American Politics

[Fuzzbucket]

I believe the 50% tax band is being reduced to 45% in the next tax year fuzz. And, yes, I do think the UK should adopt the same principle as the US in having UK tax apply to worldwide assets of UK residents. There's a lot of technically legal tax evasion going on among higher earners.

 

@ Kestra - If I remember cprrectly doesn't that mean you haven't been accruing an NI stamp in that entire time?

I think Greece is inspired. I don't know if they are still doing it, but because of tax evasion they started to collect income tax via your electricity bill ! BRILLIANT ! You no pay, you no have power... Talk about an incentive.

 

It annoys me, too - that poor people are the ones who cannot find ways to evade tax. If the rich get away with it - so should they.

 

(No, I agree; no-one should evade - or be able to evade - tax - but it is another way that the rich always get more than the poor.)

[Awdz]

I like the idea of flat tax on everything over 2x poverty threshold level, no tax under it. That way those who need the money most can use it while those with expendable income can blooming well pay their share for the priviledge of opulence. And yes, it would include *all* gains.

Edited November 22, 2012 by Awdz Bodkins

[Syaoransbear]

I've honestly never encountered a high earner that didn't do some form of tax avoidance or evasion so they didn't have to pay their fair share of taxes. My FIL does it because he makes a lot as a surgeon, and my ex's father does it because he owns his own business. I'm pretty sure the truly rich are even worse about it. I doubt there are any honest rich people out there who don't do something to avoid paying what they are supposed to.

[brairtrainer]

we;; this took off during the night. Comming in to add, I like the flat tax principal but as I stated earlier there needs to be a threshold where you don't pay it and an appeals system for families having major medical expenses through the year (to the ammount that it would make them impossible to pay the tax) or long terms of unemployment.

[Fuzzbucket]

we;; this took off during the night. Comming in to add, I like the flat tax principal but as I stated earlier there needs to be a threshold where you don't pay it and an appeals system for families having major medical expenses through the year (to the ammount that it would make them impossible to pay the tax) or long terms of unemployment.

If you add in negative income tax (as in Canada) you can request reimbursement of extraordinary essential expenses. When I was flat broke and my daughter needed fancy orthodontics - and I do mean NEEDED - she couldn't bite into an apple or anything, and got bad headaches) I was able to write in how much that cost and at least some of it came back.

 

But if you couple this tax with universal health care - I THINK even that would have been free in the UK.

[TikindiDragon]

If you add in negative income tax (as in Canada) you can request reimbursement of extraordinary essential expenses. When I was flat broke and my daughter needed fancy orthodontics - and I do mean NEEDED - she couldn't bite into an apple or anything, and got bad headaches) I was able to write in how much that cost and at least some of it came back.

 

But if you couple this tax with universal health care - I THINK even that would have been free in the UK.

If she was in full tie education then, yes, that orthodontic care would have been completely free. And even if she wasn't it would still have been heavily subsidised.

 

@ briar. The tax in the UK comes out of your paycheck before the money reaches you (unless you are self employed, but I freely admit to knowing nothing about that particular part of the system). Which means you don't ever see that money. It's not like it comes in, then you have to send the money to the government out of your own pocket - it just *never* goes via your bank account. Essentially the tax is paid before you are, which means if you are an employee it's impossible for you to be unable to pay your taxes. You may find you can't pay for other things, depending on your expenditure, but you can't end up in a situation where there's no money to pay your taxes.

 

Health-care expenses in the US are a whole 'nother ball game. And, as I think I have stated before, your health-care system is frankly disgusting. In the UK example your taxes also pay *all* your healthcare expenses, so there's no such thing as 'major medical expenses' unless you've eloected to go private (and the only people who elect to go private over here are the ones with a lot of money to throw at it).

[brairtrainer]

Here in the US that happens as well, only your employer takes it out to and sends it in, then after you file you may find that enough wasn't taken out then you have to pay, or that too much was taken hence a tax return. Though in a case of a tax return it normally also happens when you can rack up enough tax credits to cover your taxes and then some. I'm currently in a situation where my job isn't taxed because I'm payed below minimum wage, work for my school, and was hired after they could not find anyone else who needed a job as part of a work study program which this job is normally limited too.

[TikindiDragon]

Here in the US that happens as well, only your employer takes it out to and sends it in, then after you file you may find that enough wasn't taken out then you have to pay, or  that too much was taken hence a tax return. Though in a case of a tax return it normally also happens when you can rack up enough tax credits to cover your taxes and then some. I'm currently in a situation where my job isn't taxed because I'm payed below minimum wage, work for my school, and was hired after they could not find anyone else who needed a job as part of a work study program which this job is normally limited too.

I can honestly say I've never filed a tax return in my life. It's not something you have to do in the UK unless you are self employed. I did get a nice rebate once, though, as a result of changing jobs. Started the new job, and got a letter from the tax office saying "We haven't heard from you in the last five years.". I was like, 'uh, no, I've been in full time employment and taxes have been coming out my paycheck', so I sent them copies of a load of payslips and all my P60s (end of year tax summary from the company). Turns out the company I'd work for previously had cocked something up when I first started working for them I got about £6000 back, though, which was nice. I think the tax office probably expected me to owe them money, though.

 

Edited to add: And the moral of this story - it really is worth keeping all those old payslips. At least for a decade or so.

Edited November 22, 2012 by TikindiDragon

[Kestra15]

o be fair (I too worked in the NHS !) isn't that partly because of your voluntary work ? Correct me (stamp on my head !) if I'm wrong and you were full time in the NHS. )

At full-time work I was barely scrapping minimum wage - I just slotted the voluntary work around the side.

[Fuzzbucket]

At full-time work I was barely scrapping minimum wage - I just slotted the voluntary work around the side.

OK - stamp on my head.

 

*lies down and waits patiently*

 

Even in Public Health I was well over minimum wage ! And I was never in clinical areas - I thought you guys did better than admin (so called) people.

[Kestra15]

OK - stamp on my head.

 

*lies down and waits patiently*

 

Even in Public Health I was well over minimum wage ! And I was never in clinical areas - I thought you guys did better than admin (so called) people.

No head-stamping :~)

 

Nope, I was bottom-end Band II, so the only person earning less than me was the cleaner who'd only been there a year.

[Fuzzbucket]

No head-stamping :~)

 

Nope, I was bottom-end Band II, so the only person earning less than me was the cleaner who'd only been there a year.

Wow. But aren't you clinical ?

[Kestra15]

Wow. But aren't you clinical ?

Yup.

[Fuzzbucket]

Yup.

I am - gobsmacked.

 

Oh well, live and learn. Under A4C I was to take a 30% paycut (I appealed and won - and then quit as I was so pissed off and so was my manager !) - I imagine you'd have gone up...

[PointOfOrigin]

I'm bumping this with an article for discussion.

 

God and country

 

So, any thought about those up coming republicans? I personally find it scary, that persons who weren't exposed to a free exchange of ideas will have shots at any high ranking places, but that's just me.

[Fuzzbucket]

I'm bumping this with an article for discussion.

 

God and country

 

So, any thought about those up coming republicans? I personally find it scary, that persons who weren't exposed to a free exchange of ideas will have shots at any high ranking places, but that's just me.

That's not just you. *stands by PointOfOrigin and holds hands*

[KageSora]

I'm bumping this with an article for discussion.

 

God and country

 

So, any thought about those up coming republicans? I personally find it scary, that persons who weren't exposed to a free exchange of ideas will have shots at any high ranking places, but that's just me.

...That's really terrifying.

[Brite]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/14/l..._n_1277182.html

 

I'm not too happy with the huge cut backs. I've had to use to my own money out of my savings to pay for most of these back in senior year of high school. I'm not sure if either side has metioned this in politics or working on fixing this since schools are beginning to sue the states

 

Even though I've graduated, my school is beginning to get hit hard

[CrossingStar]

I'm bumping this with an article for discussion.

 

God and country

 

So, any thought about those up coming republicans? I personally find it scary, that persons who weren't exposed to a free exchange of ideas will have shots at any high ranking places, but that's just me.

How scary! I don't like the fact that Republicans practically ran things before the election.

[philpot123]

I'm bumping this with an article for discussion.

 

God and country

 

So, any thought about those up coming republicans? I personally find it scary, that persons who weren't exposed to a free exchange of ideas will have shots at any high ranking places, but that's just me.

 

Funny, I was just reading that article not 5 minutes ago

 

I'm homeschooled. I've been exposed to free exchange of ideas. Homeschooling is not as insular as everyone assumes it to be. It's true, there are those that are completely isolated and have no exposure to alternative ideas, but as that article said, the professors address that swiftly. "Because Bible" and "mommy said so" are not legitimate answers, even at a Christian college.

 

Stacey, who has a Ph.D. in government from the University of Virginia, told me that he loved Patrick Henry, because the students “really want to be here, which is very satisfying for a professor.” He is an evangelical Christian, but he worries that his students sometimes revert to jargon they picked up from their parents, “that the nation’s founders just fell out of Heaven, that America is a Christian Nation, capital ‘C’ capital ‘N.’ I want them to understand that these are myths, that the claims they’re making are superficial.” When he asks his students to defend a position, Stacey said, “ ‘The Bible says so’ is never the answer.” Read more: http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/06/2...t#ixzz2DOWSjBlI

 

Beyond this, a growing section of the homeschooling movement is making such educational choices not out of a religious or political motivation but purely an academic one. I'll find the statistic somewhere, but it may even be the majority of homeschoolers that responded to the polls that claim a primary motivation that is not religious.

 

Homeschooling a recipe for academic success, via the Washington Times

 

Point being, one cannot assume that because one has been homeschooled or one attends a Christian college that there is no "free exchange" of ideas. Debates are encouraged, alternative theories studied, etc. That's one of the benefits of homeschooling.

 

 

I'm sure most of you will find it amusing, predictable, and fitting that I will be attending PHC in the fall however, even I will be in the minority there, with my libertarian-leaning political ideals and Reformed theology. I categorically reject the popular statist Republicanism that it appears many of the students hold, and I will not be part of the Republican party "machine" by any means.

Edited November 27, 2012 by philpot123

[Obscure_Trash]

That's a flat tax.

 

I'm surprisingly one of the few people here who doesn't seem to like it.

I don't like it either. I could go into why, but I've ranted about this enough on another forum and I'm sure you understand why I don't like it, anyway.

[7Deadly$ins]

Funny, I was just reading that article not 5 minutes ago

 

I'm homeschooled. I've been exposed to free exchange of ideas. Homeschooling is not as insular as everyone assumes it to be. It's true, there are those that are completely isolated and have no exposure to alternative ideas, but as that article said, the professors address that swiftly. "Because Bible" and "mommy said so" are not legitimate answers, even at a Christian college.

 

 

 

Beyond this, a growing section of the homeschooling movement is making such educational choices not out of a religious or political motivation but purely an academic one. I'll find the statistic somewhere, but it may even be the majority of homeschoolers that responded to the polls that claim a primary motivation that is not religious.

 

Homeschooling a recipe for academic success, via the Washington Times

 

Point being, one cannot assume that because one has been homeschooled or one attends a Christian college that there is no "free exchange" of ideas. Debates are encouraged, alternative theories studied, etc. That's one of the benefits of homeschooling.

 

 

I'm sure most of you will find it amusing, predictable, and fitting that I will be attending PHC in the fall however, even I will be in the minority there, with my libertarian-leaning political ideals and Reformed theology. I categorically reject the popular statist Republicanism that it appears many of the students hold, and I will not be part of the Republican party "machine" by any means.

Funny, I was just reading that article not 5 minutes ago

 

I'm homeschooled. I've been exposed to free exchange of ideas. Homeschooling is not as insular as everyone assumes it to be. It's true, there are those that are completely isolated and have no exposure to alternative ideas, but as that article said, the professors address that swiftly. "Because Bible" and "mommy said so" are not legitimate answers, even at a Christian college.

 

It also mentioned what a hard time it was getting people to stop parroting the same myths their parents have repeated over and over.

[hazeh]

Okay so.... someone want to explain to me why flat taxes are bad?

[Fuzzbucket]

Okay so.... someone want to explain to me why flat taxes are bad?

Because they do hit the poor harder than the rich. MUCH harder. If you have 15k a year, losing 20% of that basically puts you in starvation mode. I'm OK-ish with it as long as there is a no-tax safety net at the bottom - though I would still like the VERY rich to pay proportionately more. Most of them got rich on the backs of the poor, after all !

[brairtrainer]

Because they do hit the poor harder than the rich. MUCH harder. If you have 15k a year, losing 20% of that basically puts you in starvation mode. I'm OK-ish with it as long as there is a no-tax safety net at the bottom - though I would still like the VERY rich to pay proportionately more. Most of them got rich on the backs of the poor, after all !

Then Fuzz if there was a safety net that protected people who couldn't afford it would that help the issue? also, when I trypically talk of flat taxes I think of something that doesn't go above 8% typically because there is no need to tax more when there are not deductions to take away from what you are getting from that person.