Marriage Equality and Other MOGAI/Queer Rights

[Shato]

I am a Christian and bi. I have seen every argument from the bible against gay marriage and every single one was misinterpreted and out of context. If someone wants to quote a passage to me from the bible stating that it is a sin then I will happily explain how it is not. As for allowing gay marriage in a political sense, I see absolutely no reason to deny it as most peoples views against gay marriage are based on religion and religion has no place in the government.

[CrossingStar]

I see absolutely no reason to deny it as most peoples views against gay marriage are based on religion and religion has no place in the government.

*claps* Very well said. That is the reason behind the separation of Church and State; so that people could do things that a certain religion doesn't allow or vice versa.

[gistofeverything]

I am an androgynous lesbian. If that bothers you in any way, please stop reading this post.

 

To be honest, I believe that anyone should have the opportunity to marry whom they want. In several important American documents, our Founding Fathers have stated that in America, no one can take away any person's unalienable rights: life (being a person), liberty (having free will), and the pursuit of happiness (freedom to choose what makes one happy.

 

Sexuality is determined at birth; no one can change that. If this happens, it very well breaks the psyche of the person involved. Most artificial changes don't last, and that person always rediscovers themselves. Resistance is only going to lead to anger and strife. Most crime committed by the LGBT community (us) is based around this issue. If we were allowed to freely express ourselves without the interference of overzealous Christians (This is not an attack, mind you, but Christians are the prime example.), there would not be as much hate in the world as it is.

 

When will it end?

I believe that this war will only end when people can see that homosexual marriage is just as glorious and beautiful as it is for straight people.

 

Will gays ever get full rights?

We supposedly "have" full rights, as allowed by the Constitution, Article I. I don't believe that this is the case, though. I assume that we will only be liberated when the above comes true.

 

Who will end it?

The people who are attacking us are mainly zealous religionists. When they can open their eyes, I presume one of them will help the others see the light and end the pain and suffering they cause.

 

Please know that I am not attacking any individual; I am just voicing my opinion like you all have voiced yours.

Edited November 21, 2012 by gistofeverything

[CrossingStar]

Wow O.O My questions really caused a response. But that's why I ask them; so that I can make people think about the issue.

[Kalahan]

Hmm....let me just say, I both do and don't support gay couples. How do I accomplish this? Simple. I am a Christian, and happily love my one and only God. After conversing with my mother, I've decided this.

 

Gay couples are gonna happen, nothing anyone can do is going to change that. But, marriage was specifically deemed by God to be between a Man and a Women. Now, here's where my tricky sentence above is explained.

 

I support Life Partners. Two gay people being together, maybe adopting a kid, just like that. I'm cool with that. But I do not support Gay Marriage. Like I said above, marriage is for a Man and a Women to be united.

 

Again, just to be clear.

 

I support Gay Partnership, but not Gay Marriage.

[Switch]

Didn't marriage exist looooong before Christianity was even around? Just iirc though. I could be wrong.

 

Edited November 27, 2012 by Switch

[linda3.0]

it isnt for straight people or any people for that matter to decide who can and can not be with who. if 2 people love eachother enough to want to spend the rest of their lives together regardless of their gender then they should have every right to. as for anyone who thinks its wrong my answer is thats just too bad for you. if you dont like it thats your problem but instead of being all "omg no u cant be together this isnt right... etc" just shut up and ignore it and let them be happy since clearly youre not or you wouldnt be paying attention to their buisness anyway youd be living your own life.

Edited November 27, 2012 by linda3.0

[KageSora]

Didn't marriage exist looooong before Christianity was even around? Just iirc though. I could be wrong.

Yep! And it existed in various forms in other cultures long before they were exposed to Christianity.

[hazeh]

Gay couples are gonna happen, nothing anyone can do is going to change that. But, marriage was specifically deemed by God to be between a Man and a Women.

God contacted you specifically and told you this? I'm interested in knowing how and why this sentiment came about, especially since marriage is not just a union in the Christan belief system.

 

Therefore I do not understand why people feel it's appropriate to deem it as such.

[Kalahan]

Yep! And it existed in various forms in other cultures long before they were exposed to Christianity.

0_0.......LOL!!! Aha! Aha! Oh ho, ha! Wow that was funny. Tell me, what do you know about Christianity? Cause God existed long before the Earth did! Before Space existed! Cause he made it!

 

Marriage was just one of God's many creations, and he meant to be holy. But being cursed as we are, mankind has distorted much of God's once pure creation.

 

But since my opinion on this means nothing, I guess I'll go now.

[hazeh]

Uh, that people and marriage existed long before Christianity did, and regardless of when God came into being and whatnot, that doesn't dismiss the fact that other cultures have marriage, and that marriage existed as a secular contract far before it became a "holy union". The term you're looking for is Holy Matrimony, not marriage.

 

Going from your viewpoint, you don't think Atheists should be married either? There's nothing "holy" in their union.

[Switch]

Uh, wow. Sure, maybe you believe that. But I and many other people don't, and I thought we were waaaaay past the point of forcing other people to follow one religion even if they don't agree with it.

 

Christianity doesn't rule the world, mate. Freedom of religion and separation of church and state and all that jazz.

Edited November 27, 2012 by Switch

[7Deadly$ins]

0_0.......LOL!!! Aha! Aha! Oh ho, ha! Wow that was funny. Tell me, what do you know about Christianity? Cause God existed long before the Earth did! Before Space existed! Cause he made it!

 

Marriage was just one of God's many creations, and he meant to be holy. But being cursed as we are, mankind has distorted much of God's once pure creation.

 

But since my opinion on this means nothing, I guess I'll go now.

You think he'd have told everyone, that, then, instead of waiting thousands of years for Christianity to be introduced into some areas of the world. Some places are still unaware of Christianity's existence, someone should go tell them that their marriages are totally not proper.

[Rosedamai]

You think he'd have told everyone, that, then, instead of waiting thousands of years for Christianity to be introduced into some areas of the world. Some places are still unaware of Christianity's existence, someone should go tell them that their marriages are totally not proper.

Ho ho ho! Most of my ancestors had irreligious marriages. Someone should go back in time and tell them that it's illegitimate. Ho ho ho ho! I wonder how that would work out.

 

Not to mention that there were gay wedding ceremonies in ~gasp~ medieval Europe.

 

Please stop with the "God intended marriage to be a man and a woman" thing, it gets tiring for a person from another culture to hear.

[prairiecrow]

Please stop with the "God intended marriage to be a man and a woman" thing, it gets tiring for a person from another culture to hear.

Or from another religion.

 

If you're Christian and you feel that your God has told you that gay marriage is wrong -- fine, don't get married to another man or woman. But please leave those of us whose Gods evidently have NO problem with the concept to practice our spiritual paths in peace, and don't try to get your religion's tenets enshrined in secular law.

 

(Also, according to Judeo-Christian values it was at one point perfectly ethical for a woman to be forced to marry her rapist, IIRC. Their concept of marriage has certainly changed over time!)

[gistofeverything]

Marriage was just one of God's many creations, and he meant to be holy. But being cursed as we are, mankind has distorted much of God's once pure creation.

Then tell me: If your God believes we are so impure, why does he still continue to love His children, as well as give them free will to do what they want? This is also your God's creation, so please don't try and refute this.

[KageSora]

0_0.......LOL!!! Aha! Aha! Oh ho, ha! Wow that was funny. Tell me, what do you know about Christianity? Cause God existed long before the Earth did! Before Space existed! Cause he made it!

 

Marriage was just one of God's many creations, and he meant to be holy. But being cursed as we are, mankind has distorted much of God's once pure creation.

 

But since my opinion on this means nothing, I guess I'll go now.

I was raised Roman Catholic, dear. But I never really had much faith. And I gave up on it because, honestly, it wasn't very... Tolerant. Nor did it make sense to me, the more I thought about it. But I'll leave that discussion for another post.

 

Supposing your God exists--yes, He would have existed before humanity and whatnot. HOWEVER, there were MANY religions that PREDATE Christianity. Many religions--some that still survive to this day, others that have died and been forgotten. And even if they don't predate Christianity in overall origin, they existed in their region of origin prior to the spread of Christianity--and I can guarantee that at least some of them had marriage in some form or another!

[northxblue]

^ I have to agree with many other posters here. There have been countless other religions in existance, many of them predating Christianity. Even today, there are many other religions out there, so why is Christianity the one that gets to decide what we do? Not all of us follow that particular religion. In fact, many people have a completely different religion altogether, and some people don't follow one at all. It's very arrogant to presume that the Christian/Abrahamic God, supposing He exists, is the one true God whose divine laws we must not 'corrupt'. I mean, haven't we all already gone against the word of Bible many times over already by outlawing slavery, giving women equal rights and so on and so on and so on? The Bible condoned and even accepted many things we'd find heinous today, so to be against homosexuality and same-sex marriage on one hand, but being perfectly okay with women being in positions of authority (female bosses, teachers, prime ministers, etc) seems awfully... two-faced to me. Or at least hypocritical.

 

Personally, I have nothing against same-sex marriage, and I think it's just as acceptable as a union between a man and a woman. The concept of marriage has been around a lot longer than Christianity and most religions in existance today, so why they get to 'decide' who can marry who is beyond me! As long as both partners are consenting adults, that's all that should matter, isn't it?

[NobleOwl]

Gay couples are gonna happen, nothing anyone can do is going to change that. But, marriage was specifically deemed by God to be between a Man and a Women. Now, here's where my tricky sentence above is explained.

 

Actually, speaking as someone who has read the Torah, he does no such thing, not really. G-d brings Adam his Bashert, his soul mate, the person made for him. This never happens again. He never explicitly says that marriage is only between a man and a woman. He creates someone for him -- that happens to be a woman, that doesn't mean someone else's soul mate is a man or woman.

 

I support Life Partners. Two gay people being together, maybe adopting a kid, just like that. I'm cool with that. But I do not support Gay Marriage. Like I said above, marriage is for a Man and a Women to be united.

 

So you oppose my ability to practise my faith? Because to me, what you're saying is, I shouldn't have the right to have a ketubah, to have my rabbi unite my wife and I under a chuppah, before G-d and witnesses. Why should your Christian opinions affect my right to practise Judaism?

 

Not to mention that there were gay wedding ceremonies in ~gasp~ medieval Europe.

 

And in the early church.

 

(Also, according to Judeo-Christian values it was at one point perfectly ethical for a woman to be forced to marry her rapist, IIRC. Their concept of marriage has certainly changed over time!)

 

Not quite accurate, prariecrow. Sorry to blot this a bit, it's a good argument, but incorrect. (Also, I hate the term Judeo-Christian values, it makes no sense.) A woman could force her rapist to marry HER. She could legally compel him to set her up in his house, care and provide for her, and never give him the option of getting rid of her. If she didn't want too, she could also choose to stay in her father's house. It was her choice.

 

 

[TikindiDragon]

0_0.......LOL!!! Aha! Aha! Oh ho, ha! Wow that was funny. Tell me, what do you know about Christianity? Cause God existed long before the Earth did! Before Space existed! Cause he made it!

 

Marriage was just one of God's many creations, and he meant to be holy. But being cursed as we are, mankind has distorted much of God's once pure creation.

 

But since my opinion on this means nothing, I guess I'll go now.

Uh. Wow. May I suggest going and spending some time reading the religion thread. You'll find that a lot of people here are actually extremely knowledgable not just about Christianity but about many other world religions as well.

[HeatherMarie]

See, when you start throwing the *truth* at those "Christian beliefs", the person in question says goodbye to the thread.

[Fuzzbucket]

I am the daughter of an Anglican minister. I was married in a civil ceremony on principle as I feel very strongly that religion has - and should have - NOTHING to do with such a union. If I had wanted to be blessed by some guyinthesky, I would have done that separately. Because that is a separate thing. Just like in France - you marry in the mayor's office and the church thing has NO legal validity.

 

BTW my father agreed with me.

[Awdz]

I do not think marriage must be bound to religion, but nor do I believe it should be separated from it. The ceremony indicates a change in social standing, and whatever the couple's society holds in esteem would make sense as the entity to officiate.

 

The problem comes in when one entity refuses to acknowledge what another entity has officiated over. That's when it falls to the legal entities (read: government) to determine who has official authority to declare a marriage.

 

Frankly, if a couple is living together as lovers, filing the paperwork is mainly for legal benefits. Their friends and families already know they are a unit. A church wedding is sort of like going to confession - God already knows too.

Edited November 28, 2012 by Awdz Bodkins

[Astrodeath311]

God contacted you specifically and told you this? I'm interested in knowing how and why this sentiment came about, especially since marriage is not just a union in the Christan belief system.

 

Therefore I do not understand why people feel it's appropriate to deem it as such.

Technically, He did. He put it in the Bible which is His Word. We govern our lives by His Word and while we may not communicate to Him directly, He does exist. There are so many amazing things that defy logic, and it is all because of Him.

 

(Verses Romans 1:26-1:27 and Leviticus, but I don't remember the passage in Leviticus.)

 

However, I do support Gay Partnership, but marriage is between a man and woman.

[satyr76]

Technically, He did. He put it in the Bible which is His Word. We govern our lives by His Word and while we may not communicate to Him directly, He does exist. There are so many amazing things that defy logic, and it is all because of Him.

 

(Verses Romans 1:26-1:27 and Leviticus, but I don't remember the passage in Leviticus.)

 

However, I do support Gay Partnership, but marriage is between a man and woman.

Normally, I wouldn't be too bothered by that belief. However, marriage gives couples certain rights that (in the US, at least) aren't granted by civil unions. While I would like to get married, the rights are much more important than the word to me.