ANSWERED:bring back cb prizes

[Fiona]

I agree that debating this now is kinda futile. That ship sailed a long time ago.

 

But remember too that GoN originally couldn't breed. Remember the years of "why can't they? They should be able to!" suggestions? And everyone could have one if they could get their Legendaries to cooperate. So saying that making Prizes unbreedable from the start would have lessened the drama may not be true.

 

Heck, there's still sometimes a push for Papers to breed and they never were able to. And while rare aren't terribly so. People like being able to get every sprite. They also really like mating pairs to get more little dragons. Anything that can't they want to be able to.

[Dragon_Arbock]

I agree that debating this now is kinda futile. That ship sailed a long time ago.

 

But remember too that GoN originally couldn't breed. Remember the years of "why can't they? They should be able to!" suggestions? And everyone could have one if they could get their Legendaries to cooperate. So saying that making Prizes unbreedable from the start would have lessened the drama may not be true.

 

Heck, there's still sometimes a push for Papers to breed and they never were able to. And while rare aren't terribly so. People like being able to get every sprite. They also really like mating pairs to get more little dragons. Anything that can't they want to be able to.

I personally never complained about GoNs being unbreedable. I was just happy to have my CB and my frozen hatchling. It was at least something that everybody could have equally. If anything I have more of an issue now that they are breedable because I can only have 2-3 and have to trade to have anything past a gen two or three checker.

 

I personally do not need any of the other unbreedables to be breedable.

Honestly, the dragons I find most comparable to the Tinsels are the Vampires. They don't have lineages in the traditional sense, but they are also a dragon that can no longer be gotten CB. I have several from before they had lineages, but newer players cannot get them.

[Vhale]

Can we please just stop with the whole "prize owners have a printing press" bit? It's not like every egg they spit out is shiny if/when they do make one, trading is *not* as easy as some seem to think, and this whole attitude is why mine is essentially retired, thereby removing yet another from the gene pool. At this point I'd be more than happy to have the dratted things drop as blockers.

Amen. That and seeing people trying to force a petty nickname on them is pretty sad.

[meowxmeow]

Back in the early days, most people didn't differentiate between CB and bred dragons. I don't know when it started, but when I quit in 2011 people were simply trading for a gold or silver dragon. I think back then, people just wanted a prize dragon, net necessarily a CB. Now that we have an overabundance of bred prizes and with an increased emphasis on CBs overall, people want their own CB prize dragon. I know I certainly do.

[aussieJJDude]

Amen. That and seeing people trying to force a petty nickname on them is pretty sad.

Even though I don't agree with the nickname, I can see the point. CB prizes discontinuation is just that, drama... Some way to bring them back is going to lessen the drama to some extent, which is better now then if they continued to be discontinued.

[Dianacat777]

I agree that debating this now is kinda futile. That ship sailed a long time ago.

 

But remember too that GoN originally couldn't breed. Remember the years of "why can't they? They should be able to!" suggestions? And everyone could have one if they could get their Legendaries to cooperate. So saying that making Prizes unbreedable from the start would have lessened the drama may not be true.

 

Heck, there's still sometimes a push for Papers to breed and they never were able to. And while rare aren't terribly so. People like being able to get every sprite. They also really like mating pairs to get more little dragons. Anything that can't they want to be able to.

See, to me, 'people are asking for it' isn't always a good reason something should be done, specifically because people will always ask for the things they can't do - with breeding papers being a prime example of that. Sometimes it's downright a bad idea, because usually it's motivated by self-interest more than it is game balance, the spirit of Dragon Cave, or even sometimes 'making sense'.

 

That said, I think this is one of those cases where something definitely needs to be done.

 

Eh, lineages were already a thing in 2011, if my brain is working correctly. It hadn't quite solidified into the crux of the metagame it is today, but they were beginning. Still, at that point, they were shiny and new and people were willing to settle for whatever they got, be it a second gen or a messy seventh gen snatched off the AP. It's not unlike what happened to hollies. People began to fuss over lineages once there was enough of a supply that 'just managing to get one' was no longer an accomplishment.

Edited January 20, 2017 by Dianacat777

[Sazandora]

Thank you for all the answers for my question. Remember, I just asked it out of curiosity, not because I wanted it to happen.

 

But to be perfectly and brutally honest, I'm so tired of all this stupid moaning and crying over the Drama dragons that I sure as heck wouldn't mind if they were retired one day. Maybe I have a little anarchist inside me who would want to see the chaos that would unfold if the Dramas were retired.

I wouldn't mind it at all, but don't misunderstand me -- I am NOT asking for it to happen. They're not my top 10 favorite dragon breeds in the cave, but I don't hate them, either. I'm just indifferent.

 

The reason I want CB Dramas to return is simply to end the rich vs. poor-thing that's going on in the trade section, the whole thing where everyone and their mother and their neighbour's cat's cousin's uncle's dog's aunt asks for 2G Dramas in exchange for their own shinies. And only those people with dragon-shaped money printers can trade with those people. No one else.

 

I still think the store is the best option we have so far. Or maybe the thing where you'd get CB Dramas for completing Holiday events. But that's just my opinion, anyway.

[Jazeki]

The CB prizes are already "retired." If you mean making them all unbreedable, I wouldn't mind, but any remaining hatchies/eggs would go for huge amounts (like the frills). But if they ever did turn sterile, I would just release most of them. No need to have multiples anymore.

 

Edit: Typo.

Edit 2: "them" refers to all prizes, not just CB ones.

Edited January 20, 2017 by Jazeki

[Bison]

Can we please just stop with the whole "prize owners have a printing press" bit?  It's not like every egg they spit out is shiny if/when they do make one, trading is *not* as easy as some seem to think, and this whole attitude is why mine is essentially retired, thereby removing yet another from the gene pool.

This. Its getting really, really old.

 

Perhaps if people weren't constantly villainizing people who won a raffle, which was completely out of their control, Prize owners wouldn't have to be so restrictive on who they trade with. The entitlement and constant insult slinging in this thread is ridiculous. Its making me rethink what I'll do with my Prize in the future.

 

There are many factors that go into how difficult, frustrating, and weird trading and trading values are. This includes the way DC is structured, how trading is handled, the community's desires, release schedules/methods, how close certain people are to reaching every in-game goal they have, the amount/rarity of breeds.... the list just goes on and on. So many little factors go into influencing an economy, even in a game. Contrary to popular belief, Prize owners are not demons and we are absolutely not solely responsible for the state the trading economy is in. Especially later winners who fell into the Prize market after prices were already established to be in "crazy value town". If you want to point fingers, blame those who will offer or pay those ridiculous over the top prices. Repeatedly insulting people who won something entirely at random says a whole lot.... and not one bit of it is good.

 

Instead of being incredibly rude, entitled, and making extremely nasty assumptions about how everyone who won a random raffle prize is an evil greedy hoarder bleeding traders dry, perhaps people should try doing literally anything else. Until TJ acts on CB Prizes in some way, IF he ever does, the current CBs are all the community has to get G2s. Being so publicly nasty about the only people who can provide those G2s is probably not the wisest move... If this keeps ramping up the way it has been since this thread started, I guarantee there will be even more "swaps only" trades and downright retired Prizes.

[Fiona]

CB owners have often complained about how seldom their shiny prizes produce shiny eggs, or even any eggs.

 

I have long felt that the perceived price of 2nd gen prizes is due in part from people offering an arm, leg and their firstborn and not getting a trade. The thing is, if there are no 2nd gen prizes bred available to trade then it doesn't matter what they offer, they aren't going to find a trade. It's really the desire for 2nd gens that is controlling the trade market, not the owners of CB prizes.

 

I totally understand why the owners of the few CB prizes out there are frustrated though.

Edited January 20, 2017 by Fiona BlueFire

[maylin]

Yeah, I'm also not liking how people are talking about CB prize owners either and I don't even own a CB prize! :/

 

Yall make it seem like its so easy to get a prize to breed another prize, unless you are breeding it to a Holiday dragon, it is not as easy as a lot of you seem to think it is.

 

Really what we need to balance out the trading economy is more rare dragons so that there are more dragons people want to trade their own rares for. I also think the Holly contests help a lot too with the trading economy. Lineages also help the trading economy. Really there are ways to get things, you just have to be active in the community and see what people want.

Edited January 20, 2017 by maylin

[olympe]

It would still be "lots of rares / the rarest of the rare for priceless 2nd gen". It's a matter of supply and demand. Demand for shiny things, especially if they're hard to get, will always be high. More so if the sprite is gorgeous. Supply, however, is very, very low due to the low number of CBs and their often bad breeding success. Result: High prices. Adding a new kind of currency (apart from CB golds and maybe neglecteds) won't change the fact that the prices are high.

[Dragon_Arbock]

Yall make it seem like its so easy to get a prize to breed another prize, unless you are breeding it to a Holiday dragon, it is not as easy as a lot of you seem to think it is.

Well, it's certainly easier than this. I breed prizes to the AP all the time. This is still better than this.

[Pokemonfan13]

I agree with Fi and Olympe. It's the users who WANT a CB prize in the market who are creating the high prices and the fixation on 2g prizes in the trading market. Not everyone who are saying that the current nature of prizes has messed up the trading system is blaming the prize owners. I think most of us are blaming the inherent nature of the system.

[Ripan]

Well, it's certainly easier than this. I breed prizes to the AP all the time. This is still better than this.

The latest release of Prizes (those born in February 2015) produced very few Prize offspring in the first year after release. It's not until this past year (2016) that they've started to produce shiny offspring at a rate like "somewhat uncommon".

[maylin]

It would still be "lots of rares / the rarest of the rare for priceless 2nd gen". It's a matter of supply and demand. Demand for shiny things, especially if they're hard to get, will always be high. More so if the sprite is gorgeous. Supply, however, is very, very low due to the low number of CBs and their often bad breeding success. Result: High prices. Adding a new kind of currency (apart from CB golds and maybe neglecteds) won't change the fact that the prices are high.

I was thinking more so then you would have a little bit higher chance of getting a rare to trade for a 2gen or a gold instead of it being just golds people want to trade for.

[Jazeki]

The latest release of Prizes (those born in February 2015) produced very few Prize offspring in the first year after release. It's not until this past year (2016) that they've started to produce shiny offspring at a rate like "somewhat uncommon".

Is this because they're poor breeders or because they weren't bred as frequently?

 

I think everyone's breeding experience is different. Of course you'll never breed enough 2nd gen prizes to meet the demand and holidays and uncommons are more likely to produce prizes, but in the scheme of things there are lots of prizes floating around DC at any given time--just not CB or 2nd gen ones (the ones that are most desirable).

Edited January 20, 2017 by Jazeki

[Fuzzbucket]

I agree with Fi and Olympe.  It's the users who WANT a CB prize in the market who are creating the high prices and the fixation on 2g prizes in the trading market.  Not everyone who are saying that the current nature of prizes has messed up the trading system is blaming the prize owners.  I think most of us are blaming the inherent nature of the system.

This. The system as related to prize CBs is borked. It was from the minute so few prizes were offered in the raffle, and has got steadily worse.

Edited January 20, 2017 by fuzzbucket

[Ripan]

Is this because they're poor breeders or because they weren't bred as frequently?

 

I think everyone's breeding experience is different. Of course you'll never breed enough 2nd gen prizes to meet the demand and holidays and uncommons are more likely to produce prizes, but in the scheme of things there are lots of prizes floating around DC at at any given time--just not CB or 2nd gen ones (the ones that are most desirable).

I can't speak for everyone's breeding habits and results, but the impression I got from discussions in the thread guide for CB Prize owners was that several of the newest Prizes were producing offspring very poorly within their first year. Plenty who got lots of refusals, no produce, and prize-kin only results. People were getting quite frustrated about it.

Bad luck might have played in a fair bit as well.

 

[Vhale]

Breeding goes through ratio waves. Prizes are intensely overbred. And some commons are overly common. So trying to get a prize out of a specific common in some cases is probably harder than winning one in the first place.

 

What's also happened is people stocked up on pairs that could breed 3 and 4g prizes. And used those as "printing presses" back when they could demand metals. Now, they are common enough they aren't trading for as much. So there is more resentment as one of the rarity tiers has been removed by giving people the very 2gs they were asking for.

 

What DC needs, is to facilitate trading IE Eggs around the world. People use prizes partly because it's easy to use a single breed as a measure. Trading NEEDs a currency and prizes filled the vaccuum for as long as it was somewhat reasonable. The store is step 1 to providing that currency, now that they can't cut it anymore. Imo step 2 is improvements to the trading system a la an interface. But that's another suggestion.

[Bison]

I agree with Fi and Olympe.  It's the users who WANT a CB prize in the market who are creating the high prices and the fixation on 2g prizes in the trading market.  Not everyone who are saying that the current nature of prizes has messed up the trading system is blaming the prize owners.  I think most of us are blaming the inherent nature of the system.

Yeah, the desperation is very obvious with a lot of people and leads to crazier and crazier offers. There's no way that supply can keep up with the demand. It seems like G2 Prizes are an "end game" goal for a lot of people so by the time some look to trade they have a lot to offer and/or don't care too much what it takes. Add in Prize owners being swarmed/harassed about eggs/slots, bad trading experiences, plus poorly breeding dragons and its just a terrible combination. We really need more CBs somehow to help deal with it.

 

But even if many people are being perfectly nice, there are still many other people in this thread and others that keep going on and on about Prize winners' "printing presses", "rich vs poor", how dare Prize owners want swaps, implying (or downright stating) all Prize owners bleed traders dry, how greedy we are, etc etc. Its rude, entitled, and childish. I'm sick of biting my tongue about it. There are ways to show frustration and discuss the situation without resorting to schoolyard name-calling and making nasty assumptions about hundreds of fellow players who did nothing "wrong" but win a raffle. Its left an even worse taste about trading and the DC community in my mouth. I hope we get more CBs out there somehow just so it stops. I haven't seen it anywhere near this bad since the last raffle.

 

 

Anyways, another thing about G2s/breeding/eggs is how people value G2s by the non-Prize parent. Holiday G2 shinies are very unpopular and "worth less" because they're easier to breed. So the community is just constantly shooting itself in the foot. The most-likely-to-get-shinies method of breeding is discouraged so some owners who might otherwise have a Prize that produces many G2 shinies instead have a poor breeder. Which means there's even less G2 Prizes in circulation than there could be and that doesn't help the supply/demand problem at all.

 

Of course not everyone wants to breed their Prize to Holiday mates outside of holiday breeding weeks but those that do could be discouraged because of the community. I don't know if people have started to get over the aversion to Holiday mates or not but that's what I was told when I won and my personal experience backs it up.

 

 

I also agree with Vhale. We need a much better system for trading on DC. The way it works now is frustrating and makes it hard to find anything you'd be interested in. Asking for "offers" nets either absolutely nothing or super messy junk so personally, I just default to swaps because its so much less frustrating. If there's a suggestion for an actual trading system I'd love to support it.

[Fiona]

There was a thread awhile ago, but it wasn't getting much traction with the complications of specifying what you're looking for. It's old enough now you could probably start a new thread. If you can think of a system that would work it'd be great.

[silver_tiger]

I hope we get more CBs out there somehow just so it stops. I haven't seen it anywhere near this bad since the last raffle.

 

 

Anyways, another thing about G2s/breeding/eggs is how people value G2s by the non-Prize parent. Holiday G2 shinies are very unpopular and "worth less" because they're easier to breed. So the community is just constantly shooting itself in the foot. The most-likely-to-get-shinies method of breeding is discouraged so some owners who might otherwise have a Prize that produces many G2 shinies instead have a poor breeder. Which means there's even less G2 Prizes in circulation than there could be and that doesn't help the supply/demand problem at all.

It's been, what? Two years now with no news one way or the other about the raffles or if we're ever going to get more CB Shimmerscales/Tinsels? It's probably specifically boiling back up now because Christmas just ended, which is probably clear but I felt it was worth saying. Idk. I'm not saying the commenters here are right or wrong, I just wanted to remark that I really hope we get some fresh CBs somehow and some way, or at the very least an announcement about it one day...

 

Anyway, I had no idea that Holidays were undesirable. If I owned one I'd breed it with a Holiday purely *because* if I get an egg from them at all it's guaranteed to be a Tinsel/Shimmerscale. I can see the downsides too, but...oh well. It just surprised me to hear that I guess.

 

(I'm still pf the opinion that I want a CB of every type and color just to have CBs on my scroll...)

[aussieJJDude]

I thought holiday lineages were just as valuable as other lineages. However, I don't like to collect them as future players don't have the means on continuing them on. However, with the introduction of more CB's, more lineages can be easily created. A lot more choice.

[Bison]

It's been, what? Two years now with no news one way or the other about the raffles or if we're ever going to get more CB Shimmerscales/Tinsels? It's probably specifically boiling back up now because Christmas just ended, which is probably clear but I felt it was worth saying. Idk. I'm not saying the commenters here are right or wrong, I just wanted to remark that I really hope we get some fresh CBs somehow and some way, or at the very least an announcement about it one day...

 

Anyway, I had no idea that Holidays were undesirable. If I owned one I'd breed it with a Holiday purely *because* if I get an egg from them at all it's guaranteed to be a Tinsel/Shimmerscale. I can see the downsides too, but...oh well. It just surprised me to hear that I guess.

 

(I'm still pf the opinion that I want a CB of every type and color just to have CBs on my scroll...)

That's true. Christmas passing by without raffles, CBs being passed out in another way, or TJ saying anything definitely doesn't help. But its still very frustrating. If it continues to get worse we might as well bring back raffles because the toxicity and nastiness is already here. Raffles are still the last resort for me though.

 

I don't know how true it is, or even if its accurate (as I was never part of the community or trading before I won), but its what I was told. I've never had anyone request or at all show interest in having a Holiday mate outside of actual Holiday Prizekin. I assume what Aussie said, below, is the reasoning behind it. Plus Holiday lineages are harder to continue, even on your own scroll, because of the limited CBs unless you use Halloweens.

 

However, I don't like to collect them as future players don't have the means on continuing them on.

 

But -shrug- who knows! Its impossible for me to keep up with the trading market so I largely just ignore it.