Past Generation Influence

[StormWizard212]

I don't really understand what the benefit of this would be. As a lot of people have said, it would be a bit confusing and it would probably irritate people a little too, if they ended up with something that they didn't want. Say you were breeding two tinsels together, for example, then ended up with a pebble dragon or something because it was in the lineage. I wouldn't be too happy.

 

However, I would support this idea if there was a benefit to having the ancestors influence the new egg. For example, if there was an alt version of a dragon ONLY available through this method. Then it would be rare and therefore desirable. If you were breeding two things hoping for one of them but then ended up with the rare alt, it would be a pleasant surprise instead of an "oh no, but I wanted x or y".

 

So I think something like that could work. But as it is, I don't think it would really have much benefit. There needs to be an advantage to make people want it.

[Ayelldee]

I know nothing about all the coding involved, or the genetic numbers either, but I'm not too sure I like this idea. If I breed a Marrow and a Black and a VINE popped out, I'm afraid I'd go into a foaming at the mouth throwing things across the room yelling many unprintable words fit of of unhappiness.

 

I'm not interested in making the search for wanted/unwanted forebears before I even light the candles and put on the Barry White tunes for the two dragons.

[KageSora]

I gotta say no. It'd likely be complicated to code, and TJ could use the time he'd spend working on that (that is assuming he wouldn't have to learn how to code it because he doesn't know how to right now) could be better spent on other things, I feel.

 

Besides, as interesting as that would be, I'd be very annoyed if I ended up finally getting an egg out of a pairing I want--only for it to be a dragon from further back in the lineage that I have no need or desire for. I'd be pissed if that happened.

 

 

Besides that, I personally just wouldn't care much for it. I've tried a few breeding games, and anything beyond the simple breeding we have here just bores the heck outta me. If for whatever reason I wanted to try that again, I'd go find a game that's already like that instead of trying to turn DC into something like that when the simpleness appeals to a lot of people here.

 

 

Now, I wouldn't mind so much if we had more "hybrids" to breed, that'd be nice, or more "alts".

 

I would even not mind too much if we had dragons that were occasionally born with different colors (like the alts, only just a pallet swap instead of a whole new sprite) or something, but... The idea of maybe being able to get something of a different breed from two dragons (outside of the hybrids) just... Bothers me.

[stogucheme]

I think what codyne wrote in the inbreeding suggestion is most accurate here: http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showt...0entry5598276

(Basically, it's safe to assume that dragons only get their genetic material from *one* parent, so inbreeding- and therefore this suggestion- is kind of null and void.)

 

If codyne thinks I'm twisting their words and this doesn't apply the same way, feel free to tell me and I'll remove it.

[olympe]

at school mostly

 

The DNA strand inherited from grandparents goes through crossing over phase two times and that's why the code remains at most 10% of the greatparent DNA is preserved in original way, had it been without the crossing over, it would stay between 0-50%

Considering that most of our DNA is the very same as another humans - heck, even chimpanzees have about 98% or 99% of their genes in common with us! - I'd say that the crossing over cannot be such a big deal. Sure, it might recombine genes from different grandparents in someone, but it's still their genetic material. /derailment

 

Anyway, I'm not too happy with the idea to complicate things. Sure, it would be great to breed two tinselfails and get a surprise tinsel, but it would open up a few other cans of worms:

- People would start breeding their common dragons with lots of rare ancestors in the hope of getting a rare. The problem is that this would produce countless commons, many of which would likely be dumped in the AP. This is quite the opposite to allowing rare x rare breeding, if you ask me.

- A common egg from a rare x rare breeding would happen much more often than a rare egg from a common x common breeding (due to ratios). This means that for every person who gets a rare surprise egg, there are several people who'll get a common surprise. In the end, this would pee off more people than not.

- Personally, I think we have enough elements of surprise already, with alts (black, vine and nebula - and even snow angels), color morphs (dorsals, stripes and ridgewings) and the breed-only or hybrid breeds (geode, bluna and shallow water), not to mention which gender we'll get. (Yes, I know about influence. But lately, two of my influences on tinsels have failed, so I'm not so sure of that any more.) There's also the element of "surprise, no egg" or even "surprise, refusal" that we have to take into account. However, this does not mean I'd oppose more breed-only or hybrid breeds, alts or color morphs, quite the contrary.

[Dolphinsong]

This has been suggested several times in the past and each time it was shot down for the very same ideas. People breeding their dragons do so for the very purpose of having dragons of the parent's breed(s). I don't want to go breeding for example, a black and a silver and end up getting a pink because the black had a pink in its lineage.

[synditrix]

I love this idea, but I think some players wouldn't be very happy. Maybe there could be an option to turn this on/off?

[Coronaviridae]

I'd be more interested in using genetics in this game if it weren't possible to have lineages with every possible dragon breed in them within twenty generations.

 

At that point it would basically become a lottery as to what kind of egg you actually get.

 

I mean, if this or this had been permitted to grow to adulthood and I'd bred either of them with this or this, what would the percentages have been for possible offspring?

 

What about lineage projects like Tones of Life and Fifth Element, where there's deliberate construction of multibreed lineages that rely on the fact dragons only inherit their parents' species?

[HeatherMarie]

I'd be more interested in using genetics in this game if it weren't possible to have lineages with every possible dragon breed in them within twenty generations.

 

At that point it would basically become a lottery as to what kind of egg you actually get.

QFT.

 

When you breed two dragons with super "messy" lineages, if they had the ability to produce any breed in their lineages, it would basically be as random and closing your eyes and clicking on the AP.

 

Do Not Want.

[coltzen]

I really like this idea. Many common, unwanted eggs with messy linages on the AP have a rare ancestor somewhere in the line. If there was a chance for the dragon to produce a that rare dragon I think more eggs would be picked off the AP. But I THINK I remember this idea being shot down in the past so I don't think it will happen.

[KageSora]

I really like this idea. Many common, unwanted eggs with messy linages on the AP have a rare ancestor somewhere in the line. If there was a chance for the dragon to produce a that rare dragon I think more eggs would be picked off the AP. But I THINK I remember this idea being shot down in the past so I don't think it will happen.

But out of all those eggs taken, how many times will each be bred in the search for that rare? We could end up with the AP constantly flooded with messy, long-lineaged, inbred dragons.

[HeatherMarie]

I really like this idea. Many common, unwanted eggs with messy linages on the AP have a rare ancestor somewhere in the line. If there was a chance for the dragon to produce a that rare dragon I think more eggs would be picked off the AP. But I THINK I remember this idea being shot down in the past so I don't think it will happen.

So you pick up an unwanted common and breed it because it has a small-itty-bitty chance at making a rare because of it's lineage.

 

On the flip side, it will *most likely* make yet another unwanted messy-lineaged common, because rares are *rare*.

 

So your scenerio would be like a 5% chance of making a wanted rare, and a 95% of making yet another unwanted egg to be tossed to the AP.

 

Definitely don't think that's a good reason to implement this idea.

Edited October 30, 2011 by Marie19R

[-platinum-draco-]

Brings thread from dead.

 

I can actually add a little support in the fact that, while it could make lineages a bit confusing, it would have a really small chance of this. Also, for lineage enthusiasts, they could purposefully wait for a breed to reappear, with some pretty options. Such as a black-red lineage.

 

BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR

BB BB BB BB

RR RR

BB

R

 

It would make a neat pattern, no?

However, I think only grandparents. Makes it a tad less confusing.

 

Also, this would be a big change, but biomes were too, so I don't think that is a good argument.

 

The only major problem would be coding, which is really only a potential problem as I really don't know how hard this would be to code. Also the getting the wrong dragon problem, but again, really small chance.

[Dolphinsong]

This has been shot down hundrads of time for one main factor. When ppl breed their dragons they want one of the resulting parent breeds, not something from earlier generations. Take my adult gold, one of its grandparents is a pink. When I breed her I do NOT want a pink! I want either a gold or stone dragon from it not something else.

[thiefofhearts]

there's a lot of messy lineages. a dragon could thusly become any of those from a past breeding. so no thanks. i could see a lot of extra eggs in the ap because of this. i've played a few breeding games and i don't think anyone of them has ever followed this type of system.

 

i do think we should have more hybrids though - like blunas and goldfish, just for variety. it does get a little boring with most eggs being predictable between 2 different breeds but the up side is that you can use the steadiness to your advantage when choosing pairs and making lineages.

[HawktalonOfRiverClan]

I do agree that this could bring some interesting points into the game, and I personally would not mind it as I find genetics very interesting. But I also enjoy the simplicity of this game, and this would add confusing parts that would ruin pretty lineages that already exist. It would also frustrate some people if they kept breeding their Gold and Snowangle and kept getting a Purple. The cons seem to way outnumber the pros.

[elynne]

I would support this idea with one caveat: a player could choose to turn it on or off. I would probably turn it on, because I think the idea is fascinating, and I'd be willing to risk the occasional hiccup in my breeding programs. The default would be to have it turned off, and you could only turn it on after you have, say, a bronze or silver trophy. Or it could be an option to be added as a "gold plus" trophy levels--the more dragons you collect, the more options you can unlock.

 

Otherwise, I'd have to say no.

[Aderik]

I at the same time like this idea and don't like the idea.

 

I like the idea because it is a change. It would be something interesting to me. Will a uniquely lineaged dragon produce something special? It would give a purpose to lineages other than something pretty to make, or a connection to other players.

 

Why I don't like the idea. The whole boomstick to the inbreeding being bad argument is that there is no genetics. With that added I can't pester my friends over being picky with what they pick from the AP.

 

In the end I'm undecided, but interested.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Aderik

[-platinum-draco-]

I would support this idea with one caveat: a player could choose to turn it on or off. I would probably turn it on, because I think the idea is fascinating, and I'd be willing to risk the occasional hiccup in my breeding programs. The default would be to have it turned off, and you could only turn it on after you have, say, a bronze or silver trophy. Or it could be an option to be added as a "gold plus" trophy levels--the more dragons you collect, the more options you can unlock.

 

Otherwise, I'd have to say no.

An interesting idea, but I don't know. It would be odd to get a dragon you couldn't breed yourself , if you have any idea what I mean.

 

And will keep saying, it would probably be a really small chance. It wouldn't be "Gah, my gold dragons keep making purple kids." It would be "If I breed diligently, I might get a purple from this gold." Somewhere between the chance of getting an alt and having an influence fail. If it was a common occurrence, I wouldn't support it.

[Sadako]

...Just to play the devil's advocate, this might seem like it would benefit new players, because they could breed together two messy-lined metalfails and maybe they would have a chance to get their first rare from it, but on the other hand, if the chance of getting an ancestor's breed is small, and the chance of getting a rare ancestor's breed is even smaller, then maybe there would suddenly be a lot of very messy eggs clogging up the AP from people breeding random commons because they heard they might get a rare out of it.

 

Also, for lineage enthusiasts, they could purposefully wait for a breed to reappear, with some pretty options.

 

Oh, but wait, that part would be fun, actually.

[HeatherMarie]

I guess most people like this idea? I don't, for the reasons I stated before.

 

However, I'd be much less grumpy about the idea if it was something we could deliberately turn off or on. Choose not to use it at all, if we don't care for it.

[WestWindReborn]

nah, too many variables for me.

[dlt111]

I was looking at some of my dragons's lineages and thought to myself, "Wouldn't it be REALLY awesome to just one day breed two messy 23rd gen dragons of let's say vine and black parents but end up with a Gold Shimmer egg?!"

 

This follows the idea of recessive traits. We could say that if two dragons both had a Gold Shimmer in their lineage they could have a 3-5% chance of getting a dragon of that kind instead of the parents breed? Of course, we'd have to put a button in there making it stop for people who don't want that, maybe a BSA to take the option away and maybe another BSA to increase that to maybe 7-10%.

 

The discourage BSA would have maybe a 24hr cool down while the encourage has a 14 day cool down to keep things fair. The discourage should be put on an EXTREMELY common dragon while the encouraging one on an uncommon-ish like maybe a swallowtail.

 

Before people as, no it wouldn't allow unobtainables like the original pinks and frills to come back, but would allow holiday dragons to spawn outside of their normal breeding season, maybe at a smaller chance?

 

I'd like to hear your opinions on it - and please be CONstructive not DEstructive. It's just an idea to add a new dimension to the game/give newbies a chance at rarer dragons.

[Moonlightelf]

I think this had been suggested before, but was shot down.

 

While genetics would be fun to play with, it can also be very complicated.

And can TJ actually code it into the game is one concern I have as well.

 

I admit, it would add interesting twist to the game, but what if person breeds two messy dragons, lets call them Gold and Pink. Now the player would like to have either Gold as tradefodder, or Pink for BSA... and they suddenly end up with Green from their ancestory? It would be quite a surprise to get such a dragon, and would raise questions. (In fact, people were surprised from Ultraviolets breeding Spitfires at first.)

 

While BSA could be made for preventing this unwanted egg from being created, what if they didn't have any of that breed? What if they didn't want any of that breed?

 

Not to mention, how does the BSA work from roleplaying aspect? What can another dragon do to discourage the genes of two other dragons from coming into a play and make that Green not appear? With medievalish time going around in the game, there is no way to prevent it without modern technology. Unfortunately, magic isn't always the answer/excuse though.

 

With these complications, I unfortunately have to say no. Keeping the breeding simple is what I like about the game, having two possibilities for egg.

[dlt111]

Well, the coding aspect has me beat because the coding I do know is more for financial planning and stock graphing than for handling genetics.

 

I don't think it's that hard to explain though. There are shadow walkers that go in between realms, why not a shaman-ish dragon who communes with the baby dragon inside the egg (during breeding) and seals the baby's memories of its ancestry until it is laid as a decided egg? Or maybe just have an option in the account settings?

 

As for not wanting the shaman-ish dragon on their scroll, I think they won't be AS averse to it as you make it sound. It would be a dragon of common birth yes, but of stature for their unique skills.