Re-Event

[Rally Vincent]

Funny how "DC is not pokemon" - a very popular argument when user suggest features similar to those in other games - only seem sto be valid when it is convenient.

 

 

So... given a user who missed out on, say, a chunk of Easter one year due to family obligations, and assuming their situation hasn't changed significantly (ie. no sudden emergencies or other life-changing circumstances, so they're still visiting relatives or having Easter egg hunts and generally having RL fun instead of sitting in front of a computer spamming F5 like a well-trained lab rat pressing a lever for bonus food pellets)... what makes you think this theoretical user would be on during a following Easter for long enough to complete the current year and get into retroactive collection? They'd just build up a backlog. And then they'd either feel pressured to clear in subsequent years, or stop caring about "finishing" an event because "I'll pick it back up next year".

 

On one hand lies undue stress, on the other lies apathy. Neither one sounds particularly appealing if you ask me. Except the part where they get to have fun away from the computer. I don't get nearly enough of that.

What about users who joined after the event and would be there on easter to collect missing eggs? Then, being on vacation one year doens't mean they'll be on ´vacation next year.

 

Apathy... do you think not caring about new easter eggs is more likely when having the chance to get them later, or when you can't get those you are missing? Or else said - why do you think that someone who'd have to catch up four three easter events would care less about event four then someone who knows they'll never have them all? Why bother to pick up the new easter eggs if you never have them all? Why would one form of apathy be preferable to the other?

[inlaterdays]

Why bother to pick up the new easter eggs if you never have them all?

...I don't think I understand this line of thinking. Because the eggs are pretty and it's fun? Do you really want none of something if you can't have all of it?

 

I guess I don't understand the all-or-nothing argument because I missed a lot of the Halloween candy and I think a couple of the Easter eggs due to having to juggle online and offline time. But it was fun to participate and I can look at other people's scrolls if I want to see the whole range of eggs and candies. (Which I sometimes do!)

 

If re-eventing turns out not to be possible, would that honestly deter people from participating in future holiday events? That seems kind of self-defeating to me. :/

 

Maybe it's more frustrating for scroll completists. I don't know.

[Pixxelation]

I wasn't here in early 2010. I don't have the first FoE. I was also away for "Beat the Heat". So what did I do? Accepted that I wouldn't be able to get them and move on. There are more events, and you will still be able to get a ton of them.

Edited August 3, 2012 by PieMaster

[tridymite]

Its human nature to want things they cant get...

 

so I dont support idea of re-release old stuff.

 

Past is past, look forward to grab the new stuff!

 

 

 

 

And yes, i still miss old pinks and the first easter event!

[Vhale]

Its human nature to want things they cant get...

It's also human nature to try to create artificial rarity where none exists to try to make something "special" As it's also human nature to want to celebrate holiday cheer. But, I think if we go down the road of making personal remarks about each other rather than debating the topic then we'll get the reminder, debate the topic, not the person.

 

I like thuban's compromise. Though I'd still love to be able to browse scrolls and pick up or hand out older events. I don't think it would lag things user-wise as people can only click so many things at once. And generally, they are already clicking.

 

As far as the philisophical debate. This isn't something stunningly unique. The beat the heat badge doesn't apply, as people already said they didn't think this should apply to badges. This is about Christmas ornaments, Candy and Eggs. Three things that, without fail, in the real world repeat themselves every year. They aren't unique, one of a kind events that happen once only to the best of the best. They are community events that are shared with a group of people. Often on a grand scale. I think we're trying to turn annual symbols of a holiday into something they simply are not.

[Thuban]

I'm glad people are trying to see both sides of the fence here, but im a little bummed about how black and white this is.

 

Yes: you should have to be here to be able to enjoy the event, however that cant always happen. I saw the convention comment, i was totally waiting for that to happen. Why dont you take a peek at ebay in the my little pony section and check out how many of the con specific ponies are up for auction.

 

For the "events are always warned for weeks ahead of time" aspect.. i dont believe that the 12 days of christmas was warned for weeks ahead of time. People know in general there will be an event, but they can not be sure how long, whats entitled, if its going to be time consuming.. or something you can finish in 15 minutes (such as the haunted house). They dont know if its going to be a small amount of things to collect (easter) or OMG hunting overload (trick or treating). Some peoples familys /actually/ make a point to do things. My christmas, despite the fact we dont celebrate it in the classic sense is

Three days before: visit all the grandparents and greats

christmas eve: moms house, then 2 hour drive to ducks family, hour drive to the rest of the family, 3 hour drive from out there to detroit to visit my family that we only see at christmas, then home and bed. If theres anything Santas little elves forgot to put together, we stay up late getting that all done so the rugrats can get up and play with their stuff asap instead of racing to get it done.

Christmas day: Wake up, do the kids presents, get to moms for the christmas breakfast/present dealy, visit the famililes we skipped, and if we're lucky we get home and get to go straight to bed. Not usually the case since the kids want to play with all their new tuff together from other people.

 

Easter: we have to go through the motions of doing the family dinners. We normally have at least three stops on easter, and the day before and after are for the other family branches we dont get to visit much. This year we had the surprise visit from his mom, who flew out from new york without telling anyone she was coming.

 

I still manage to get most of what i need to.. but people who have family obligations (and actually participate in the process of getting the family gathering stuff together) have less time.

 

This is why I refuse to object to the chance. You can buy souvineers from the events you miss. This game doesnt have paid advantages, but if people really want to sit down and take the time to try to collect what they may have missed, I dont think the lag will be any different than it is while doing the normal event. Whether other people have the chance or not to collect the silly little trinkets does not affect MY game, so who am i to say no. Permission is implied for my contributions to the events. This is why instead of flat out saying no, and refusing to budge, I have offered compromises. I dont believe this is something that /would/ happen, but it doesnt hurt to suggest ways to make it work, IF the opportunity is there to do so.

 

I mean.. i could have suggested that the ability to do missed hunts be the first "pay" option.. but i know people are dead set against paid perks. I could have suggested a lot of things, but the ideas i shared are the ones that are least likely to affect individual games, and still offer a way to show who legitmately did the event /during/ the event, and who didnt.

[RainDear]

We were told that we would be able to play around with the trees and wreaths and redecorate them after the event. I had hoped to play around with different themes/colors on these. I would certainly not object to everyone getting these "toys" to play with at some future date (with the artists' permission, of course). We will never have those contests again, after all.

 

With the Easter eggs and Halloween stuff, I am willing to go with whatever is decided by TJ/majority/artists.

 

I just don't feel the method of extending the hunt for past years' stuff is the answer. It would leave new members farther and farther behind and less and less likely to achieve complete sets, ever. Of course, if there are artists whose permissions cannot be obtained, those ornaments would be exclusive to the original hunters, if that "exclusivity" is really that important.

 

Those of us who spent the time to gather these things have our badges to show for that effort.

[Thuban]

We were told that we would be able to play around with the trees and wreaths and redecorate them after the event. I had hoped to play around with different themes/colors on these. I would certainly not object to everyone getting these "toys" to play with at some future date (with the artists' permission, of course). We will never have those contests again, after all.

 

With the Easter eggs and Halloween stuff, I am willing to go with whatever is decided by TJ/majority/artists.

 

I just don't feel the method of extending the hunt for past years' stuff is the answer. It would leave new members farther and farther behind and less and less likely to achieve complete sets, ever. Of course, if there are artists whose permissions cannot be obtained, those ornaments would be exclusive to the original hunters, if that "exclusivity" is really that important.

 

Those of us who spent the time to gather these things have our badges to show for that effort.

my suggestions do not give the users the badges. Only the ability to hunt for the stuff they missed /if they want to/ after they finish whatever the current event is, before the event actually ends. It can be a rather small window of time, or it could be enough time to get a few years knocked out. Regardless its something where if they want it they ahve to devote the time during the available window, or wait a year to try to finish.

 

Event tokens dont matter. They are pretty to have, fun to collect, but having them or not having them does not make or break the game.

 

I would love the ability to redo my tree/wreath.. but not year round. What if you could change them during december, but once "winter holiday" event is over, they go back into freeze mode until the next "winter holiday season". Because of the fact they have been frozen, i have seen no point to including them in the list of things people should be able to catch up on. those events were pretty drawn out, and thats something i think needs to be a "sorry but this is a "you needed to be here" type of event.

 

the easter eggs.. those arent exactly really in depth events. Yes, there is a lot of work that goes into it on the art side, but user side.. click, refresh click again.. not exactly something that is really all that in depth. Thats why most of my suggestions have been easter event related. Now if there was an easter event that involved something along the lines of the haunted house.. i would be way less prone to supporting allowing people to redo that.

[Dolphinsong]

Thuban, to some of us, the event tokens DO matter, espically to those of us who organized the events. Me and Lyth both organized past events and we both feel that if you missed out on it, there's no second change, just try to be there for the next release of the event.

[RainDear]

my suggestions do not give the users the badges. Only the ability to hunt for the stuff they missed /if they want to/ after they finish whatever the current event is, before the event actually ends. It can be a rather small window of time, or it could be enough time to get a few years knocked out. Regardless its something where if they want it they ahve to devote the time during the available window, or wait a year to try to finish.

 

Event tokens dont matter. They are pretty to have, fun to collect, but having them or not having them does not make or break the game.

 

I would love the ability to redo my tree/wreath.. but not year round. What if you could change them during december, but once "winter holiday" event is over, they go back into freeze mode until the next "winter holiday season". Because of the fact they have been frozen, i have seen no point to including them in the list of things people should be able to catch up on. those events were pretty drawn out, and thats something i think needs to be a "sorry but this is a "you needed to be here" type of event.

 

the easter eggs.. those arent exactly really in depth events. Yes, there is a lot of work that goes into it on the art side, but user side.. click, refresh click again.. not exactly something that is really all that in depth. Thats why most of my suggestions have been easter event related. Now if there was an easter event that involved something along the lines of the haunted house.. i would be way less prone to supporting allowing people to redo that.

I'm sorry, I think you misunderstood me.

 

At any rate, this would be entirely up to the discretion of TJ and the artists, so really out of my hands, anyway.

[stogucheme]

As I've said in the past, I am not personally against re-releasing scroll badges, I just honestly can't think of a practical way to do it that wouldn't cause confusion, server lag, and a whole host of potential complications. Not to mention extra work for TJ.

 

No one's come up yet with a way to solve any of the practical problems.

Um...has anyone read what I suggested? The confusion angle I'm not sure about (though I think it's simple enough to explain), but it would reduce lag by having people on at 2 times instead of 1.

How about this? We have 2 different times for each event, plus do the hunt for 2013, then 2012, etc. eggs thing. Take this year for example. Calendar for reference. Valentine's Day was on a Tuesday. So, from the 10-12, you can choose to hunt Easter eggs, or you can hunt from the 17-19. You cannot hunt at both events.

Then we've got Halloween. (Don't remember if that was a weekend thing; pretend it was.) It's on a Wednesday. From 26-28 or from November 2-4, you can hunt for candy/do the haunted mansion/etc., but you can't do it on both days.

Next is Christmas. Let's pretend it's a 12 day thing always. Christmas is on a Tuesday. From 13-24 or 26- January 6, you can hunt.

 

This will alleviate lag and provide more flexibility and fairness. DC should be a challenging game, not a frustrating one.

Also, I'd really like an announcement on the actual cave next time.

 

@Dolphinsong:

Thuban, to some of us, the event tokens DO matter, espically to those of us who organized the events. Me and Lyth both organized past events and we both feel that if you missed out on it, there's no second change, just try to be there for the next release of the event.

The event tokens don't just matter to you. They matter to the people who didn't get them as well. Why is your want to have them and not let others who weren't there have them more important?

Edited August 4, 2012 by stogucheme

[KageSora]

Why is your want to have them and not let others who weren't there have them more important?

Maybe because, unlike most of us, they have had a hand in making sure the past events happened? I'd say that makes them have more say than the rest of us.

[Pixxelation]

Yeah, they worked hard for an EVENT, not an addition. If they don't want they're art being used in a different way then intended, they have the right to say no.

[Dolphinsong]

Those that organized the event(s) have more say in said events than those that merely provided art. We are the ones that make sure all submittions for the event are in on time for TJ to code it into the site for the event. We start on this planning roughly 3 months prior to said event taking place and often times drama can crop up that has to be settled before work can continue.

 

To have them re-released after making sure everything is ready on time just because of people being unable to attend the event or try to make a few minutes time for them dispite early warning of the event... It makes me, as an organizer, feel cheap and not as proud of the work I put into the event.

[Thuban]

I've play a part in some of these events as well, i just view things differently

 

 

Since it seems allowing the users to have a chance at these missed events is the unpopular choice.. what would it take to make it "acceptable"? There are more artists than just the few we've had comment so far. It would be interesting to get more thoughts on how it /could/ work (and more insight on why it wont as well).

 

I do get why you should have to be here to get the events: they are a special treat for the users who are here at the time. Its sort of our gift to you guys.

 

On the other hand, even if the idea is shot down, at some point in the future, the idea will come up again, so why not offer as many options as possible to allow it so that the next time this comes up, we can honestly say: we have tried every approch that has cmoe up and they dont work for (these) reasons.

 

 

/me ducks from the shoe she knows is aimed at her head... lol

Edited August 4, 2012 by Thuban

[stogucheme]

Those that organized the event(s) have more say in said events than those that merely provided art. We are the ones that make sure all submittions for the event are in on time for TJ to code it into the site for the event. We start on this planning roughly 3 months prior to said event taking place and often times drama can crop up that has to be settled before work can continue.

 

To have them re-released after making sure everything is ready on time just because of people being unable to attend the event or try to make a few minutes time for them dispite early warning of the event... It makes me, as an organizer, feel cheap and not as proud of the work I put into the event.

Going back to Halloween, here are the dates in the news thread:

2011-10-25 - Halloween 2011 Schedule.

2011-10-27 - Haunted House Event (only 2 days warning, 1 day for breeding)

2011-10-31 - Happy Halloween (only 5 days warning)

2011-11-17 - Haunted House Available Again

 

2011-12-14 - 2011 Holiday Event

2011-12-25 - Happy Holidays (only 9 days warning)

 

2012-02-07 - Valentine's Day Preview

2012-02-14 - Happy Valentine's Day (only 7 days warning)

 

ETA: Fesival of Eggs wasn't warned for, and have really inconsistent dates:

2012-04-08 - Third Annual Festival of Eggs

2011-04-23 - Second Annual Festival of Eggs

4/04/10 - Festival of Eggs

 

It might just be me, but that hardly seems weeks' worth of warnings. (You claimed this earlier in the thread.) Not just that, the V-day before didn't even get warnings. Halloween did (4 days) and so did X-mas (7 days).

 

Should've verified this at the start, but it kind of makes all your arguments moot because we didn't get fair warnings. (Even 9 days isn't much- I plan trips at least 2 weeks in advance.)

Edited August 4, 2012 by stogucheme

[Dolphinsong]

Hey take it up with TJ about how he warns us. Do remember he has a busy life as well and can only do so much at a time.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Maybe it's more frustrating for scroll completists. I don't know.

For me, this is the primary thing. Back when the main holiday alts really started appearing (set-in-stone Snow Angel types and Alt Sweetlings), I very nearly stopped playing DC. As I've mentioned before, I'm very fond of DC because people can collect almost everything if they work for it--that was one of the first times when I felt that was no longer possible.

 

Of course, as time goes on there's sadly been more and more things that newer players will just never get (or, you know, have extremely low chances of getting)--Frills, Old Pinks, CB Holiday dragons from past years, all the forms of the Holiday dragons...

 

I feel bad for newer players who are always going to miss out on those. I feel like allowing them to collect some shiny trinkets they missed out on is at least some small way to say "hey, we're sorry you missed out on some cool dragons in the past, but at least you can get in on some fun events you missed!"

Edited August 4, 2012 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Dolphinsong]

And yet there are many more events to come. If we're to allow re-events, may as well stop making new events until everyone catches up. Oh wait, that will never happen, we're always getting new members who will also want to get the old stuff...

 

Maybe I should suggest cancling the plans for the future events since people want to get the old stuff they missed out on, which isn't our fault that said miss happened.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

And yet there are many more events to come. If we're to allow re-events, may as well stop making new events until everyone catches up. Oh wait, that will never happen, we're always getting new members who will also want to get the old stuff...

 

Maybe I should suggest cancling the plans for the future events since people want to get the old stuff they missed out on, which isn't our fault that said miss happened.

Thu's suggestion was to still do the current year's event first, and then just give later players a chance to take a stab at getting old eggs afterwards if they so desire. I fail to see how giving later players a chance to enjoy past events = not making new events for the players who have already gotten the past things...?

 

Plus that logic kind of works against DC as a whole. New players are coming in with a lot more dragon breeds to collect at once than did older players. Does that mean we should bar them from collecting older breeds to keep them from getting overwhelmed? No. They'll just have more of a challenge ahead of them, but that's alright. They're game for it. And in the meantime, we certainly don't need to put new dragons on hold to punish older players at the expense of the new. And all of what I just said applies to collecting trinkets as well.

 

It's not your fault they missed the events, but it isn't their fault, either. XP

Edited August 4, 2012 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Fuzzbucket]

Going back to Halloween, here are the dates in the news thread:

2011-10-25 - Halloween 2011 Schedule.

2011-10-27 - Haunted House Event (only 2 days warning, 1 day for breeding)

2011-10-31 - Happy Halloween (only 5 days warning)

2011-11-17 - Haunted House Available Again

 

2011-12-14 - 2011 Holiday Event

2011-12-25 - Happy Holidays (only 9 days warning)

 

2012-02-07 - Valentine's Day Preview

2012-02-14 - Happy Valentine's Day (only 7 days warning)

 

It might just be me, but that hardly seems weeks' worth of warnings. (You claimed this earlier in the thread.) Not just that, the V-day before didn't even get warnings. Halloween did (4 days) and so did X-mas (7 days).

 

Should've verified this at the start, but it kind of makes all your arguments moot because we didn't get fair warnings. (Even 9 days isn't much- I plan trips at least 2 weeks in advance.)

Well, Stog - much as I love you - if you don't know when Christmas is in time to plan your trip around it....

 

Seriously - those not on forums will never know anyway; those who are (or at LEAST those who are so upset about missing out) know that there are going to be events at Christmas, Easter, Hallowe'en and Valentines. So you know that chances are you need to have access to a computer at these times. And that something may happen on April 1 (and a warning of THAT would be just - wrong ) So - plan for the likely event dates, and you'll be OK.

 

You almost sound like you need reminding when Valentine's is...

 

Hell, I live in two countries at once and travel as well, and I have a life and grandchildren and the only events I have plain missed were - before I was here !

 

Anyway I think the event organisers' feelings do trump everyone else's, to be honest. If they didn't, I might in the end be able to have a CB old pink

Edited August 4, 2012 by fuzzbucket

[stogucheme]

Well, Stog - much as I love you - if you don't know when Christmas is in time to plan your trip around it....

 

Seriously - those not on forums will never know anyway; those who are (or at LEAST those who are so upset about missing out) know that there are going to be events at Christmas, Easter, Hallowe'en and Valentines. So you know that chances are you need to have access to a computer at these times. And that something may happen on April 1 (and a warning of THAT would be just - wrong ) So - plan for the likely event dates, and you'll be OK.

 

You almost sound like you need reminding when Valentine's is... 

 

Hell, I live in two countries at once and travel as well, and I have a life and grandchildren    and the only events I have plain missed were - before I was here !

 

Anyway I think the event organisers' feelings do trump everyone else's, to be honest. If they didn't, I might in the end be able to have a CB old pink

I'll point out that the Festival of Eggs wasn't warned for. Here are the dates they were hosted:

2012-04-08 - Third Annual Festival of Eggs

2011-04-23 - Second Annual Festival of Eggs

4/04/10 - Festival of Eggs

 

The 8th, 23rd, and 4th are hardly consistent times and really should be warned for, given that there are only 3 days to figure it out.

 

And no, I didn't know that DC did a thing like this- I joined the forums 2 days before V-day and had no clue about it. All I knew was I couldn't get on that day and thought it was really weird.

Also, what about people who have to work on V-day?

 

Okay, okay, I can agree about April 1st. But we don't get anything but a badge on those days, which is not what this thread advocates.

 

It is the artists' right to take down images they no longer wish used. It's their right to restrict images as to when they can be used. They don't own all the images in the basket, so if other artists want a re-release of their images, why are they arguing?

Edited August 4, 2012 by stogucheme

[Lythiaren]

What about users who joined after the event and would be there on easter to collect missing eggs? Then, being on vacation one year doens't mean they'll be on ´vacation next year.

 

Apathy... do you think not caring about new easter eggs is more likely when having the chance to get them later, or when you can't get those you are missing? Or else said - why do you think that someone who'd have to catch up four three easter events would care less about event four then someone who knows they'll never have them all? Why bother to pick up the new easter eggs if you never have them all? Why would one form of apathy be preferable to the other?

I do believe you've misread the hypothetical example.

 

I did not say this theoretical user was on vacation, I said they had an annual family obligation. A thing that an enormous percentage of our players are familiar with, as it can be applied to other holidays with which DC lines up events: Halloween parties, family Christmas/Hannukah/Kwanzaa/New Years'/anything-else-I-missed gatherings, and spending time with your significant other(s) on Valentine's are very common, annual things that really should be more important to people than a video game. And if they're annual things that people attend with their families, you can say all you want that "that doesn't mean they will next year", but that doesn't change the fact that, barring a significant life-changing event like the family crumbling into a massive feud, chances are they will go next year. Because it's a family event, and you don't just blow off your entire extended family for a video game unless you hate every last one of them. They are extremely likely to be away from the game for a large chunk of a given event almost every year. And then get backlogged. And find it more and more of an easily-avoidable chore to nibble at each year.

 

Apathy happens faster when urgency is gone. People care less about collecting things when they're not limited. This is why procrastination is so prevalent: "I can finish it later" is a powerful demotivator. On the other hand, a hard deadline is a strong motivator. If a person would want to leave the game because it's impossible to catch 'em all legitimately, they'd already be gone over Snow Angels and spriter alts, to say nothing of retired breeds.

 

"I didn't finish but at least I did what I could" is a neutral mentality that doesn't lead to crushing demoralization either. After all, if someone doesn't finish an assignment in time, it doesn't make them lose out on their grade, nor does it make them care less about subsequent assignments.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Lythiaren

[Rally Vincent]

I do believe you've misread the hypothetical example.

 

I did not say this theoretical user was on vacation, I said they had an annual family obligation.

I might have worded wrong what I wanted to reply, so let me clarify.

 

The group of players who missed out does not consist to a hundred percent of players who have annual obligations. There is a large portion of players who joined later and will not have obligations. There might have been players with a surpising work obligation, a vacation which will not reoccur or whatever singular reason one might think of. I just wanted to point out that there are other theoretical users whose interests should be considered in the discussion as well if we are discussing the whys and why nots.

 

I see the line of your argument. I didn't manage to see yet why that type of player should be the one we evaluate the interests of the whole DC userbase on (at least, that is how I understand your example - otherwise could you please show me/explain what I misunderstood). There are other types of players whose interests should be considered.

 

The way I see it, lack of interest of your theoretical player in the event would rather originate in the fact that they don't have the time to do the event in the first place. If they do not have the time to do the "new" event, they will of course get a backlog. But in my opinion, a backlog is way better then the exclusion from getting event items. They may in the end have the same practical result (for your theoretical user), but the effect on other players is very different.

 

 

Apathy happens faster when urgency is gone. People care less about collecting things when they're not limited. This is why procrastination is so prevalent: "I can finish it later" is a powerful demotivator.

I agree that it could be demotivating to some. But if those players only collect event items because otherwise they will miis out forever - then I prefer the real interest of those who collect them because they like them. As it is now, the player has only two choices. To say it with Yoda: Do or do not. There is no try. By rereleasing former event items, there'd be: "Do or do not. Or do it later." Three opitons to accomodate the user's playstyle.

 

 

And if they're annual things that people attend with their families, you can say all you want that "that doesn't mean they will next year", but that doesn't change the fact that, barring a significant life-changing event like the family crumbling into a massive feud, chances are they will go next year.

I think there are circumstances where parents prevent their children from getting event items, but one or two years later, they will be in college or deemed old enough to not having to go on easter vacation (there will come a time where teenagers will not want to go on vacation with their parents) or allowed to use the internet without supervision. While those cases might not be the majority, they won't won't be insignificant in numbers.

 

 

[GokaiPink]

Was curious about what this topic had been about. While skimming through most of the replies came across one about decorating the trees. It was from my understanding that after the event had been concluded we'd be able to decorate our tree again. Yet, that did not happen nor previously with the start of the wreath. Had it been changed? I could not find anything on the wiki pages say otherwise. Not really an issue to me honestly, just curious.