Change the Holidays

[olympe]

Maybe a beach dragon - for the people celebrating Christmas in the Southern hemisphere? (Maybe something like Bayleef or Meganium in dragon form?)

Considering Chinese New Year has been brought up for the Winter Holiday of Choice, we could also do a fireworks dragon.

Edited December 31, 2015 by olympe

[Twyro]

Maybe a beach dragon - for the people celebrating Christmas in the Southern hemisphere? (Maybe something like Bayleef or Meganium in dragon form?)

Considering Chinese New Year has been brought up for the Winter Holiday of Choice, we could also do a fireworks dragon.

Fireworks are used everywhere in the world so I think many people would bebpleased with that.

[Pokemonfan13]

To some extent, the dragon we get is based on what the prettiest dragon TJ gets sent is. If you want a *insert-other-holiday-here* dragon, team up with some epic artists and make a dragon that TJ can't say no to. Discussing wanting a more inclusive holiday isn't going to get us one, other than possibly influencing the artists submitting next year's.

 

But also, the newest winter holiday dragon doesn't look particularly like any given "holiday" to me. It looks like a gorgeous winter-essence dragon with some shiny gold on it. So that should match nicely it not being a "christmas" dragon.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Pokemonfan13

[Lythiaren]

Uh. Why CNY? It's weeks into the new solar year and is often very close to Valentine's.

 

So, despite my own heritage, I'm really wondering about the logistics of this proposal to shift the site's winter celebrations in such a way that would (in most cases) result in multiple holiday releases in the same month.

 

Because if CNY themed dragons become a norm then our options are: two holiday releases in very close proximity, or Vday goes kaput, or it will be really, really weird getting a holiday launch nowhere near when the associated holiday actually happens.

 

Unless I'm missing something.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Lythiaren

[Natayah]

TJ has released CNY dragons before. Or did events around them. He found some dragons that kinda fit that theme and they were January's or whatnots release. Now, I mean it doesn't happen every year, but TJ does seem to try when he can find dragons that fit the theme and go for it during that month. So... CNY has been celebrated and generally eastern or dragons with that color or related theme do get released during that time. But its a Monthly release, not a "holiday dragon" release.

[Rosedamai]

TJ has released CNY dragons before. Or did events around them. He found some dragons that kinda fit that theme and they were January's or whatnots release. Now, I mean it doesn't happen every year, but TJ does seem to try when he can find dragons that fit the theme and go for it during that month. So... CNY has been celebrated and generally eastern or dragons with that color or related theme do get released during that time. But its a Monthly release, not a "holiday dragon" release.

I'm with Lyth here, it's actually closer to the start of February than January and even if there was a precedent that doesnt mean that it was in line with the actual holiday itself, which I feel defeats the purpose

 

generic new year dragons would be fine imho

 

Eta: I would love a candle themed dragon for Christmas-fits with most Winterholidays and such.

Edited December 31, 2015 by ylangylang

[Pokemonfan13]

But I do object to actual religious objects being incorporated into a dragon. The closest thing to a christian object in dragcave is the Vampire's cross (egg and adult tail), and that's more of an anti-religion thing, since in vampire lore they are repelled by a cross. The xmas dragons have nothing more than:

- The colors red, green, and gold

- Holly leaves

- Candy-cane design

- Feathered wings (probably the closest actual christian thing, but feathered wings are also a legit dragon design element)

- Ribbons

- Wrapping paper

- Mistletoe

 

None of the dragons have a design that can be called christian, and the vast majority of the design elements are only tangentially related to christmas. I do not believe we should ever have a "menorah" dragon as some people have advocated in this thread. That is swinging things too far the other way. Colors, sure. Aspects similar in nature to the ones that I've listed, sure. But not actual religious objects. I don't know the other applicable religions well enough to suggest tangential elements that would be appropriate, however. I'm an atheist who grew up in a christian home, so xmas elements are all I'm familiar with.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Pokemonfan13

[Rosedamai]

But I do object to actual religious objects being incorporated into a dragon. The closest thing to a christian object in dragcave is the Vampire's cross (egg and adult tail), and that's more of an anti-religion thing, since in vampire lore they are repelled by a cross. The xmas dragons have nothing more than:

- The colors red, green, and gold

- Holly leaves

- Candy-cane design

- Feathered wings (probably the closest actual christian thing, but feathered wings are also a legit dragon design element)

- Ribbons

- Wrapping paper

- Mistletoe

 

None of the dragons have a design that can be called christian, and the vast majority of the design elements are only tangentially related to christmas. I do not believe we should ever have a "menorah" dragon as some people have advocated in this thread. That is swinging things too far the other way. Colors, sure. Aspects similar in nature to the ones that I've listed, sure. But not actual religious objects.

Oh I didnt mean like a specific Menorah dragon-I was thinking more of candles being used to light the darkness of the winter solstice and all that. Sorry abt that though.

[Pokemonfan13]

Sorry if it looked like I was replying to you. I started typing it up before you even posted. Candles in a generic way might be an interesting design element, although "magically burning antlers" are probably how they would end up being done. x3

Edited December 31, 2015 by Pokemonfan13

[Rosedamai]

Sorry if it looked like I was replying to you. I started typing it up before you even posted. Candles in a generic way might be an interesting design element, although "magically burning antlers" are probably how they would end up being done. x3

Ooh! I was thinking more about Charizards and how they have a little flame at the end of their tail, with waxy wings and small flames lighting up the spikes on their spine.

 

Anyways, I really do like the fact that the more recent dragons have been more secular as of late. The Aegis dragons are amazing & are my favorite.

[Lythiaren]

I'm with Lyth here, it's actually closer to the start of February than January and even if there was a precedent that doesnt mean that it was in line with the actual holiday itself, which I feel defeats the purpose

^ Yes, this. Easterns launching occasionally in January doesn't mean it's recognizing the lunar new year, and it certainly doesn't designate them as holiday dragons since they breed true year-round. A plain old release, themed or not, means nothing in the context of "holiday events" regardless of timing. Easter doesn't have associated dragons, but it is considered a DC holiday event because it has the annual egg hunt. CNY sometimes has a release sometime near it and no event or onsite recognition at all. It's not a DC-recognized holiday at this time.

 

The new year shifts around according to moon phases, and usually lands in early-mid February. Which, inconveniently, happens to be where Valentine's Day lives. I'm not a huge fan of running two events concurrently or in that kind of quick succession, but ditching one in favour of another basically means the users get one less holiday launch in a year. To say nothing of trying to plan that, even in split teams.

 

Well, unless we pick some other wintertime holiday or stick with what we've been doing this whole time.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Lythiaren

[Fuzzbucket]

I'm all for a Dec 25th base for the event - as MOST businesses etc tend to give time off around that, and also that way we ALL know when to plan for it. But special festival dragons of any sort float my boat. Fireworks are good, LIGHT is good (and bikinis - but PLEASE no mankinis for the other side of the world ). Candles too. But I can see why not to reference any specific religion. CULTURE, now, is something else. Thanks about Kwanzaa - I had no idea. Now I do. Daft idea, then ! But everywhere it is a solstice, so surely that one is legit. The stars are agnostic, as far as I know....

[High Lord November]

I don't think we should try to change the definition of the holiday dragons any further. I consider Christmas to be a secular holiday, as do many, and it's a time of year to get with with family and friends and spend time and joy together. That can apply to many holidays around the winter time. It also has to do with the site being based in a region where Christmas is the dominant holiday around that time, and it is OK to have defining characteristics based on those factors. It isn't bad or mean. The dragons have not been religious-themed at all and the sprites depend on the artist and what they feel like doing, which is probably what is most familiar to them; if you would like a dragon with a different kind of holiday theme, then make one or suggest a concept (of course, as long as it isn't religious-themed). Candles etc. would be cool, but I really can't see changing the date.

Edited December 31, 2015 by High Lord November

[Zeditha]

I can see the point of this suggestion; the description does specifically state that it's a CHRISTMAS dragon, and the event is specifically a CHRISTMAS event. While I normally overlook these things, thinking about it, it does seem to exclude other cultures.

 

Nothing in DC would fundamentally have to be changed to be more open and accepting. The one and only thing that would need to be changed is that one word.

 

Many people say that Christmas has become a secular holiday. To some degree that's true; the tradition of a tree and presents has become a widely-accepted fun diversion to celebrate the passing of the darkness. As an atheist, I still celebrate the holiday with the traditions normal in our culture. But the word itself is most certainly NOT secular. It is literally a mass to celebrate Christ - Christ's mass. Very specific.

 

Therefore, while basing the event and dragons off the 'christmas' traditions is perfectly fine as they have become secular, using the word Christmas is just as open to other cultures, just as secular, as using figures of Christ and his birth in the sprites would be.

 

I'm all in favour of changing or removing that one word. It shouldn't take a lot of work, it wouldn't remove anything significant from the site, and it would make DC a more welcoming, culturally open place.

[Fuzzbucket]

I can see the point of this suggestion; the description does specifically state that it's a CHRISTMAS dragon, and the event is specifically a CHRISTMAS event.

WHERE does it say that ? I don't see it. Because it doesn't.

[High Lord November]

Holiday dragons are a very mysterious breed. They are only seen during winter, and even then it is hard to catch a glimpse of one. They are responsible for the general cheer that spreads during the holidays. In essence, they are the “Spirits of Winter.”

 

I believe the description is fine as-is and not much else needs to change. It is already very inclusive and general, and I don't understand what needs to be changed further.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

The word is already gone, the witch hunt can end now. The events and dragons have been more winter than Christmas for years now also.

 

I still find the change of a word to be more inclusive silly, though. Not everyone (heck, not most people, world wide) celebrate Halloween or Valentines, but no one's whining about changing those to more generic names. It's just Christmas that gets people in a tizzy. Never mind that there are still people who celebrate Halloween in a religious way, too, but I guess non-Christian things aren't worth getting upset over? XP

[Isuzu]

WHERE does it say that ? I don't see it. Because it doesn't.

I actually went through the news section and peeked at past holidays and can second this. They are always referred to as Holiday events, the dragons are released with a "Happy Holidays" and their descriptions don't ever mention the word Christmas.

It's us the users who refer to the event as the Christmas event and the dragons as Christmas dragons.

[Fuzzbucket]

The word is already gone, the witch hunt can end now. The events and dragons have been more winter than Christmas for years now also.

 

I still find the change of a word to be more inclusive silly, though. Not everyone (heck, not most people, world wide) celebrate Halloween or Valentines, but no one's whining about changing those to more generic names. It's just Christmas that gets people in a tizzy. Never mind that there are still people who celebrate Halloween in a religious way, too, but I guess non-Christian things aren't worth getting upset over? XP

I think it's more a matter of non-RELIGIOUS things.. Let's face it - so many of the biggest wars in history have bene religion based, and there is so much religious discrimination. No-one (AFAIK) discriminates against Valentine's Day, and only those who feel Hallowe'en ties into the devil about that - and the latter come from a wide range of religions.

 

I and many MANY other players here, I'm sure, were brought up with the birth of Christ (yes on the wrong day but so what) and the star and the nativity plays, and fighting to be TOP angel with the BEST halo, or at LEAST the Wise man with the GOLD, who wants MYRRH no WAY and all the rest as the ESSENTIAL side of Christmas - and actually, even as a non-Christian myself, I would rather see that than the relentless commercialism we seem to have developed instead. THAT I find frankly depressing, much worse than the let's don't offend anyone stuff.

 

AS an aside, in the UK, several municipalities decided to celebrate the Winter Festival instead of Christmas. The local Muslims, who were supposed to be the potentially offended people, were completely baffled. Their kids were being angels and the rest in nativity plays. In this regard, I quote from a non-religious mate in Turkey:

 

On Sunday morning I will be attending Mass at Mary's house (by tradition the last resting place of the Virgin Mary), and in the afternoon I will be rehearsing for the Christmas panto (I am playing the Evil Queen), in which many Turkish Muslim Parents & Children are also involved. Because it is so close to Christmas, everyone is taking a plate of goodies for an after rehearsal party. I am taking 'faux' sausage rolls and pork pies. I say 'faux' because, as there will be many Muslims there, they won't contain any pork, but my own 'secret' mixture of minced chicken, breadcrumbs, herbs and spices. There is a pork shop here, and I will be making real pork pies nearer to Christmas for the non-muslim ex-pats who want to buy them. The local council has put up a christmas tree and is organizing this years (as they do every year) Christmas party, which includes loads of free food, mulled wine, a nativity (involving both local ex-pat and turkish muslim children) with a father Christmas giving out presents, and a band, that every year attracts hundreds of local (muslim) residents to the party on the sea-front.

 

This is how it all should be. Please can't we do it like this too ?

[cyradis4]

My view is simple:

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

 

TJ celebrates Christmas. TJ is the site owner. If TJ wants to share the celebration of the holidays HE celebrates with us, I view that as his prerogative as site owner. If TJ celebrated Hanukkah, I'd be delighted to help him celebrate it on the site by whatever means he chose. Same with any other Holiday he chose to share, be it however far divorced from my own traditions.

 

Just as I would expect to have to type in Japanese on a Japanese site, or celebrate their traditions. Holiday celebrations are NOT a "right" to the userbase. They are a GIFT from the site owner to the userbase.

 

Tolerance is a two way street, people. You are demanding that TJ respect all of your very diverse views. How about showing him the same respect, and respecting his views and his decision to celebrate the Holiday of HIS choosing on HIS site, that he puts his money and time into?

 

When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Let us celebrate with TJ what he celebrates, without the hand wrangling and demands for change.

 

Cheers!

C4.

 

PS: if you want a Hanukkah dragon or a Kwanzaa dragon or any other dragon, write your own concept for it and find a really good spriter and submit it. TJ can't release something that's not submitted, and remember: the Holiday sprites tend to be the best of the best.

[olympe]

My view is simple:

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

 

TJ celebrates Christmas. TJ is the site owner. If TJ wants to share the celebration of the holidays HE celebrates with us, I view that as his prerogative as site owner. If TJ celebrated Hanukkah, I'd be delighted to help him celebrate it on the site by whatever means he chose. Same with any other Holiday he chose to share, be it however far divorced from my own traditions.

 

Just as I would expect to have to type in Japanese on a Japanese site, or celebrate their traditions. Holiday celebrations are NOT a "right" to the userbase. They are a GIFT from the site owner to the userbase.

 

Tolerance is a two way street, people. You are demanding that TJ respect all of your very diverse views. How about showing him the same respect, and respecting his views and his decision to celebrate the Holiday of HIS choosing on HIS site, that he puts his money and time into?

 

When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Let us celebrate with TJ what he celebrates, without the hand wrangling and demands for change.

 

Cheers!

C4.

 

PS: if you want a Hanukkah dragon or a Kwanzaa dragon or any other dragon, write your own concept for it and find a really good spriter and submit it. TJ can't release something that's not submitted, and remember: the Holiday sprites tend to be the best of the best.

*applauds* Very well put, very well put indeed.

[purplehaze]

Riverwillows said it so much better than I ever could in the News forum: https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showt...dpost&p=9072542

[Laura-Borealis]

WHERE does it say that ? I don't see it. Because it doesn't.

The wiki refers to them all as Christmas Dragons, but I don't know who edits that, or if it's always said that.

[Lythiaren]

The wiki refers to them all as Christmas Dragons, but I don't know who edits that, or if it's always said that.

The wiki is not an official part of DC.

[Laura-Borealis]

The wiki is not an official part of DC.

Yes, but that might be what Zeditha was referring to.