DC Gold

[Dark-Azkrin666]

So, you say that people who raise rare dragons should get more of a reward than people who raise common dragons? Not only do they get the rare dragons to begin with, but also more gold to buy more?

 

Seriously, if it got implemented, it should be the other way round, where rare dragons (metallics, tinsels) don't get you any gold and cave blockers get you the most.

 

But I bet a lot of people would disagree with that, and a lot of other people would agree. In the end, it's just another roadblock that has to be taken out of the way if an currency system is implemented.

Just because a gold dragon would be worth more at the start doesn't mean that you cant get a common dragon to be worth more then the gold. There is a reason why I mentioned lineages. If a person had a 100th pure gen Water Walker. That would certainly worth quite a bit.

[Rosedamai]

Just because a gold dragon would be worth more at the start doesn't mean that you cant get a common dragon to be worth more then the gold. There is a reason why I mentioned lineages. If a person had a 100th pure gen Water Walker. That would certainly worth quite a bit.

The problem I have with coding dragons to a specific value is this: people have different value sets on different dragons. you mentioned that a 100th pure gen water walker would be worth quite a bit. For me it would be worth nothing because I already have a water walker.

 

So some of the dragons would be viewed as overpriced, some as underpriced, and so on.

 

Values are subjective. Let's leave it at that.

[Fuzzbucket]

Just because a gold dragon would be worth more at the start doesn't mean that you cant get a common dragon to be worth more then the gold. There is a reason why I mentioned lineages. If a person had a 100th pure gen Water Walker. That would certainly worth quite a bit.

You'd have to have been playing for QUITE a while to get such a thing - another *riches for them who hath already* thing.

 

But even so - common CB eggs and hatchies - even cave blockers -are worth way more to some people than to others. It will always be so. So there's no realistic way to price anything.

[Moonlightelf]

While the suggestion is well worded, I must say no. Even if there were a proper money-sink to get the money out of circulation. Not to mention that this would alter the playing styles people have.

 

The interest and fascination on DC as a game for most people is the time it takes you to play the game per day. In fact, even the busiest people can play without consuming huge amount of time.

 

So you want a egg? No problem, you just go and grab something you want, put them into hatchery and you're done until it hatches. You can just check the things you're growing to make sure that they are alright and won't be dying.

So didn't find egg you wanted? No problem, you just take a look at what you could breed and breed the dragons. Doesn't take that long if you have only specific dragons you breed. And you can also look at the forum's gifting and depature threads.

Breeding didn't bring good results? "Well okay, I don't need to grow something all the time" or "Oh, I don't need this egg. But maybe someone else wants it, so I just abandon it".

 

So depending on person, they can spend time from 10-30 minutes up to hours to get things they want. And they can choose not to grow anything until finding something nice. And DC isn't taking more time than person chooses to.

 

 

Now lets add the dreaded economy into the game.

Gold or any other form of money will always take time to collect. Some people don't have time to get all that gold, even if they wanted to trade with others with the money. And by the time they have gotten the money, in most of the cases the price of the egg they wanted from the person has increased. Why? Most likely because the egg/hatchling they desire may be rare or wanted (un)common.

 

The ways of getting money? Lets get a look at some ways...

Clicking others' dragons

Pros: People's dragons get views they need. A good way to make money and same time you're helping the community's dragons to hatch/mature/grow up.

Cons: It takes time, no matter where you do it. For someone, whose connection isn't that good, it takes even longer time. And some people choose not to click others' dragons for one reason or another.

Collecting commons

Pros: Ratios will get better and rares would be possible to get. Sweet. And it would get those blockers out too.

Cons: Except that this would disturb people's playing style A LOT. Some have certain goals for breeds and once they are done with them, they don't collect more. And when someone like this wants gold, but doesn't want to collect more commons than they already have... You guessed it, they'll be outside the economy, because they can't aquire any of the gold. So they would have to alter way of playing to get the money, which is really annoying thing to do.

Quests and minigames

Pros: Gives something to do aside the collecting and waiting.

Cons: They consume time. Not to mention that it would go towards... you guess it, becoming petsite like Neopets or something else...

 

Setting cap to how much money you can have is as frustrating as the small rupee bag that you start with in Zelda games. Never enough money, and some dragons would be more valuable than you can have money. Not to mention that this opens opportunity to scammers.

 

Surely, if the economy had some sort of actual use outside the trading, then it would be a different matter. A dragon that is unbreedable and can be gained only if you have enough gold? Now that would be a great money-sink!

Oh, but we forgot one thing:

Spontanious creation of eggs is something TJ's never going to implement, GoN being the only exception!

Therefore, I still don't see reason for implementing DC Gold.

[Slaskia]

*stamps a big fat 'NO' on this idea*

 

Right now DC is just a collection site, with the intention of it being not like the numerous pet sites out there. Putting in something like this, would fundamentially change the site, as it would no longer simply be a collection site.

 

That and you would need some kind of money sink to help stave off inflation of prices. What is a money sink? A means to remove money from the system (as opposed to it just changing hands): otherwise the system would keep adding more and more money into the economy with no where for it to go, leading to inflation of prices.

 

And as other folks have said, figuring out the worth of each dragon would be a headache itself. Between CB/bred, time left, blocker or not, rare/uncom/common, that's a lot of varible to take into consideration.

 

If you ask me, I'd rather keep it simple, as it is now.

[Dark-Azkrin666]

You'd have to have been playing for QUITE a while to get such a thing - another *riches for them who hath already* thing.

 

But even so - common CB eggs and hatchies - even cave blockers -are worth way more to some people than to others. It will always be so. So there's no realistic way to price anything.

Well then allow me to ask you a simple question. I don't want a long answer to this response please.

 

If the majority doesn't want x but the minority still want x does that means the majority rules out the minority?

 

 

[Cinnamin Draconna]

I support this idea.

 

So it changes the game.. maybe the game needs changing. I've been here for years longer than many and the game rarely changes. It's to the point now that I find the game BORING. I'd like to see some changes that actually make the game more interesting.

 

I don't see how trading with gold will be any more inflationary than trading eggs/hatchlings. Folk already want way too much for things with perceived value, and the 7 day time limit just makes things worse. As things stand now, anyone who can create a Neglected pretty much rules the trading forum. Yes, Neglecteds are rare and valuable, but it shouldn't take one months to pay off a debt with no guarantee that the deal will go thru in the end.

 

Games that don't change with the times wither and die. TJ wants to make DC his real life job, or at least a part time job that actually brings in money. He wants to do this without making it a pay to play site, and to do that he will need to listen to his customer base (the players) and keep the game interesting. That will probably mean CHANGES, and they should be made for the majority of the player base and not for a vocal minority that is stuck in a rut like a broken record.

 

Folk must want things to change tho, otherwise there wouldn't be so many suggestions in the suggestions forum. And I think TJ should listen and make changes that make the game more interesting. With online games growing in popularity daily, games that never change will not grow their customer base, and without new customers a game stagnates until it is no longer sensible to keep it going.

 

Oh, and as for the RP standpoint, that's easy to fix... MAGIC. Anything is possible with magic. And since the majority of players don't RP, making the game suffer because of it is not worth it in the long run. We're talking about a bunch of little pixel graphics that are not real.. dragons aren't real either.. and trying to make everything realistic is about as logical as poking holes in a cup that you're trying to drink out of. A magical explanation for new changes is all that is needed, and as long as it sounds semi-logical, most players will be able to accept it and enjoy it.. especially if it makes the game better. Games are supposed to be FUN.. something that helps you escape reality for a little while and relax.. denying changes that will make the game more fun for the majority is pure selfishness.

[Firebirdwyvern]

Maybe points can be given any time you breed a rare or make a successful Neglected. Points that can put in a badge to make you feel prideful...

 

Doesn't make sense. But I don't like thinking of dragons of money or profit, they aren't that and why should we treat them like that? It can cause problems in the long run.

 

People might neglect their dragons in order to get the dragons, and too many clicks could kill eggs (especially during holidays), people would be dumping or killing dragons just to get something to be worth.

 

But it can be bad. a Example.

 

You have a finely lineaged Silver egg. Two people want it, one person needs it to complete their scroll or build a fine lineage. Then there's the other person.

 

Person B gives you the gold for it, but then they turn it into a neglected, or sell it to another person...pretty soon you get the idea and poor Person A now doesn't have a egg for a dragon they might of wanted.

 

It's taking unfairness to a new level.

[Fuzzbucket]

Well then allow me to ask you a simple question. I don't want a long answer to this response please.

 

If the majority doesn't want x but the minority still want x does that means the majority rules out the minority?

That's the way elections work, after all.

 

If a LARGE majority playing don't want this, yes, I would say that would be fair enough. That's the way with most things in life.

 

We could use a poll.

 

ETA @ Cinnamin - where is your evidence that people are losing interest and want the whole game to change. Little things - changes to the action log, more hybrids etc - don't change the whole nature of the game. This would.

Edited November 3, 2012 by fuzzbucket

[Dark-Azkrin666]

That's the way elections work, after all.

 

If a LARGE majority playing don't want this, yes, I would say that would be fair enough. That's the way with most things in life.

Well then allow me to respond in kind.

 

If indeed you are the majority and this is still implemented then what is stopping you from not using it. If you are the majority then you wont be using it but the minority still gets to use it.

[Cefie]

..I think I kind of support this idea.

It would certainly be a change.

[AngelKitty]

Nope nope nope. I rarely have fun with games that have currency, and if I do, it's only for a short while. OTOH, even when I get frustrated by or bored of DC and go on hiatus for a few months, I always come back. Always. A game that can keep my ADD-riddled brain entertained for nearly four years, without any radical changes, is a pretty good game, IMO. The game is simple and fun and does not need a drastic change like this to make it more fun.

 

If a gold system were implemented, I'd be one of those who made all of my trades no-gold-accepted. And if gold became a big thing, I'd probably end up leaving forever.

 

And anyway, why do we need a system to make rares easier to get for newbies? They're RARES, they're HARD TO GET by definition. It seems like a lot of the new players want to ignore the commons and only get rares nowadays. That's not how it was when I joined - as a new player, I collected commons. I tried for rares for a few months, and was disappointed when I couldn't get them, and I didn't know if I would ever get one. But when I finally did get one from the departure thread (a huge-messy-lineaged gold, which I still have) it was a joyous occasion that brightened up my entire week. It would have meant a lot less if all I had to do was save up some virtual currency for a few weeks and simply buy it.

[Fuzzbucket]

Well then allow me to respond in kind.

 

If indeed you are the majority and this is still implemented then what is stopping you from not using it. If you are the majority then you wont be using it but the minority still gets to use it.

I have no idea if I am in a majority here. That's why I asked for a poll.

 

I would not use it, no. So in that sense, no, it wouldn't affect me.

 

But it WILL change the whole trading system if even a quarter of players start to use it, and it WILL bring in a greed aspect that isn't there now, as well as a nightmare of valuing and revaluing things and so on. Who IS going to do all that - given that we are not going to be told what the ratios are and so on and that TJ has said over and over that they are primarily dictated by what we pick up/breed ? And that different dragons are worth quite different amounts to different people ? Who is going to"police" all this stuff ?

 

It will directly affect every last player because of a value-setting side that simply isn't there now in any definable way.

 

I also agree with angelkitty about the less exciting side of just saving up to buy something over catching it (who'd drop good things if they could get GOLD for them, either ? People who didn't want to use gold would lose out there too. Because I've no doubt at all that those using gold would still be in the AP and the biomes, grabbing away.)

Edited November 3, 2012 by fuzzbucket

[Firebirdwyvern]

I was one of the few, my DC mentor gave me my first Magma egg then I just went with the other eggs until I recieved...I forgot it's so long ago now

[Cinnamin Draconna]

ETA @ Cinnamin - where is your evidence that people are losing interest and want the whole game to change. Little things - changes to the action log, more hybrids etc - don't change the whole nature of the game. This would.

Look at who the active players are... mostly newbies.

Look at all the older players who have disappeared.

Look at who the suggestions are coming from.. mostly newbies.

 

I don't know the numbers, but I'd guess that many of the newbies won't stay around long either. Why? Because the few but active older players are constantly shutting down any idea to change the game.

 

Anything that isn't willing to change and grow is likely to stagnate and die. Sure the game is constantly getting new players, but how many of them are actually staying around? I was part of the Mentoring project for a while, but I quit.. because the majority of my mentees didn't hang around for more than a few days.

 

Sometimes I think about quitting this game, and the only reason I haven't is because it's one of the few truly free games. But I still get bored because there's nothing to do and no sign of anything changing. The only thing left to keep me interested is a new release. Breeding results are so bad, it isn't worth wasting my time to breed. Which also makes trading pretty much impossible, because I can't breed anything worth trading and the only caveborns anyone wants are rares, which are hard to catch.

 

So what's left to do? Nothing, except catch and grow more caveborn commons. If a diehard player like me is so bored that I'm considering quitting, don't you think SOMETHING needs to change?

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Well then allow me to ask you a simple question. I don't want a long answer to this response please.

 

If the majority doesn't want x but the minority still want x does that means the majority rules out the minority?

Ummm... yes? What if ten people in DC wanted every player to get a free CB Gold and everyone else didn't because it would mangle the rarity system? Should the minority have the right to overrule the rest?

 

There's a difference between protecting the rights of a minority and letting the minority boss the majority around. If you go with something that pleases the minority but hurts the majority, you are causing more harm than good. That's a problem.

 

Let's look at two examples: a majority of older players wanting only people who've been playing for two years or longer to be able to get golds, and the majority of players not wanting free CB metals to be handed out. The former gives a bonus to the majority at the expense of the minority and is thus unfair. The latter idea, however, treats everyone equally and thus can be decided for or against by the majority, because it's not helping them at the expense of the minority.

 

A currency system affects everyone equally and thus the same concepts apply as do in the free CB Gold example.

Edited November 3, 2012 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Firebirdwyvern]

I don't know. To me It just seems wrong. What's wrong with just the dragons being the price?

 

Getting my Gold dragon was hard work (a golden wyvern can always be useful).

 

I don't seem really any need for currency. The price is set by the dragon and how much you want it, combined with the availibilities of the eggs or hatchlings in your pocession.

 

I want a Neglected hatchling and a Holly to complete my scroll, but using money won't help since Neglected science it a risky thing and Hollies are very limited...

 

Not all the dragons can be predicted the response

[Fuzzbucket]

I don't know. To me It just seems wrong. What's wrong with just the dragons being the price?

QFT

 

I am all for many of the suggestions that have been and are being made.

 

But really not this one.

 

And Cinnamin - you can make amazing lineages - that's something still to do that NEVER goes away !

[HeatherMarie]

Look at who the active players are... mostly newbies.

Look at all the older players who have disappeared.

Look at who the suggestions are coming from.. mostly newbies.

Where do you get this from? I see just as many "older players" here on the forum as newbies. Newbies post lots of suggestions, sure, because they aren't used to DC yet and want to change things to suit their own needs. That doesn't somehow mean that there are less older players around. And I could just as easily say that tons and tons of newbies "lose interest" and stop playing, just like the older players that you mention. Tons of users make an account, can't get the hang of raising dragons, and quit.

[Fuzzbucket]

Newbies post lots of suggestions, sure, because they aren't used to DC yet and want to change things to suit their own needs.

This is VERY true - and they they quite often post something like "Oh THAT'S how it works - I had no idea; not needed then."

[olympe]

Well then allow me to respond in kind.

 

If indeed you are the majority and this is still implemented then what is stopping you from not using it. If you are the majority then you wont be using it but the minority still gets to use it.

Well, more response in kind:

 

If this is implemented against the wish of a (probably) big majority, what makes us stop leaving DC?

 

Sometimes I think about quitting this game, and the only reason I haven't is because it's one of the few truly free games. But I still get bored because there's nothing to do and no sign of anything changing. The only thing left to keep me interested is a new release. Breeding results are so bad, it isn't worth wasting my time to breed. Which also makes trading pretty much impossible, because I can't breed anything worth trading and the only caveborns anyone wants are rares, which are hard to catch.

 

So what's left to do? Nothing, except catch and grow more caveborn commons. If a diehard player like me is so bored that I'm considering quitting, don't you think SOMETHING needs to change?

Well, something - but that does not imply that we need some kind of currency NAO. Currency won't give you a better chance at catching rares. It won't give you a better chance at breeding them, either. It won't increase the number of new releases. All it changes is that you can raise more blockers and try to sell them for low amounts of currency in the hope of getting enough saved up to "buy" a dragon you really want.

[Firebirdwyvern]

*scratches head* Um what exactly do you mean Fuzzbucket?

[olympe]

I'm not fuzz, but think that I know exactly what she means. It's like this: Someone is new and thinks that some cool new feature would be great for DC. Maybe they know this feature from somewhere else, maybe they just came up with it by themselves, whichever. However, newbies don't usually know why things on DC are the way they are, and why including their feature might be not such a good idea, after all. Quite often, it also happens that a newbie asks for a feature that we either have or will never have, like safe trading or random acts of spontaneous egg creation.

[Dark-Azkrin666]

Well, more response in kind:

 

If this is implemented against the wish of a (probably) big majority, what makes us stop leaving DC?

Nothing at all. If you leave because of something that's implemented that you wouldn't be using at all then that's perfectly fine.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

And Cinnamin - you can make amazing lineages - that's something still to do that NEVER goes away !

Not when breeding results are so bad that you go months without getting an egg to continue the lineage.

 

I LIKE the idea of having gold to trade with. Maybe then I could actually get 'something' other than 'no eggs' or 'no interest'. Maybe then I could actually get eggs to continue my lineages.. because I sure as heck can't breed them, and caveborn or 2nd gen stripes aren't easy to come by. I've already traded with most of the other stripe breeders, so I don't need anymore eggs from them.. I new new blood, so I can avoid inbreeding.

 

And don't even mention golds/silvers, caveborn or otherwise. I can't trade for them, because all anyone wants are Hollies or Neglecteds. And I can't breed them, because the ratios are out of whack (as usual).

 

This game needs CHANGE.. lots of change.. because it's so old it's wearing out.