ANSWERED:bring back cb prizes

[Fuzzbucket]

Yeah, the desperation is very obvious with a lot of people and leads to crazier and crazier offers. There's no way that supply can keep up with the demand. It seems like G2 Prizes are an "end game" goal for a lot of people so by the time some look to trade they have a lot to offer and/or don't care too much what it takes. Add in Prize owners being swarmed/harassed about eggs/slots, bad trading experiences, plus poorly breeding dragons and its just a terrible combination. We really need more CBs somehow to help deal with it.

 

The other thing - which WOULD go away if the prize element were removed - is the quite substantial number of players whose aim is to collect a 2 gen from EVERY PRIZE SHINY. They will offer a bundle to achieve that. Those of us who just want a couple for lineages are outbid all over. If they were in the store - or in cave - that would surely stop. You don't see anyone wanting an avatar from every GoN. (Do you ? )

[olympe]

But even if many people are being perfectly nice, there are still many other people in this thread and others that keep going on and on about Prize winners' "printing presses", "rich vs poor", how dare Prize owners want swaps, implying (or downright stating) all Prize owners bleed traders dry, how greedy we are, etc etc. Its rude, entitled, and childish. I'm sick of biting my tongue about it. There are ways to show frustration and discuss the situation without resorting to schoolyard name-calling and making nasty assumptions about hundreds of fellow players who did nothing "wrong" but win a raffle. Its left an even worse taste about trading and the DC community in my mouth. I hope we get more CBs out there somehow just so it stops. I haven't seen it anywhere near this bad since the last raffle.

Well, I feel that I have to say something about this, since, on the one hand, I used many of these terms in the past to explain the situation as I see it, yet, on the other hand, never blamed any of the prize owners or prize owners as a group for it.

• Fact is that there are very few CB Prize owners compared to the number of players overall.
• Fact is that this has an effect on the trading aspect of the game: Due to high demand and low supply, there are insane offers for 2nd gen Prizes.
• Fact is that these insane offers lead to the impression that CB Prize owners get everything they want by breeding something they got through sheer dumb luck. They may choose not to, but in theory, they do have those "money printing presses", whether they make use of them or not. I know that not all owners do. Which, in turn, leads to a division of players into "rich" CB Prize winners and "poor" losers. That not every "loser" is a poor one if they are lucky enough to have good CB rare catching abilities is a different matter, but since these not-so-poor "losers" now have a reason to stalk the cave for CB rares even more than before (and trade them for 2nd gen Prizes instead of anything else), the competition for those rares is worse than it used to be, and it's even harder to trade upward to get one of those. Which is a 2nd nasty effect of Prizes on the game experience as a whole.
• Fact is that 2nd gen Prize swaps, although comfortable for CB Prize owner, do increase the perceived difference between "rich winners" and "poor losers". Because, unless you happen to be one of the "winners", you won't ever be able to use any of those trades. Which makes it look like there's an elite that prefers to trade exclusively within their own circle. Of course, the demand for 2nd gens outside said circle is still high, but the supply gets even lower than without the many 2nd gen Prize swaps there are.
• Fact is that Prize owners are free to do with their dragons as they please.
• Fact is that the situation, as it is, is unsatisfactory for most players, be they CB Prize owners or not. Still, neither group nor an individual player is to blame for this. The problem is the situation we have.
• Fact is that we're trying to change the current situation. Not the behavior of any one player or group of players. In my eyes, the exclusiveness of CB Prizes is the root of the problem, so my suggestions in this thread try to change that.

If you find that view rude, entitled, and childish, then I'm afraid I'm personally guilty of all three. Edited January 21, 2017 by olympe

[VixenDra]

The latest release of Prizes (those born in February 2015) produced very few Prize offspring in the first year after release. It's not until this past year (2016) that they've started to produce shiny offspring at a rate like "somewhat uncommon".

I'm wondering if CB Prizes breed better than they used to because now anything above 3g is considered valueless while it used to have quite a value before... so less higher gens are even bred, so CBs and 2gs have more 'room in the ratios' for their offspring. At least it seems so to me?

Also, their poor breeding of BB Prizes is also tied to the breed the mate is supposed to be... if sb tried to breed a Prize from an Antarean mate they'll have much less chance of success than if they tried for a White mate - I base it on how Common x Common almost always breed the older breed's eggs... 2g+s Mostly have the actually working breeds as mates, so they breed Prizes more successfully than a Cb bred to the 'wrong' breeds (so another problem - the breeding mechanics). E.g. from the Trio mates the progeny's ratio seems to be in favour of Prizes - Trio breeds are both older and rare(They ARE rare I bet, they breed worse than Coppers... and only a bit better than Silvers - if not like them...).

 

 

Well on one hand we can't blame CB Prize owners for the trading but on the other they do make use of the insane offers instead of asking for sth more obtainable from time to time - very few do that, vast majority of 2g offers IS asking for swaps and CB ultra rares... Well, on one hand they can on the other they do take active part in the narrowing down the trading(not all but vast majority of those even taking part in trading it seems).

Still, it's also true the 2g askers do most of harm here... and sb who offers a CB ND just won't take a pretty 3g Prize. Nope. a 2g, period.

But the truth is both sides has led to this... ^^; It takes two to tango

 

 

As for the issue of little to no demand for Holidaykin 2gens, if CBs were obtainable aside to the first release day/3days instead of once in a lifetime, that WOULD change drastically. And if the limit on the limited was at least rised significantly, that would change even better for the non-Halloween Holidays.

Because 2g Prizes from Holidays are valued kind of like 3gens on non-Holidays or even worse... And a 3gen seems to have nearly no value, while a non-holday kin 3g still carries some value in trading but not that much - nearly only to those who can't dream of a 2g.

 

You can tell, 2gens of my bf both from the same CB Prize, Mistletoe mate: https://dragcave.net/progeny/9Uhw8 Magma Mate: https://dragcave.net/progeny/8yCAq (also notice the high Prize to Magma ratio BTW) why the progenies are so different? (And also, as a sidenote, notice the percentage of continuation in general... for the 1st paragraph I wrote - even 2gens are not that much bred further anymore, despite they're neat...) Because if he wants to trade he'd breed the Mistletoe line only if the Magma line fails, because he found out people having extremelly little interest for the Mistletoe line(and notice he owns 1 of just 2 Mistletoe kin of that CB Prize - which should increase the line's value, but nope)... AND he was left with 3 2gens from the Mistletoe on his scroll... While the Magmas were all going sooner or later before it was too late to trade them away.

I bet it's not as much the easyness of getting a Prize from Holidays, it's much more about limits on CBs - both in number(in case of non-Halloween) AND, most of all, in no availability of CBs anymore... And in case of a refusal you'll never have a mate, if you happened to not have a good catch (e.g. he's got just one Desipis, a female, he traded for a Desipis line Prize and he got a refusal, he never traded for a Holidaykin again)

At least that's how it looks like...

 

 

I also agree raffles is the last resort and if nothing else is to be implemented(but why TJ??? Can't you see the issues?)... Better raffles than no new CB Prizes at all. Still, only as the last resort... The Store is such a great and widely supported idea with the regular systematic gameplay lets a player get a CB Prize, and then next and next, steadily as time passes, provided they do play the game...

Edited January 21, 2017 by VixenDra

[Jazeki]

That's true. Christmas passing by without raffles, CBs being passed out in another way, or TJ saying anything definitely doesn't help. But its still very frustrating. If it continues to get worse we might as well bring back raffles because the toxicity and nastiness is already here. Raffles are still the last resort for me though.

 

I don't know how true it is, or even if its accurate (as I was never part of the community or trading before I won), but its what I was told. I've never had anyone request or at all show interest in having a Holiday mate outside of actual Holiday Prizekin. I assume what Aussie said, below, is the reasoning behind it. Plus Holiday lineages are harder to continue, even on your own scroll, because of the limited CBs unless you use Halloweens.

 

 

 

From an outside perspective, prize/holiday lines are harder to trade. I have a 2nd gen bronze shimmer whose dad is an aegis. I asked for this pairing because it was pretty and because I knew I wouldn't have to wait to get a shiny if the breeding was successful. Her babies generally take longer to trade, but I can now try pairing her with all my 2nd gen aegises, too.

 

I would trade for 2nd gen prizes from holidays, but I never have anything to offer when I do see trades for them--same as all the other 2nd gen prizes.

 

I think that the introduction of the improved fertility can really help holiday prize lines because it can lessen the chance of refusal.

[Bison]

Well, I feel that I have to say something about this, since, on the one hand, I used many of these terms in the past to explain the situation as I see it, yet, on the other hand, never blamed any of the prize owners or prize owners as a group for it.

You're taking my post too personally, olympe. You never crossed my radar and I've agreed with many, though not all, of your posts even if I haven't said so in the thread.

 

 

But perhaps since it stood out to you and you saw it as targeting you, you should use kinder words when talking about the hundreds of players who had no control over winning a raffle. There are many ways to get across those same ideas without using any of the phrases or making any of the assumptions I mentioned.

[VixenDra]

But perhaps [...] you should use kinder words when talking about the hundreds of players who had no control over winning a raffle. There are many ways to get across those same ideas without using any of the phrases or making any of the assumptions I mentioned.

Just on a sidenote, not everyone is native to English, and some are native to much more straightforward languages ^^;

E.g. I have serious trouble sounding ahh so kind in English writing... I may even curse without meaning to be rude (in the 'damn it, it's hard/it happens' type I think)^^; And in general I can't consciously manipulate a language, and especially a foreign one like English is to me^^;

You may just be expecting too much, at least in part of the cases, you know...

Edited January 21, 2017 by VixenDra

[Fuzzbucket]

You're taking my post too personally, olympe. You never crossed my radar and I've agreed with many, though not all, of your posts even if I haven't said so in the thread.

 

 

But perhaps since it stood out to you and you saw it as targeting you, you should use kinder words when talking about the hundreds of players who had no control over winning a raffle. There are many ways to get across those same ideas without using any of the phrases or making any of the assumptions I mentioned.

WELL - English IS my first language, and I have never used ANY of those words (I lie: I have used rich vs poor - but that IS the state of affairs here) but I have thought the thoughts at times - I believe totally justifiably - and I felt guilty when that post was made.

 

Players had no control sure. But some of them REALLY used their chance win to screw others over with their demands. Not many - but some. AND were offensive about it.

[Bigbite]

WELL - English IS my first language, and I have never used ANY of those words (I lie: I have used rich vs poor - but that IS the state of affairs here) but I have thought the thoughts at times - I believe totally justifiably - and I felt guilty when that post was made.

 

Players had no control sure. But some of them REALLY used their chance win to screw others over with their demands. Not many - but some. AND were offensive about it.

Well said Fuzzy.

[Robot Chimera]

WELL - English IS my first language, and I have never used ANY of those words (I lie: I have used rich vs poor - but that IS the state of affairs here) but I have thought the thoughts at times - I believe totally justifiably - and I felt guilty when that post was made.

 

Players had no control sure. But some of them REALLY used their chance win to screw others over with their demands. Not many - but some. AND were offensive about it.

SOME of them did.

Quite a lot of them stopped caring.

It's extremely rude of you to assume that "prize owners are all screwing people over for 2Gs!". Some of them do, but most of the prize owners I know just trade for whatever makes them happy at the moment. I know one of them that even trades for CB metals just to gift to users without any CB metals.

 

Owning a prize does not, and will not, make you "Greedy and selfish". Prizes do not always produce 2Gs. The issue comes from not enough Prizes to make enough 2Gs for the market. Prize owners do not have a choice. They can't suddenly produce enough 2Gs to satisfy the market, and a lot of them are just inactive and not even caring about DC anymore. Does that make them greedy and selfish for not coming online to breed their Prize dragon every week so more 2Gs exist?

 

There are some bad prize owners, yes, (I know one of them who started a fight over spriters getting alts specifically because they couldn't have one, yet saw no problem with CB prizes). But I have seen way too much bashing on prize owners in this thread because they got lucky, and it's honestly disappointing to see how the nice prize owners are getting grouped with the few who are jerks.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Robot Chimera

[Fuzzbucket]

SOME of them did.

Quite a lot of them stopped caring.

It's extremely rude of you to assume that "prize owners are all screwing people over for 2Gs!". Some of them do, but most of the prize owners I know just trade for whatever makes them happy at the moment. I know one of them that even trades for CB metals just to gift to users without any CB metals.

You did see - and even quote - the word some. Even the sentence: Not many - but some. And you have carefully suggested that I used the word "all" which I very much did NOT. I don't assume anything - I watched it happen. So did you, it seems - you are saying so yourself. I need say no more.

 

And absolutely some prize owners are generous gems - that's how come I have a 2nd gen - a gift out of the blue.

Edited January 21, 2017 by fuzzbucket

[Fiona]

You guys do realize that this discussion is devolving into a pointless argument over whether or not someone thinks all CB Prize owners are jerks, right? Nuff said.

 

The point of this thread is that most people want CB Prizes to be available again. There is considerably debate over how we think the best method would be but that people want it seems indisputable.

[maylin]

I just want to say no mater what someone is asking for in a trade for their 2gen they are NOT screwing anyone over. They are asking for what they want, its up to the other person if they want to offer on the trade.

 

It's really not nice to say prize owners are bad for asking for golds or anything else they want in trade for their 2gens. And only the ones who ask for lesser things are the only ''Good prize owners'' I imagine people saying these kinda things make all CB prize owners feel not good at all :/

 

I image this kinda talk probably made a lot of prize winners quit playing the game or stopped communicating with other players in the forums as it makes it not fun to play when people are saying these kinda things about a group of players you are apart of.

[Fuzzbucket]

You guys do realize that this discussion is devolving into a pointless argument over whether or not someone thinks all CB Prize owners are jerks, right? Nuff said.

 

The point of this thread is that most people want CB Prizes to be available again. There is considerably debate over how we think the best method would be but that people want it seems indisputable.

Thanks Fi. I just object to being so spectacularly misquoted.

 

You're right. We need a way to get CBs.

[Fiona]

Here's a unique and probably fatally flawed idea: TJ sets up a random thingy that periodically dumps a (or several) CB Prizes to the AP. No raffles, No events, no store. No debates on who or how or codes or emails. Just "POP" - Prize in the AP!

 

[Paradisiske]

maybe if it flooded the ap for a couple hours and a person could only pick up two eggs from each dump.

[Fuzzbucket]

Here's a unique and probably fatally flawed idea: TJ sets up a random thingy that periodically dumps a (or several) CB Prizes to the AP. No raffles, No events, no store. No debates on who or how or codes or emails. Just "POP" - Prize in the AP!

Sounds good (I still prefer the store) but sure. Not too infrequent, and a nice lot when it happens....

 

And THESE would have to be tradeable, I feel (unlike the store ones.)

[silver_tiger]

Here's a unique and probably fatally flawed idea: TJ sets up a random thingy that periodically dumps a (or several) CB Prizes to the AP. No raffles, No events, no store. No debates on who or how or codes or emails. Just "POP" - Prize in the AP!

Iiiii...actually like that idea, as long as they're tradable. Will some people keep every one they get? Of course. That's the nature of this game. But eventually, sooner or later, people will start trading them around. Sooner or later, people will get one. And that's all I want, no matter how long it takes.

[Fiona]

Yeah, they'd have to be tradeable. I wasn't thinking "a big lot" at once but however many TJ was willing to send out in a week's time scattered randomly through the week. I dunno, maybe that makes it too hard? You'd have to be on the AP a lot probably. What do you think?

[Dragon_Arbock]

Randomly generating them in the AP could be fun, though I'm sure someone will find a way to complain. Question would be how many how often. I know 'randomly' might make the 'how often' part moot, but since there is no true random it would have to be some fancy algorithm.

[Fuzzbucket]

maybe if it flooded the ap for a couple hours and a person could only pick up two eggs from each dump.

A limit of 2 per dump sounds good.

[Robot Chimera]

Dropping them in the AP would be exactly the same as dropping them in the cave - the difference is that it's the AP, not the cave, and you can see images. So they'd be the "CB Golds of the AP"., unless you went with the "cave blocker" option, which most people seem to dislike.

 

And yes, people can use scripts to catch things off the AP too.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Robot Chimera

[Paradisiske]

Dropping them in the AP would be exactly the same as dropping them in the cave - the difference is that it's the AP, not the cave, and you can see images. So they'd be the "CB Golds of the AP"., unless you went with the "cave blocker" option, which most people seem to dislike.

 

And yes, people can use scripts to catch things off the AP too.

thats why there would be a limit of two per dump that a person can catch

[Fuzzbucket]

Scripters will script. That's life.

 

And there WOULD also be bred ones in the AP, so that would make it interesting ! (Yes there would. I dump them there quite often. In fact it's about time I did it again.)

[Jazeki]

I'd be okay with random AP spawns. I'd probably never catch them, but that'd be okay.

[Predat0rs]

On Facebook, TJ gave away a free 2nd Gen Holly. On the Forums here, he has given away 2nd Gen Thuweds in the Thuwed thread. While I'm not saying it's a permanent solution, but maybe he could throw XX CB Prizes into the Departures thread every so often, etc. Maybe he can have them work like Christmas/Valentine Holidays where you can only have 2 Caveborns (or 1, so XX amount of people could grab versus just half of whatever he throws in there).

 

I'm not saying it would be a permanent solution, but it COULD work honestly...