2015-05-21 - Dragon Cave's 9th Birthday

[stagazer_7]

Ok, now I've seen all the adults (before a couple were still hatchies ^^) and my faves hands down are the male Hooktalon and female Magelight, they're awesome. I'm especially excited for the new Pygmies - can't wait for some awesome Pumpkin x Magelight lineages. <3

 

BTW we really need a Drake and a Two-headed Holiday dragon *wink* *wink*

[DragonNighthowler]

I'm sure I'll get venomous glares for bringing this up, but I do wonder if the whole "female lashes out violently at the males" trait would be given the greenlight if it the sexes were switched. It doesn't bother me, just makes me raise an eyebrow in thought. I like their head horn/crests.

That is one of the part that also called my attention. Forgive me if I'm mistaken but it seems like, as with hellfires, matriarchal societies can only work where females are vicious. Most matriarchal societies that come to my mind are actually quiet cooperative, not only in insects (bees, ants, wasps...), but in mammals too (suricats, ELEPHANTS). I wrote elephants in large letters because the matriarch is a wise, old female who guides and teaches the group.

 

I'm not against having dragons which are nasty. We have quiet a few species which are nasty themselves, such as spiders and praying mantises. But I'd like to see a matriarchal societie where females didn't have to display high aggression to make it seem as if they're in charge.

 

The sprites are awesome.

[pinkgothic]

I quite like the male Hooktalon and the female Magelight Pygmy.

 

Hooktalons are basically the Baryonyx of the dragon world. Heck yeah.

 

Or maybe a bit of Therizinosaurus? Can't decide. Number of hueg talons are totally Baryonyx; size of hueg talons more Therizinosaurus-y. Either way: Baws.

[Leidarendi]

Nice adults! I'll never remember their breed names, though. I guess gone are the days of "gray", "black", and "green".

[Esdren]

I'll admit, I hate the pygmies now. I don't like wyverns in the first place and their head is weird, the horns are shaped oddly and the beak is too avian. The two-heads? Male looks great, the female looks awkward, her stomach is hard to make out with her legs, and it makes her look splayed or box-shaped. The drakes are fine, though.

 

So yeah, I think that means I'm half severely disappointed because I really don't like half the sprites. I'm really annoyed about the pygmies, because the hatchlings are great. The adults ruined it.

That's a bit harsh.

Sprites aren't sprung from nothing, spriters work hard making them, we have to respect that. I personally think the sprites look great. I can understand if you don't find them to your tastes, but let's try to keep criticism passive and the environment peaceful. To bash someone's art is the same as bashing the artist.

[MedievalMystic]

The Greater Spotted is my favorite. Awesome dragon, gorgeous colors, wicked antlers, lovely pattern on the body. Pure love right there. I'd really like to see more color patterns on future dragons. That was a great idea, imo.

 

I love the Pygmy as well, they're just so damn cute, especially the male.

 

The Hooktalon, not so much. I like the dragon, I don't like the color. The deep scarlet on the upper body is stunning...then, unfortunately for me, there's that pepto bismol(at least on my screen) colored underbelly...I've never been a fan of red and pink to begin with. Had the belly been black, or golden, or white, gray, blue or anything but that weird pink, they'd be pure win.

 

That being said, I'm still collecting them all.

 

Thanks again TJ and the awesome artists.

Edited May 24, 2015 by MedievalMystic

[BlindWolf]

That's a bit harsh.

Sprites aren't sprung from nothing, spriters work hard making them, we have to respect that. I personally think the sprites look great. I can understand if you don't find them to your tastes, but let's try to keep criticism passive and the environment peaceful. To bash someone's art is the same as bashing the artist.

I didn't make any mention of the spriters or disparage the EFFORT they put in, and it wasn't my intention. But I don't like half of the sprites in general, or the design of the adult pygmies. If you'd like, I can preface that 'ruined' by saying that it's for me, or in my opinion, since that's always the case with subjective designs. Nothing I said about the pygmies can even be construed as being an insult to the quality of it, just a statement of my subjective hate for the design. I may be blunt, but I wasn't being insulting.

 

As for my other complaint, about the design of the female two-headed, I didn't devote as many words to it and you're free to disagree, but her stomach looks really weird to me and makes determining the actual shape of the dragon difficult. It sort of blends into her leg and the shadows make it seem like the stomach paunch (?) only follows her left neck instead of being the undercarriage of the entire dragon. Like I said, you can disagree about that, but that's how it looks to me.

[Nalyua]

I'll admit, I hate the pygmies now. I don't like wyverns in the first place and their head is weird, the horns are shaped oddly and the beak is too avian. The two-heads? Male looks great, the female looks awkward, her stomach is hard to make out with her legs, and it makes her look splayed or box-shaped. The drakes are fine, though.

 

So yeah, I think that means I'm half severely disappointed because I really don't like half the sprites. I'm really annoyed about the pygmies, because the hatchlings are great. The adults ruined it.

I understand that not everyone likes every single thing.

 

 

If you think some things are not to your liking and that you have ideas how to improve something that is fine.

 

 

But the artists put a lot of work in them and just saying you hate it is kinda unfair because the artists made them to make this game more interesting for everyone.

 

 

 

[stagazer_7]

That is one of the part that also called my attention. Forgive me if I'm mistaken but it seems like, as with hellfires, matriarchal societies can only work where females are vicious. Most matriarchal societies that come to my mind are actually quiet cooperative, not only in insects (bees, ants, wasps...), but in mammals too (suricats, ELEPHANTS). I wrote elephants in large letters because the matriarch is a wise, old female who guides and teaches the group.

 

I'm not against having dragons which are nasty. We have quiet a few species which are nasty themselves, such as spiders and praying mantises. But I'd like to see a matriarchal societie where females didn't have to display high aggression to make it seem as if they're in charge.

 

The sprites are awesome.

Maybe they're more like spotted hyenas? :3

 

Has there been any additional info/art of the new dragons released yet?

Edited May 24, 2015 by stagazer_7

[BlindWolf]

I understand that not everyone likes every single thing.

 

 

If you think some things are not to your liking and that you have ideas how to improve something that is fine.

 

 

But the artists put a lot of work in them and just saying you hate it is kinda unfair because the artists made them to make this game more interesting for everyone.

I'm afraid I can't agree with this at all. We both agree people have a right to their opinion, correct? Well, if I hate something, I should be able to say it. Not to throw a big fit about it, but to state it as I did. Designs are subjective, and not everyone will like them. As I've stressed multiple times, I neither disparaged the artists or their effort, and conflating a dislike with the product with a dislike for a person or a disregard for the work aspect is a mistake. Those would be three very different statements.

[MedievalMystic]

Well, if I hate something, I should be able to say it.

 

I agree.

 

Now that I'm looking at the Hooktalon a little closer, I must say, I don't like the female. At all. To me, it looks like it was meant to be a dragon with one head that somehow was born with a parasitic twin head attached and that head is dead, just flopping there. Honestly, it looks like it doesn't belong there and needs to be amputated. It's like one side of the body is alive, the other dead. Yeah, not a big fan. :/

Edited May 24, 2015 by MedievalMystic

[Nalyua]

I'm afraid I can't agree with this at all. We both agree people have a right to their opinion, correct? Well, if I hate something, I should be able to say it. Not to throw a big fit about it, but to state it as I did. Designs are subjective, and not everyone will like them. As I've stressed multiple times, I neither disparaged the artists or their effort, and conflating a dislike with the product with a dislike for a person or a disregard for the work aspect is a mistake. Those would be three very different statements.

This is more about the way you worded it for me.

 

Like I said it's never gonna be perfect for everyone. But given the fact that the spriters put a lot of work and effort into making something for us, without being paid, I think just saying "I hate it" is really rude in my books.

 

Wording it like "The colour is too bright for me" or "To me the pose looks a bit off because XY" is something I can understand because it expresses your opinion but also gives some constructive insight to work with.

 

I'm a writer and I put my work out there too, and I can say as an artist I really feel bad if I only get "I hate it" without any idea what may have gone wrong in the reader's mind, if this is just their taste, if I actually made a mistake I was not aware of.

 

Especially if I wrote the piece in question as an answer to a request and solely to entertain the requesting guys.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Nalyua

[silver_tiger]

Lol whoops I just misclicked on a magelight when I was trying to snap up some cave cloggers.

 

...which is to say, I think they're easier to get than people think. I didn't grab it right away, either.

 

Oh yes I meant to say, I really love the pygmy adults especially, but all the adults look lovely. The pose of the male pygmy is especially pretty.

Edited May 24, 2015 by silver_chan

[Nerei]

I think some of you have been a bit vicious with your opinions of these dragons. Even if you absolutely despise them, I'd think it was better if you at least attempted to phrase it a little more delicately. Can you imagine the type of unhappy environment you're probably creating for the hardworking artists? I know that I would be more than slightly hurt if this is how you were talking about dragons that I had made. Critiques would be fine, I'd be okay if you were saying you didn't like them, but it's more like you're trying to bash the sprite.

 

I don't really like two-headeds in general, but I have to admit that the Hooktalons are very nice. The bellies do seem to hang the tinies bit, but why can't they be chubby? The clubbed tail looks kind of like an almond to me, which isn't bad, but the pinkish color chosen is not my favorite. The violent dominance of the female behavior is something that I don't enjoy, but I can understand if it's a very fierce species. I like their speckles, the pleasing shape of their wings and paws, but the spirit of the pose is what I like the most.

 

The Greater Spotted Drakes? I wish drakes were considered actual dragons, but other than that, I don't have much to say about this one. I like its coloration and markings. It reminds me of mint chocolate chip ice cream.

 

Now, the Magelight Pygmy Wyvern. These are absolutely adorable. The hatchlings didn't disappoint! The male's wings and paws look a little smaller than the female's, but it's fine because they're so tiny and cute! I'm confused about the tail-fire part, though. Can baby Magelights only get it from their burning egg shells? The hatchlings might wander off, or the flames may somehow be extinguished.

[BlindWolf]

This is more about the way you worded it for me.

 

Like I said it's never gonna be perfect for everyone. But given the fact that the spriters put a lot of work and effort into making something for us, without being paid, I think just saying "I hate it" is really rude in my books.

 

Wording it like "The colour is too bright for me" or "To me the pose looks a bit off because XY" is something I can understand because it expresses your opinion but also gives some constructive insight to work with.

 

I'm a writer and I put my work out there too, and I can say as an artist I really feel bad if I only get "I hate it" without any idea what may have gone wrong in the reader's mind, if this is just their taste, if I actually made a mistake I was not aware of.

 

Especially if I wrote the piece in question as an answer to a request and solely to entertain the requesting guys.

I'm blunt. If I feel a certain way, I'm going to state it. Not out of meanness, but out of honesty, and because I don't like the idea of tiptoeing around my emotions and feelings and wrapping everything in bubblewrap. My intent isn't to be rude, and I'm sorry you feel that way, but I'm not going to approach how I feel at an angle and try to veil it. I feel that's two-faced. On the other hand, if you want reasons I provided those, and if you want constructive criticism I also provided that, and even expanded on it with more detailed opinions in a post in reply to someone else, and to a lesser degree in response to you. So I've already done what you're requesting of me in that respect.

 

I'm a writer too, and for me, it's important to accept that not everyone likes my work, and to accept that those who hate it are justified in doing so as long as they don't make any drama about it. I'd rather people be honest with me.

[MedievalMystic]

I think some of you have been a bit vicious with your opinions of these dragons. Even if you absolutely despise them, I'd think it was better if you at least attempted to phrase it a little more delicately. Can you imagine the type of unhappy environment you're probably creating for the hardworking artists? I know that I would be more than slightly hurt if this is how you were talking about dragons that I had made. Critiques would be fine, I'd be okay if you were saying you didn't like them, but it's more like you're trying to bash the sprite.

 

We're all entitled to our opinions, the good, the bad and the ugly. I don't think anyone here has been 'vicious', nor do I think anyone is 'bashing' the dragons.

 

If an artist is really thin skinned, they probably shouldn't be artists.

 

I really do not like the Hooktalon female for the reasons I stated. That's how the dragon comes off to me, that's how I say it. It's nothing personal. I don't care WHO designed the dragon. If TJ himself had come up with it I'd say the same thing. Just because I appreciate an artists time and effort doesn't mean they're automatically owed my, or anyone else's, praise if it's not genuine.

 

I like to keep it totally real. If I say I like something, bet I like it and it's not just empty flattery. If I don't like it, I'll say that too and why.

 

Artists, all artists, deal with this all the time. It comes with the territory. I would assume that any artist already knows that pleasing everyone is impossible.

 

 

I'm blunt. If I feel a certain way, I'm going to state it. Not out of meanness, but out of honesty, and because I don't like the idea of tiptoeing around my emotions and feelings and wrapping everything in bubblewrap. My intent isn't to be rude, and I'm sorry you feel that way, but I'm not going to approach how I feel at an angle and try to veil it. I feel that's two-faced. On the other hand, if you want reasons I provided those, and if you want constructive criticism I also provided that, and even expanded on it with more detailed opinions in a post in reply to someone else, and to a lesser degree in response to you. So I've already done what you're requesting of me in that respect.

 

I'm a writer too, and for me, it's important to accept that not everyone likes my work, and to accept that those who hate it are justified in doing so as long as they don't make any drama about it. I'd rather people be honest with me.

 

I like the way you think.

Edited May 24, 2015 by MedievalMystic

[Ceressiass]

I just have to say, that I completelly fell in love with Hooktalons. I loved two heads even since the time when splits were only two headed breed. (I had like tons of them, most of them, sadly, inbred, so I released them into the wilderness, once it started to be a problem) Then new breeds and spriters came and splits became... well, they're old and it's obvious in their look, without proper shading and such.

Since that time, I was hoping for some two head to catch my attention. I kinda like bloodscales and lindwurms, but they were not THE breed.

 

This is exactly what I was hoping for. And I'd like to thank the spriter very much. They look very lizard-like, aggressive, and epic. With plated collossi, they instantly became my new fav breed. (I think I somehow like exterior of all bad tempered breeds, lol. )

I don't care, that someone don't like them - I also don't like every released species - but I have no need to be rude and scream it loud, so the spriter could be unhappy and sad. You know - thousand people, thousand tastes.

 

The fact, that someone says "this release is dissapointment, I don't like most of breeds" is nice - but hey, we have new release almost once a month. You'll eventually get, what you want. So where is a problem? This just hit taste of some other people, than you - is it so bad, then?

[stagazer_7]

This is more about the way you worded it for me.

 

Like I said it's never gonna be perfect for everyone. But given the fact that the spriters put a lot of work and effort into making something for us, without being paid, I think just saying "I hate it" is really rude in my books.

 

Wording it like "The colour is too bright for me" or "To me the pose looks a bit off because XY" is something I can understand because it expresses your opinion but also gives some constructive insight to work with.

 

I'm a writer and I put my work out there too, and I can say as an artist I really feel bad if I only get "I hate it" without any idea what may have gone wrong in the reader's mind, if this is just their taste, if I actually made a mistake I was not aware of.

 

Especially if I wrote the piece in question as an answer to a request and solely to entertain the requesting guys.

^I agree.

Constructive criticism is fine and can be extremely helpful in pointing out where something could be changed and improved - but one needs to be nice about it. This is not obligatory, but it should be done.

 

I've had my share of releases where I adored the hatchies (still do) and the adults didn't turn up nearly as nice as I expected so I understand the feeling of disappointment when something doesn't turn out the way one expects. But that's kind of the beauty of DC, there are so many different types of art-styles that there are certain to be some dragons one wishes to hoard and make lineages from. If I don't like the sprite I simply don't collect them, I gather my obligatory 8 CB's for my goals and work with the dragons I do like until the next release. It's really not that much of a big deal.

[MedievalMystic]

but I have no need to be rude and scream it loud, so the spriter could be unhappy and sad. You know - thousand people, thousand tastes.

 

If people insist on labeling an honest opinion that's not flowery and dripping honey as 'rude', well, I guess I'm one of those 'rude' ones.

 

Imo, an artist learns and grows with EVERY opinion, be it good or bad. If all an artist ever got was 'OMG I LOVE IT, IT'S PERFECT', they wouldn't grow as artists and their work would suffer for it, imo.

 

Again, if an artist is going to get their feelings hurt and go into a sulk anytime someone doesn't like a work that they do and point out why , they probably shouldn't be artists. Thin skinned artists are in for a long, hard road. I fully expect artists to be tough.

 

I haven't seen any dragon bashing here, just honest opinions.

Edited May 24, 2015 by MedievalMystic

[zaverxi]

Ah, I love the smell of drama in the morning.

 

Ignoring all of it to say the pygmies are great and I want 200. And yet, still egglocked, alas.

[Sinion Kabe]

I have grabbed 2 of each. This will be all for now. Thank you to TJ and the hard working, talented artists for these new additions

 

In regards to the debate on the quality of the sprites, as human beings we will all have our own preferences. What is my least favourite may be your most favourite. But to verbally slay a dragon sprite is disrespectful. Forget all this "oh but I am an individual with an opinion". It's not a nice thing to do....full stop! And these same people that are slaying the sprites are collecting the dragons. If they are so utterly terrible (in your opinion) surely you shouldn't be adding these ghastly looking creatures to your scroll?

Edited May 24, 2015 by Sinion Kabe

[BlindWolf]

I have grabbed 2 of each. This will be all for now. Thank you to TJ and the hard working, talented artists for these new additions

 

In regards to the debate on the quality of the sprites, as human beings we will all have our own preferences. What is my least favourite may be your most favourite. But to verbally slay a dragon sprite is disrespectful. Forget all this  "oh but I am an individual with an opinion". It's not a nice thing to do....full stop! And these same people that are slaying the sprites are collecting the dragons. If they are so utterly terrible (in your opinion) surely you shouldn't be adding these ghastly looking creatures to your scroll?

Generally I don't reply to people unless they quote me directly, but I have to say. Critique is a viable and good thing, not something to disparage in any sane creative community. It's what helps someone grow. What's more, the ability to express our opinions within reason is important to any discussion community, since it allows people to express their ideas and feelings without being shouted down.

 

So this is why I disagree with the idea that people who don't like something shouldn't be allowed to say it, or have to sugercoat it to the point where everyone gets a cavity. It's not mean, in and of itself, to state an opinion or give critique. The same way nobody is telling you that you're wrong for liking them, or not allowed to express it.

 

Also, some of us collect sprites because we collect sprites. It's a mindset you see in things like Pokemon, we want to catch 'em all whether or not we personally like the dragon.

Edited May 24, 2015 by BlindWolf

[Isuzu]

No one's verbally slaying the sprite though, or referring to them as "ghastly creatures".

Pointing out why you don't like something is not the same thing as bashing it.

[dragontamer44722]

Woke up to pretty babies :3 Out of all of them...I'm surprised to say I like the 2 headed best. I like flashy so since they have more colors it appeals to me. Still ,that pygmy is adorable and that Drake is still very neat, breeding plans may now commence!

[danicast]

And these same people that are slaying the sprites are collecting the dragons. If they are so utterly terrible (in your opinion) surely you shouldn't be adding these ghastly looking creatures to your scroll?

I am like this. When I don't like a dragon for any reason, I don't keep them in my scroll, not even one. Put me in the group of people who doesn't like any of the three new dragons. I won't be collecting them and I'll give away the ones that I have.

They are not my taste.

Edited May 24, 2015 by danicast