American Politics

[Jamari]

23 minutes ago, purpledragonclaw said:

 

 

Citation needed, please, since you said you could provide sources.

I have many sources. Look up "babies in trash cans". You will find many sources. Is it so difficult to agree that "all men are created equal"? And it's a horrible fact what's going on? If no one agrees with me, then God have mercy on America.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Chusi

[purpledragonclaw]

3 minutes ago, Chusi said:

I have many sources. Look up "babies in trash cans". You will find many sources.

 

When someone says they can provide sources, it is on them to provide the sources. You cannot expect people to do the research for you. That's a disingenuous tactic to avoid debate. 

 

So since you said you could provide them, I'm asking you to provide them, please.

[Jamari]

Why do people dump their newborns in fields or dumpsters ... Quora https://www.quora.com › WWhy are there dumpster babies (in the US)? — Related hy-do-people-d

Edited November 1, 2023 by Chusi

[purplehaze]

I could find "proof" for almost anything by doing a Google search on it. If it's on the internet it must be true. Right?

3 minutes ago, Chusi said:

Why do people dump their newborns in fields or dumpsters ... Quora https://www.quora.com › Why-do-people-dump-their-ne...

Quite different from allowing "preemies to die in a hospital trash bins on a daily basis."

[Astreya]

9 minutes ago, Chusi said:

Why do people dump their newborns in fields or dumpsters ... Quora https://www.quora.com › Why-do-people-dump-their-ne...

Are these really credible sources for you?

 

  

23 minutes ago, Chusi said:

Is it so difficult to agree that "all men are created equal"?

If that is true, why are homosexuals then not equal with equal rights? Has your god made a mistake, or why did your god create them the way they are?

Edited November 1, 2023 by Astreya

[Jamari]

Alright. I'm done here. But when I take my last breath, I will be proud to die in the land of the free and the home of the brave where ALL men are created equal. From the leader of the free world to the tiny babies in garbage cans.  

[purpledragonclaw]

1 minute ago, Chusi said:

Alright. I'm done here. But when I take my last breath, I will be proud to die in the land of the free and the home of the brave where ALL men are created equal. From the leader of the free world to the tiny babies in garbage cans.  

 

So in response to asking for sources, providing one source, and having that source rightfully questioned since it's user answers and entirely anecdotal (though I notice one answer pointed to lack of abortion access as a reason), you're disengaging? Can you provide no other sources for your views? Can you not handle debate? 

 

Quora is as reputable a source as VAERS, by the way. It's all anecdotal data from user responses.

[AsymDoll13]

37 minutes ago, Chusi said:

Alright. I'm done here. But when I take my last breath, I will be proud to die in the land of the free and the home of the brave where ALL men are created equal. From the leader of the free world to the tiny babies in garbage cans.  

 

So if "ALL" men are created equal in the eyes of the free world (America in this case) and in the eyes of God (your God, not mine), then... shouldn't gays/women/Muslims/Jews/so on and so forth, be called equal? You can't have it both ways. Homosexuality is not an abomination, being ignorant of the fact that everyone is a human and deserves respect is an abomination, and that's from someone who grew up knowing the stories of the Bible, and also going to church every single Sunday. My parents are both preachers/ministers, and my church (until I was 14 and fed up with the so-called "faith" that helped me not at all with a parent addicted to drugs) had a female pastor. 

 

You can't have it both ways. 

 

Also, Trump is a degenerate who likes to molest women and pretend that he is a "God." That's having a false idol, unless I'm wrong. 

Edited November 1, 2023 by AsymDoll13

[Kaini]

1 hour ago, AsymDoll13 said:

So if "ALL" men are created equal in the eyes of the free world (America in this case) and in the eyes of God (your God, not mine), then... shouldn't gays/women/Muslims/Jews/so on and so forth, be called equal? You can't have it both ways. Homosexuality is not an abomination, being ignorant of the fact that everyone is a human and deserves respect is an abomination, and that's from someone who grew up knowing the stories of the Bible, and also going to church every single Sunday. My parents are both preachers/ministers, and my church (until I was 14 and fed up with the so-called "faith" that helped me not at all with a parent addicted to drugs) had a female pastor. 

 

^ This! Agree. All means ALL. I am not an abomination, and yes I have read the Bible. Many times. I do believe Jesus would have preached to love thy fellow man, not condemn him as an 'abomination'. 

 

Regardless, this is a thread about politics and it has gotten slightly off topic (slightly). Let's also remember the first rule of the forum is to respect others - this includes not calling groups of users 'abominations'. 

 

Further rude, off topic or inflammatory posts beyond this one will be removed. 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Kaini

[AsymDoll13]

I'd like to apologize for getting a bit out of hand there... I was a bit heated and took it out on others, and for that I'm sorry. Won't happen again. 

 

Now... Imma be quiet and just let the thread continue on. 

 

I noticed an article a bit ago about a "second American civil war" and I can see why that would be a concern with all of the various disagreements/discussion around the entirety of the USA. Would it ever come to that though? 

[Fuzzbucket]

3 hours ago, AsymDoll13 said:

I'd like to apologize for getting a bit out of hand there... I was a bit heated and took it out on others, and for that I'm sorry. Won't happen again. 

 

Now... Imma be quiet and just let the thread continue on. 

 

I noticed an article a bit ago about a "second American civil war" and I can see why that would be a concern with all of the various disagreements/discussion around the entirety of the USA. Would it ever come to that though? 

 

I have a ghastly fear that if Trump were re-elected, it very well might.

[trystan]

4 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

I have a ghastly fear that if Trump were re-elected, it very well might.

my fear is that if trump is re-elected, we'll be living in an Autocracy with no way back to a Democracy.

[Fuzzbucket]

That too - but the violence is something I fear more. Your constitution isn't as easy to change as Trump thinks. Witness just the NRA and the fact that most people would like assault rifles banned - and the constitution is being used to prevent that. Also the fact - as pointed out to me recently by someone on twitter (and no I will not call it X) that the States is not actually a single country - it's a federation.... That is a strength in one way - but may also be a part of what makes the violence such a risk. The Trumpier states are quite likely to attack the more civilised ones, I fear.

[trystan]

38 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

The Trumpier states are quite likely to attack the more civilised ones, I fear.

agreed.

the thing with trump and the constitution is that if the house goes MAGA and the senate goes MAGA... all the Rs are still afraid of trump, and they'll vote the way he wants them to.

but you're right, we're a collection of states and commonwealths.  but if the entire state is red (the state House, Senate, and Governor), that state will fall in line with trump too.  I'm so glad PA's governor is a Democrat.  the rest of the state government in Harrisburg leaves a lot to be desired in my eyes.

and there's the new speaker of the House in DC.  he was one of the reps who questioned the 2020 election, and has many Xian Nationalist views too.

 

and i still call it twitter too.

Edited November 2, 2023 by trystan

[Astreya]

1 hour ago, Chusi said:

Yes I'm against abortion. Yes I own guns.

Interesting. So you think killing an embryo is a sin because it is still within a womb, but possibly using a gun to kill a person who is outside the womb is okay? Mind you, a gun has no other reason but to kill people, so having a gun means you are prepared to kill.

 

"Age-adjusted firearm homicide rates in the US are 33 times greater than in Australia and 77 times greater than in Germany."

"Among 65 high-income countries and territories, the United States stands out for its high levels of gun violence."

 

Oh, and as you are so worried about kids:

"The trend continues for percentage of child deaths caused by firearms. Including physical violence, suicide, and unintentional injury, gun violence accounts for over 8% of deaths in the US among those under age 20, a figure that stands far above peer countries. When excluding infants, who have higher rates of death from neonatal causes, that number jumps to 15%."

 

Source: https://www.healthdata.org/news-events/insights-blog/acting-data/gun-violence-united-states-outlier

Edited November 2, 2023 by Astreya

[AsymDoll13]

Abortion is a valuable thing when the fetus is likely to kill the mother or not be viable to life. Making a woman carry a baby that is going to pass away soon after being born seems really cruel to me, but then... I'm not going to be having babies for myself. Only furbabies. 
 

@Chusi You come in with sassy words and no way to back your claims. I'm not here to judge you for your faith or party, but you have to have realized that most of the people on this site seem to lean one way, not the other. I'm sorry that you feel this way, but maybe keeping up the attacks and fighting isn't a good thing? 

Edited November 2, 2023 by AsymDoll13

[purplehaze]

11 minutes ago, Astreya said:

Mind you, a gun has no other reason but to kill people, so having a gun means you are prepared to kill.

I disagree with that statement. Guns can also be used for hunting or protection of livestock from predators. There are types of guns and ammunition that are made basically as weapons of war that have no purpose but to kill people, and I will not defend those in the hands of private citizens, but your statement is too broad. I am not a gun owner and never plan to be, but I do recognize that there are legitimate reasons for owning a gun that do not include killing people.

Edited November 2, 2023 by purplehaze

[Astreya]

@purplehaze

Isn't hunting usually done with rifles? At least in Germany it is.

And it appears that in the US the number of people being killed with guns is disproportionally high.

 

This article I already linked above is indeed very interesting: https://www.healthdata.org/news-events/insights-blog/acting-data/gun-violence-united-states-outlier

 

 

 

 

[purplehaze]

17 minutes ago, Astreya said:

And it appears that in the US the number of people being killed with guns is disproportionally high.

I will not dispute that. We have more guns than people in this country, although some stats that I was reading the other day (but can't cite because I don't remember where I saw them) indicate that only about 20 - 30% of people are gun owners. This means that some folks are insanely heavily armed, I guess.

Edit: Did find some stats on gun ownership here https://news.gallup.com/poll/264932/percentage-americans-own-guns.aspx

 

To me it is clear that more guns = more killing.

 

17 minutes ago, Astreya said:

Isn't hunting usually done with rifles?

I guess I was considering the term gun to mean any firearm, not just handguns.

Edited November 2, 2023 by purplehaze

[Astreya]

@purplehaze

Oh, I see. I usually consider "gun" to be a handheld device. I'm sorry if I was mistaken there. (Mind you, I'm no native English speaker.)

 

By the way, I found something very interesting when I checked the stats at Wikipedia. They write in the US, there are 120 guns per 100 persons, and in Germany, there are still 32 guns per 100 people (definitely too many in my eyes) - but when you look at homicides (not all gun deaths), then we have 4.46 gun homicides per 100 000 persons in the US, but only 0.06 gun homicides per 100 000 people in Germany.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

 

So it seems it is not only about the amount of available weapons, but there have to be further problems in the US.

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Astreya

[AsymDoll13]

What I'm getting from this conversation is one simple thing. Too many guns. 

[SheepWolfe]

i don't live in america, i've visited once (to florida, yeesh), but if we're talking gun control the obvious (and maybe obnoxious) comparison to make is that in 2013 in the US, there were 5,800 handgun homicides in that year. in the UK, there was less than 20. who would have thunk it that gun control works? (i know we have a problem with knife crime though. but knife crime is also still worse in the US than the UK, fun fact!)

i suppose you can additionally argue a lot of guns used in crimes (in general) are illegally acquired, which is a fair point.

when i was in florida i was staying in winterhaven which is a pretty rural area, i got popeyes delivered and the uber driver got the wrong address and apparently got a gun pointed at him as a result. ain't that wild? what's the use of a gun if not to point it at people who show up at your doorstep i guess.

sources, in case youre curious:

US vs UK gun homicide

US vs UK knife crime (news article)

[dracornithologist]

I currently live in a country not the US, and grew up in the US. I still flinch when I hear fireworks (very, very common here), still too used to gunshots. I grew up in TX where, because my family is Muslim, and visibly so due to my mother and sisters wearing hijab, we couldn't even go out on the fourth of July without being threatened, harassed, or even physically attacked in public. People in their camo uniforms would aim guns at us "jokingly" or try to run us off the road.

 

In the country I live in now, all forms of discrimination are illegal. Not so in the US.

 

@Chusi, you say you're "not the judge" but almost all of your comments have seemed very judgmental. Maybe you're not aware of the way your tone affects others or how you come off, so some details. Making up a story about a baby in a trash can, taken from stories you've been told by other people without proof, and then assuming that anyone pro abortion would "turn a blind eye" to that baby is enormously judgmental. Casually using the fact that Democrats are pro same sex marriage as a reason to not like them, and then saying that "some" view that as an abomination, is you taking your small opinion of other people and projecting judgment, i.e., enormously judgmental. Saying that at least you're in The Country where ALL "men" are created equal implies you believe other countries are inferior - again, enormously judgmental. 

 

And that last statement isn't even true. When you say "all men are created equal", you're referencing the founding fathers of the US - who were hugely racist and sexist, who owned enslaved people, who actively and consciously continued to carry out a genocide against Native Americans. That's the kind of "equal" you mean - the kind that is actually a weighted scale in favor of White men.

 

I'm not saying this because you're a Republican, which no one knew for sure until you said it. I'm saying it because I would appreciate if you would be more mindful of how you speak to others here, especially when it comes to projecting your belief system on them. 

[Rosedamai]

9 hours ago, Chusi said:

I guess people like me aren't welcome here.

That is fine. Don’t get an abortion. If that’s your belief then I am perfectly fine with you not getting an abortion. That is your religious right and I have no say in that.

 

However, you have no right to tell me-or anyone else who doesn’t adhere to your idea of what Christianity allows or forbids-that we cannot get an abortion. That is up to our own decision. Your religion doesn’t get to tell me what to do, just as my paternal family’s religion cannot tell you that eating meat is awful and is a form of sin.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Rosedamai

[Kaini]

A few inflammatory posts have been removed, thank you to those that stayed on topic and respectful. General reminder that the first rule of the forum is to respect others.