Lineage restoration of dragons with dead ancestors

[XiziX]

Yea, I want everything to stay as is. There is no need to change this at all. Should a change be set, it will only turn it around so the people who got their way are happy and everyone who liked it the way it will be angry or upset.

It will just be running in circles, because then what if someone petitions like this thread did to get it removed? The process starts all over again, but I do notice that not a lot of people mind that their is a dead dragon in their lineage...

 

The option given are okay, but nothing that really grabs my attention at all.

 

You took the risk of accepting an egg from people who don't have to play how you like to. If they kill a dragon, that is just bad luck. Sorry your Holly is "ruined" but lots of people just have to..well...deal?

If it bugs people that much, go make a thread or lineage project where everyone vows to never ever kill/rename their dragons?

 

My suggestion: Go make a thread for trading and lineage creation with people who take an oath to never kill or rename dragons? Or not. >.>;

Edited January 28, 2013 by Lyxii

[arlymaye]

I am still wary of this BSA suggestion. Since I do make deadlines and I do not want anyone to be able to research my deadline's ancestry, should I suggest a BSA to have a dragon BURN ancestry line instead, which is the direct opposite of this BSA suggestion. If one set of players can have the ability to research and show deadlines, another set of players should also be given the ability to bury ancestry till eternity.

[Fuzzbucket]

My suggestion: Go make a thread for trading and lineage creation with people who take an oath to never kill or rename dragons?

There is one, and someone did kill a dragon in it (the EPIC project) and make a huge hole. Just saying - as I am for no change, too.

 

@ arly. Yup, I could buy into that, too If a nilia researches, a crimson flare could burn....

Edited January 28, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[TheGrox]

I am still wary of this BSA suggestion. Since I do make deadlines and I do not want anyone to be able to research my deadline's ancestry, should I suggest a BSA to have a dragon BURN ancestry line instead, which is the direct opposite of this BSA suggestion. If one set of  players can have the ability to research and show deadlines, another set of players should also be given the ability to bury ancestry till eternity. 

Whilst I sort of like that idea, for the people who make deadlines at least, I suppose that wouldn't solve the original 'problem'. Because if someone's going round killing their CB's, they might go as far as to bury their lineages too.

 

I suppose not everyone would, so a combination of the two BSA's would make it less likely. I like it. ^^

Edited January 28, 2013 by TheGrox

[arlymaye]

Really? LOL .. u guys are too funny. I was just trying to make a point that there is no end to this show/hide/research/bury lineage thingy. If we have research and burn, then someone might come up with a Sherlock Holmes bsa to dig into the grave to find ancestry and then another to counter that and on and on. I would rather we just leave things as they are.

[XiziX]

Really? LOL .. u guys are too funny. I was just trying to make a point that there is no end to this show/hide/research/bury lineage thingy. If we have research and burn, then someone might come up with a Sherlock Holmes bsa to dig into the grave to find ancestry and then another to counter that and on and on. I would rather we just leave things as they are. 

Exactly. Thank you for making this point! This whole thing is just running in circles. Everyone is better off leaving DC as is with this stuff rather than going and attempting to change things because something happened to one dragon they had and now their lineage is "ruined".

 

Edit: I'll bring up other games as well. Let's say you are playing an MMO and something you really want drops off the thing you killed, which took forever to do so. But suddenly someone in your group takes your item that you needed. What happens then? Do the GMs stop and notice you got upset because something happened to an item you invested time in only to have it taken? Nope. They tell you to try again, they don't go in and reprogram their entire game so that way someone can't "ruin" your game experience. And they most certainly don't give it back to you.

 

So the same thing should be done in this game as well. Your lineage suddenly has a gravestone in it? Well, then go make another lineage, or be more careful with whom you partake in creating lineages with. Not everything in a game is going to make you happy. Not every options some players have is going to please you. But that is just how the game is. I don't complain when I run around in an FPS and someone has some ridiculously overpowered rifle and shoots me in the face and basically kills my whole team. It's bothersome, I hate it, but I don't ask for the game to be changed because I too have the option of doing the same thing.

 

But DC isn't an MMO or an FPS! -- Obviously not, but it's still a game. It has mechanics some people like and hate, but that is just something you have to deal with.

But DC lets you make suggestions! -- Yes, but that doesn't mean we should change every little thing in the game that is an inconvenience to you.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Lyxii

[TheGrox]

Really? LOL .. u guys are too funny. I was just trying to make a point that there is no end to this show/hide/research/bury lineage thingy. If we have research and burn, then someone might come up with a Sherlock Holmes bsa to dig into the grave to find ancestry and then another to counter that and on and on. I would rather we just leave things as they are. 

I like the Sherlock BSA idea too!! I mean, of course not .

 

 

I'm actually surprised people really like the BSA idea at all. All I did was dress-up PF's idea into a cute little BSA form, and people seemed to like it better than the original idea...

 

In all fairness, the BSA thing was just trying to find a compromise that people would like. I don't mind things the way they are now.

Edited January 28, 2013 by TheGrox

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I am still wary of this BSA suggestion. Since I do make deadlines and I do not want anyone to be able to research my deadline's ancestry, should I suggest a BSA to have a dragon BURN ancestry line instead, which is the direct opposite of this BSA suggestion. If one set of players can have the ability to research and show deadlines, another set of players should also be given the ability to bury ancestry till eternity.

But if you read the BSA suggestion, it specifically states that deadlines would be PROTECTED under this suggestion. People would only be able to research a deadline if you made the deadline after you bred and released an egg, not before. For example...

 

1. You make a very lovely 5th gen, PB Bronze Tinsel deadline. Having made it and thinking it looks epic (as indeed it does--I just saw one the other day and was most impressed!), you start gifting the offspring. Since people picking up the eggs got them as deadlines, there was never a change to how they saw the lineage. It was always a deadline as far as they could tell. As such, they couldn't restore the lineage, because the lineage never changed from how it was when they obtained the dragon.

 

2. Now, let's say you breed a very messy dragon a few times, and then decide to use it for a deadline project. Now, anyone who owned an offspring from that dragon that was bred BEFORE you deadlined it would have the option to restore the lineage to its original appearance (although most probably wouldn't, as a nice deadline is much more appealing to look at then a messy monster!). Any dragons you breed from your newly deadlined dragon AFTER it is deadlined, however, fall into category 1 and as such, no one can restore their lineages.

 

3. In other words, if you want to make deadlines and ensure those who get their offspring can ONLY see them as you meant them to be seen--as deadlines--then simply make your dragon into a deadline BEFORE you start handing out its offspring, not after.

[arlymaye]

ADP : I get what you mean. It's just a matter of me licking the cake before I serve it. An analogy.

 

Right now, I can lick the cake as much as I want before I serve it out and no one would know about it. After the BSA, security cameras are everywhere and they will capture my act of licking the cake. So, the fact that the cake is tainted is made known to all who ate it. I do not want anyone to find out my act of cake licking. Not before. Not after. I don't want to have to think about when I can and cannot lick a cake.

 

That is how I see it when I take my blade and stabbed dead a dragon.

 

Does that make sense? I have no way of explaining it better. LOL ... A killer who murdered a dragon just want it gone. That's all.

 

[Pixxelation]

I love the suggestion the way it is now. I would make it a simple action.

[dragonico]

ADP : I get what you mean. It's just a matter of me licking the cake before I serve it. An analogy.

 

Right now, I can lick the cake as much as I want before I serve it out and no one would know about it. After the BSA, security cameras are everywhere and they will capture my act of licking the cake. So, the fact that the cake is tainted is made known to all who ate it. I do not want anyone to find out my act of cake licking. Not before. Not after. I don't want to have to think about when I can and cannot lick a cake.

 

That is how I see it when I take my blade and stabbed dead a dragon.

 

Does that make sense? I have no way of explaining it better. LOL ... A killer who murdered a dragon just want it gone. That's all.

Weirdly (or not) this is exactly how I feel. Although I haven't actually made any deadlines yet, I've always wanted to. When I do, I'd probably only start killing the dragons off after I've got a decent amount dragons for the lineage and any unwanted breeds might get tossed to the AP. Then those who caught my AP'd eggs could check out the monstrous original lineage and I'd rather that they couldn't.

 

I mean, it's not a huge deal and I wouldn't mind too much but I personally would prefer that things stay as is.

[arlymaye]

Weirdly (or not) this is exactly how I feel. 

Thank goodness you got what I mean. I thought no one would understand what I was trying to say.

Edited January 28, 2013 by arlymaye

[XiziX]

ADP : I get what you mean. It's just a matter of me licking the cake before I serve it. An analogy.

 

Right now, I can lick the cake as much as I want before I serve it out and no one would know about it. After the BSA, security cameras are everywhere and they will capture my act of licking the cake. So, the fact that the cake is tainted is made known to all who ate it. I do not want anyone to find out my act of cake licking. Not before. Not after. I don't want to have to think about when I can and cannot lick a cake.

 

That is how I see it when I take my blade and stabbed dead a dragon.

 

Does that make sense? I have no way of explaining it better. LOL ... A killer who murdered a dragon just want it gone. That's all.

This has got to be one of the best things I have read in a long time. And I agree completely with it. It sums up how I really feel in one very clever analogy.

 

I want to enjoy my cake in peace!

 

Also the quote from my last post:

 

But DC isn't an MMO or an FPS! -- Obviously not, but it's still a game. It has mechanics some people like and hate, but that is just something you have to deal with.

But DC lets you make suggestions! -- Yes, but that doesn't mean we should change every little thing in the game that is an inconvenience to you.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Lyxii

[platedlizard]

Nope, still don't like any of the suggestions so far. The sites should be uniform, no research BSA thing at all. If you want to research lost lineages there's Google Cache and The Internet Archive's Wayback Machine (both of which I have used in the past to research lineages). Sure it's limited and not reliable, but it's a lot more interesting and instructive than having the site hand you everything on a plate.

 

Just as there's risk raising eggs, there should also be risk keeping lineages, and one of those risks is having someone kill a dragon and lose part of that lineage.

 

I remember a while back when a fairly prominent player who had a number of low-gen Dorkfaces etc got their scroll burned. People didn't start making suggestions about how to change the site, instead they used Google cache and The Wayback Machine and other non-site resources to reconstruct the old lineages, and then produced NEW "Lost Dorkface" and "Lost Thuwed" lineages from them. It was fun and interesting, and a real challenge in some cases.

Edited January 29, 2013 by platedlizard

[Amur_Rama]

I am still wary of this BSA suggestion. Since I do make deadlines and I do not want anyone to be able to research my deadline's ancestry, should I suggest a BSA to have a dragon BURN ancestry line instead, which is the direct opposite of this BSA suggestion. If one set of players can have the ability to research and show deadlines, another set of players should also be given the ability to bury ancestry till eternity.

Lol, +1 support at this suggestion.

 

I wanted to suggest a counter BSA earlier today called Bureaucracy to stall the Research BSA, because if you've ever tried to get information out of some private organization or the government. But I figured that'd just cause a fight.

 

Possibly used with the Shield dragons... they strike me as adorably persnickety and legalistic dragons for some reason.

[Fuzzbucket]

Lol, +1 support at this suggestion.

 

I wanted to suggest a counter BSA earlier today called Bureaucracy to stall the Research BSA, because if you've ever tried to get information out of some private organization or the government. But I figured that'd just cause a fight.

 

Possibly used with the Shield dragons... they strike me as adorably persnickety and legalistic dragons for some reason.

YES ! Love it ! (I used to work in health service admin, and this really resonates )

[arlymaye]

Lol, +1 support at this suggestion.

 

I wanted to suggest a counter BSA earlier today called Bureaucracy to stall the Research BSA, because if you've ever tried to get information out of some private organization or the government. But I figured that'd just cause a fight.

 

Possibly used with the Shield dragons... they strike me as adorably persnickety and legalistic dragons for some reason.

Ha! +1 WIN for Bureaucracy

[Amur_Rama]

...... Perhaps using Bureaucracy could lower the success percentage of anyone using Research on a particular dragon. You couldn't pile Bureaucrats on one dragon all at once (one Bureaucrat per case file,right?). But they could probably function under an inverse coding used by Fertility. You could apply it, and it would sit there until someone tried to Research your dragon, where the Bureaucrat would block it. It'd be up to the owner to keep an eye on their dragons to protect their secrets.

 

I'll admit straight out that that would be a hassle and probably not fun in the long run, and let's get it right out there that I would totally prefer that things stay as they are.

 

If it did get added.... I could almost really enjoy that kind of cat-and-mouse game, with some determined Researchers trying to dig into where I've buried the bodies, my army of Bureaucrats throwing red tape at them. ... a couple of conspiracy lineages... maybe an RP about it...

[Pokemonfan13]

I don't think there needs to be anything to counter research. All you have to do is plan your deadline lineage so there aren't any eggs out on other scrolls before you do your killing if you care about people not being able to see the lineage that was there before.

 

 

Because seriously, the point of this is so people can have their lineages back if someone kills an ancestor. With something to counter research people can still ruin a perfectly fine lineage. All that's needed is a little option to say "I never want to research this dragon" so you don't accidentally research your deadline dragons.

[Ashywolf]

I don't know about any of this. I don't think dragon cave needs it. I feel like TJ has more concerning problems to worry about honestly.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Ashywolf

[tjekan]

I like this suggestion, for two reasons:

 

1) It will only affect the look of dragons on the scroll of the person who uses the action. If the owner of the parent prefers to see a tombstone arrangement, and the owner of the child prefers to see the longer lineage, then using this arrangement they can both be happy. I once had a lovely Thuwed even-gen get destroyed because somebody killed one of the intermediate ancestors. They wanted to turn their dragon into a deadline CB tinsel, but I still wanted my dragon to be an even-gen Thuwed! With this action, we could have both gotten what we wanted.

 

2) It makes no sense for a dragon's lineage to disappear when you kill it anyway. If the lineage was recorded on my scroll before your dragon dies, it isn't going to suddenly disappear off my scroll when your dragon dies.

[DarkEternity]

I wanted to suggest a counter BSA earlier today called Bureaucracy to stall the Research BSA, because if you've ever tried to get information out of some private organization or the government.  But I figured that'd just cause a fight.

 

If you want to research lost lineages there's Google Cache and The Internet Archive's Wayback Machine (both of which I have used in the past to research lineages).

There are also these options available:

- Screenshotting the lineage and saving it in your folder (You can also save a complete screenshot of the entire website if you really want to)

- Saving a complete HTML of the web page holding your lineage

- Save a completele HTML of the web page holding the Google Cached version of your lineage.

 

A killer who murdered a dragon just want it gone. That's all.

This. If I kill a dragon, I actually kill it to get rid of it and its lineage. Proposing a BSA to circumvent the disappearance of the lineage really does defeat the purpose of killing a dragon no matter how nicely the suggestion is worded.

 

I want to enjoy my cake in peace!

Edited January 30, 2013 by DarkEternity

[purplehaze]

2) It makes no sense for a dragon's lineage to disappear when you kill it anyway. If the lineage was recorded on my scroll before your dragon dies, it isn't going to suddenly disappear off my scroll when your dragon dies.

QFT

 

I can see that any future breedings from that dragon should not show the lineage, but I don't see what it harms if the lineage still shows on dragons that existed before the death.

 

I am actually kind of neutral on this proposal. It seems to make things more complicated and confusing. I have had some lineages spoiled by killing, which made me sad, but I just accepted it as a risk that we take when we build lineages on other people's dragons. I usually try to make most of my lineages with my own dragons for that very reason.

Edited January 30, 2013 by purplehaze

[WraithZephyr]

I can see leaving things alone, but I do occasionally like to think about seeing past tombstones - not on a permanent need, but on a temporary need on very few occasions. I do have some nice golds where CBs golds were killed by the owners. The lines look to be "sanitized" deadlines but in fact are not.. the owner just killed them for whatever reason. I like to trade my gold eggs and have proof to show that they are not sanitized lines with massive inbreeding involved, but that yes someone really was crazy enough to kill their CB golds long after I had gotten the offspring from.

 

I do see a BSA as a good way to do that. A BSA where a dragon does research on a dragons' deceased is kind of cool really. Personally I think pygmy's are too irresponsible/flighty for the task. I think Mints would be better.

 

Anyways, the scroll owner would activate the BSA and select the dragon to be researched. The dragons from the tombstone and beyond would then appear. They need to be faded looking since they are on the wrong side of the tombstone so to speak, but still clear enough to show what breeds were there. The BSA rests after 48 hours (like Magi's do with Teleport). During that 48 hour period the BSA is actually in effect, the full lineage would be viewable to the scroll owner. Need to have an option where prior to activating the BSA you can (if you wanted to) allow "everyone else" to see the full lineage while the BSA is in effect. That would allow people who need to share proof of whatever to someone else to be able to do that. Once the 48 hours is up, the BSA turns off and the lineage goes back to the way it was. The BSA dragon is then free again to research another dragon's line.

[cyradis4]

I own a Thoroughbred ex-race horse. I can trace his lineage back to the 1600s. A horse generation is less than 20 years. So, assume an average of 10 years per generation. That means, I can trace his lineage back 40 generations. FORTY. Yes, the information can be lost. But that's why almost all pure breeds have stud books. To keep track of said lineages.

 

Having said that, I always laugh when I see people going, "NONONO NO CHANGE!" and the whole, "There's no problem!".

 

Well, hate to break it to you, but there is a problem, because people have posted that there is a problem. Just saying!

 

 

Having said that, I'm 100% for the BSA. And for all those complaining that they want their dead dragon dead and gone, if I'm understanding all of the suggestions right, the only think kept are the pictures of the ancestors? In other words, there won't be any way, at all, for the owner of the restored lineage (or anyone looking at the restored lineage) to see your dead dragon's view page, or other progeny, or even name or code. So there's absolutely no way for someone to, as someone so colorfully put it, see that you licked a cake. They can see that the cake was licked by someone, but not who did the licking.

 

Since I do believe that's the case, it sounds to me like those who are objecting have malicious actions in mind. Ie, deliberately destroying other people's hard created lineages. It's possible you don't, but honestly? That's how you come across. And I'm sorry, but I just take exception to that sort of behavior. It's just wrong.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Edited January 30, 2013 by cyradis4