Marriage Equality and Other MOGAI/Queer Rights

[brairtrainer]

And the fact that there WOULD be a fuss is so very scary How harmless can you be ?

It would be, but honestly I feel that parents today think that if you coddle kids that they won't find out about things/they'll all just go away. Like the problems with abstinance only education, 'theropys' designed to turn people straight, etc.

 

Honestly I think that in a world where the information is at any teens fingertips that somethings that are not being taught in the home need to come from an adult who interacts directly with the teens, because otherwise you're gonna end up with quite a few scenarios.

 

1. Teens follow what their parents think and scream the world is wrong on anything different (not a good coping habit in an ever changing world)

 

2. Teen is Gay(or bi, or asexual or any number of things) and feels terrified about comming out to parents because they know how they feel about it or

2a. Teen is afraid something is wrong with them and starts cutting or some other punishment to try and change themselves

2b. Gets found out and gets sent off to theropy by the parents which can end up hurting the teen worse

2c. Teen gets found out and gets kicked out of home

 

3. Has sibling who is gay(or bi, or asexual etc.) and feels caught in the middle and either ends up a) going along with the parents and losing a sibling relationship at the end of it wants to protect the sibling but afraid of the reprucussions for themselves or c) (older sibling) Takes in younger sibling and loses relationship with parents

 

4. Has a friend who is gay and loses the friendship because of it

 

5. Loses trust in the parents as they form their own opinions

 

I'm actually kinda in a #5 mentality at the moment as though my parents agree with me that marriages should just all become civil unions so the fuss goes away, my parents believe it is all a choice and won't listen when I give reasons as to why its not (pulled stuff from here, psychology today, and some of the classes I'm taking for my bio degree)

 

And then we have the extra arguments of the fact I'm prochoice but thats for another thread

 

[Fuzzbucket]

It really is scary. I well recall the sex ed discussion where I had to "chair" a table of parents. One mother said all we needed was to tell them "not to do it" and that sex ed was unnecessary. It took a long conversation - I became amused and then angry - where I kept asking her "but what are they not to do ? How can they know what not to do if we don't tell them what it is they aren't supposed to be doing ?"

 

In the end, through tightly pursed lips, she spat "intercourse." I had her. Look in the dictionary....

 

1. communication or exchange between individuals; mutual dealings

2. See Sexual intercourse.

 

[Middle English entercours, commercial dealings, from Old French entrecours, from Latin intercursus, a running between, interposition, from past participle of intercurrere, to mingle with : inter-, inter- + currere, to run; see kers- in Indo-European roots.]

 

The sexual definition is secondary.

 

"So - you want the teachers to tell your children not to interact with another human being ?"

 

All the other parents on the table started to giggle, and - well, the programme went through

[brairtrainer]

It really is scary. I well recall the sex ed discussion where I had to "chair" a table of parents. One mother said all we needed was to tell them "not to do it" and that sex ed was unnecessary. It took a long conversation - I became amused and then angry - where I kept asking her "but what are they not to do ? How can they know what not to do if we don't tell them what it is they aren't supposed to be doing ?"

 

In the end, through tightly pursed lips, she spat "intercourse." I had her. Look in the dictionary....

 

 

 

The sexual definition is secondary.

 

"So - you want the teachers to tell your children not to interact with another human being ?"

 

All the other parents on the table started to giggle, and - well, the programme went through

Well I liked how you took care of that Fuzz sounds like you educated when you did that.

 

Besides saying not to do intercourse doesn't stop the more 'perverse acts'

[HeatherMarie]

Besides saying not to do intercourse doesn't stop the more 'perverse acts'

This. I'm very thankful that my school *taught* sex-ed, not abstinence-ed, but I just don't get the whole idea of abstinence-ed. Saying "Don't have sexual intercourse" is, number one, not explaining *why* they shouldn't, and number two, leaving a bajillion other sexual things that were not explicitly said "no" to, so it must be okay, right?

 

The only way I can actually see abstinence-ed working in *any* way is if they took the time to explain, in *detail*, the different STDs that you could get, explain in *detail* what it's like to be pregnant and the ways your life will change, explain *in detail* the risks that other types of sexual acts will bring. But does any abstinence-ed actually do that? 'Cause I've never heard of any that do.

 

Anyways, more on-topic: Just saw a newspaper article about the Supreme Court looking into multiple different cases of same-sex marriage throughout the US. I didn't get to read the whole article, so I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing.

[TCA]

The only way I can actually see abstinence-ed working in *any* way is if they took the time to explain, in *detail*, the different STDs that you could get, explain in *detail* what it's like to be pregnant and the ways your life will change, explain *in detail* the risks that other types of sexual acts will bring. But does any abstinence-ed actually do that? 'Cause I've never heard of any that do.

Actually, they did exactly this at my Catholic high school. They were very specific on the various STDs and the effects of unwanted pregnancies, whether kept or not, they were specific on the fact that other sexual acts still carried risks and are not safe, and they DID mention that birth control exists and is better than nothing but they stressed very strongly that they are not 100% safe and that nothing is 100% safe except for abstinence.

 

So it does exist, just saying.

[TikindiDragon]

Actually, they did exactly this at my Catholic high school. They were very specific on the various STDs and the effects of unwanted pregnancies, whether kept or not, they were specific on the fact that other sexual acts still carried risks and are not safe, and they DID mention that birth control exists and is better than nothing but they stressed very strongly that they are not 100% safe and that nothing is 100% safe except for abstinence.

 

So it does exist, just saying.

If they're going to put a heavy emphasis on abstinance (and I understand why some church schools would want to), then this ^ is undoubtably the way to go about it. The moral lesson still stand, but it's far, far safer when the practicalities (and the *why* you'd want to abstain) goes alongside it.

 

Surely people have noticed that "Don't do this, because I say so." never works very well with kids, let alone teenagers?

[brairtrainer]

If they're going to put a heavy emphasis on abstinance (and I understand why some church schools would want to), then this ^ is undoubtably the way to go about it. The moral lesson still stand, but it's far, far safer when the practicalities (and the *why* you'd want to abstain) goes alongside it.

 

Surely people have noticed that "Don't do this, because I say so." never works very well with kids, let alone teenagers?

People have noticed but I think that the reason that they don't cover it is that the parents themselves are uncomfortable talking about it, which of course means that kids go to the interenet to find out how to hide it.

 

Really I wished that sex education taught a little bit on other sex acts (not just intercourse) because other than 'oral can give you stds' I knew nothing about if other acts could be dangerous, I had to go online to try and find information and we know how many rumors are online. Really not educating makes it more risky for everyone.

[HeatherMarie]

Surely people have noticed that "Don't do this, because I say so." never works very well with kids, let alone teenagers?

I wonder if those type of people/educators remember what it was like when *they* were teenagers. Because I'm betting nine out of ten reacted the exact same way to "because I said so!", ie badly. Teens think something is off-limits, just because, they're more likely to do it anyways, just to spite their parents or to show that "I'm a person, I can do what I want", etc.

 

My mom has told me about the crap she did when she was a teenager. And it makes me *glad* that I have chosen not to do those things myself. If every parent actually sat down and explained things, instead of going "I'm the parent so you have to listen to me", I have a feeling a lot more teenagers would actually listen.

 

Oh, and about the sex-ed thing: It was awhile ago, so I *may* be misremembering, but I have a fairly clear memory of our sex-ed teacher quickly mentioning gay sex. I don't remember what exactly she said, but I remember it because at that point I was just starting to realize my sexuality, and it made me feel better that she had mentioned it.

Edited December 2, 2012 by Marie19R

[chuhulil]

Actually, they did exactly this at my Catholic high school. They were very specific on the various STDs and the effects of unwanted pregnancies, whether kept or not, they were specific on the fact that other sexual acts still carried risks and are not safe, and they DID mention that birth control exists and is better than nothing but they stressed very strongly that they are not 100% safe and that nothing is 100% safe except for abstinence.

 

So it does exist, just saying.

They did this for us as well when I was in 8th grade. They had a doctor come in and explain the different kinds of STDs, and pregnancies and the doctor stressed that if we did not abstain, we should use contraception and that it wasn't very difficult to get, however, along with every STD that she talked about, she would say that abstinence is the only way to completely prevent STDs and pregnancies.

[Fuzzbucket]

I was GOING to say we were way off topic - but then I got to thinking - it is the lack of decent sex AND RELATIONSHIP education that leads to a lot of the homophobia that in turn leads to intolerance about gay relationships in general. I know there are religious issues with religious ceremonies, but if more people understood about the different kinds of love there are in the world, and surely to bleep, religion is about love - we could agree on equal rights for all, but that a minister of a religion which only sees heterosexual marriage as OK doesn't have to marry same sex couples. After all - if a church feels that way about them, they aren't likely to go there that often....

 

And there are loads of other weird religious issues in life, after all Quite a few ministers won't even marry straight couples if they aren't baptised, for instance....

Edited December 2, 2012 by fuzzbucket

[TikindiDragon]

however, along with every STD that she talked about, she would say that abstinence is the only way to completely prevent STDs and pregnancies.

To be fair to her that information is factually correct.

[CamiKoda]

Love is love. Simple as that.

God created everything.

 

DEFINE EVERYTHING! It means He created gays. Deal with it.

No if's and's or but's about it.

[ShinyTomato]

To be fair to her that information is factually correct.

I would argue, though, that even abstinence is not completely foolproof. Many people I know who have children through rape were abstinent when it happened, and you can get herpes from kissing someone, without "sexual" contact.

[Zaxian]

... and you can get herpes from kissing someone, without "sexual" contact.

Technically correct, although I suspect that it's quite difficult to get *genital* herpes from 'just kissing'

[ShinyTomato]

Technically correct, although I suspect that it's quite difficult to get *genital* herpes from 'just kissing'

Not really. If you kiss someone who has performed oral sex on someone with genital herpes, they can transmit the herpes simplex virus to you. Genital herpes is type two, whereas the kind of herpes you're thinking about is type one. Different virus.

[brairtrainer]

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_s...k_mutton.2.html

 

seems proof that sexuality is not chosen keeps trickling in.

[Fuzzbucket]

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_s...k_mutton.2.html

 

seems proof that sexuality is not chosen keeps trickling in.

That's probably because it's actually TRUE !

 

I am aware of a lot of gay male seagulls....

[TikindiDragon]

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_s...k_mutton.2.html

 

seems proof that sexuality is not chosen keeps trickling in.

Although some parts at the end of that are actually quite worrying: viewing homosexuality as "a kind of infertility - a disability" certainly worries me. As does "We'll inoculate our offspring against homosexuality out of love, not hate.".

 

So, yeah. Research helpful, commentary on it more worrying than not.

[CrossingStar]

Although some parts at the end of that are actually quite worrying: viewing homosexuality as "a kind of infertility - a disability" certainly worries me. As does "We'll inoculate our offspring against homosexuality out of love, not hate.".

 

So, yeah. Research helpful, commentary on it more worrying than not.

'More worrying than not?' I'll say! That article is just plain creepy when it says those things

[Walker]

How could they possibly predict all the different shades of sexuality though? The scale is so broad... there's different levels of homosexual and heterosexual attraction. How could they possibly find if this embryo will be attracted to both, only one, neither, or some other gray shade of sexuality?

 

Coming from someone who has a sexuality that's not always clear cut, where would you draw the line for an embryo that needs 'treated'? Just how 'gay' do the genes have to be? What if there's only the hint of a predisposition, if it's not 100 percent clear cut?

 

Just a few questions the article brought to mind.

[brairtrainer]

Considering the source I wasn't surprised by the things at the end, and looking at it from a logistics stand point only the very rich would be able to afford genetic therapy to influence that since there would be no medical reason for it, just a preference reason.

 

Honestly I think it was talk to comfort their readers.

[CrossingStar]

To comfort their readers? Not very comforting to me, or any of us here, I think.

[brairtrainer]

Most of the other articles I saw on there at that time were more conservetive leaning, so I may have guessed wrong at where the slate is on the liberal/conservative line

[HeatherMarie]

Considering the source I wasn't surprised by the things at the end, and looking at it from a logistics stand point only the very rich would be able to afford genetic therapy to influence that since there would be no medical reason for it, just a preference reason.

 

Honestly I think it was talk to comfort their readers.

The sad thing is, I can *totally* see a future where certain medical insurances deem this stuff as "medically necessary" for the "good of human kind" or somesuch. Hopefully, with the strides America has made in same-sex marriage the past few years, that would never happen. But I could see it.

[~Kat~]

World AIDS Day is December 1. Here are some statistics on the current state of the epidemic.

 

Look how many people have aids, and look at the kids under the age of 15 that have it to. There is a time and place for sex, but for those at 15 yrs old, that have no idea what they are doing is so irresponsible. Kids are playing with sex that have consequences, and then it is to late. Yes, you can get aids in other ways than just sex. But by sleeping with different partners be it hetro or gay you are running the risk of STD's.

 

Parents need to educate their kids, and I am glad they have sex ed in schools to help this young generation. I know I talked to mine and made sure they had condoms.

 

http://www.everydayhealth.com/hiv-aids/113...26pLid%3D240218