I'd offer, but I only am poking in today cuz its 1. Halloween I'm off, 2. I'm off tomorrow cuz this cold thing has other half down with pneumonia, delirium and weak tired fall over asleep randomly lethargic cannot move syndrome. So i get to babysit and assist. otherwise, i'd already be in bed prepping for work! 

[Charu]

I actually joined ~a month too late (Dec 2008) for the OG vampires, based off the oldest dragon I have on my scroll. However, I do have some 2009 and 2010 sireless as well. One of the "weirdos" in my sireless collection is a 5th gen Thuwed. So there's your oddity of the day. I don't know if you specifically want only 2008s @LevelsOfViolence, but let me know if so. Most of them are sloppy lineages, but the few CB sireless I have are females.

 

In my opinion, a user initiative to spread sireless vampires would be cool @Natayah. We used to have those for the old holiday dragons to help people get 2Gs since you used to not be able to get CBs after you missed that year.

---

 

On topic, I definitely support dropping sireless vampires as a random drop. I think making them a rare drop only at night or uncommon on the 31st would be a good way to keep them away from the quasi-holiday status they have while also keeping the connection of them being something obtainable year round. In general, 2010 sireless are going to be more common than 2008 originals, and I think they will always hold value for that for collectors. Like how 2008 Hollies have their own value for being so old, I feel like vampires bitten by 2008s will never really go out of style. 2G Hollies used to be a lot more valuable back in the early years because you couldn't get CB if you missed the release year. They eventually became more common, but they were sought after because they're unique. For a collector, they are still kind of unique because they not only have a 4-letter code, but are the original real deal. Original vamps would fall in that same party.

 

As for lore, I think it is best to simplify the existence of new "sireless" vampires like how we justify the existence of caveborns- we don't know who the parents are. In the case of a new "sireless" vampire, we wouldn't know who bit it, just like we don't know who bit the sireless vampires from the years of 2008 thru 2010.

[Shadowdrake]

Now that regular eggs are in the AP, there's no reason not to make them a rare drop on Halloween week. Doesn't matter if they're a regular or a Halloween, even.

[SilentSkieBlue]

If there's value in starting a breeding lineage, there's value in starting a bitten lineage. The appeal in a Caveborn dragon is primarily that it is a dragon with no visible, existing ties to any other dragon. Whether obtained from the shop, a biome, or a summon, the value is found in that the only context for the dragon's existence is that which is inherently provided by the site or by the owner of the dragon. Currently I think Vampires are the only non-hybrid dragons that can't be obtained without a link to another dragon, which seems unfair. If you want a long vampire lineage, they're available or you can make your own - but if you want to start one, you're SOL.

 

I'd be in favor of making new un-sired, "original" vampires available somehow, through whatever method is deemed most appropriate. I think I personally like the idea of them dropping on "spooky" days of significance that aren't official holidays, like Friday the 13ths, the end of the months, or something like specific lunar cycles in game. I'd even offer the suggestion that they could be produced by a "Conjuration Ritual" BSA performed somehow like the Summon action where there is no indication of where or how it was summoned on the dragons page, though I don't personally like that as much.

[Firstborn Dragon]

I am wary of this, and I blame my love for the vamps as a breed.  Yes, I DO have a full set (5 was the limit I think) of 2008 vamps, which may make me biased, but the thing is biting is already it;s own beast in a way of speaking.

 

Other dragons rarity is based solely on their breed, so you know the odds. 

 

Right now I think it's around 25% chance to get a bitten egg to keep, 25% rejected but bitten, and 50% death rate on the bite option.  (Personal notes)  I would HATE to see biting being adjusted to make them even rare if the re-release of vamps were to occur.  Given the time and effort I take to build my army, and my reluctance to bite given the high mortaily rate, I just don't want it to be desimated by the introduction of new wild vamps.

 

I have traded 2nd gen vamps as I have a full set of CB vamps, I just don't see much of a demand for them.  I currently own 192 vampires, and I'd like to keep increasing that number, and I would hate to see my sole option being CB vamps because the biting option got decimated by the reintroduction of wild vamps.

 

Edit:  Sireless vamps were apparently around a lot longer then I though as I have some from 2010 (See Baron Ashbury for example) so I may be off in my 2008 count, but still...

Edited November 19, 2021 by Firstborn Dragon

[DragonLady86]

2 hours ago, Firstborn Dragon said:

 

Edit:  Sireless vamps were apparently around a lot longer then I though as I have some from 2010 (See Baron Ashbury for example) so I may be off in my 2008 count, but still...

2010 is when they were re-released. Some of these have no linages because bite records weren't kept yet but they are not "true" CB vamps.  As TJ added the linages a few months later it was a very small window to get one during that time.

[Firstborn Dragon]

Well I know that I have one from 08, but that doesn't change what I feel about the situation.  Biting is hard enough without it getting diluted if you have to be accounted with fresh CBs.  I'm not sure the site could be balanced with adding in more vamps when they already have a strange breeding mechanic.

[Skadi]

Support but only if it doesn't affect bite chances. Vampires are already a gamble, let's not punish people for wanting CB vamps too.

 

Alternatively they can be sold in the market only for exorbitant prices. It could be something nice to spend shards on.

[ToadWitch]

No one wants the old vamps to sire your new generation of biters....my heart doth ache...

 

oh man, i used to keep a bite record too, bc i know my ol' https://dragcave.net/vampire-progeny/BVXb has bitten more than that. My first vampire!

 

 

Some of my other 2010s, only have cave as a location. i do not remember if they dropped then or I bit themself. Id have to see if my old computer had those bite records. Wish we could have added the known info some of us kept on our vampires.

[DragonLady86]

On 9/12/2022 at 11:27 PM, ToadWitch said:

No one wants the old vamps to sire your new generation of biters....my heart doth ache...

 

oh man, i used to keep a bite record too, bc i know my ol' https://dragcave.net/vampire-progeny/BVXb has bitten more than that. My first vampire!

 

 

Some of my other 2010s, only have cave as a location. i do not remember if they dropped then or I bit themself. Id have to see if my old computer had those bite records. Wish we could have added the known info some of us kept on our vampires.

If they are from 2010 they were bitten but too old to have a record. The originals dropped in 2008.

[StarlightLion]

I'd love to be able to get my grubby little paws on 'original' CB vamps. I'm a hoarder at heart and I prefer caveborns over lineages I haven't built to a frankly absurd degree, to the point I axed all of the lineaged Reds and Pinks from my scroll as soon as I was established enough to collect a sufficient number of caveborns.

There's no downside that I can see to reintroducing them to the cave. The only real drawback I can see is that the owners of the 2008 originals won't have exclusivity rights anymore, but frankly I don't think that should be preserved anyway. Breed rarity inflation has been a huge problem for the DC economy in the past, and we should minimise it everywhere we possibly can.

 

That said, I'm pretty meh on the idea of releasing them during Halloween. They're a special breed, but they're not really a Hallow breed anymore. Dropping them in the normal biomes on special spooky days - 31sts, Friday the 13ths, etc - is a great idea though, and feels special and fun without posing a problem for collectors who aren't interested in them.