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However, we assume our way is the only way and don't spend time medeating and we get involved when we don't know the entire story.

Exactly what I'm talking about. This, right here, is foolishness.

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By 'It won't effect us,' I meant, 'We shouldn't give them a reason to use them on us by getting in the middle of things and telling people what to do.' I firmly blame the warmongering aspect of American culture.

 

I'd also just like to point out a time we did opt to say things happening outside of our country was not our concern for actually dealing with. Our only involvement in this event was providing supplies, and that was in no violation of any agreement between us and the various nations that had started tearing into each other.

 

This event is known as "World War II". I'm pretty sure you remember how that worked out. I think that's about the point where America decided once and for all just "staying out of it" was, point blank, a bad idea. Generally when a tactic fails massively once, it doesn't get used again.

 

Also: We do use mediation or we'd be in even more wars. Unfortunately, diplomacy can fail too. And in the case of Syria, the situation is considerably more complicated than just failed diplomacy. The US is not the only country poised to move if those weapons get used.

Edited by Kyrieath

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And in the case of Syria, the situation is considerably more complicated than just failed diplomacy. The US is not the only country poised to move if those weapons get used.

Which other countries are as vocal about it as the US?

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Which other countries are as vocal about it as the US?

If you can read French or know someone who can translate it for you, look up a few of their news sites. Browse a few of the UK's too. If you've access to other languages- try looking up Israeli and Turkish news.

 

If you're waiting to hear about these countries' efforts through US media, however, you'll be waiting a long, long time. They might mention the other countries, but they'll focus pretty much 100% on what the US is doing/saying. Gotta go to other countries' news sites if you want their side of the story.

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See, I'm not sure that in the case of the US even that would be able to support the kind of taxation I've seen being suggested. And then there does come the argument of would it be fair to cut taxes for the most well off (if only to bring them in line with what the least-well off are paying) when the least well off are often struggling to survive.

If we got rid of most of our "defense" budget, most unconstitutional federal agencies, especially the DEA, and basically got rid of everything except what the constitution says the national government can do, we would need increased taxes for sure, and I'd say there's a good chance we could lower taxes. I agree that tax loopholes need to be closed. No one making a ridiculous amount of money needs to pay LESS of his income, percentage wise, in tax than a poor person does. That's absolutely ridiculous. I just don't think that increased taxes are the only answer. We have the radical alternative of letting the states handle their own programs as they see fit, and as they can afford, while the federal government *gasp* FOLLOWS THE CONSTITUTION! xd.png

 

 

Don't mind me, just a disgruntled sort-of-libertarian pretending my opinion matters...

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If you can read French or know someone who can translate it for you, look up a few of their news sites. Browse a few of the UK's too. If you've access to other languages- try looking up Israeli and Turkish news.

 

If you're waiting to hear about these countries' efforts through US media, however, you'll be waiting a long, long time. They might mention the other countries, but they'll focus pretty much 100% on what the US is doing/saying. Gotta go to other countries' news sites if you want their side of the story.

AlJazeera is good. Fox news says it lies, so you know it has to be biggrin.gif

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AlJazeera is good. Fox news says it lies, so you know it has to be biggrin.gif

Pfft- don't get me started on Fox News. xd.png

 

But yes- there's many news sites out there beyond US ones such as AlJazeera; always worth reading them and cross referencing like mad. Go by US articles alone, and you'd think the US was ruling all world decisions. Influencing? Sure. Ruling? No, last I looked other countries were certainly more than capable of making their own decisions and quite vocal about them.

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Which other countries are as vocal about it as the US?

Turkey and Israel seem to be the Most active right now. Turkey is the only Country that interfered so far. The only one i know of. Germany and france(?) sent missiles to turkey in Order to help Turkey to defend its border, refudgee Camps at or close to its border and so on. other countries offered to Host negotiations.

 

About being Vokal, EU is very vocal, so is NATO, but what Happens After interfering in styria? Who, would you put in charge? The old goverment, thats corrupt but defended syrias minorities? A new goverment thats likley Not to so so? if there are elections what Happens if the West doesnt like the outcome? It could destabilisier the area, Cause a civil war following the war now. Look at After wwI Look at Ägypt being vocal or Endung the comFlughafen by Shire power is just the Beginning, who is Abel to Face the responsibility?

 

This Therad is about American politics ist it? Id realy Love to read about World politics, but a few Days ago a Therad for that was closed due to being a Duplikate so i guess ist Would be ok to Discuss politics on a Bigger scale Here?

Edited by ana3

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Well, Syria and stuff does effect the US because the US is threatening to get involved if those bombs are made.

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Well, how do you all like the Fiscal Cliff Deal Cuts?

 

http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/01/02/fi...26pLid%3D251930

 

Looks like we will all see a difference in our pay checks. I hope this makes people happy. Obama said it would not affect the lower class, but it is. I hate the lies, and that is all he does is lie.

 

Social Security was allowed to expire. That affects me!!! By golly I have worked many years and to have this done to people who have worked and payed in is a slap in the face to the American people.

 

Talk about Equality, well, how is it the rich get picked on. It is amazing that others like to take from the rich, but they themselves do not feel they owe any contributions ... as long as it does not come out of their pockets, they are happy.

 

Just wait until Obamacare comes into full force.

 

 

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Just wait until Obamacare comes into full force.

Just wait until people actually understand what it will mean in terms of being able to get the healthcare they need. FoxNews and others have deliberately misrepresented it all along - being as they get so much money form insurance companies advertising....

Edited by fuzzbucket

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Well, how do you all like the Fiscal Cliff Deal Cuts?

 

http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/01/02/fi...26pLid%3D251930

 

Looks like we will all see a difference in our pay checks. I hope this makes people happy. Obama said it would not affect the lower class, but it is. I hate the lies, and that is all he does is lie.

 

Social Security was allowed to expire. That affects me!!! By golly I have worked many years and to have this done to people who have worked and payed in is a slap in the face to the American people.

 

Talk about Equality, well, how is it the rich get picked on. It is amazing that others like to take from the rich, but they themselves do not feel they owe any contributions ... as long as it does not come out of their pockets, they are happy.

 

Just wait until Obamacare comes into full force.

I suppose asking if you were aware that tax rises of some description were inevitable is a little pointless? Given that you don't ever seem to want to discuss or back up any of these random points you post up.

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Y'know, SS would be screwed no matter who got into office--it's not a sudden thing that's just started happening. People have been saying my generation wouldn't see a cent of it for longer than Obama's been in office. So, that's not like it's magically his fault.

 

Also I love how you claim you hate the lies. You DO realize Romney was lying through his teeth at points, right? It's unfortunate, but a good majority of politicians DO lie or misrepresent or manipulate the facts to get their way. Very few are 100% honest 100% of the time.

 

 

ETA: The rich get picked on because the poor get censorkip.gif ed over. So, I'd say that's rather fair. 'sides, I'm happy to pay in my fair share. It's needed to keep things running, after all. I rather enjoy having things like roads and whatnot.

Edited by KageSora

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Well, how do you all like the Fiscal Cliff Deal Cuts?

 

http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/01/02/fi...26pLid%3D251930

 

Looks like we will all see a difference in our pay checks. I hope this makes people happy. Obama said it would not affect the lower class, but it is. I hate the lies, and that is all he does is lie.

 

Social Security was allowed to expire. That affects me!!! By golly I have worked many years and to have this done to people who have worked and payed in is a slap in the face to the American people.

 

Talk about Equality, well, how is it the rich get picked on. It is amazing that others like to take from the rich, but they themselves do not feel they owe any contributions ... as long as it does not come out of their pockets, they are happy.

 

Just wait until Obamacare comes into full force.

I don't like it. I wanted all the taxes cuts to expire. The Bush tax cuts have cost us trillions of dollars and no one can prove that absolutely ridiculous theory that tax cuts magically pay for themselves. And the act of not repealing them once we started two wars was beyond irresponsible.

 

Unfortunately, we can't afford to let the tax cuts expire on the middle class now, not because it will stimulate them all to start businesses or whatever, but because we now pay our middle class so much less that a huge portion of them can't take a lot more economic pressure.

 

Kat, when you talk about the rich, I have to ask - do you know that they're the only ones who have consistently benefitted throughout all of this economic turmoil? That as wages have steadly, for years, decreased, their portion of wealth has shot up? And that includes the very people who helped to destabalize out economy.

 

I don't understand the position you hold. There has been a massive redistribution of wealth in this country, but it's upwards. The majority of money is going up the ladder, largely due to tax breaks and corporate subsidies, and the kind of deregulation and allowance of shadowy business practices that created the systemic fiscal crisis we just lived through.

 

On thing about America is beyond clear - we don't have a problem with rich people not getting richer and richer and richer. That is totally not even in the realm of what is realistically happening in our economy.

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I don't like it. I wanted all the taxes cuts to expire. The Bush tax cuts have cost us trillions of dollars and no one can prove that absolutely ridiculous theory that tax cuts magically pay for themselves. And the act of not repealing them once we started two wars was beyond irresponsible.

 

Unfortunately, we can't afford to let the tax cuts expire on the middle class now, not because it will stimulate them all to start businesses or whatever, but because we now pay our middle class so much less that a huge portion of them can't take a lot more economic pressure.

 

Kat, when you talk about the rich, I have to ask - do you know that they're the only ones who have consistently benefitted throughout all of this economic turmoil? That as wages have steadly, for years, decreased, their portion of wealth has shot up? And that includes the very people who helped to destabalize out economy.

 

I don't understand the position you hold. There has been a massive redistribution of wealth in this country, but it's upwards. The majority of money is going up the ladder, largely due to tax breaks and corporate subsidies, and the kind of deregulation and allowance of shadowy business practices that created the systemic fiscal crisis we just lived through.

 

On thing about America is beyond clear - we don't have a problem with rich people not getting richer and richer and richer. That is totally not even in the realm of what is realistically happening in our economy.

Not only do I agree with Skauble but I have to chip in, I can attest for the rich getting richer and the middle class fighting to have necessities sometimes. My family is living paycheck to paycheck so I can go to school, most of the people I know at my school come from america's upper class and don't really understand what its like to live pay check to pay check. I got asked why I wore some of the same things a lot, its because I can't afford to have 100+ outfits and I like what I was wearing to pair down my college stuff.

 

But really, my parents have two more children to send off, and depending on the institution my youngest sister may feel the constraints of living paycheck to paycheck for a while :/

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Yeeees. I did read that the first time you posted it. A single online report tells me nothing of whether or not you are aware of what the fiscal cliff is/was, or the State of the National finances in the US though. Seriously. Although nice one about proving my point that you don't actually respond there. Just more links with no real thought behind them.

 

Taxes were going to have to go up somewhere, or the US was going to have to go even more into debt. Those were the only options. Which would be why the Republicans finally agreed to it.

 

I still can't work out how anyone thinks that you can spend you way out of a financial hole. It doesn't work on a personal level, I fail to see why it should work on a national one. If there's debt, you do two things (usually simultaneously) try to cut expenditure, and try to increase income. The US has a big debt hole to get out of, and even massive budget cuts wouldn't make enough of a difference for tax rises to be completely avoided.

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ETA: The rich get picked on because the poor get censorkip.gif ed over. So, I'd say that's rather fair. 'sides, I'm happy to pay in my fair share. It's needed to keep things running, after all. I rather enjoy having things like roads and whatnot.

Amen !

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TikindiDragon, if you do not think I know what the fiscal cliff is/or was, that is your right. I do not mind at all. I will reply mainly to the links I put on or anyone else puts on. I am not going to debate with any of you, as we see things so differently and that is also your right.

 

Fiscal Cliff Deal Sneaked In Wall Street Gifts, NASCAR Perk

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/02/f...26pLid%3D252378

 

Social Security just took a hike and Medicare to has increased

 

I wonder when the Senate snuck all this in the bill, with a lot of money going to Pelosi's husband that owns a lot of stock in one of these companies, was it to help Pelosi and her hubby, makes one wonder.

 

I am so sorry that the middle class has been hit with this.

 

Like my salary will be hit with a tax increase now, how nice. I sometimes to live pay check to pay check at times. I bet there are a lot of people who voted for Obama that are mad as wet hens now. Obama to me has lied to the American people. Just glad I was not one of the ones who voted for him as I would be kicking myself.

 

Wow, now Estate Tax's are up to 40%. Lets rape these people who earned this money, and the government thinks they are entitled to it, that is theft plain and simple in my eyes.

 

I talked to some of my friends at work whose children voted for Obama and they still do not have jobs, but yet they talk outside their mouths, and have no idea what they are talking about since they can not be taxed yet. That just irrates their parents and as well as me, as they do not know what they are talking about period. How can they since they do not even work, but yet they seem to know it all.

 

Can't wait till they get jobs and then they can see how all of this is going to cut into their wants and desires.

 

I also have read, that the people who give to different organizations are going to stop giving. Well, now that is really going to put the hurt on some of these poor people that need help.

 

Keep on taxing the rich, and you will see a lot of what will start to happen, and it is not going to be pretty. The rich people are not responsible for all the rest of the people in this country. They do not work for all the people who think they are entitled for the wealth to be spread around. If people want better, go to work those that can instead of sitting on thier rears expecting handouts. People had better stop dropping out of school to in this country to and get an education.

 

These are just my thoughts as I keep finding out things in the Fiscal Cliff Deal.

These are not my thoughts to debate or to argue with any of you.

 

 

 

 

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Oh yes, that's what we need to do, we need to all just get an education. There's definitely not tons of graduated students jobless and suffering under student loans. What are people supposed to do who can't afford an education? Not everyone just "drops out." Should we borrow money from our parents?

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Keep on taxing the rich, and you will see a lot of what will start to happen, and it is not going to be pretty. The rich people are not responsible for all the rest of the people in this country. They do not work for all the people who think they are entitled for the wealth to be spread around. If people want better, go to work those that can instead of sitting on thier rears expecting handouts. People had better stop dropping out of school to in this country to and get an education.

Just going to jump in here really quick.

 

I'd like to mention that no, the rich aren't responsible for all of the other people in the country. Not them in particular. I'd personally like to think that every American is responsible for the rest of the country through whatever mean they can offer - but some would argue with me on that, so this is only my personal opinion.

 

I'd also like to mention that many of those who can work are forced to "sit on their rears" and "expect handouts" because even some of the lowest-paying jobs in this country require degrees - and many of those that don't require degrees would seem to prefer to hire younger applicants. The older people who didn't finish college before this all happened had no idea what the job requirements would be in the future. Add the cost of education and you've got a full-blown mess.

 

Aaaaand just going to jump on out.

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Keep on taxing the rich, and you will see a lot of what will start to happen, and it is not going to be pretty. The rich people are not responsible for all the rest of the people in this country. They do not work for all the people who think they are entitled for the wealth to be spread around. If people want better, go to work those that can instead of sitting on thier rears expecting handouts. People had better stop dropping out of school to in this country to and get an education.

Yes, they should totally get to rig the system so they get the vast majority of the wealth and then complain when they get taxed at Clinton era rates when they were still totally able to build more wealth.

 

The fetishism of the wealthy and the disdain for the workers is part of what's killing off the Republican party.

 

Speaking of which, what are people's opinions of the move to postpone the Sandy relief bill?

 

Honestly, I can see some of where Boehner was coming from - the House just passed the fiscal cliff bill and he might not have wanted to push them with more spending. But I have to wonder if this is going to come back and bit them in two years.

 

It has to be noted that, when taken in total, the Dems recieved more votes for the House than Republicans. And while that doesn't mean there will necessarily be a change in House make up in 2014, it does signal the demographic shift that people are talking about - especially considering that they picked up seats after the map redraw.

 

Frankly, I think that the Dems are going to push hard on fund raising and then they're going to use the massive ground game network that Obama set up to try to win over some of the more moderate districts. As the numbers stand now it's 201 Dems and 234 Repubs. That means that the Democrats would need to pick up 17 more seats for a majority (although barely one lol).

 

I believe that there's 26 Republican reps in the north east. One has to wonder if, in an area that was so effected by the hurricane, gets the brunt of the ongoing coverage of the relief efforts, and has to wonder when the next superstorm will hit, if that's going to shift some votes.

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Yes, they should totally get to rig the system so they get the vast majority of the wealth and then complain when they get taxed at Clinton era rates when they were still totally able to build more wealth.

 

The fetishism of the wealthy and the disdain for the workers is part of what's killing off the Republican party.

 

 

I believe that there's 26 Republican reps in the north east. One has to wonder if, in an area that was so effected by the hurricane, gets the brunt of the ongoing coverage of the relief efforts, and has to wonder when the next superstorm will hit, if that's going to shift some votes.

QFT.

 

The rich just want everyone to believe they will be hard up if this and that, as what they REALLY want is to keep THEIR money and screw over the workers by forcing them to pay for things like - medical insurance that brings them loads of dividends, and education paid for with loads from banks that (see above) and so on.

 

Warren Buffet had the right idea - though also probably his own agenda.

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Keep on taxing the rich, and you will see a lot of what will start to happen, and it is not going to be pretty. The rich people are not responsible for all the rest of the people in this country. They do not work for all the people who think they are entitled for the wealth to be spread around.

As long as a tiny percentage of the population has their hands on a very large percentage of the money that's available, they should also have to bear the brunt of taxation - because where else is the money going to come from? If the money was divided more equally, so could be taxation.

 

Also: They can be rich (and usually grow more wealthy each day) BECAUSE there are poorer people doing all the menial work, the minimum-wage jobs... pay them fairly, they could pay more taxes, too (but that would, of course, mean that profits would go down - go figure).

 

Edited to correct the quote origin - sorry fuzzbucket and ~Kat~, I don't know how that got mixed up.

Edited by Rewolluzza

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As long as a tiny percentage of the population has their hands on a very large percentage of the money that's available, they should also have to bear the brunt of taxation - because where else is the money going to come from? If the money was divided more equally, so could be taxation.

 

Also: They can be rich (and usually grow more wealthy each day) BECAUSE there are poorer people doing all the menial work, the minimum-wage jobs... pay them fairly, they could pay more taxes, too (but that would, of course, mean that profits would go down - go figure).

RIGHT ON !

 

(But that quote with my name attached wasn't mine; it was ~Kat~'s and DIRECTLY opposite to my POV.) (ETA thank you !)

Edited by fuzzbucket

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