Profile Gender Choices

[cyradis4]

I'm not sure why sexual orientation crept into the conversation. Sexual orientation and gender identity are two separate things. Sexual orientation is about who you are attracted to (examples: heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, pansexual) while gender identity is about who you are yourself (male, female, non-binary, agender, etc). There is no place on the profile to declare your sexual orientation, only your gender identity.

Actually.... This is EXACTLY why I want it all removed instead of expanded.... And you completely missed the point of my post, if you feel the need to draw the distinction. You say "sexual orientation" and "gender identify" and are clearly drawing a difference between them. Me? I don't care what the difference is. I do not care how someone else identifies. I don't care who climbs into bed with them.

 

I. Don't. Care. I don't care if you are a hex-sexual Alpha Centaurian via Jupiter's moon Eos!

 

What I do care about is that you (general you) are a nice person, that you complete your trades, that you do as you say or tell me why or under what conditions it won't / can't happen. I care that you care about the community here, and I judge you based on what you post, your ideas, and your opinions. I evaluate you based on how you play: do you do checkers? If so, am I interested in bloodswaps and the like? Do you breed messies, so its pointless to look for swaps? I care about things like that.

 

All I even want to know is what pronoun you prefer out of the 4 that are in the English Language already (he / she / it / them). Nothing else matters to me, and nothing else has any real affect on me, and no other terms have any *meaning* to me.

 

And nothing else is any of my business.

 

Cheers!

C4.

 

 

[Laura-Borealis]

I mean, it's nice if you can express what you feel like (gender-wise), but what good does it do you (general you) if many, if not most people here don't understand what it means?

Because other peoples' non-comprehension doesn't negate it. They can ask, or look it up on Google, or remain ignorant if they choose: it doesn't change my gender identity.

 

I'd be totally fine with an umbrella term, but "genderless" and "transgender" are not umbrella terms - they have specific meanings.

[purplehaze]

I guess I just don't understand what your (generic your) gender identity has to do with anything on the forum except for a few threads perhaps in GD.

[Laura-Borealis]

Actually.... This is EXACTLY why I want it all removed instead of expanded.... And you completely missed the point of my post, if you feel the need to draw the distinction. You say "sexual orientation" and "gender identify" and are clearly drawing a difference between them. Me? I don't care what the difference is. I do not care how someone else identifies. I don't care who climbs into bed with them.

 

I. Don't. Care. I don't care if you are a hex-sexual Alpha Centaurian via Jupiter's moon Eos!

I didn't miss the point of your post - I was bringing the topic back to my request.

 

You have a right to not care about it, and to express that lack of interest, but I want to get the discussion back on track, and not dilly about with other issues.

 

Also, I wasn't addressing that solely to you. Other people brought up sexual orientation before you did (I believe fuzz may have been the first). However, I apologize for upsetting you. Perhaps you could take a break from the topic? I'd like to focus only on my request, not debate something that is irrelevant to it.

 

 

 

[cyradis4]

I guess I just don't understand what your (generic your) gender identity has to do with anything on the forum except for a few threads perhaps in GD.

Yep, this.

 

Your gender identify, while clearly important to you, has no effect on my interactions with you on a forum. I don't care what it is, and I don't need to know.

 

I don't even want the generic "male / female" icons! They add nothing, because it won't change how I interact with you.

 

And if it does change how you interact with someone..... Then you need to look really hard at your own behavior, because judging someone by how they identify, or changing how you interact with them based on how they identify, means you are prejudiced either against or for them.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Somercy]

I guess I just don't understand what your (generic your) gender identity has to do with anything on the forum except for a few threads perhaps in GD.

If you feel this way, are you then in favor of removing all gender identifiers, including the male and female ones?

 

---

 

Not directly related to above question, I'm currently using genderless, but would like to register a preference for "agender" above "genderless" or beside it, as genderless makes it sound like I'm somehow suffering a deficit or lacking in a way that agender doesn't, as well as agender being more standard in my experience. But that's strictly personal preference, I acknowledge.

[Laura-Borealis]

I guess I just don't understand what your (generic your) gender identity has to do with anything on the forum except for a few threads perhaps in GD.

Good question. If the gender option is removed for everyone, that would be fine with me.

 

My request, however, is to add some options to the list of choices.

[purplehaze]

If you feel this way, are you then in favor of removing all gender identifiers, including the male and female ones?

 

---

Yes. I only use those when they are available to know which pronoun is probably best for referring to someone.

 

I would rather see the identifier completely removed than to see it expanded.

Edited February 28, 2017 by purplehaze

[Somercy]

Yes. I only use those when they are available to know which pronoun is probably best for referring to someone.

 

I would rather see the identifier completely removed than to see it expanded.

Fair enough. I kind of wish there was a pronoun box (beside signature) somewhere, as that's the most actionable piece of gender information on a forum like this.

[Aleoleo]

Fair enough. I kind of wish there was a pronoun box (beside signature) somewhere, as that's the most actionable piece of gender information on a forum like this.

(bold is mine)

 

This is exactly what I was about to suggest. Instead of adding more gender choices, I'd rather they were all removed and replaced with a "please use she/he/they/..." field. Preferably somewhere easy to see.

[olympe]

(bold is mine)

 

This is exactly what I was about to suggest. Instead of adding more gender choices, I'd rather they were all removed and replaced with a "please use she/he/they/..." field. Preferably somewhere easy to see.

That sounds most reasonable to me. Personally, I only chose to use the female gender symbol so people know which pronoun to use for me. Everything else doesn't really matter to me on a platform like DCF. I mean, it's not as if I was looking for the love of my life over here, after all.

[cyradis4]

(bold is mine)

 

This is exactly what I was about to suggest. Instead of adding more gender choices, I'd rather they were all removed and replaced with a "please use she/he/they/..." field. Preferably somewhere easy to see.

This, I could support. A pronoun box where you could chose "he / she / they / it" because really, that's all that anyone on a forum like this needs to know.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Confused Cat]

I often look at profiles when I suddenly realize I have no idea what gender someone is. And I still have to teach my brain to remember that there are more options than just "male" and "female". (I'm working on it.)

I would like it if the other options were more visible everywhere - on this forum and in the world; I think that would help teach all the slow-learning brains.

 

Anyway mostly I would just like to know what pronouns to use. So if we can't get gender options for everybody, then I think replacing them with a "pronouns" field would be a good alternative.

 

One thing I don't understand is why there is a "Transgender" option but no "Transmale" and "Transfemale". Probably just because of which symbols are (or aren't) available? It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me otherwise.

[Pokemonfan13]

That's true. "Transgender" doesn't give any clue as to the pronoun to use. And don't most transgender people feel rather strongly about people using the correct pronouns because of the struggle it took for them to be able to express their true gender?

 

I think I'm also leaning towards a system where the person isn't actually claiming a specific gender identiy, just telling people which pronoun they prefer. If that's alongside a more comprehensive gender selection, that might work. After all, someone who doesn't understand the symbol can just look at the "please call me she" and have their feet on the ground.

 

Because it's true. While gender identity can matter a lot to the person posting, it often doesn't matter so much to other people. I also tend to fall into the "I'm accepting but I'm mostly not interested in figuring out what everything means" group.

[Dragon_Arbock]

Just my opinion, but I don't see gender as important on the internet. It's not going to affect how I treat you, and in most cases I don't really want or need to know. If someone doesn't have it indicated, I usually avoid asking. There's a person I've talked to every week on skype for the last few years about nascar, and I still don't know their gender. Never asked.

Mine's displayed on here because I made this account before I got in the habit of not telling. I could remove it, but most people will probably remember. That being said, I could care less if people call me a guy. It's never mattered to me personally, for various reasons.

But I'd sooner have all forms of gender under avatars removed than add more- I see it as something that might incite harassment, unfortunately.

[octopi]

Honestly, as someone whose gender falls somewhere between "uncomfortable noncommittal shrug" and "the 'it is a mystery' ghost", I think I can safely say that most of us people with weird genders don't really expect to be specifically catered to. We get that our identities are obscure and no one's going to really understand them unless we explain. It's just that being met with a dropdown menu with four choices, none of which describe you in the slightest, is kind of disconcerting, especially when your gender is such an important part of your identity.

 

More specific choices or a fill-in field for gender would be fantastic, but I get that it might not be doable or practical. I'd be more than happy with just an "other" option (or nonbinary, since that's debatably the same thing), and you can specify what exact identity/pronouns you use in your signature or profile if it's important.

 

I don't claim to speak for everyone, obviously; this is just my stance on the matter.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Fractional Pi Day

[Fuzzbucket]

I'm not sure why sexual orientation crept into the conversation. Sexual orientation and gender identity are two separate things. Sexual orientation is about who you are attracted to (examples: heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, pansexual) while gender identity is about who you are yourself (male, female, non-binary, agender, etc). There is no place on the profile to declare your sexual orientation, only your gender identity.

 

 

So to bring it back to what I'm requesting:

 

 

I'd like to request that we add a few options to this list, if possible:

 

-Non-binary (my choice if only one is added)

-Genderfluid

-Genderqueer

-Agender (arguably this is the same as genderless, so it could be left off)

 

 

As for the symbols, I do not care what is used, as far as I'm concerned they don't need one (like "not telling" does now) or they can share the circle (if that is possible with the coding).

 

I do think the expanded symbol set is confusing, because they can mean different things to different people. As far as I'm concerned, they are only important in the discussion if they are inextricably tied to the forum software, i.e. each gender option absolutely HAS to have a symbol (I don't think this is true, since "not telling" doesn't have one).

Yes I was the person who brought it up. Because it is all slipping towards including everything.

 

Which is all terribly inclusive but extremely not necessary in a dragon breeding site. As someone said - all we need is which pronoun - and please let it be just a few, like cy4 said:

 

This, I could support. A pronoun box where you could chose "he / she / they / it" because really, that's all that anyone on a forum like this needs to know.

 

This isn't a dating site. That is ALL we need. If people want to put all the rest in their profile, they can, but why do I need to know if someone here is trans, cis, or whatever. How does it affect posting here ?

 

I'm TOTALLY with pokemonfan:

While gender identity can matter a lot to the person posting, it often doesn't matter so much to other people. I also tend to fall into the "I'm accepting but I'm mostly not interested in figuring out what everything means" group.

 

99% of the time, what gender the person you are asking for a gold egg from is completely irrelevant. Proof in point? I have traded heaps of times with c4 over the years. Until today I thought she was a guy, not that I thought about it that much. It affects exactly nothing that she just posted she's a woman. Who cares, here ? If I met her and was considering making a pass, it might matter....

[cyradis4]

99% of the time, what gender the person you are asking for a gold egg from is completely irrelevant. Proof in point? I have traded heaps of times with c4 over the years. Until today I thought she was a guy, not that I thought about it that much. It affects exactly nothing that she just posted she's a woman. Who cares, here ? If I met her and was considering making a pass, it might matter....

Hahahahha you bet it'd matter if you make a pass. But yea for whatever reason, despite my handle being after a female character..... More often than not I get pegged as "male" online. I find it more amusing than anything else, especially considering I'm what an earlier age would have called a "tomboy".

 

But yes, unless you are going to be dating someone in real life.... most of the time gender or sexuality just does not matter. And it should NOT matter. Everyone should be treated the same regardless. Sadly.... The world is not quite there yet. :/

 

But yea, my ideal for a forum like this is something like a drop down that says:

"Please use this pronoun" with the options of:

He

She

They

 

You can include "it" but personally I'd feel really weird using "it" for a person. It is the proper genderless pronoun in the English language but.... We're talking people, you know? Not an "it". Silly of me, but I think most people won't use it either.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[pinkgothic]

But yea, my ideal for a forum like this is something like a drop down that says:

"Please use this pronoun" with the options of:

He

She

They

 

You can include "it" but personally I'd feel really weird using "it" for a person. It is the proper genderless pronoun in the English language but.... We're talking people, you know? Not an "it". Silly of me, but I think most people won't use it either.

 

Maybe just have an "Other" with an option to put what they'd prefer? 'They' can be tricky as a singular pronoun on an international site, because it often (definitely not always, but I've seen this happen) confuses non-native speakers, so there've been a few attempts to make neutral ones (without existing meanings that they might be confused with).

 

If you want to stick to a preset list: I think xe/xer (or xis) is a common set? (I am badly informed.)

 

I personally like the aesthetics of the set ve/ver and use it in fiction (and am also totally fine with it if people use that for me, but I'm entirely pronoun-agnostic for myself, so... probably generally not the best source for thoughts on this?).

[cyradis4]

Maybe just have an "Other" with an option to put what they'd prefer? 'They' can be tricky as a singular pronoun on an international site, because it often (definitely not always, but I've seen this happen) confuses non-native speakers, so there've been a few attempts to make neutral ones (without existing meanings that they might be confused with).

 

If you want to stick to a preset list: I think xe/xer (or xis) is a common set? (I am badly informed.)

 

I personally like the aesthetics of the set ve/ver and use it in fiction (and am also totally fine with it if people use that for me, but I'm entirely pronoun-agnostic for myself, so... probably generally not the best source for thoughts on this?).

The problem with the made up pronouns is primarily that they change depending on who you speak to. Someone who is not a native speaker will be able to make more sense out of a "many people" pronoun that the dictionaries recognize than they will a highly changeable made up pronoun. And "they" can also be used when the number of people is unknown, so I'd rather use a pronoun type that is already in use when gender is unknown than use something made up that I've never used before.

 

Made up pronouns are tricky because no one agrees on what they are, what they should be, or anything like that. I've also seen things like s/he and various versions of using x or z.

 

That's just what I've happened across various times when I've seen people go postal over the whole gender identity / sexual orientation subject. *shrug* As I've said, I don't get what the fuss is about. I just don't care either way. If the whole community would come up with one gender neutral pronoun set, and *agree* on it, then I'd use it. But it seems like every time I turn around, some new gender orientation is making up a new pronoun set. Frankly, I'm not going to play that game with the language when only a tiny fraction of a percent of the population would ever consider using it and there's already a perfectly serviceable gender neutral alternative.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Fuzzbucket]

I'd love to know how this all works in languages that have every single noun with a gender attached. A young girl - Mädchen - in German is an It. So is a Fräulein - though I have just discovered that it is now considered an insult... Where you have a language like French, where you refer to a table as she; to a tree as he...

 

English is rather annoying here; I suspect this really isn't a huge issue in other languages - olympe, can you comment ?

[Fuzzbucket]

This came up in Canada recently.

 

Here are two very good articles about a professor at U of T.

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/cus...rticle32373933/

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37875695

 

The thing is - where do you stop ?

[Obscure_Trash]

This came up in Canada recently.

 

Here are two very good articles about a professor at U of T.

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/cus...rticle32373933/

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37875695

 

The thing is - where do you stop ?

Let's please not start a slippery slope argument. This suggestion was very clear in "let's please just add two or three more umbrella terms" and that's literally it.

[Somercy]

You can include "it" but personally I'd feel really weird using "it" for a person. It is the proper genderless pronoun in the English language but.... We're talking people, you know? Not an "it". Silly of me, but I think most people won't use it either.

Ah, there are some people who genuinely prefer 'it'. My datemate is one of them.

[olympe]

I'd love to know how this all works in languages that have every single noun with a gender attached. A young girl - Mädchen - in German is an It. So is a Fräulein - though I have just discovered that it is now considered an insult... Where you have a language like French, where you refer to a table as she; to a tree as he...

 

English is rather annoying here; I suspect this really isn't a huge issue in other languages - olympe, can you comment ?

In German, we typically use the equivalent of he or she or, if the gender is unknown, the equivalent of she/he or he/she. I'm not really sure whether there's a certain preference for the order of pronouns, though with nouns, the female version is used first in most cases (actresses and actors, heroines and heroes...). But it gets worse with nouns. Because people don't like to write lots of stuff that's almost devoid of meaning in order to be politically correct. So we often get shortened versions, like hero(in)es or prince/ss. It just looks awkward, and I hate using these made-up forms, so I avoid them like the plague.

 

And I seriously hope that English won't change in that way ever.

 

ETA: Sorry, I honestly don't know about French, as my French is as good as non-existent.

 

That being said, and lacking any experience in trying to address genders out of the usual spectrum, I suspect that pretty much anyone can be convinced to either be male, female or neither, represented by the pronouns he, she or they. If I look at the - probably very incomplete - list on wikipedia .org, my head starts to spin. How is anybody supposed to remember e, E, em ey, hu, pe, per, thon, ve, xe, ye, ze/hir, ze/mer, ze/zir and zhim, much less what they mean exactly?

Edited February 28, 2017 by olympe