Marriage Equality and Other MOGAI/Queer Rights

[~Kat~]

I don't get what you're talking about and I'm honestly upset that you define people as creepy based on something they do with consent with other consenting adults. Creepy is when someone has sex without consent or with another person without consent.

 

I mean, what, you think of the ways bi people have sex all the time, every time you see them? When you meet someone, you think about the way they interact, their worldview, their personality, etc, not what their sexuality is.

 

On the subject of hugs-depends on who's giving it to me. If a stranger hugs me, unless it's like the Olympics and our team scored a goal or something, I'd get pretty freaked out. If it's a friend, I'd be okay.

I think Ashojj is just uncomfortable is all, and that is alright to. I can see where it would be creepy to him.

[Rosedamai]

I think Ashojj is just uncomfortable is all, and that is alright to. I can see where it would be creepy to him.

I personally think its wrong. I know some people cant help it though on some matters. Also if you say just cause the bible says it doesnt mean its right. The bible has sold more copys than any other book. And its not like muslim book (dont know the name) says "gay is good" or anything (to my knowledge).

 

Whats even creepier is those who do it (vaguely waves hand) with both genders O_O

This is what Ashojj said.

 

I'm sorry, I'm wrong for liking a guy and a girl (not necessarily at the same time) now? I've never broken any law, I've never caused harm to anyone, I've never stalked anyone or made someone nervous, and yet I'm the creepy one because every time you look at me you think of me having sex with a guy or a girl?

 

If you're uncomfortable, that's fine, it doesn't matter. But I'm not even flirting with you or anything like that, I've no desire to start a romantic relationship anytime soon, yet I'm the repulsive one?

 

What, is it because I do it with both genders? Is that what you see when you look at me? A graphic scene? I find THAT way more creepy.

 

http://www.upworthy.com/mitt-romney-accide...ness-ensues?g=3

Saw that. *Wince* Edited September 7, 2012 by ylangylang

[archangelofcreation]

as a christian i love all people but i cannot support the gay marriage right. if you hate me thats fine but just remember i love you and so does jesus. we dont hate you just your choices and what they do to you

[WereJace]

as a christian i love all people but i cannot support the gay marriage right. if you hate me thats fine but just remember i love you and so does jesus. we dont hate you just your choices and what they do to you

Jesus hates long term monogamous partnerships? And children being raised in loving two-parent households? And if he loves me, why does he hate that I didn't kill myself because I didn't want to leave my partner alone?

[KageSora]

as a christian i love all people but i cannot support the gay marriage right. if you hate me thats fine but just remember i love you and so does jesus. we dont hate you just your choices and what they do to you

How can you claim to not hate a person and even to love them, and then deny that person equality?

 

Homosexuality is not a choice, it's how people are born. Denying them equal standing, however, is a choice.

 

Didn't Jesus say to love thy neighbor? Since when is love the same as denying them equal standing in the community and the eyes of the law?

 

 

And you maybe shouldn't use "we", but "I" instead as you don't speak for all Christians. There are a number of Christians who don't see homosexuality as being against the teachings in the Bible, and who don't hate people engaging in mutually contenting homosexual activity.

Edited September 7, 2012 by KageSora

[archangelofcreation]

as i said hate me if you want i dont hate anyone i love them all just not their choices. you can love someone without being their life partner you can even hug them occasionally but marriage should be between a man and a woman or a woman and a man.

 

i honestly have no problems with gay people some are even my friends but i do not support their actions nor condemn them for it i am simply stating fact and if you people would read the bible every now and again maybe you would finally understand why jesus loves you just disagrees with your relationships with the same gender.

[Rosedamai]

as i said hate me if you want i dont hate anyone i love them all just not their choices. you can love someone without being their life partner you can even hug them occasionally but marriage should be between a man and a woman or a woman and a man.

 

i honestly have no problems with gay people some are even my friends but i do not support their actions nor condemn them for it i am simply stating fact and if you people would read the bible every now and again maybe you would finally understand why jesus loves you just disagrees with your relationships with the same gender.

1. Not everyone's Christian, stop this "Jesus loves you" crap. After dealing with-and being surrounded by-30 rabid fundamentalists who shouted that at me just yesterday, I hate it when Jesus pops into everything. As far as I'm concerned, what Jesus thinks doesn't matter into my lifestyle choices. You have no authority to condemn non-Christians.

 

2. IT'S NOT A CHOICE you think I like being discriminated by society?

 

3. What you're spouting is not a fact, it's an opinion. There were medieval marriages between a man and a man, for example. Marriage doesn't have anything to do with religion. Seriously some people think their religion has a monopoly on marriage or something, people everywhere have been getting married for thousands of years before your religion was established.

Edited September 7, 2012 by ylangylang

[archangelofcreation]

1. Not everyone's Christian, stop this "Jesus loves you" crap. After dealing with-and being surrounded by-30 rabid fundamentalists who shouted that at me just yesterday, I hate it when Jesus pops into everything. As far as I'm concerned, what Jesus thinks doesn't matter into my lifestyle choices. You have no authority to condemn non-Christians.

 

2. IT'S NOT A CHOICE you think I like being discriminated by society?

 

3. What you're spouting is not a fact, it's an opinion. There were medieval marriages between a man and a man, for example. Marriage doesn't have anything to do with religion.

marriage has everything to do with religion. why do you think that everyone with a licence to marry is either a pastor or a judge. because pastors are gods deciples and judges are the of the will of the goverment. without religion america wouldnt have been found. it was religion that drove most people from their homes overseas to be here in america. it is why we say "One Nation Under God" its because the first settlers came here so they could worship God freely. YOU think that Religion has nothing to do with marriage. Priests have been around LONG before gay marriage and its the Judges that allow man on man and woman on woman marriages. im not condemning you im not going to throw you into hell. Jesus wont throw you into hell. your own choises will.

[satyr76]

 

2. IT'S NOT A CHOICE you think I like being discriminated by society?

This, so so much.

 

 

I have a question for those who do not support gay marriage: If I fall in love with a man, why shouldn't we be able to get married, other than if you're religion disagrees with it? IMO religion doesn't have a place in legislature.

[Rosedamai]

marriage has everything to do with religion. why do you think that everyone with a licence to marry is either a pastor or a judge. because pastors are gods deciples and judges are the of the will of the goverment. without religion america wouldnt have been found. it was religion that drove most people from their homes overseas to be here in america. it is why we say "One Nation Under God" its because the first settlers came here so they could worship God freely. YOU think that Religion has nothing to do with marriage. Priests have been around LONG before gay marriage and its the Judges that allow man on man and woman on woman marriages. im not condemning you im not going to throw you into hell. Jesus wont throw you into hell. your own choises will.

1. It's not a choice how many times I have to tell you? I was born this way.

 

2. No, it has nothing to do with religion.

The answer, paradoxically, is yes. In the period up to roughly the thirteenth century, male bonding ceremonies were performed in churches all over the Mediterranean.

 

This from an article called "When a medieval knight could marry another medieval knight"

 

Oh yeah, and thanks for telling me my ancestors hasn't been really getting married, because guess what, they were getting married without pastors for over a thousand years.

 

You see a pastor here?

And no, the guy in white isn't a religious figure, just a family member.

 

How about here?

 

Or here?

Edited September 7, 2012 by ylangylang

[archangelofcreation]

what im saying is here in america for a man and another man to be married a judge must perform the cerimonies. i do not think that like gender marriages should exist and that is my OPINION if you hate me for my opinion then you should never be debating things because you wont listen to the opinion even if you may be wrong. for all i care you can marry anyone you want but i believe that it is wrong and i will always think its wrong.

[Rosedamai]

what im saying is here in america for a man and another man to be married a judge must perform the cerimonies. i do not think that like gender marriages should exist and that is my OPINION if you hate me for my opinion then you should never be debating things because you wont listen to the opinion even if you may be wrong. for all i care you can marry anyone you want but i believe that it is wrong and i will always think its wrong.

You did not say that-you began off with "I cannot support gay marriage" you say stuff like that, I'm going to begin assuming that you mean people everywhere. Just because the default for you is American, doesn't mean it is for everyone else.

 

Oh? So people who don't believe in your religion, such as Buddhists, Atheists, etc shouldn't get same-sex marriages as well? Why? They're not under your religious laws, why should they care?

 

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/13/world/as...ding/index.html

 

That's a Buddhist monk performing a marriage ceremony for two women in Taiwan, please go to that monk and try to tell him that it's wrong because it's against your religion. I doubt your complaints would be taken seriously.

 

Yeah, it's your opinion, but if it's subjugating and oppressing me I have every right to argue against that.

Edited September 8, 2012 by ylangylang

[archangelofcreation]

i can see that you dont understand that OPINION means that just because its mine doesnt mean that its right for everyone. im my eyes its wrong but in some cultures its acceptable. i am not for it so therefore i will not accept it.

[Rosedamai]

i can see that you dont understand that OPINION means that just because its mine doesnt mean that its right for everyone. im my eyes its wrong but in some cultures its acceptable. i am not for it so therefore i will not accept it.

This is a discussion thread, your opinions are going to be discussed.

 

but marriage should be between a man and a woman or a woman and a man.

That is not a universal statement?

 

If you truly wished to show that it's your opinion and should have no bearings on anyone else, you should have said:

 

"Personally I'm against same-sex marriage, but I'm fine with other people doing it"

 

That's how you phrase an opinion. Personally I hate mushrooms. I detest them. I'm not going to go out and attack everyone who's eating mushrooms.

 

Good, don't get a same sex marriage for yourself then. That's fine. But don't tell other people what to do or tell them that they're going to go to hell or whatever.

[KageSora]

what im saying is here in america for a man and another man to be married a judge must perform the cerimonies. i do not think that like gender marriages should exist and that is my OPINION if you hate me for my opinion then you should never be debating things because you wont listen to the opinion even if you may be wrong. for all i care you can marry anyone you want but i believe that it is wrong and i will always think its wrong.

Er, that's not right. A pastor can perform the ceremony if he doesn't feel it's against his religion. o_O At least, I've never heard of a pastor being disallowed to, provided it's not against the religion...

 

Not all Christians are anti-gay-rights, you know. Plenty support it, and there are plenty who believe the Bible doesn't condemn homosexuality.

 

There's some fascinating reading on it that is a very different interpretation of the Bible on homosexuality, you know. So, YOUR interpretation isn't even the only one that CHRISTIANS can have.

 

 

 

Besides, marriage has long since stopped being a religious-only ceremony. There are legal benefits and rights that come along with it--to deny those to people due to how YOUR God made them is just plain cruel.

 

There's a very real legal side to marriage as well, and same-sex couples desire that--and they should have it.

 

 

And ceremonies to declare mates have been going on since before Christianity--it's hardly the origin of such things!

 

 

 

Also, NOBODY is "hating you for your opinion". You seem to be confusing disagreement and desire for discussion and debate with hate, the two are very different things. And, er, well... If YOU can't accept that some of us think differently, and don't think that your religion should govern our lives, then maybe you're also not as open to listening to other opinions even if YOU might be wrong.

 

 

Religion and government should be separate--and that means that the legal benefits of marriage should not be denied people simply because your interpretation of your holy text causes you to disagree with them. (As I said, there are other CHRISTIAN interpretations that don't believe same-sex relations are anymore sinful than heterosexual relations.)

Edited September 8, 2012 by KageSora

[Snowytoshi]

as a christian i love all people but i cannot support the gay marriage right. if you hate me thats fine but just remember i love you and so does jesus. we dont hate you just your choices and what they do to you

Several things I must point out:

 

If I were homosexual what exactly does that do to me?

 

What about the other religions? The ones without Jesus? Or *gasps* Atheism?

 

Homosexuality is not a choice.

 

 

[Wantdew]

I think it is a choice that is VERY influenced and VERY early made.

 

Gay Marriage/ Rights= support from me.

 

(I've changed my opinions about neutrality, in case you haven't noticed.)

[ShinyTomato]

I think it is a choice that is VERY influenced and VERY early made.

 

You do realise that there are physical biological differences between homosexuals and heterosexuals, yes? Biological differences that are there at birth?

[Ashes The Second]

i can see that you dont understand that OPINION means that just because its mine doesnt mean that its right for everyone. im my eyes its wrong but in some cultures its acceptable. i am not for it so therefore i will not accept it.

That's fine, tell that to people who have an open mind and you'll get a debate.

 

I'm totally for this. I think it's cruel that so few states have the legal benefits that should happen.

[7Deadly$ins]

marriage has everything to do with religion. why do you think that everyone with a licence to marry is either a pastor or a judge. because pastors are gods deciples and judges are the of the will of the goverment. without religion america wouldnt have been found. it was religion that drove most people from their homes overseas to be here in america. it is why we say "One Nation Under God" its because the first settlers came here so they could worship God freely. YOU think that Religion has nothing to do with marriage. Priests have been around LONG before gay marriage and its the Judges that allow man on man and woman on woman marriages. im not condemning you im not going to throw you into hell. Jesus wont throw you into hell. your own choises will.

Marriage practies existed before Christianity did. Judges are part of the government, yes. A government that has freedom of religion as well as separation of Church and State. We started saying One Nation Under God in the 1957, I believe. President Eisenhower added that to the Constitution as part of Cold War politics to separate us from the Soviet Union by making the differences more dramatic. It has nothing to do with this discussion.

[ShinyTomato]

just your choices and what they do to you

 

1. I did not choose to be gay. I tried every harmful therapy in the book to not be gay.

 

Exorcism? Check.

 

Vomit therapy? Check.

 

Electroshock? Check.

 

Biblical diet and fasting? Check.

 

Gender role therapy? Check.

 

I didn't know what gay was at six, when I got my first crush on a girl. How could I make a choice when I didn't know what it was?

 

I didn't choose to find men physically repulsive. I didn't choose to be unable to bond with them on an emotional level.

 

What being gay did to me?

 

Well, it's given me a long-term, monogamous, relationship of ten years that has survived my rape (another person's attempt to 'cure' me), PTSD, multiple hospitalisations, and two children.

 

but marriage should be between a man and a woman or a woman and a man.

 

In your opinion, many people disagree.

 

i am simply stating fact and if you people would read the bible every now and again maybe you would finally understand why jesus loves you just disagrees with your relationships with the same gender

 

 

I have read the Bible. Inn Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. Jesus says nothing to condemn homosexual relationships whatsoever. There are no scriptures, which, in the original languages, condemn homosexuality between two, consenting, monogamous partners.

 

marriage has everything to do with religion.

 

No it doesn't, and not every religion agrees with your views. My wife and I were married by our Rabbi.

 

why do you think that everyone with a licence to marry is either a pastor or a judge.

 

Incorrect! One does not have to be a adherent to any faith or a judge to perform a marriage.

 

without religion america wouldnt have been found. it was religion that drove most people from their homes overseas to be here in america.

 

Only a fraction of the people on the Mayflower were puritans. There were many "strangers" on the ship as well, who were atheist, agnostic, or Anglican. Also, Americn Indians were here first.

 

it is why we say "One Nation Under God" its because the first settlers came here so they could worship God freely.

 

Nope. It was to differentiate us from Russia and so-called "godless communism" during the Cold War. Most veterans refuse to say Under God if they served before 1957, because that is not the pledge they swore too when they served, and they find it insulting.

 

Priests have been around LONG before gay marriage

 

Nope, there are records of gay marriage before King Tut was even born, let alone before priests were around in their churches. Same in China.

 

 

This is a picture of Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum, who were buried together in a lavish tomb in Egypt, c. 2400 BCE. They even shared titles, something that was only allowed for spouses during that dynasty.

 

nd its the Judges that allow man on man and woman on woman marriages.

 

Again, I was married by a Rabbi, I have been to multiple same-sex weddings he;d by Christian pastors, a few held by other religions as well.

 

hat im saying is here in america for a man and another man to be married a judge must perform the cerimonies

 

Not true. All of the same-sex weddings I've been too have been in the US.

 

i am not for it so therefore i will not accept it.

 

So why, in your opinion, should straight couples get the right to see each other in hospital and make decisions for their partners, and their children, but gay couples should not?

 

im not condemning you im not going to throw you into hell. Jesus wont throw you into hell. your own choises will.

 

Lucky for me, Judaism doesn't have a hell. G-d is not so cruel as to create a place of eternal punishment for temporary choices.

Edited September 8, 2012 by ShinyTomato

[Kestra15]

as a christian i love all people but i cannot support the gay marriage right. if you hate me thats fine but just remember i love you and so does jesus. we dont hate you just your choices and what they do to you

You love everyone, yet support vigilante justice and the death sentence?

 

Marriage predates Christianity by thousands of years, so no, the Christian Church does not have any monopoly on 'original' marriage. And given the Christian Churches also recognised Adelphopoiesis - which is given as an early example of a same-sex union which - it seems their opposition to same-sex marriage is more a step backwards than a step forwards.

what im saying is here in america for a man and another man to be married a judge must perform the cerimonies

America, of course, being only one country out of 193 members of the United Nations who are a sovereign state in their own right. So please remember that - you are one country in nearly two hundred. You are not the world. Your country only represents 4.47% of the total population.

Edited September 8, 2012 by Kestra15

[St. Jimmy]

you can love someone without being their life partner you can even hug them occasionally but marriage should be between a man and a woman or a woman and a man.

Oh wow, I can actually hug my boyfriend every once in awhile? But can I cuddle with him or even *gasp* kiss him? I had no idea there were right and wrong ways to show affection. [/end snarky rant]

 

But seriously though, I think I'll do what I want with him (with consent of course! ) and keep fighting for our right to marriage. I love him. Why shouldn't we deserve the same rights straight couples get?

 

if you people would read the bible every now and again maybe you would finally understand why jesus loves you just disagrees with your relationships with the same gender.

Why should I, a Heathen, read your bible? I've tried Christianity. It didn't work for me, and I want nothing to do with it.

 

ETA:

I think it is a choice that is VERY influenced and VERY early made.

When did I choose to be pan? I started liking boys, girls, and everything in between at the same time. My parents are both straight, and I didn't have any gay/bi/whatever friends until after I knew I was pan, so no one influenced me either.

 

im not condemning you im not going to throw you into hell. Jesus wont throw you into hell. your own choises will.

1. See above. Not a choice.

2. My religion does not have a hell. There is a regular afterlife, and a greater afterlife for the most noble people. But no afterlife of eternal suffering.

Edited September 8, 2012 by St. Jimmy

[Wantdew]

You do realise that there are physical biological differences between homosexuals and heterosexuals, yes? Biological differences that are there at birth?

I believe what I said before. What physical differnces? Out of curiosity.

[ShinyTomato]

I believe what I said before. What physical differnces? Out of curiosity.

Gay men and straight women have equally proportioned brain hemispheres. Lesbian women and straight men have slightly larger right brain hemispheres.

 

The VIP SCN nucleus of the hypothalamus is larger in men than in women, and larger in gay men than in heterosexual men.

 

The average size of the INAH-3 in the brains of gay men is approximately the same size as INAH-3 in women, which is significantly smaller, and the cells more densely packed, than in heterosexual men's brains.

 

Gay men's brains respond differently to fluoxetine, a SSRI then straight men's brains'.

 

The functioning of the inner ear and the central auditory system in lesbians and bisexual women are more like the functional properties found in men than in straight women.

 

The suprachiasmatic nucleus was found by Swaab and Hopffman to be larger in gay men than in non-gay men, the suprachiasmatic nucleus is also known to be larger in men than in women.

 

The startle response is identical in lesbians and bisexual women and straight men.

 

Gay and non-gay people's brains respond differently to two putative sex pheromones (AND, found in male armpit secretions, and EST, found in female urine).

 

Gay men have increased ridge density in the fingerprints on their left thumbs and pinkies.