Re-Event

[Atalante]

I agree with Lyth.

 

I just doesn't make sense. You weren't there on the past events, you don't get the special things that were released then. Too bad.

 

Yes, I'm sad I only have two sections of Easter eggs on my scroll. Oh well.

 

However I'm even sadder that I don't have Frills or Old Pinks. Life goes on.

 

And I'm extremely sad that I'll never have a CB Rosebud. It won't kill me however.

 

I wasn't here when those things happened, seems more than fair that I don't get to have them.

 

So my opinion is pretty much this

no one's going to go find last year's recipe just to stroke their sense of self-entitlement and inability to grasp the concept of "I missed out".

x1000 times

 

(yes, I do realize this is about some past events and not the dragons involved in them, I just threw the OP/Frill/Rosebud examples there to illustrate my point further)

Edited August 6, 2012 by becrux

[Fuzzbucket]

The problem with the cupcake analogy is that they're not just your images. It's not just your event. Birthdays are all about you; site-wide events are not.

Artists have rights over their dragons - or I WOULD HAVE AN OLD PINK BY NOW

 

Why not also over their doodads ? The ART is THEIRS. And over the events that they slaved to host ? IF this happened and given that many spriters and hosts don't like the idea - the events might no longer happen at all, as they'd not want to be involved any more.

 

I wouldn't be happy about the drama, sure, but I would be even more unhappy to see these fun events stop dead because we had made demands about reviving them for people who missed them. It works as it is; a block image of past things on a scroll might be one solution, or if not let it go.

 

And as someone said - some of us don't manage to complete a challenge (I had to get help from my grandson one time as I am a bit thick; he loved telling me what to do ...) - do they get the bits we missed afterwards too ? Then what was the point of the challenge ? That isn't even about people who missed stuff altogether.

 

Oh and by the way I failed an exam once. I never did get the qualification I was after, as the opportunity to do so in that particular way ended; it was - hey wow - TIME LIMITED !! - and is no longer available to anyone. I was gutted. But THAT'S LIFE.

Edited August 6, 2012 by fuzzbucket

[Lythiaren]

Another thing with people being able to pick everything up with the push of a button is... well, I'll illustrate with a WoW example.

 

Last Easter, they added a mount to the event rewards. They cost 500 chocolate eggs, which you could only get from, well, eggs. Since it was set up like a good old egg hunt, people ran circuits around the starting towns hunting eggs for the mount. Sometimes those eggs didn't contain chocolate eggs, but some event item instead, like bunny ears or, in rare cases, the mount itself. After I reached about 400 eggs, I started hoping I wouldn't get the mount in any of those eggs, because I was getting awfully close to being able to just buy one. I did eventually reach 500, and then I turned it in and decided I never wanted to do that again. Shortly afterward, someone else got his on egg #498. The rage in general chat that day was extraordinary.

 

He just went (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ because what the heck did he do all that work for, only to get the mount on his third-to-last egg. Now he had 497 chocolate eggs and nothing to spend them on, and he'd wasted some 10 hours of his life running in circles around a town in a video game, for a mount that just appeared in his bag right before the very end. He felt that all that work had been for nothing because it just showed up out of the blue and all of his eggs were now totally useless. I'm willing to bet he nicknamed that mount Trollface.

 

Same concept applies pretty directly to event doodads. How would you feel if you did all the work and then, just as you're about to finish, you come across the magic "finish everything" button for everything you'd missed in years previous? Would you not feel cheapened? Why do the challenge when all the work gets done for you at the push of a button next year? You can just go paint eggs or eat discount chocolate instead. Or on Halloween, getting the entire Haunted House inventory with the push of a button and going back to sorting your loot without ever knowing there was a dragon spirit trapped in the basement or that you get to brutally maim a vine dragon in mortal combat in the garden. If people wanted to just skip the entire game we'd set up for them, why should we even bother making these games?

Edited August 6, 2012 by Lythiaren

[Fuzzbucket]

See what I mean ? We stand to lose the people that MAKE these games for us.

 

And fair enough - they DON'T HAVE TO DO THIS FOR US and we are very lucky that they do.

[Lythiaren]

To be fair, fuzz, I think it's just me and DS talking a lot in here.

/shootingselfinfoot

Edited August 6, 2012 by Lythiaren

[fainewebbe]

I have an undecorated wreath on my scroll that annoys the heck out of me. I didn't know what events were at the time and didn't realize what I had to do to with it. But I sucked it up and moved on. It wouldn't be fair of me now to have it decorated now since I didn't complete the event. I know how much it sucks not having all the badges or having incomplete ones, but it's a game, and games have prizes. Not everyone can get those prizes, but there are always other ones to be had. You can't always get everything you want, and the game shouldn't be tailored otherwise. If it is, badges and dragons would be completely devoid of any value since everyone could get whatever they wanted whenever they wanted. Then, what's the point?

 

 

 

 

[Dolphinsong]

I'm pretty sure I've specifically seen you, on several occasions, argue that this is not a Pokemon site and just because a Pokemon site, such as GPX, does something, doesn't mean we should. Why is it that you're now using Pokemon as an excuse to /not/ re-release? As you've pointed out in the past, we aren't Pokemon, nor are we a Pokemon site. There's no reason we should be bound by their rules.

 

That was in responce to another bringing up about Pokemon, not because it is a handy example.

[Fuzzbucket]

To be fair, fuzz, I think it's just me and DS talking a lot in here.

/shootingselfinfoot

But you do a lot, and I want you to carry on doing. And - well, give me my Old Pink (and a couple more CB frills actually...) and the qualification I missed because it was time limited and MAYBE I will OK getting the past reincarnated . (*takes arrow out of Lyth's foot, and applies disinfectant*)

 

AS for Pokemon - if I wanted to play that, that's where I would be. I'm not and I don't. I don't see the relevance of it as anything other than a passing example. I tried a site growing flowers once. I don't want to see their rules here either. I think all my flowers died... I don't even remember where they are !

[Obscure_Trash]

The event is done and gone, and the event doodads are not souvenirs, but memories.

 

If sprites we collected disappeared and were truly only available through memory, I'd agree with this. One could argue they're just pictures - but so are dragons. We can't actually hold anything on the scroll, so I don't really see why dragons should be 'souvenirs', if you will, but holiday sprites are memories.

 

If you want another analogy, say I baked special unique mini cupcakes every year on my birthday, and changed the recipe every year so I'd only ever make any given kind once, ever. If someone misses one, I'm not going to fire up my oven the next year to make the one they missed just for them. It completely defeats the point of unique birthday cupcake day.

 

Actually I don't want any analogies. x3 No analogy can perfectly explain any situation and it'd be better to stay away from them, unless someone is confused about something and an analogy would work. However, I do understand what you're saying - I just don't agree with it.

 

These are pixels, it'd be easy enough to let people have them again. The unique mini cupcakes are probably doing to be different the next time you bake them, anyway, as that's really the nature of baking.

[Pixxelation]

LOL, you gave another analogy after saying no more analogies 8D *Trollface*

 

Anyway, It really isn't that hard to get notified of an event. If you don't finish, accept the fact and move on. I didn't finish ToT. I needed 3 more. Could've gotten at least one other, but I fell asleep waiting. I've accepted the fact and don't really care anymore.

[Thuban]

I dont think anyone has mentioned giving people the limited badges in this thread. Pretty sure decorating type events were also shot down. The haunted house.. is another one of those events that shouldnt really be redone because it had its own badge and isnt tied to anything else.

 

 

But easter and the trick or treat event.. theres no reason not to allow people to do them. I think the suggestion i gave was well thought out. Finish the current years event, THEN have the option to hunt the previous years, in reverse order. If yu dont want NEW people to get that... then simply allow the people who missed stuff the chance to get what they missed.

 

 

Carrot cave, beat the heat.. those are something you needed to be here for. I would never suggest people be able to get them /just because/.

 

I dont see what the big problem is though. Whether its just allowing people who were here but missed some.. or allowing the new players the chance to waste their time collecting the old eggs.. doesnt really change anyones game BUT THEIRS. My event art is for the event. When the event is actually touched doesnt matter, I would rather people have the chance if they want it than say NO, you werent here tough luck.

 

This isnt something that would need to be "reorganized". its just a matter of writing a script to trigger the old code that im sure tj still has stored to release a specific years eggs. In my very basic programming knowledge.. a simple If/Then script is all it would take.

 

As for the concern that people would demand the cb rares be re-released: they can ask all they want, but THAT is a perk you have to be here for, or win. Just re-releasing for the fun of it would never happen, and thats generally accepted.

[Tawanda001]

I think it's the attitude of " other people have things I don't and I'm entitled to have them too, otherwise it's not FAIR" that turn a lot of people off this idea.

The entitlement attitude is bothersome, at what point does it stop?

This particular group might be happy with just the Easter eggs but the next person to come along is going to think that it's not enough, they want the tree decorations too. It just seems like a slippery slope to start going down.

[Thuban]

I think it's the attitude of " other people have things I don't and I'm entitled to have them too, otherwise it's not FAIR" that turn a lot of people off this idea.

The entitlement attitude is bothersome, at what point does it stop?

This particular group might be happy with just the Easter eggs but the next person to come along is going to think that it's not enough, they want the tree decorations too. It just seems like a slippery slope to start going down.

Nah: the decorating events have contests tied to them, therefore would not be eligable for a "redo".

The haunted house has its own link on the action page.. and was its own beast.. therefore not eligable.

 

 

If we set the precedence now that ONLY the specific holidays.. only the specific /type/ of holiday event can be redone, then the people who want more are on their own.

 

Whose to say that Easter next year will be /just/ another easter hunt. We know that the art staff likes to throw curveballs at us every now and then. If the event changes, then redo would no longer be something to consider. Just the previous years events would be.

 

 

So.. limit to JUST easter egg hunt as it has been done the past few years, and /possibly/ the trick or treat. Limit it to just people who were here and missed stuff... or share the fun and let the newer players have the chance. There have been awesome compromises suggested for allowing this to happen.. and throwing a few more doesnt hurt.

 

 

[Tawanda001]

Yeah, but the Christmas contest is over, and it wouldn't affect game play, and I don't see why I can't have the decorations when other people have them. Just because I wasn't here? They're just pixels, what's the big deal? It's not fair.

 

I don't see why it would be okay to say yes to this event but not that event (the collecting, not the contest), aren't they all events that are over and done with?

[Thuban]

Yeah, but the Christmas contest is over, and it wouldn't affect game play, and I don't see why I can't have the decorations when other people have them. Just because I wasn't here? They're just pixels, what's the big deal? It's not fair.   

 

I don't see why it would be okay to say yes to this event but not that event (the collecting, not the contest), aren't they all events that are over and done with?

you cant decorate the trees or the wreath.. and you cant see the items if you cant decorate, so that argument is moot. That is why those two events are not being considered by (me) as somehting repeatable.

 

 

im focusing on Easter for the simple fact that: once you do the event, you have the badge. The badge is shared from year to year, so its not gaining you anything. The wreath had its own badge. the tree had its own badge. Trick or treating had its own badge as well (thought there had been multiple years of it.. but i dont see a news post for 09) so i'd consider dropping it (or allowing people that missed items to repeat it.. but if new players are given the chance... then they get no badge)

 

The point of my suggestions has been to NOT give badges to people who didnt get them. Since easter has a shared badge, and is the one i see brought up most often for suggestions, i would like to find a way to allow it, even if its ONLY allowing people who were here the chance to grab what they missed.

 

compromises can be made, its just a problem of finding a middleground that works.

Edited August 6, 2012 by Thuban

[Shadowdrake]

I preferred the compromise where people had to hunt for their missing Easter eggs, starting with the current year's and going back. I'm going to side with re-releasing the clickhunts somehow, but since people want to be "special" for being there the original time of release, it's probably best for the items to be visibly altered.

 

The reason I think others should be able to get the items again is because DragCave is a "gotta catch em all" type of game. All the dragons except the Frills and Bright Pinks are eventually accessible by anyone who plays. As an analogy (yes I know analogies aren't the best): CB hollies belong only to those who were there for the original Christmas event. There will never be any more mass-release of CB hollies. However, anyone who joins will always have a chance on Christmas to get a holly, though its lineage isn't CB. Having a CB holly is like a badge saying "I was there", while having a lineaged holly is saying "I worked to get this".

 

Likewise, having the original badge and items means you were there, while having an altered version of the items means you weren't there originally, but you did the work to get there. This is why I support the "hunt and click for last year's" method; perhaps with greyed-out, or if the artist wants to keep the colors, faded out items instead. Obvious that they aren't the originals, but still there for you to look at and smile at your achievements.

[Ashes The Second]

I preferred the compromise where people had to hunt for their missing Easter eggs, starting with the current year's and going back. I'm going to side with re-releasing the clickhunts somehow, but since people want to be "special" for being there the original time of release, it's probably best for the items to be visibly altered.

 

The reason I think others should be able to get the items again is because DragCave is a "gotta catch em all" type of game. All the dragons except the Frills and Bright Pinks are eventually accessible by anyone who plays. As an analogy (yes I know analogies aren't the best): CB hollies belong only to those who were there for the original Christmas event. There will never be any more mass-release of CB hollies. However, anyone who joins will always have a chance on Christmas to get a holly, though its lineage isn't CB. Having a CB holly is like a badge saying "I was there", while having a lineaged holly is saying "I worked to get this".

 

Likewise, having the original badge and items means you were there, while having an altered version of the items means you weren't there originally, but you did the work to get there. This is why I support the "hunt and click for last year's" method; perhaps with greyed-out, or if the artist wants to keep the colors, faded out items instead. Obvious that they aren't the originals, but still there for you to look at and smile at your achievements.

I'd prefer this compromise, but again, what about those who didn't want the feature? An on/off button?

[stogucheme]

How about this: the artists that don't want their eggs re-released can have them excluded, and the artists that want to give others a second chance can re-release them.

 

And all the way back, Lyth made WoW and 500 chocolate eggs an example to explain why the event would be cheapened.

Here's why analogies like this don't work: The FoE isn't hard. Refresh, click, wait ten minutes, refresh, click, until you have all of them.

I would not be upset if I had an easier version of an already easy-as-pie game.

[Shadowdrake]

I'd prefer this compromise, but again, what about those who didn't want the feature? An on/off button?

If you mean those who don't want to get their missing eggs, someone (I forget who) suggested that after getting all the current eggs you'd go to a screen or something that said "You've gotten all 201X eggs! Do you want to continue hunting for 2012/2011/whatever eggs?" and a yes or no button. You could probably make it like a scroll setting as well.

[Fuzzbucket]

I think it's the attitude of " other people have things I don't and I'm entitled to have them too, otherwise it's not FAIR" that turn a lot of people off this idea.

The entitlement attitude is bothersome, at what point does it stop?

This particular group might be happy with just the Easter eggs but the next person to come along is going to think that it's not enough, they want the tree decorations too. It just seems like a slippery slope to start going down.

EXACTLY. (Gimme that old pink...)

[Sir Barton]

I think it's the attitude of " other people have things I don't and I'm entitled to have them too, otherwise it's not FAIR" that turn a lot of people off this idea.

The entitlement attitude is bothersome, at what point does it stop?

This particular group might be happy with just the Easter eggs but the next person to come along is going to think that it's not enough, they want the tree decorations too. It just seems like a slippery slope to start going down.

It is the entitled idea that bothers me. These were events. They are done with. If you weren't here there is no reason to expect to be able to have a re-release of that event. Wait until the next one and participate in that.

 

The idea that you have to 'catch them all' doesn't work for me because what you are trying to collect in the 'catch 'em all' world of DC is dragons. The events are a sideline of the game. I feel that they are more of a "oh wow, you could have spent your holiday in any variety of ways, but decided to stop by the site. Thanks so much for your patronage, here's a little something extra." Re-release negates that mentality.

 

I know this isn't about dragons, but it is something that can snowball into having people begging for their re-releases because by our very nature people will always ask for more. Now take me as an example, I was a member of DC before the Hollies were released but I didn't come on line for Christmas because I was spending time with my family and I just chalk that up to my loss. And seriously, my chances of getting a 2nd gen are ... pfft. But, once you start making allowances for people to get what they missed out on you open the flood gates for people like me to say, "why can these folks who weren't even here get a second chance and I at least was play the game when 'X' was released and just missed out and I can't get a second chance?"

 

And fuzzbucket's old pink. *nods*

[Obscure_Trash]

LOL, you gave another analogy after saying no more analogies 8D *Trollface*

 

I answered an analogy that was given to me, since it was given given to me (or given to the thread, anyway) and I felt it rude to just completely ignore it. =\ I just wanted to point out I hadn't asked for analogies or didn't realize I had asked for one. I've seen quite a few analogies in this thread by numerous people - on both sides - and none have been what I would think of as accurate.

 

It is the entitled idea that bothers me. These were events. They are done with. If you weren't here there is no reason to expect to be able to have a re-release of that event. Wait until the next one and participate in that.

 

On the other side of the coin, I have to point out that the elitism idea bothers me. So you hunted the original sprites and someone else missed it. Why can't they hunt them next year if they happen to be around?

 

As I said earlier, no to re-doing the contests or raffles and no to just badges, but why not sprites?

 

I even suggested to just view the sprites in your account somewhere and that way those sprites you didn't originally get aren't viewable by public, if that really bothers too many people. o3o

Or, as I said, have them lump together with whatever years hunt you got them in and don't give them separate borders.

[Tawanda001]

To me elitism would be if we had an event that was only open to a select group of members, to the exclusion of other members. These events were open to everyone, no one was excluded, so no I don't see it as elitist to not want to go back and re-do them.

There is a thread about re-animating (?) the tree and wreath ornaments. If, and that's a big if , it happens you think that won't be the very next thing requested?

People will want to go back and collect the ornaments they missed, or the newbs that weren't here for those will want them, just like they want the Easter eggs. And then why not the haunted house if we can give them Easter and Christmas too?

What sort of justification will there be to say "well you can collect the eggs, but not the ornaments, those are different and you can't have them"?

[stogucheme]

Can we stop with the slippery slope argument? It's a really annoying logical fallacy.

True, people will complain about everything. But that's just it- people will complain about everything, and not implementing this for fear of more people complaining is like worrying that a fire will start when the town is already burning. And in the grand scheme of things, this isn't really going to add to the fire.

 

Also. People causing drama are for the mods to deal with, which they do very effectively.

[Lythiaren]

How about this: the artists that don't want their eggs re-released can have them excluded, and the artists that want to give others a second chance can re-release them.

 

And all the way back, Lyth made WoW and 500 chocolate eggs an example to explain why the event would be cheapened.

Here's why analogies like this don't work: The FoE isn't hard. Refresh, click, wait ten minutes, refresh, click, until you have all of them.

I would not be upset if I had an easier version of an already easy-as-pie game.

So you're saying the analogy doesn't work because you assumed the WoW egg hunt was hard? It wasn't hard. The 500 eggs was exactly the same thing but even faster than the DC easter egg hunt, actually. Instead of refreshing every ten minutes we were running circuits around a town until we saw a bright blue thing, and then clicked those. Time between eggs was anywhere from five seconds to two minutes depending on lag and how many other people were around. It's not like that was very hard either, it reduced to muscle memory after about 25 eggs as you learned where they spawned, especially from watching where everyone else was running. Roughly half of my eggs were collected while half-asleep on my desk after raid because I was on autopilot. It was just quantity, and anyone who was here for the 94 tricks and treats knows how painful that was on DC.

 

Yet no one responds to the desire to flip a table when upon realizing that you did all that work for nothing. If you reopen ToT since it was just another easter egg hunt, and find a magical collect-all button when you've collected 90 of them, how would you feel? I'd honestly have a strong desire to throw something across the room.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Lythiaren