Posted June 3, 2013 (edited) Perhaps, instead of a "view one way or the other", have as a default, "do not show any changes to the lineage"? So, if you traded for a deadline, it'd stay a deadline, but if you traded for a 3rd gen Tinsel, it'd stay a 3rd gen Tinsel? With the name changing to "dead" if it's killed? That would be fine with me. So would having the default being the dead dragon's picture and ancestry visible, but it being easy for any viewer who wants to change that to a deadline view (either through a scroll setting or a BSA.) Adding more personalized scroll display options is something that enriches the game, not detracts from it. I just want it to be the case that none of the power to change one person's scroll displays rests with other people. Face it, some users just like trying to hurt others. We wouldn't have viewbombers if that wasn't the case. We even had people deliberately sending their 'enemies' flowers they didn't like on VALENTINE'S DAY of all days, just to try and sabotage their scrolls. There probably isn't anything we can do to truly prevent view-bombing, but messing up other people's choice of lineage displays is just something that never even had to be a possibility in the first place. It should be removed from gameplay, one way or the other. Edited June 3, 2013 by tjekan Share this post Link to post
Posted June 3, 2013 I love that line! Perhaps, instead of a "view one way or the other", have as a default, "do not show any changes to the lineage"? So, if you traded for a deadline, it'd stay a deadline, but if you traded for a 3rd gen Tinsel, it'd stay a 3rd gen Tinsel? With the name changing to "dead" if it's killed? Cheers! C4. I'm glad this has been brought up, since I keep forgetting to make this suggestion. I think it's a really elegant solution to the problem, and could, AFAIK, be solved with a simple timestamp check when creating the lineage view. +1. Very nice suggestion. Thanks for making it. Share this post Link to post
Posted June 3, 2013 I think the bottom line is that it's really a bad idea to let one player change what's on another player's scroll without their permission. Right now, a player can do this by killing a dragon that he's already traded you an offspring of. That's annoying from a gameplay perspective-- no one likes to feel cheated-- but it's also annoying from a game MECHANICS perspective. There's absolutely no logical reason on earth why somebody ELSE killing their dragon should cause things to be rewritten on MY scroll. The simple answer is just to allow everyone to opt into rewriting their OWN scroll if a dragon in their lineage has died. That way everyone gets to make their own decision about how they want to record their own dragon's lineages. If they want to see tombstones with no ancestors for dead dragons, they can. If they want to see a normal family tree regardless of which ancestors have passed away, they can. By making it an option in the settings page for any person who wants to to "remove dead dragons from lineages" (and therefore see tombstones,) EVERYONE can look at lineages the way they find most aesthetically pleasing, and NO ONE can force another person to view their own dragon's lineage in a way they consider ugly. Where's the downside? This pretty much covers what I support, with an individual option for each affected dragon, so that people who like both deadlines in some cases and unspoiled lineages in others have what they traded for/acquired safely on their own scrolls. Share this post Link to post
Posted June 6, 2013 The point of killing dragons "nowadays" is to remove all information listed of that dragon. I realize that this isn't an integral part of the game, but it's become a part of us and we need to accept that. If someone wants to destroy a lineage, let them. It's their freedom as a player to do that. Taking this away restricts us as players, and why would anyone want that? Don't support this. Share this post Link to post
Posted June 6, 2013 I would love this. I know I have passed on many dragons I might have kept and bred otherwise because I don't like seeing dead dragons in lineages. As long as it's up to the individual player how they see the lineages of their dragons, I don't see any downside to this. Share this post Link to post
Posted June 6, 2013 I support this. When I got Tackleberry I liked that he is a descendant of Commondant Lassard, a true deadline. But someone altered his lineage, and I cannot view his entire lineage by default and likely would not have ever noticed he was a Commondant Lassard descendant (he was named after him, after all) with the tombstones there. I would like an option to keep his entire lineage view on my scroll, (and on other people's scrolls who choose to see all the ancestors) the way it originally looked when I got him. Share this post Link to post
Posted June 6, 2013 The point of killing dragons "nowadays" is to remove all information listed of that dragon. I realize that this isn't an integral part of the game, but it's become a part of us and we need to accept that. If someone wants to destroy a lineage, let them. It's their freedom as a player to do that. Taking this away restricts us as players, and why would anyone want that? Don't support this. Except that it doesn't remove that information anymore, really. It's still there, just a click away- new-style deadlined lineages will even flag inbred checkers as if the parents were still alive. If old-style deadlining is sweeping out the mess, the current version is the equivalent of sweeping it under the rug and leaving a conspicuous lump. Share this post Link to post
Posted June 6, 2013 This may have been discussed in the many pages that I am not aware of, but why was the Nilia pygmy ever chosen? I understand doing "research" because they are so curious, but they "are wary around other dragons and animals outside their breed," so why would they research other dragons beside themselves? ... Unless this has something to do with how "highly loyal" they may be to their owners that they will even defy their breed description ... ~ Just wondering Share this post Link to post
Posted June 6, 2013 (edited) The point of killing dragons "nowadays" is to remove all information listed of that dragon. I realize that this isn't an integral part of the game, but it's become a part of us and we need to accept that. If someone wants to destroy a lineage, let them. It's their freedom as a player to do that. Taking this away restricts us as players, and why would anyone want that? Don't support this. I want that because it's really not fair that I could pay someone artwork and CB Metals for a 2nd gen Holly and then have them kill the parents on me, thus forever altering the look and value of the lineage without ever compensating me for my payment (I can't take back the picture I drew for them, nor can I get back those CB Metals) Like I said with the art example before, let's say you do an art trade with someone. You send them your piece that you worked hard on. They send you theirs, but before you can save it to your computer, they delete it and say "oops, forgot I drew this for you," or, even worse, "I knew it was your rightful payment, but I just don't care." As someone who is an artist I can say that catching CB Metals is every bit as stressful and time consuming as drawing commissions. I would not draw commissions for people who could abruptly cheat me of my payment without punishment. And yet on DC right now that is exactly what people can do. Doesn't happen often, but not pleasant at all when it does. If people want to totally erase things, they can--but in the context of proper deadlines. This suggestion would allow deadlines to keep existing. It'd just stop those who are randomly snipping dragons out of lineages--a practice that, while sometimes just an accident (I forgot I bred that CB Vine to a Gold for someone, and wanted to make a Zombie, etc), often seem to be done purely out of spite. Numerous examples of this have been cropping up, from the random deaths of a CB Holly and 2nd gen Tinsels to the intentional killing of a parent of an auto abandoned Shimmer. And note that while I've used very drastic examples here, they don't need to be killing rares to really hurt; I have a 6th gen PB even gen Sunsong in which I only own one string of CB ancestors, if someone killed a 3rd gen in it I'd be really sad. People have the right to kill whatever they wish. They should not, however, have the ability to change the lineage appearance of things on other's scrolls. Edited June 6, 2013 by angelicdragonpuppy Share this post Link to post
Posted June 6, 2013 I support this. When I got Tackleberry I liked that he is a descendant of Commondant Lassard, a true deadline. But someone altered his lineage, and I cannot view his entire lineage by default and likely would not have ever noticed he was a Commondant Lassard descendant (he was named after him, after all) with the tombstones there. I would like an option to keep his entire lineage view on my scroll, (and on other people's scrolls who choose to see all the ancestors) the way it originally looked when I got him. Commondant Lassard is not a true deadline; he was a glitch; before the introduction of CB alts as prizes, he was the only CB alt black that had ever happened. But when TJ made them available as prizes, he decided that it wasn't fair on prizewinners if there were one already - so he gave him parents. No-one was killed, so no-one was really dead ! But I do agree about the conspicuous lump ! One thing I was GOING to do was breed the most inbred dragon EVAH and then kill off the inbred base of the line. Now it won't be so much fun (NB all the affected dragons ARE on my scroll.) Share this post Link to post
Posted June 6, 2013 (edited) In Lassard's case, I do think that the lineage snip was unnecessary. As far as I am aware most people knew of his existence and the selection of prizes therefore would have been informed. You'd be able to reasonably estimate the specialness of a CB Black alt, so I suppose it wasn't like the specialness was undermined or anything by a glitched other (the deadline certainly screwed up lineages, though :/). I have to say, though, I feel sorry for the owner and the people who traded for second gens. You can't really do much about the deadline, though, that was the result of admin action.. (Ironically, the incident sort of shows or at least suggests that TJ keeps our trade values/system in mind. That's one thing, I suppose, which goes for this suggestion) Edited June 6, 2013 by DarkEternity Share this post Link to post
Posted June 6, 2013 I HATE the "trade values" concept, myself. (Bangs soapbox. Capitalism doesn't work in real life either !) I just trade whatever I can turn up for whatever I want. I've offered a shimmer for a common in my time. I like it that way ! I get what I need at any given moment, and someone else ends up very happy. Share this post Link to post
Posted June 9, 2013 I HATE the "trade values" concept, myself. (Bangs soapbox. Capitalism doesn't work in real life either !) I just trade whatever I can turn up for whatever I want. I've offered a shimmer for a common in my time. I like it that way ! I get what I need at any given moment, and someone else ends up very happy. Yes, very happy until 2 weeks later someone kills a dragon on the line you traded and then through no fault of yours the person who traded with you is very unhappy for getting a very bad deal. Happened to me. Share this post Link to post
Posted June 9, 2013 I support this. When I got Tackleberry I liked that he is a descendant of Commondant Lassard, a true deadline. But someone altered his lineage, and I cannot view his entire lineage by default and likely would not have ever noticed he was a Commondant Lassard descendant (he was named after him, after all) with the tombstones there. I would like an option to keep his entire lineage view on my scroll, (and on other people's scrolls who choose to see all the ancestors) the way it originally looked when I got him. Look at your PM for a new Lassard offspring, this time a Dorkface Lassard http://dragcave.net/lineage/IRepn Share this post Link to post
Posted June 11, 2013 I think that you should be able to restore the lineage of a dragon on your own scroll. Tombstones should be the default, and any changes you make (on a dragon-by-dragon basis) should only appear on your own scroll. But let's consider the logic of what we are doing here. I have a dragon, and I have recorded its lineage. Someone who owns that dragons grandfather, kills said grandfather, cutting them off from the family tree. But I already recorded the lineage. I didn't forget just because the other owner chose to erase that part of the lineage. I should be able to view this information if I wish. Share this post Link to post
Posted June 14, 2013 Look at your PM for a new Lassard offspring, this time a Dorkface Lassard http://dragcave.net/lineage/IRepn I got your PM and thank you, Renmiri! I didn't realize you posted here! I love him and he is named already, after a wonderfully bumbling Commondant. Share this post Link to post
Posted July 25, 2013 Still hoping to see this. I think this was dropped completely because TJ changed the way that tombstones work, you already can click on tombstones and check the lineage of the dead dragons. It doesn't work to all tombstones because the data wasn't saved before the system is implemented but it's working for recently deceased dragons. Share this post Link to post
Posted July 25, 2013 I think this was dropped completely because TJ changed the way that tombstones work, you already can click on tombstones and check the lineage of the dead dragons. It doesn't work to all tombstones because the data wasn't saved before the system is implemented but it's working for recently deceased dragons. But that doesn't solve the problem at all. My 7th gen even gens will still look like crap with a random tombstone in them. People who want to hide messy dragons and make fresh lineages by killing them no longer can. Since neither side's desires have been fully addressed, I'd say what we have now isn't much of a solution. Share this post Link to post
Posted July 25, 2013 I personally suspect the dead dragons change was instigated by this topic. This problem is it doesn't help the people with ruined lineages, and it pissed off the deadliners. Share this post Link to post
Posted July 25, 2013 I personally suspect the dead dragons change was instigated by this topic. This problem is it doesn't help the people with ruined lineages, and it pissed off the deadliners. TOO RIGHT Share this post Link to post
Posted July 25, 2013 I personally suspect the dead dragons change was instigated by this topic. This problem is it doesn't help the people with ruined lineages, and it pissed off the deadliners. Yeah, I would like to have the old system back because I collect dragons with deadlines and now they are all ruined. Share this post Link to post
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