Lineage restoration of dragons with dead ancestors

[SolarCat]

Okay, so I have a little suggestion as to a little way to modify PF's idea.

 

Why not create a BSA, called something like "Research" [Possibly for Nilia Pygmies, as their breed description names them as a "curious" species?]?

 

If you have a deadline, you can use the BSA to 'research' what the deadline should look like, and from then on it would work like PF's idea. You could see a preview of what the lineage looked like, and choose whether to have it like that or not.

 

I think a BSA would make it a bit more interesting than just a button on the dragon's actions page. =)

 

Just a little thought. *goes back to lurking*

I think this is a brilliant idea.

 

That would be cute, and not a bad idea at all.  Although it only makes sense for dragons that you get that have a dead ancestor already.  Dragons that get a dead ancestor after they were obtained by you [the lineage was whole when the egg entered your scroll] there would be no need to research the ancestry, since you already had that information recorded.

 

Except people also forget (especially if it's a higher-lineage dragon, can you promise you'll remember ALL of the dragon breeds in that lineage?), or perhaps the pygmy could be said to be investigating the cause of death as well? Or merely come up with a way of documenting the dead ancestor(s) in the lineage so that you can show it to others (the way you may know whether or not your dog is a purebred but you can only prove it to others for certain if you have the necessary papers).

There are millions of ways to explain why you'd want to "investigate" in this instance, without the situation being that YOU don't know what the dragon was.

 

I'd be all for this BSA, especially if the selection of the person using this BSA ("show" or "hide" the lineage) would apply for everyone viewing that dragon on their scroll.

(Although I will say that perhaps thought should be put into undoing the BSA, too, should someone see the lineage, decide they want to show it, then change their mind later).

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Ah, yes, I hadn't thought of that. So dragons which you already had which got deadlined would still have an option on their page, rather than a BSA. But the BSA would be used for new dragons you get which already have dead lineages. Actually, that means a BSA wouldn't be all that useful, seeing as the main problem here is lineages you already have being deadlined... Ah well, I still think it'd be a cute little BSA idea. x3

Hey, actually, I think you might darn well be on to something! O___o

 

Ok so, let's say I'm trading for a dragon. And it's a deadline. Well hey, then I see it as a deadline, and I know what I'm getting in to. Up to me if I want to or not.

Whereas with something I get based on a certain lineage that gets changed due to death, that's not something I agreed to or wanted.

 

In other words... what if this BSA or action or whatever you want to call it could ONLY be used on dragons that get dead ancestors AFTER you obtain them? You couldn't alter intentional deadlines (ones with dead ancestors when you recieved them) in any way, but could repair unintentional ones (that get dead ancestors after you recieve them).

 

Examples:

 

1) Someone offers you a deadline in trade. You know it's a deadline. If you choose to accept it anyway, you can't change how you view it. You went into the deal knowing what you were getting, and were ok with it.

2) Someone offers you an even gen in trade. After you get it, one of the ancestors is killed. Because the lineage was altered after you recieved it, you have a choice as to whether or not to repair it.

3) You have an even gen dragon with a dead ancestor whose lineage you chose to repair. Because you repaired it, everyone looking at your scroll will see the repaired lineage, and anyone who recieves offspring from that dragon will see the repaired lineage as well.

 

The justification for the BSA could be that, for dragons with dead ancestors before you got them, you never had the lineage papers for those to begin with. But for dragons where you DO have the full 'lineage' recorded before, perhaps you 'lost some of the records,' and your Nilia must hunt them down.

 

"You appear to have lost some of this dragon's lineage papers. Would you like to send [Nilia] to search for them?"

 

Heck, for kicks and giggles the BSA could even have a small chance of failure, PROVIDED that a different Nilia (or the same one whenever the CD wore off) could go back to look for them. In other words, you might have your lineage restoration DELAYED, but it wouldn't be PERMANENTLY unable to be restored... you'd just have to try again later. A restored lineage would return the full lineage, but would replace the names/codes of dead dragons with (Deceased).

Edited January 25, 2013 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Shamiir]

*Only just waking up, so taking risks with comprehension/expression

 

I'm rather loving the sound of Grox's BSA

and ADP's developing of the idea so far.

It's something that could suit the aesthetic values from either point of view.

 

 

[Xylene]

Overall, I just find the amount of Holly drama ridiculous. First it was "sniping Hollies" before teleport, and then "IOUs not being fulfilled" after teleport, and now "Dead lineages!" It's just too much trouble for a pixel dragon and at some point this should just stop.

 

To be fair I don't know why I proposed the idea of a poll, since I hate them overall.

 

3) You have an even gen dragon with a dead ancestor whose lineage you chose to repair. Because you repaired it, everyone looking at your scroll will see the repaired lineage, and anyone who recieves offspring from that dragon will see the repaired lineage as well.

I don't think everyone would be crazy about an irreversible option. Especially if you accidentally choose to 'keep' the records instead. (People still accidentally kill, bite, or abandon dragons, even with the 'type password/[word] to confirm.) What if I got a 'fixed' lineage and I really, really wanted the dead version?

 

Maybe "[Nilia] ate [dragon]'s lineage records. Oops." would work?

 

--Edited a typo--

Edited January 25, 2013 by Xylene

[Fuzzbucket]

Hey, actually, I think you might darn well be on to something! O___o

 

Ok so, let's say I'm trading for a dragon. And it's a deadline. Well hey, then I see it as a deadline, and I know what I'm getting in to. Up to me if I want to or not.

Whereas with something I get based on a certain lineage that gets changed due to death, that's not something I agreed to or wanted.

 

In other words... what if this BSA or action or whatever you want to call it could ONLY be used on dragons that get dead ancestors AFTER you obtain them? You couldn't alter intentional deadlines (ones with dead ancestors when you recieved them) in any way, but could repair unintentional ones (that get dead ancestors after you recieve them).

 

Examples:

 

1) Someone offers you a deadline in trade. You know it's a deadline. If you choose to accept it anyway, you can't change how you view it. You went into the deal knowing what you were getting, and were ok with it.

2) Someone offers you an even gen in trade. After you get it, one of the ancestors is killed. Because the lineage was altered after you recieved it, you have a choice as to whether or not to repair it.

3) You have an even gen dragon with a dead ancestor whose lineage you chose to repair. Because you repaired it, everyone looking at your scroll will see the repaired lineage, and anyone who recieves offspring from that dragon will see the repaired lineage as well.

 

The justification for the BSA could be that, for dragons with dead ancestors before you got them, you never had the lineage papers for those to begin with. But for dragons where you DO have the full 'lineage' recorded before, perhaps you 'lost some of the records,' and your Nilia must hunt them down.

 

"You appear to have lost some of this dragon's lineage papers. Would you like to send [Nilia] to search for them?"

 

Heck, for kicks and giggles the BSA could even have a small chance of failure, PROVIDED that a different Nilia (or the same one whenever the CD wore off) could go back to look for them. In other words, you might have your lineage restoration DELAYED, but it wouldn't be PERMANENTLY unable to be restored... you'd just have to try again later. A restored lineage would return the full lineage, but would replace the names/codes of dead dragons with (Deceased).

I thought this was what was meant in the first place. THIS - while I wouldn't use it, I would be fairly OK with. Destroyed lineages you had created could be seen - that seems fair enough. My precious deadends could not (as I don't kill ones with children that are in other people's lineages, like !)

 

I have to say it makes no more difference to me that it was a HOLLY killed, BTW. A dragon is a dragon and a hole in a lineage is a hole in a lineage. End of. I can't get excited about it as a holly issue, myself.

 

ETA OOH - yes - @xylene - for deadends, you could use the nilia (or another dragon ?) to eat the lineage so it would never be seen again. I LIKE...

Edited January 25, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[TheGrox]

I agree, it should be reversible, as Xylene said. I like the idea of the Nilia eating the records .

[Trebol35]

ooooooooo I like! and ADP i love adding in that it could fail. Now can you use another Dragon to try for the lineage, or is it just a one time fail for all time?

 

Hmmm i was thinking, Paper drags could/should have the Lineage BSA. Or maybe a Library type dragon if the creator of the paper dragons doesn't agree.

 

Will TJ go for this as to me it sounds like an excellent compromise!

[TheGrox]

Now can you use another Dragon to try for the lineage, or is it just a one time fail for all time?

I would hope that you could use another dragon, because I wouldn't want it to fail for all time. ;_;

 

I think that's what ADP meant when she said:

"the BSA could even have a small chance of failure, PROVIDED that a different Nilia (or the same one whenever the CD wore off) could go back to look for them."

Edited January 25, 2013 by TheGrox

[Trebol35]

Thanks the Grox, That is what i thought but i wanted to be sure i understood.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Yay, movement in the right direction? <;;

 

I don't think everyone would be crazy about an irreversible option. Especially if you accidentally choose to 'keep' the records instead. (People still accidentally kill, bite, or abandon dragons, even with the 'type password/[word] to confirm.) What if I got a 'fixed' lineage and I really, really wanted the dead version?

 

Maybe "[Nilia] ate [dragon]'s lineage records. Oops." would work?

 

That's both a useful and adorable idea, but--what if MISFITS could eat the records? It'd be an option usable on dragons that have had their lineages repaired, and would return them to their tombstone state. Offspring would also have their lineages turned to a tombstone state, but if the owner of said offspring chose to repair the lineages, no further amount of Misfit-eating on the account of the ancestor's owner would change their lineage again.

 

"[Misfit] ate [dragon]'s lineage records. It claims it was an accident... but was it?"

 

Examples:

- You repair a dragon's lineage. Because it's repaired, when you trade one of its kids to someone, their lineage is already full and they needn't use the repair option.

- You then realize you didn't mean to repair said dragon's lineage. You have a Misfit remove it again. The offspring's lineage is updated accordingly.

- Upon noticing the change, the owner of the offspring would be able to repair the lineage if they chose, because it would fall into the "change in lineage after obtaining" category.

 

ooooooooo I like! and ADP i love adding in that it could fail. Now can you use another Dragon to try for the lineage, or is it just a one time fail for all time?

 

Hmmm i was thinking, Paper drags could/should have the Lineage BSA. Or maybe a Library type dragon if the creator of the paper dragons doesn't agree.

 

You'd be able to use another dragon to try for the lineage.

 

While I think the idea of Papers is cute (and logical--they DO work with paper, after all), I don't think it'll work, because if I remember correctly TJ has said "no" to rares getting BSAs (Trios were a rare exception...). Plus, I think pygmies need a popularity boost more than Papers.

 

I have to say it makes no more difference to me that it was a HOLLY killed, BTW. A dragon is a dragon and a hole in a lineage is a hole in a lineage. End of. I can't get excited about it as a holly issue, myself.

 

As PF mentioned earlier, it wasn't really the Holly in itself, it was the Holly plus everything else. I've had--and seen--pretty lineages damaged before due to the killing of very common ancestors. I wasn't happy about it, but I also wasn't supremely motivated to come up with a solution. Once this happened, however--and I realized that not even the lineages of the rarest dragons were safe--it was the final push and I decided to go for it.

Edited January 25, 2013 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Pokemonfan13]

Hey, actually, I think you might darn well be on to something! O___o

 

Ok so, let's say I'm trading for a dragon. And it's a deadline. Well hey, then I see it as a deadline, and I know what I'm getting in to. Up to me if I want to or not.

Whereas with something I get based on a certain lineage that gets changed due to death, that's not something I agreed to or wanted.

 

In other words... what if this BSA or action or whatever you want to call it could ONLY be used on dragons that get dead ancestors AFTER you obtain them? You couldn't alter intentional deadlines (ones with dead ancestors when you recieved them) in any way, but could repair unintentional ones (that get dead ancestors after you recieve them).

 

Examples:

 

1) Someone offers you a deadline in trade. You know it's a deadline. If you choose to accept it anyway, you can't change how you view it. You went into the deal knowing what you were getting, and were ok with it.

2) Someone offers you an even gen in trade. After you get it, one of the ancestors is killed. Because the lineage was altered after you recieved it, you have a choice as to whether or not to repair it.

3) You have an even gen dragon with a dead ancestor whose lineage you chose to repair. Because you repaired it, everyone looking at your scroll will see the repaired lineage, and anyone who recieves offspring from that dragon will see the repaired lineage as well.

 

The justification for the BSA could be that, for dragons with dead ancestors before you got them, you never had the lineage papers for those to begin with. But for dragons where you DO have the full 'lineage' recorded before, perhaps you 'lost some of the records,' and your Nilia must hunt them down.

 

"You appear to have lost some of this dragon's lineage papers. Would you like to send [Nilia] to search for them?"

 

Heck, for kicks and giggles the BSA could even have a small chance of failure, PROVIDED that a different Nilia (or the same one whenever the CD wore off) could go back to look for them. In other words, you might have your lineage restoration DELAYED, but it wouldn't be PERMANENTLY unable to be restored... you'd just have to try again later. A restored lineage would return the full lineage, but would replace the names/codes of dead dragons with (Deceased).

That makes sense, but isn't part of the argument that was given earlier that the death is also devalues the lineage? The lineage is still devalued if offspring can't be whole. Unless the research can also be done if the parent with the dead ancestor also did the research. So a deadline is permanently dead because there is no previous research to find, but a nice lineage that has been researched after the death can still be a nice lineage for its offspring because the pygmies can find the research in the parents' files.

 

If it works like that, I'd say it's just about perfect.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Pokemonfan13

[angelicdragonpuppy]

That makes sense, but isn't part of the argument that was given earlier that the death is also devalues the lineage? The lineage is still devalued if offspring can't be whole. Unless the research can also be done if the parent with the dead ancestor also did the research. So a deadline is permanently dead because there is no previous research to find, but a nice lineage that has been researched after the death can still be a nice lineage for its offspring because the pygmies can find the research in the parents' files.

 

If it works like that, I'd say it's just about perfect.

The state of the parent would determine the state of the offspring. If you repair a dragon's lineage, breed an egg, and give it to someone, that egg's lineage will appear with its parent's lineages in their repaired state. Conversely, if you breed an egg from an unrepaired deadline (or a deadline you can't repair, because you 'bought it' when it was a deadline) and give it to someone, the lineage will remain a deadline.

[Pokemonfan13]

Sounds good to me.

[platedlizard]

I think you all know my opinion, but I'm going to restate it. Things are fine as they are right now, nothing needs to be changed. Lineages are over-valued in DC anyway. When a dragon dies it's data should be deleted, like it is now.

[Pokemonfan13]

I think you all know my opinion, but I'm going to restate it. Things are fine as they are right now, nothing needs to be changed. Lineages are over-valued in DC anyway. When a dragon dies it's data should be deleted, like it is now.

Lineages are one of the few things people can do when they have reached their goals, one of the few things that can keep the interest of older players. So it is perfectly understandable that they get "overvalued" when making and collecting lineages is just about all that someone who doesn't need to collect CBs [except for releases] any more has left to do.

 

Just because they are overvalued doesn't mean that they don't mean a lot to the people who collect them and that they shouldn't be protected from the actions of others.

 

 

Seriously, the other person can have their dead dragon. Gone from their scroll, can't make any more babies. As far as they're concerned it's gone completely. The only place it's left is in the lineage of its children IF the owner of that lineage wants to get rid of the tombstone. And why not? Like has been said many times, you don't erase a purebred dog's pedigree when his grandfather dies, you still know you your great grandma was, even though she's dead. So why must there be a gap with death with dragon lineages? [and please no "but my great grandma is alive" things. It's an example]

Edited January 26, 2013 by Pokemonfan13

[HeatherMarie]

And why not? Like has been said many times, you don't erase a purebred dog's pedigree when his grandfather dies, you still know you your great grandma was, even though she's dead. So why must there be a gap with death with dragon lineages? [and please no "but my great grandma is alive" things. It's an example]

This is why I support this type of suggestion so strongly.

 

Personally, the way I play DC, lineages don't matter one bit to me (unless I have a Dorkface or Thuwed). So I could say I don't care, because it doesn't affect me.

 

But, very simply, the suggestion makes sense. The way it is now *doesn't* make sense, not for those scroll owners who looked at a lineage one day, and then the next day there was a tombstone in the lineage. Scroll owners, our "characters", would keep that lineage information, not erase it just because the dragon died.

[Xylene]

Seriously, the other person can have their dead dragon.  Gone from their scroll, can't make any more babies.  As far as they're concerned it's gone completely.  The only place it's left is in the lineage of its children IF the owner of that lineage wants to get rid of the tombstone.  And why not?  Like has been said many times, you don't erase a purebred dog's pedigree when his grandfather dies, you still know you your great grandma was, even though she's dead.  So why must there be a gap with death with dragon lineages?  [and please no "but my great grandma is alive" things.  It's an example]

If we're talking about remembering ancient relatives, we might as well say "People get old and forget their relatives" too. My family tree goes back about 4 generations for sure, then 2 generations as 'Maybe, but we're reasonably sure,' and the other 6 are "I think great-grandma Rosana mentioned having an auntie Carol - so we might be related." How come our dragons remember every single ancestor since the beginning of time? I don't even know how a dragon that was laid as an egg remembers its parents. And do dragons even care who their great-great grandmother was?

 

While we're at it, a good lot of eggs are pulled out of the AP every day. I doubt I attached a note saying "This egg bred by Xene and Kaixn on Xylene's scroll. Come for a visit! - xoxo <3", so how can I be sure that an egg I picked out of the AP was bred by these two dragons owned by this person I've never talked to? It's an egg. It looks like every other egg of the same breed. For all I know it could've been bred by my own dragons when they got frisky and wanted to hide the evidence by abandoning the poor thing.

 

In my case, I can't imagine keeping accurate lineage records for 300 adult dragons, much less the 3000 I actually have. Losing records happens. Misremembering things happens. If we're going to suggest "My dragon should be able to research an ancestor!" we should also add "We should have to research the lineage of every dragon we pull out of the AP."

Edited January 27, 2013 by Xylene

[Amur_Rama]

I also have to side with the camp that likes things how they are.

 

If lineages are the only thing that keeps you coming back, if lineages were set and never changed, what else would you be doing? The way I see it, this dead Holly or any other dead ancestor should make you go out and repair your lineage, by finding new people to trade with.

 

That seems to be the only game-value of a lineage. You take the risk of having someone kill some ancestor. But it's not like you can't recreate the lineage. Hollies aren't extinct, and a whole new batch is likely coming out as HMs for this raffle, you have plenty of new people to hit up to repair that stripe lineage.

 

You're still screwing up how I play. You can always make a new lineage to replace what's missing in yours. When you wreck my lineage by revealing what I wanted destroyed, I can't fix that.

 

[Pokemonfan13]

If we're talking about remembering ancient relatives, we might as well say "People get old and forget their relatives" too. My family tree goes back about 4 generations for sure, then 2 generations as 'Maybe, but we're reasonably sure,' and the other 6 are "I think great-grandma Rosana mentioned having an auntie Carol - so we might be related." How come our dragons remember every single ancestor since the beginning of time? I don't even know how a dragon that was laid as an egg remembers its parents. And do dragons even care who their great-great grandmother was?

In this case it's written down in a big family tree. Unless the documentation is physically lost you're not going to be able to just forget about the dead dragon and its parents.

 

Its more akin the situation with a branch of my family, the Bakers. There is this giant book of all the progeny of the original Baker [the ancestor of this Baker line] who immigrated to the US in the late 1700s. A bit backwards to our lineages where all the parents are tracked, not the progeny and aunts and uncles, but the idea is the same. Everyone in that book is related to me in some way, and I can't just forget about any of them because it's written down and I can look them up. If the book got lost, sure, but since it exists we know about them.

[Pokemonfan13]

I also have to side with the camp that likes things how they are. 

 

If lineages are the only thing that keeps you coming back, if lineages were set and never changed, what else would you be doing?  The way I see it, this dead Holly or any other dead ancestor should make you go out and repair your lineage, by finding new people to trade with.

 

That seems to be the only game-value of a lineage.  You take the risk of having someone kill some ancestor. But it's not like you can't recreate the lineage.  Hollies aren't extinct, and a whole new batch is likely coming out as HMs for this raffle, you have plenty of new people to hit up to repair that stripe lineage.

 

You're still screwing up how I play.  You can always make a new lineage to replace what's missing in yours.  When you wreck my lineage by revealing what I wanted destroyed, I can't fix that.

How exactly do you suggest repairing the lineage? Find the person you got it from and ask them to replace the male's side with a new dragon? And what if it was a 10th gen perfect pyramid? I hate to even ponder how many rebreedings would have to be done to replace that!

 

I think people would much rather work on something new than have to fix something they already finished.

 

 

[the amusing thing is that's a lineage my CB holly would fit in perfectly because his usual mate is a bright pink, if it wasn't for the fact that he's booked I'd totally be suggesting he take the place of Cheeze's dead dragon. x3 But ALL of his holly offspring are from bright pink, you could find someone who has one of them.]

 

 

 

And with the newest suggestion [the lineage can only be "repaired" if you already own the dragon when the killing happens] you can make a deadline and have it be a deadline forever. Nobody can ever peek, even owners of offspring. Srsly, every day we're coming up with ways to make the suggestion even less objectionable to deadline makers. From what I can tell, if that newest suggestion is used, the only objection left is "Killing should cause it to be completely wiped from the database", which I just plain don't get.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Pokemonfan13

[Amur_Rama]

How exactly do you suggest repairing the lineage? Find the person you got it from and ask them to replace the male's side with a new dragon? And what if it was a 10th gen perfect pyramid? I hate to even ponder how many rebreedings would have to be done to replace that!

 

I think people would much rather work on something new than have to fix something they already finished.

 

 

[the amusing thing is that's a lineage my CB holly would fit in perfectly because his usual mate is a bright pink, if it wasn't for the fact that he's booked I'd totally be suggesting he take the place of Cheeze's dead dragon. x3 But ALL of his holly offspring are from bright pink, you could find someone who has one of them.]

Actually yes, that's exactly what I'm suggesting. Records are lost, libraries get burned to the ground. You mope for a bit and then you get started rebuilding it.

 

I never said it was easy. Please reference me to the 10gen pyramid that someone mentioned got destroyed by one tombstone in this thread. Otherwise, that's an unprovable hyperbole of a counter-example.

 

It'd be different if it were a dragon that really was unobtainable again. But that was a pretty short lineage, and Hollies aren't that uncommon anymore, heck, people were tossing "poorly" lineaged ones back into the AP last Christmas. So blasting my opinion on this particularly silly tizzy of a "problem" because the OP doesn't feel like working to remake their lineages doesn't invalidate my point.

 

Anyone can maintain their own lineages, if rare breeds are involved you go talk to the Even-Gen people who have your same interest in maintaining the lineage, if something gets killed, you go hunting for replacements.

 

It looks to me like the lineage was done, and it was short. There really isn't much to fix. There's a Holly thread in GD if the OP really needs to find a new Holly to get a non-Holly offspring for.

 

 

The point still is. I'm taking a torch to my file cabinet, what gives you the right to start gluing the ashes together again?

 

[angelicdragonpuppy]

And with the newest suggestion [the lineage can only be "repaired" if you already own the dragon when the killing happens] you can make a deadline and have it be a deadline forever.  Nobody can ever peek, even owners of offspring.  Srsly, every day we're coming up with ways to make the suggestion even less objectionable to deadline makers.  From what I can tell, if that newest suggestion is used, the only objection left is "Killing should cause it to be completely wiped from the database", which I just plain don't get.

This indeedy. Also, I think the newest suggestion makes sense with how records would be kept, as well. From an "RP" standpoint, when we abandon an egg, we don't just roll it helter-skelter into the wilderness. We put it near the main cave--where it has the best chance of survival. Since we bothered to trek all the way to a cave to dump it, chances are we care about it somewhat, so maybe people stick little lineage papers under it or something for new owners to find. Hee, who knows? At any rate, let's think about what happens when you get those "papers." Someone who makes an intentional deadline, well, leaves lineage papers that look the way they wanted it to look. If you pick them up, you can't change them, because that's all you've got to go from. But let's imagine you pick up a 5th gen PB Flamingo. It's got all its papers intact. Even if the owner of one of those ancestors kills it later on, you have the papers that show what that dead ancestor was, so the killing doesn't affect what you do or don't know about the dragon.

 

But really, I think that's over-thinking it a bit, haha. I think this system is perfect from the game perspective: intentional deadlines will always be seen the way they were intended to be seen, people who trade for or pick up eggs with certain lineages will be assured that their dragon will always have that lineage, and two common dragons get two very useful BSAs. Win-win for everyone!

 

The point still is. I'm taking a torch to my file cabinet, what gives you the right to start gluing the ashes together again?

 

But we aren't gluing together YOUR filing cabinet's ashes. If you want to delete things from your scroll (by killing them), have at it. However, if you choose to torch MY filing cabinet (lineages of things I own myself, and may well have paid you for because they had a certain linage), then yes, I very much have the right to pick up the pieces!

 

As a side note, while I don't remember the exact dragon, there WAS a very high-gen even gen dragon from the Epic Even Gen project that got all messed up due to a 2nd gen getting killed. Even though everyone who joins that project has to make a promise not to kill the associated dragons in order to participate.

Edited January 27, 2013 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Xylene]

In this case it's written down in a big family tree.  Unless the documentation is physically lost you're not going to be able to just forget about the dead dragon and its parents.

 

Its more akin the situation with a branch of my family, the Bakers.  There is this giant book of all the progeny of the original Baker [the ancestor of this Baker line] who immigrated to the US in the late 1700s.  A bit backwards to our lineages where all the parents are tracked, not the progeny and aunts and uncles, but the idea is the same.  Everyone in that book is related to me in some way, and I can't just forget about any of them because it's written down and I can look them up.  If the book got lost, sure, but since it exists we know about them.

But then we can also argue that lineages do get lost. And it does happen. Remember how I mentioned my family tree only goes back for sure, for 4 generations? Evidently there was a scrapbook detailing a dozen generations in my family tree, but there was a house fire that destroyed them, as well as killing the relative who was keeping them for reference purposes. Nobody could remember the oldest data, so while they didn't cease to exist, they ceased to be known.

 

I doubt every dragon comes with papers of its family tree, and that a scroll owner keeps everything in neat orderly piles. I mean, come on - I didn't want this egg and the only reason I abandoned it was because if I kill it, it'll lock up my scroll for 24 hours. As mentioned, accidents happen. Even if they did come with papers, copies would get destroyed and nobody can remember the parents of every dragon. If we're proposing we 'research' to see what a dead dragon's lineage was like, I also propose that dragons' lineages have to be researched when we first pick them up, and occasionally get burned, lost, or destroyed in random events, and have to be researched again.

 

How exactly do you suggest repairing the lineage?  Find the person you got it from and ask them to replace the male's side with a new dragon?  And what if it was a 10th gen perfect pyramid?  I hate to even ponder how many rebreedings would have to be done to replace that!

 

I think people would much rather work on something new than have to fix something they already finished.

You breed a mirrored mate, or you breed a mate and incorporate a dead to fill the exact same spot. In this case you're suggesting that people would give up because they don't want to work again, and that makes sense. If someone spills coffee on a comic page you finished drawing? Either leave it as is and work with the spill, or redraw it. Nobody's going to come and do it for you.

[siliconrose]

I doubt every dragon comes with papers of its family tree, and that a scroll owner keeps everything in neat orderly piles. I mean, come on - I didn't want this egg and the only reason I abandoned it was because if I kill it, it'll lock up my scroll for 24 hours. As mentioned, accidents happen. Even if they did come with papers, copies would get destroyed and nobody can remember the parents of every dragon. If we're proposing we 'research' to see what a dead dragon's lineage was like, I also propose that dragons' lineages have to be researched when we first pick them up, and occasionally get burned, lost, or destroyed in random events, and have to be researched again.

Yeah, I can't imagine abandoned eggs come with papers. If we're being realistic, no egg which was abandoned should even have a lineage.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I doubt every dragon comes with papers of its family tree, and that a scroll owner keeps everything in neat orderly piles. I mean, come on - I didn't want this egg and the only reason I abandoned it was because if I kill it, it'll lock up my scroll for 24 hours. As mentioned, accidents happen. Even if they did come with papers, copies would get destroyed and nobody can remember the parents of every dragon. If we're proposing we 'research' to see what a dead dragon's lineage was like, I also propose that dragons' lineages have to be researched when we first pick them up, and occasionally get burned, lost, or destroyed in random events, and have to be researched again.

 

You breed a mirrored mate, or you breed a mate and incorporate a dead to fill the exact same spot. In this case you're suggesting that people would give up because they don't want to work again, and that makes sense. If someone spills coffee on a comic page you finished drawing? Either leave it as is and work with the spill, or redraw it. Nobody's going to come and do it for you.

But again, this is a game. I think everyone knows that real life can be rough and not fun and unfair and force you to restart things you've worked hard on. But do we really need to carry that misery over into a game just because it's how the real world rolls? I mean, come on, if you wanted to be that logical about how this game functions then people really shouldn't be able to have thousand-dragon armies or murder the babies of hyper-intelligent massive beasts right under their noses, either.

 

The only real issue with the new suggestion is whether or not someone has the right to permanently delete every trace of their dragon's existence from everyone else's records. That issue can be debated--I've already given my reasons why I think it should be allowed. But your issue--the issue that life stinks, deal with it--I don't understand. Yes, reality can throw years of hard work out the window. But is that really a good reason to make things more difficult in a fun little online game, too? Can't people have fun working on lineages without worrying one random scroll hacking or forgetful or accidental kill or person in a bad mood murdering dragons can make a huge collab project or a really rare dragon they've traded for lose a lot of worth, or at the very least a certain nice look to its appearance? ;___;