A way to know the common from the uncommon

[jakora2]

Ok so basically in this game we have dragons , we have your everyday dragons taht you can easily get at the cave , you some that are a little harder to get and othersb that only exist in dreams but how do we know that ?

 

I mean a holiday dragon or a gold dragon is rare because it's hard to get right ? but rare means that not many exist of this particular dragon so what if we have less black dragons than gold ones does that make black dragons rarer than the rare gold ones ? what i am suggesting is to create somekind of a list ( i am sure that all dragons have some code to identify them ) so basically a list that contains all dragons in drag cave ( idk how many are there 100 maybe ? ) that counts all the dragons in dragon cave's scrolls and lists how many exist of each kind for example :

 

gold dragons - 15986

pigmy - 289022

neglected - 1265

 

 

i think you've got the idea , this way we can easily know what is rare and what is not

[edwardelricfreak]

Only TJ knows the numbers and from what I know, he doesn't like to share specific things like that with us. He keeps stuff like the ratios and other things at the root of the mechanics secret.

[Dolphinsong]

Do note, we do effect how common/uncommon something is cave wise by which ones we breed a lot verses which ones don't get bred as much. Those bred a lot will be less likely seen in the main cave as cave drops while those not bred as often will be seen more in the cave. Over time they always change, one that was showing as super common is suddenly uncommon months later.

 

Also right now, its impossible to get true numbers of how many of each breed there is. Some scrolls are hidden so you cannot even count what dragons are there

Edited June 4, 2014 by Dolphinsong

[Fuzzbucket]

Why do we need to know ? We try for whatever we want, and we can tell what's rare by how hard it is to find. The wiki has a rough idea, and that's enough, surely ? (I am SURE TJ would never tell us how many there are of each, anyway.)

[dragongrrl]

These are numbers that are changing minute-by-minute, as new eggs are generated in the Biomes and breeding dragons on scrolls. Counters for every single breed...it would be interesting to the statisticians and factoholics, but I don't expect TJ to release that kind of information.

 

If I had to guess, I'd say at least 15,000 eggs are added to the Cave on an average day. But I don't think we'll ever see the real stats.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Personally, I don't care how many there are of any dragon.

 

What I do wish we had is an OFFICIAL list of exactly which dragons are actually RARE.. which are UNCOMMON.. and which are COMMON.

 

Not a guesstimate, or a member consensus.. but an honest to TJ list of EXACTLY which dragon has what rarity. Exluding things like the unbreedable rares (paper, chickens and dinos), neglecteds, vampires, or holidays which are Limited Editions. I want an OFFICIAL rarity list of the dragons that drop in cave on an every day basis.

[Fuzzbucket]

Personally, I don't care how many there are of any dragon.

 

What I do wish we had is an OFFICIAL list of exactly which dragons are actually RARE.. which are UNCOMMON.. and which are COMMON.

 

Not a guesstimate, or a member consensus.. but an honest to TJ list of EXACTLY which dragon has what rarity. Exluding things like the unbreedable rares (paper, chickens and dinos), neglecteds, vampires, or holidays which are Limited Editions. I want an OFFICIAL rarity list of the dragons that drop in cave on an every day basis.

All I want to know is - why? What use would it be ?

[LibbyLishly]

All I want to know is - why? What use would it be ?

I could see it being useful for establishing personal scroll goals or for making the trade market more uniform. I don't think it's strictly necessary, but I could still see it having some use.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Why? Because I like to KNOW for one thing.

 

Plus, if you know something is rare, you know you will have to work a little harder to get it.

 

It would also help with trading, especially for newbies and casual traders, so you'll know if someone is making a fair offer or is trying to scam you. If you know about supply and demand, you'll be better able to judge why something is more valuable, regardless of rarity. But knowing the rarity would make more sense, instead of guessing all the time.

 

And maybe there's more than just rare, uncommon and common. Maybe TJ has it set up as ultra common, common, sort of uncommon, uncommon, very uncommon, sort of rare, rare and ultra rare.

 

Maybe things aren't as cut and dried as we think they are. So I for one would like to KNOW.. and I'd like it to be OFFICIAL. Because when all I have is an overabundance of nothing but members opinions, I feel like I'm being lied to and I don't like being lied to. EVER.

[danicast]

Why? Because I like to KNOW for one thing.

 

Plus, if you know something is rare, you know you will have to work a little harder to get it.

 

It would also help with trading, especially for newbies and casual traders, so you'll know if someone is making a fair offer or is trying to scam you. If you know about supply and demand, you'll be better able to judge why something is more valuable, regardless of rarity. But knowing the rarity would make more sense, instead of guessing all the time.

 

And maybe there's more than just rare, uncommon and common. Maybe TJ has it set up as ultra common, common, sort of uncommon, uncommon, very uncommon, sort of rare, rare and ultra rare.

 

Maybe things aren't as cut and dried as we think they are. So I for one would like to KNOW.. and I'd like it to be OFFICIAL. Because when all I have is an overabundance of nothing but members opinions, I feel like I'm being lied to and I don't like being lied to. EVER.

I don't think that this information is going to be revealed ever. According to my observations since I started to play DC it's part of the game to guess - guess if there'll be a release, guess if the dragon will be extremely rare (copper) or extremely common (frostbites and Falconiforms), guess if people will go insane offering 3 CB gold for an avatar or will distribute for free in the departure thread because they breed like bunnies. Guess is part of the game, is one of the things that makes the game interesting and unpredictable. I don't think TJ will ever change that.

[KageSora]

I don't really think having an "official" list will help that much with things like the trade market--some dragons are rare as CB, but much less rare as bred eggs. Or at least they're much easier to get as a bred egg than in the cave.

 

Especially since lineage is a huge factor to many people. That can REALLY throw things out of whack. Sure, a gold is rare--but if it's a 20th gen with inbreeding and a messy lineage it's drastically less valuable than if it's CB.

 

I mean, it'd be neat to see, sure--I just don't see it doing anything besides providing some neat things to consider.

[TheGrox]

The ratios have changed quite a bit in the past - I mean blacks and stripes used to be rather rare, but now they're pretty common - so I'm not sure you can put a definite common/uncommon/rare label on everything.

 

I think things are fine as they are. Newbies will learn how rare things are and what to offer on them in trades and such. Popularity is a factor in how much things are worth in trades, too.

 

I suppose it'd be interesting to get more information, but I wouldn't say it'd be useful.

Edited June 4, 2014 by TheGrox

[KageSora]

The ratios have changed quite a bit in the past - I mean blacks and stripes used to be rather rare, but now they're pretty common - so I'm not sure you can put a definite common/uncommon/rare label on everything.

That's also an example of user-generated rarity. They were common, then got overbred due to the alts, became very rare as CB, and then settled back to a more common state.

 

Which just further indicates how it'd be hard to calculate since CB vs bred rarity is gonna be different than the overall rarity.

[HeatherMarie]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember it *used* to be (almost positive TJ had actually said this at one point) that the cave itself doesn't even *have* designations for common, uncommon, etc. From what I can tell those designations are user-designated based on educated guesses.

 

An up-to-date LIST would include INTENSE code-work and lag, what with so many users accessing it so often and it *changing* with every single egg dropped or bred. I'm not sure how that would be fun for anyone.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

No, it wouldn't require any coding at all. I'm not asking for an up-to-the-minite based on population listing. I'm asking for breeds to be listed as common, uncommon or rare based on their in-cave drop rate. And no, I'm not asking what that drop rate is either.. just whether something drops as a common, uncommon or rare.

 

The only thing that would be required would be static list that would be updated whenever a new dragon is released. One page of data, updated as needed with no coding beyond making that one page.

 

Example: partial list only

Albino.................................................... common

Balloon.................................................. common

Black..................................................... common

Black ALT............................................... rare - breed only

Black Capped Teimarr.............................

Black Tea..............................................

Blacktip.................................................

Bleeding Moon.......................................

Blusang Lindwurm.................................. rare (guessing here because I don't actively hunt them)

Bright Brested Wyvern........................... common

Brimstone............................................. common

Brute...................................................

Canopy................................................ common

Coastal Waverunner.............................. common

Copper................................................. rare

 

Not sure if the unmarked ones would be considered commons or uncommons. Which is exactly why I would like an Official Rarity list. This is the kind of list I'm asking for, not something based on databases or javascript. Just plain text with OFFICIAL information.

 

[HeatherMarie]

So then, this would only be useful to people who collect CBs, then? I mean, for instance, black alts can't be found at *all* in the biomes, but they seem to be not-so-rare with breeding... Perhaps uncommon.

 

So if something is rarely dropped in biomes, but is easily being bred, that's not the kind of stuff we would know with this list.

 

Okay then, I'll back out since it seems like this feature just doesn't apply to me.

[purplehaze]

I'm not sure what good such a list would do. If you are hunting for a particular breed in the cave and you can't find one, it really doesn't matter if it is common, uncommon, or rare -- you aren't finding what you need.

[Wahya]

I'd love something like this, but knowing how this place works, it will never pass.

 

Love your suggestions Cinnamin - your last post expresses my own feelings perfectly

[Sir Barton]

I'm not sure what good such a list would do. If you are hunting for a particular breed in the cave and you can't find one, it really doesn't matter if it is common, uncommon, or rare -- you aren't finding what you need.

Completely agree. I don't see how knowing what rarity a breed is as being that important, nor do I believe it's a fixed thing.. apart from the fact that we know there will always be less metals than everything else. Even then, a huge part of that is user driven as seen with Coppers. Fi said they were meant to be uncommon. Personally, I think copper should be fairly common, especially in comparison to gold, but a new metal sent people clamoring, and an "uncommon", perhaps due to TJ ultra-uncommon, because rarer than rare.

 

The user base creates false rares all the time, so even if a breed is common to the mechanics of the cave, it can still become impossible to find.

 

As far as trade values go, well that all depends on how much you think it's worth. If a fifth gen purebred balloon is valuable to you, that's all that matters. As long as you're happy with your trade, it's a good trade, so knowing rarity in that situation doesn't matter either.

 

And Cinnamin, based on how often they pop up in the cave, and how often CBs and bred ones sit around in the AP, I would have to say that Black Capped Teimarr, Black Tea, Blacktip, Bleeding Moon, and Brutes are all common. During the release of the Black Teas, I distinctly remember Marrionetta saying that some breeds need to be common, so that one you can reliable add to your list.

Edited June 5, 2014 by Sir Barton

[KageSora]

I also agree that just a static list only updated with new breeds isn't much use.

 

What happens when the cave designates a dragon's ration in a way that should be "common" but ends up, due to users, ends up rare in the cave while breeding much better?

[Fuzzbucket]

I'm not sure what good such a list would do. If you are hunting for a particular breed in the cave and you can't find one, it really doesn't matter if it is common, uncommon, or rare -- you aren't finding what you need.

Exactly this. And coppers - for instance - seem to be "rarer" than golds at the moment because they are in demand - but as Sir Barton says, Fi says they are uncommon, not rare. So much is in what we are hunting.

 

The user base creates false rares all the time, so even if a breed is common to the mechanics of the cave, it can still become impossible to find.

 

And Daydreams were almost blockers at times till soulpeaces were invented. Now - not so much. HTF at the very least. Horses became way less common in the jungle when hellhorses became a possibility - and I bet the RATIOS didn't change - our behaviour did.

 

As for blusangs - that is just that they look so great in lineages with so many other things that EVERYONE wants them Guilty as charged, m'lud

[Naruhina_94]

I would like an official list like that. When you caught an uncommon dragon and you're newbie you don't know which dragons have an equally rarity and worth a trade. An official list could also help to decide what to ask if you're not sure about the price. I would like to know how rarity changes: I remember that when I've strarted CB striped and CB blacks were very uncommon, almost rare. I don't think that the OP is requiring a super-detailed list of statistics, but just something more general with an acceptable margin of error.

[Fuzzbucket]

So basically you just want to know for pricing the DC stockmarket. That's sad.

 

ANY dragon is worth exactly what someone else will "pay" for it. No more, no less. I have often "paid" a bunch for a common because that was what I wanted. Rarity simply didn't come into it.

[olympe]

Well, we used to have a feature to let us know which dragons are rare/uncommon on the one hand or common on the other hand. It was called breeding. If you bred rare x rare or uncommon x uncommon or rare x uncommon, you always got a refusal.

 

From the breeds that have been around then, only trios (ice, magma, thunder), gold and silver counted as rare. I don't remember for sure about geodes, though. Stripes, blacks and vines sure were non-rare.

 

Personally, though, I don't care how rare a certain breed is supposed to be according to the almighty ratios.

[Fuzzbucket]

Well, we used to have a feature to let us know which dragons are rare/uncommon on the one hand or common on the other hand. It was called breeding. If you bred rare x rare or uncommon x uncommon or rare x uncommon, you always got a refusal.

 

From the breeds that have been around then, only trios (ice, magma, thunder), gold and silver counted as rare. I don't remember for sure about geodes, though. Stripes, blacks and vines sure were non-rare.

 

Personally, though, I don't care how rare a certain breed is supposed to be according to the almighty ratios.

*signs with enthusiasm*

 

I totally agree.