Past Generation Influence

[AutumnStars]

I'm not sure if anything like this has been posted before, but I couldn't really find anything like it, so... Here goes nothing.

 

This is just an idea I thought up while talking to one of my good friends about Dragon Cave, but what if the past generations of an egg could influence what the egg bred could be?

 

Lets just say, like, a percentage chance of under 1%, so as not to screw up with breeding too much, but still letting the chance be there. Just as an interesting twist to breeding. And I think it'd be too hard to go anything past great grandparents as well.

 

Example:

Now I'm just going to use this lineage to demonstrate. With this Dragon, it could only be a Marrow or a Black, which it is a Marrow. But lets say, with this Past Generation Influence ability, it could have been something from one of its Grandparents or Great Grandparents. Like... A Vine or a Guardian. Now, the chance would be very small, because those are both Great Grandparents, but still a chance there.

 

I just think this would be something cool to add it. You know, just as a cool thing to add to normal breeding to make it more interesting. And if a common had rares in its lineage, it would be more worth it to breed it more, in the hopes of getting that rare. Though it may take over 100 breedings to get, still. I think it'd be neat.

 

Here's a formula idea for what it might look like:

If the structure of the lineage is:

(Don't mind the periods)

A B C D E F G H

..I ....J ....K ..L

.....M ........N

...........O

 

O being the dragon egg

We know that A=B=C=D=E=F=G=H

Also that I=J=K=L

M=N

And that 4A=I

And 4I=M

And all of these values together would add up to 1.

Each value would be the percentage that the offspring would be of that type.

Of course, same types would have their percentages stacked.

This doesn't count for only breedable dragons, like Geodes, Blunas, and Shallow Waters. Nor does it account for if there are no dragons in that specific generation, though that could be fixed.

 

If the coding is too much, it could always be simplified to just grandparents.

 

Any suggestions or improvements or just generally what you think of this idea would be great.

 

Other suggestions:

 

If this were going to happen, then instead of a complicated system of Discourage and Encourage BSA's, or the frustration of a random breeding messing up breeding projects, I'd rather see a Throwback BSA that enables a random chance of getting any normal (i.e. non-discontinued, non-holiday) breed from the dragon's lineage. And if you didn't use the BSA, throwbacks would continue never to occur.

Edited July 17, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Dr. Paine]

I gotta say no.

 

Way too much coding involved, way too much potential to screw up lineages and really tick off players.

Edited October 26, 2011 by Dr. Paine

[stogucheme]

DNS. Too confusing.

[dragon_mando]

No thanks. It's too complicated and probably way too much work to code. I like the simplicity in breeding right now.

[Obscure_Trash]

If I breed two dragons together it's because I want one of those two dragons.

 

No from me. ^^

[AutumnStars]

It seems like a lot of people don't like this idea... That's ok, I kinda figured most wouldn't. The Dragon Cave community is very hard to please! >.<

[Fuzzbucket]

It seems like a lot of people don't like this idea... That's ok, I kinda figured most wouldn't. The Dragon Cave community is very hard to please! >.<

Well - when it comes to something that makes lineage planning even tougher - are you surprised, with the breeding drought there has been ??

 

As a matter of interest - why would it be "cool" ?

 

If I breed two dragons together it's because I want one of those two dragons.

 

No from me. ^^

Me too. (Also I seem to recall TJ saying once in another genetics thread - this isn't the first time this has come up - that genetics of this sort was borderline uncodable...)

[Shinobimasterz]

it would be good in a genetical way, but no good in this game

it would only be good if we had hybrids and dihybrids

which is like hell no

 

so you're saying

that an egg can become grandparent's species but it's no good because less than 10% DNA comes exactly from grandparents

[Fuzzbucket]

it would be good in a genetical way, but no good in this game

it would only be good if we had hybrids and dihybrids

which is like hell no

 

so you're saying

that an egg can become grandparent's species but it's no good because less than 10% DNA comes exactly from grandparents

That can work, actually - as in very occasionally an apparently white couple give birth to a black child because one of them has black genes from way back. And as in I haz my GREAT grandmother's weird eye colour, not seen in the family since hers....

 

But for this game, I think no.

[Shinobimasterz]

That can work, actually - as in very occasionally an apparently white couple give birth to a black child because one of them has black genes from way back. And as in I haz my GREAT grandmother's weird eye colour, not seen in the family since hers....

 

But for this game, I think no.

it wouldn't be good, because if you have for instance 2 pairs of dogs, 4 dogs in total, 2 male and 2 female, and one male is black, 3 of them are white

 

i'll take labradors because their colors don't mix

 

so, you get offspring

white1 x white1 = white3

black2 x white2 = white4 or black4

 

if you take the white3 x white4 and white3 x black4 you cant get a black whatsoever

genetical code

white1 = AAAA

white2= AAAA and black2= bbbb

 

result

white4 = AAAA

black4 = AAbb

 

final result

AAAb

 

Edited October 26, 2011 by Shinobimasterz

[Fuzzbucket]

I believe recessive genes CAN win out occasionally. But still, not for this game.

[Shinobimasterz]

I believe recessive genes CAN win out occasionally. But still, not for this game.

it's mutations, it's not codable as it's totally random

and recessive genes can win only if it's AAbb not AAAb

 

when an AAAb and b genes wins, it's only 0.01 procent and it happens like never

 

that's why in a batch of 10 Black x White labradors you migh fight only 1-2 blacks, and maybe even none

[Fuzzbucket]

This assuming only a single gene is at issue, which is why it is FAR more complicated than that - and as I said in the first place - uncodable.

 

As an aside, that is also weird, as I see FAR more black labs than white in the UK....

[Shinobimasterz]

This assuming only a single gene is at issue, which is why it is FAR more complicated than that - and as I said in the first place - uncodable.

 

As an aside, that is also weird, as I see FAR more black labs than white in the UK....

black labradors are more desirable, they're mostly black x black

and it's 4 different genes, that's why it's XXxx

 

ofcourse it isn't so easy, but this is easily definable

theres for instance, eyes

AbAb where we have heterochromia which can also be AbAA and then you get spots on eyes, you have a brown eye with a big blue spot

and when it comes to single components it will always be XXxx chromosomes, never more

 

it's 23 chromosomes 46dna strands

each chromosome can have multiple genes for different stuff, but its always 2 of them

 

if it's more, you're a mutant

 

but remember, most of the DNA strand carries genes for body build, not for body looks

[perzephone]

As a BSA, I don't see why not.

 

If you didn't want to use it, you just wouldn't use it.

 

But what breed would have that kind of influence over genetics? White/Healers maybe?

[lightningsky]

If I breed two dragons together it's because I want one of those two dragons.

 

No from me. ^^

i have to agree with this. this is prolly the only reason why i shoot this down.

 

oh and BSA...well i don't see any dragon in the cave currently that has power over genetics, and i don't see how a dragon could do that. though in a world of "magic" it might be possible, but not with any of the breeds we have now.

 

i think the only close thing we have is the bred-only species like shallow waters, blunas, and geodes. and those are just crosses, nothing to do with past genes.

[annageckos]

I personally love genetics, and I play another game with genetics involved. Including recessive traits and random mutations. So it is not impossible to code at all. I wouldn't mind seeing genetics added to this game, I think it would add something to DC. But I am also fine if it stays the way it is now.

[WraithZephyr]

I do believe at one point TJ said that true genetics will NOT be a part of the game so no Recessive traits - not ever likely going to happen. We really only have dominate/co-dom traits to work with.

 

Dominate: offspring will always be the same as one of the parents

 

Co-Dom: the so-called "hybrids" - i.e. pebble x stone = geode, water x magi = goldfish, etc.

 

the descriptions are not the true definition by scientific standards, but good enough generally speaking for applying to the DC game.

Edited October 26, 2011 by WraithZephyr

[Renorei]

I think I would actually really enjoy this. It was once listed on the "Do Not Suggest" list and I think TJ has said before that it's not something he wants to do or is able to do, but TJ has also stated that he wants us to support, or not support, an idea based on whether we like rather than because we think he doesn't like it. So--I'll give my honest opinion.

 

I think it would add a new element of fun to the game. Imagine breeding two 2nd gen blacks together and you end up with a gold because one of them has a gold grandparent. What a nice surprise that would be! On the other hand, maybe one of them has a pebble grandparent and you end up with a pebble. That would be a disappointment, and it would seem pointless to the player. But, there are some aspects of the game that are pointless in my opinion. Like refusals between dragons that can breed year round. It serves no purpose and all it does is irritate players and throw off their plans. But I see no reason to believe this is an aspect of the game that will ever be taken out. If you end up with an egg from an ancestor's breed (and it's not something you want), I would chalk that up to luck-of-the-draw just like you might end up "unlucky" and your carefully planned mates refuse each other and you have to try again. At least if you end up with an unwanted throwback egg, you could always breed again the next week.

 

My only caveat here is that if this is something that is ever implemented, I would prefer for the chance to breed a prior ancestor to be taken out of the chance to breed whichever parent is more common rather than whichever parent is more rare. For instance, let's say I'm breeding a 2nd gen pink with pebbleXpink parents to a 2nd gen gold with goldXblack parents. Let's assume that as things are right now, I have a 5% chance of producing a gold and a 95% chance of producing a pink (if an egg is bred at all). If we introduce additional possibilities of producing pebble and black eggs, that chance should come from the pink's share. So I should still have a 5% chance of making a gold, but maybe now I only have an 91% chance of making a pink and a 2% chance (each) of making a pebble or black.

[olympe]

so you're saying

that an egg can become grandparent's species but it's no good because less than 10% DNA comes exactly from grandparents

Where did you get your numbers? From what I remember about genetics, you can have any amount between 0% and 50% of your genes from either grandparent. The average would be 25%, though. Even from each of your great-grandparents, you'd get roughly 12.5% of your genes.

 

(0%/50%: If your mother only passes on the genes from her mother, you'll have 50% of your grandmother's genes, but 0% of your grandfather's.)

Edited October 26, 2011 by olympe

[ThatDeadGirl]

This has been brought up before and shot down for many reasons. The main one, and the one I site as my reason for not wanting it, is that DC doesn't get very in depth with genetics. I know it's interesting to some people, but not me. Genetics doesn't play a big part in the cave because TJ didn't want it to. It's a game. For the most part it's an easy game. I'd like to keep it that way. I don't want som dragon from 8 gens back popping up again when I'm breeding nothing that vaguely resembles what I'm breeding.

[Princess Artemis]

If I breed two dragons together it's because I want one of those two dragons.

 

No from me. ^^

My opinion in a nutshell, barring Blunas, etc.

[Sundew]

I support this. Although it would be more difficult for lineages, it would, as Renorei said, add a new element of fun and risk to DC. I'm sure many players could easily use it to their advantage. And if it were rare, as was suggested, it would interfere less with lineages and such. It has several flaws, but I think it would be useful in the long run.

[Shinobimasterz]

Where did you get your numbers? From what I remember about genetics, you can have any amount between 0% and 50% of your genes from either grandparent. The average would be 25%, though. Even from each of your great-grandparents, you'd get roughly 12.5% of your genes.

 

(0%/50%: If your mother only passes on the genes from her mother, you'll have 50% of your grandmother's genes, but 0% of your grandfather's.)

at school mostly

 

The DNA strand inherited from grandparents goes through crossing over phase two times and that's why the code remains at most 10% of the greatparent DNA is preserved in original way, had it been without the crossing over, it would stay between 0-50%

[Stromboli]

I'd rather not. If I breed a silver and a gold together, I don't want a random Balloon from one of their lineages to show up. I want a silver or a gold. Hence why I'm breeding them.