Marriage Equality and Other MOGAI/Queer Rights

[willowpony08]

I think that we should even have to have a 'Issue' over this. I think it is your free right to choose. I really think that just having this issue means that the goverment is treating people differently because of their sexuality. This is no different then saying black people can't marry. Homo/Bi sexuals I would like to say I'm sorry for all the *Censored* we have put you though. Thanks for puting up with us.

 

~Rosae

[philpot123]

Really? Because Westboro has a a very similar sermon, one they publicise. In fact, Cathy is known to give money to the same organisations as Westboro. Ones that fund electroshock conversion therapy.

 

I didn't say I agreed with the political intervention in it. In fact, I said I didn't. I'm merely addressing the idea that it's because they're anti-gay rather than the way they did it, since Exxon publicly got rid of an anti-discrimination policy and very few cared.

 

Quoting myself again: That said, I don't think mayors should ban things from their towns like that -- if the people want to do it, there is such a thing as a referendum.

The methods of applying their beliefs differ drastically, however similar.

 

I totally missed the post containing that earlier. I went back and read it now. Sorry about that! I agree with you on that point.

[NobleOwl]

The methods of applying their beliefs differ drastically, however similar.

 

I totally missed the post containing that earlier. I went back and read it now. Sorry about that! I agree with you on that point.

Electroshock conversion therapy is considered extreme and harmful by Kirk Cameron's church, though -- and supported by both CFA and WBC. I don't know I'd call that "drastically different." The company isn't out picketing, no, but still.

 

It's okay! I suppose an argument could be made (which I am not) that says that the voters voted on gay marriage in Mass. therefore the Mass. mayor could see it as defending the will of the people, but depending on which mayor you're talking about, in which states --

[Walker]

So it's wrong for Chic-Fil-A to support "traditional" marriage, but okay for Target, JC Penny's, and Starbucks to champion for gay rights? Why is that? Is it just because you agree with them? A company is allowed to take whatever stance they want to to take on an issue. Whether or not people agree with them. And people are free to not give them their business if they don't agree. I disagree with a lot of politics that Starbucks supports, but they have some damn good lattes and gosh darn it I'll keep shopping there. But the second a company voices support for something that isn't left leaning, all hell breaks loose, they've "overstepped their bounds" and we have to stop them RIGHT THE NOW. That really. Really. REALLY frustrates me.

 

I also said the Muppet people shouldn't have done it in that post? e3e And said nothing about any of those other companies either. If I've said anything about it in the past it slipped my mind. My apologies.

[philpot123]

Electroshock conversion therapy is considered extreme and harmful by Kirk Cameron's church, though -- and supported by both CFA and WBC. I don't know I'd call that "drastically different." The company isn't out picketing, no, but still.

 

It's okay! I suppose an argument could be made (which I am not) that says that the voters voted on gay marriage in Mass. therefore the Mass. mayor could see it as defending the will of the people, but depending on which mayor you're talking about, in which states --

I'd have to see the info for the electroshock therapy relation to Chic-Fil-A, at which I will promptly shake my head, say "silly Chic-Fil-A, that's incredibly stupid" and concede your point there

 

I also said the Muppet people shouldn't have done it in that post? e3e And said nothing about any of those other companies either. If I've said anything about it in the past it slipped my mind. My apologies.

 

Er, yeah, I think that post was just a general rant... sorry about that. But in general no one complains about those companies taking a very specific stance, but everyone is up in arms about CFA taking a specific stance because they disagree...

[7Deadly$ins]

We NEED people to take that stance to progress as a society towards better equality, just like we NEEDED people to support the Civil Rights Movement.

[hazeh]

So... for people who cite religious reasons, such as the Bible, to outlaw gay marriages, what about people who cite their own religious reasons as to why it should be become law? Doesn't relying on biblical passages become kind of moot when other people of other faiths believe differently?

[Sadako]

...I am frustrated and annoyed that oppression-mongering jerks make such delicious chicken and have such polite and cheerful staff. They used to be my favorite fast food.

 

That is all. Please resume coherent discussion.

[Fuzzbucket]

So... for people who cite religious reasons, such as the Bible, to outlaw gay marriages, what about people who cite their own religious reasons as to why it should be become law? Doesn't relying on biblical passages become kind of moot when other people of other faiths believe differently?

Yes.

 

 

[~Kat~]

I have gay friends and love them dearly.

 

I do believe however that marriage is only between a man and a woman.

 

People are entitled to their beliefs, and if a person does not want to go into a particular store becasue they do not like what it stands for, there again that is their prerogative.

 

I like Chic-Fil-A myself.

 

What other people think most of the time does not bother me. Sometimes depending on what it is I will take a stand, and I will not back down.

 

When I was growing up I got my backside tore up the right way. Now, it is oh, that is child abuse. Well let me tell you younger generation, in my time, you did not have people openly smoking pot and doing drugs like it is now, kids did not kill their parents, and peers like they do now, you did not cuss the teacher or be disrespectful. People who were gay kept it quiet. There was prayer in school and we respected our parents and Adults.

 

This younger genereation is to liberal, anything goes and all of you wonder why so much bad stuff is going on around you. Wait until you have kids, , you will reap what you sew.

 

Do any of you say Yes mam and Yes sir? Well my kids do and do still today as adults, and they show respect to others thank goodness. The principles of what this country is based on, have gone out the door. Seems like a lot of the younger generation like more of the bad stuff and bad examples than the good. Well, right is right and wrong is wrong.

 

If they would allow the teachers to start spanking, parents to spank their children to make them mind, and instill good moral values, and send them to church to learn about the goodnness of being a person, this world would be better off.

 

So tell me, is this new way that everything is open and goes, better than the way I grew up with less crime and having respect for others and making something of ourselves and knowing what it means to get ahead in life!!!

 

I can not even imagine what this country will be like in 50 more yrs, I probably will not be around, and glad of it.

 

Like I said, people will reap what they sew,

Edited July 28, 2012 by ~Kat~

[Princess Artemis]

Well let me tell you younger generation, in my time, you did not have people openly smoking pot and doing drugs like it is now

Yes you did. Unless you are 90.

 

kids did not kill their parents, and peers like they do now

 

Yes they did. You just didn't hear about it because there wasn't news on 24/7 and instant messaging and Twitter.

 

you did not tell the teacher to Off either.

 

I'll grant this that teachers got a whole lot more respect in times past.

 

People who were gay kept it quiet.

 

You act like this is a good thing. I gather you are straight; did you keep it quiet, or did you live your life without hiding? That's what I thought.

 

There was prayer in school

 

Wouldn't hurt to have a moment silence now, but not sure what prayer in school would do?

 

we respected our parents and Adults.

 

Granted.

 

 

 

[5icky]

Did you know that the leading cause of divorce is marriage? I like the idea of marriage, but the point of marriage is to be loyal and no one can deal with that. maybe nobody should get married?

not even gays. I am100% for gays(though i am not) i have plenty of homosexual friends but the concept of marriage is just...

[KageSora]

Do any of you say Yes mam and Yes sir? Well my kids do and do still today as adults, and they show respect to others thank goodness. The principles of what this country is based on, have gone out the door. Seems like a lot of the younger generation like more of the bad stuff and bad examples than the good. Well, right is right and wrong is wrong.

 

If they would allow the teachers to start spanking, parents to spank their children to make them mind, and instill good moral values, and send them to church to learn about the goodnness of being a person, this world would be better off.

 

So tell me, is this new way that everything is open and goes, better than the way I grew up with less crime and having respect for others and making something of ourselves and knowing what it means to get ahead in life!!!

 

I can not even imagine what this country will be like in 50 more yrs, I probably will not be around, and glad of it.

 

Like I said, people will reap what they sew, 

I find this quote quite nice:

 

"Those who criticize this generation forget who raised it."

 

'sides, there's plenty of older folks who are downright nasty. Plenty of 'em are sexist, or racist, or bigoted and too stuck in their way of thinking to realize they might not be right.

 

 

And plenty of the younger generations aren't rude jerks. Really, it depends on where you look and who you look at.

 

While I do generally agree that lots of people my age and younger have terrible behavior, they were raised that way by those who came before us!

 

I had a good upbringing, my parents weren't afraid to get the wooden spoon out if me or my brother misbehaved! But I'm more liberal than they are, while they're conservative.

 

See, I think it's deplorable to go treating people like second-class citizens just because they're different.

 

And church doesn't make you a good person. My gramps is a real religious guy, but he's a racist. That's certainly not a good value to be instilled in the younger folks! And I've met plenty of religious people, mostly Christians who have a serious case of rectal-cranial inversion going on. Who attack anybody who isn't just like them.

 

Hell, they attack other Christians of different denominations! Not all of those people who go to church turn out good people. (To be fair, there's a good number of atheists who are real nasty pieces of work, too, as well as people of all other faiths and whatnot.)

 

And what about the priests who molested kids? Or those people who scream abuse at others and claim they're good people because they're Christian? Those are some fine morals they learned in church. /sarcasm.

 

Yes, I know that not all Christians are like that, and that the minority is loud and gets the media attention and all. But those cases still stand as proof that not all people will take good morals from being forced into church. You cannot force belief.

 

I myself was raised Roman Catholic--but I never truly believed, and I do not believe in the God often portrayed by Christianity. Even if you force 'em to go to church, you cannot force them to take away good morals nor can you force them to follow your religion.

 

The problem with people who rely too much on religion is that they cannot think for themselves, and thus cannot see when their own religious belief causes harm. To be fair, there are a large number of non-religious people who rely too much on parroting back what they read and hear as well and cannot think for themselves. But neither side is right when all they can do play the part of the parrot.

 

 

Unless you live in a theocracy, then one religion does not have the right to be forced on the entire population. Why should some people be treated like lesser people, denied the rights that the majority enjoy, because you don't agree with how your God designed them?

 

 

Aaand I think I lost the thread of what I was saying somewhere in there. If something makes no sense or sounds stupid, forgive me, I'm a bit lacking in the sleep department these days. Also point it out to me so I can either explain what I said or correct if I made some typos or whatever.

[7Deadly$ins]

I have gay friends and love them dearly.

 

I do believe however that marriage is only between a man and a woman.

 

People are entitled to their beliefs, and if a person does not want to go into a particular store becasue they do not like what it stands for, there again that is their prerogative.

 

I like Chic-Fil-A myself.

 

What other people think most of the time does not bother me. Sometimes depending on what it is I will take a stand, and I will not back down.

 

When I was growing up I got my backside tore up the right way. Now, it is oh, that is child abuse. Well let me tell you younger generation, in my time, you did not have people openly smoking pot and doing drugs like it is now, kids did not kill their parents, and peers like they do now, you did not tell the teacher to F%*k Off either. People who were gay kept it quiet. There was prayer in school and we respected our parents and Adults.

 

This younger genereation is to liberal, anything goes and all of you wonder why so much bad stuff is going on around you. Wait until you have kids, , you will reap what you sew.

 

Do any of you say Yes mam and Yes sir? Well my kids do and do still today as adults, and they show respect to others thank goodness. The principles of what this country is based on, have gone out the door. Seems like a lot of the younger generation like more of the bad stuff and bad examples than the good. Well, right is right and wrong is wrong.

 

If they would allow the teachers to start spanking, parents to spank their children to make them mind, and instill good moral values, and send them to church to learn about the goodnness of being a person, this world would be better off.

 

So tell me, is this new way that everything is open and goes, better than the way I grew up with less crime and having respect for others and making something of ourselves and knowing what it means to get ahead in life!!!

 

I can not even imagine what this country will be like in 50 more yrs, I probably will not be around, and glad of it.

 

Like I said, people will reap what they sew,

The crime rate is lower today than it has been in decades. You are hardly the first generation to complain about the new generation, and you will hardly be the last.

 

And Icarus, unfortunately there are a number of rights and benefits that people can only obtain through marriage, so, the idea of no one getting married doesn't really work unless the government gets out of marriage completely.

[Princess Artemis]

And church doesn't make you a good person.

No, not necessarily, but I think I know what ~Kat~ is getting at so didn't take issue with it. Doing things together as a community builds a sense of community, oddly enough, and that is good for people. It brings them together.

 

Aaand I think I lost the thread of what I was saying somewhere in there. If something makes no sense or sounds stupid, forgive me, I'm a bit lacking in the sleep department these days. Also point it out to me so I can either explain what I said or correct if I made some typos or whatever.

 

I think you did too. You started to let what I didn't think you had show, which is a distinct distaste for Christians. Frankly, I get a little tired of reading such things around here sometimes, but I understand that Christians are one of the "OK" targets to pick on, the way one wouldn't about other, smaller, religions, faiths, creeds, and worldviews.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Princess Artemis

[hazeh]

-snip-

I was spanked as a child, and by a liberal parent. I grew up fine. I don't cuss out my teachers, I respect everyone- yes, I do say "Sir, Ma'am, Excuse me, etc". Manners aren't lost. Everywhere you look, there will be bad behavior. But there will also be good behavior, which seems to be what you're ignoring. More people nowadays are standing up for what's right- Equality- and treat each other with love and respect. Sure, there are still many people who can't seem to grasp that concept, but there is a lot more respect for women and ethnic minorities than there was in "your" generation.

 

People who are gay shouldn't have to "keep it quiet". Do you keep your straightness quiet? Gay people are people and deserve to be just as open about themselves as any straight person. If you don't like that a gay couple is holding their partner's hand in public- because God forbid they love someone, right?- then look away. It's none of your business.

 

I used to go to Sunday school with my grandparents when I was little. I think it is the most boring thing to do. I have no interest in going to Church, and I know many other people that feel the same way. Sending kids to church isn't going to change anything, because you cannot force someone to believe the way you do. That's it. Believe the way that you want to believe, but you need to understand that other people have different faiths that are just as legitimate as yours. That's why there should absolutely be no governing law that pertains to a religious reason- Like, the banning of gay marriage.

 

Legalizing gay marriage isn't going to stop marriage from being between a man and a woman. It just opens up the possibility for those people who aren't in heterosexual relationships. And there isn't anything wrong with that. Legalizing gay marriage doesn't take ANYTHING away from straight marriage or "holy matrimony". You still have your marriage with God and whatnot. But prohibiting someone from getting married to another consenting adult is rude, hurtful, and completely unnecessary. Banning gay marriage IS forcing your beliefs on someone else. Legalizing gay marriage is not.

[Fuzzbucket]

Did you know that the leading cause of divorce is marriage? I like the idea of marriage, but the point of marriage is to be loyal and no one can deal with that. maybe nobody should get married?

not even gays. I am100% for gays(though i am not) i have plenty of homosexual friends but the concept of marriage is just...

Well yes. But ONLY because if you don't get married you can't get divorced. No matter who you are. For the record I have now been married for 48 years. It can be done. I also have gay friends who have been together as long as we have. It has nothing to do with sexuality; it has to do with who you are and how much you are prepared to commit of yourself.

 

The leading cause of divorce, to ME, is today's "must have it ALL for ME" society.

[~Kat~]

Princess Artemis

 

I am 54 yrs old, so I am not ancient, Yes I am straight.

 

Like I said, I have gay friends and love them dearly.

 

I do believe however that marriage is only between a man and a woman.

 

When talking about people who were gay kept it quiet, they did not make a scene to have equal rights as in marriage as far as legality goes.

 

As far as prayer in school goes, people have rights which were taken away from them. None belivers would not have to go to the room where others would like to pray. This is not fair. But I guess it is fair to non believers, right!!!

 

 

KageSora

 

You are right when you say "Those who criticize this generation forget who raised it."

 

'sides, there's plenty of older folks who are downright nasty. Plenty of 'em are sexist, or racist, or bigoted and too stuck in their way of thinking to realize they might not be right.

 

You could also have said to be fair though, there are others who go to church and are not nasty, or sexist, or racist, or bigoted, but people always tend to want to put down, instead of giving credit to the good people. What you are talking about was maybe in my parents time and especially in their parents time, lol.

 

I have gay friends, and love them dearly and they are welcome in my home anytime. When I have some friends over who do not accept gay people, my gay friends know how to act accordinally and they seem to understand this, as they know they are not accepted to everyone. You would not even know they were gay. So there again, my friends understand the world better than others.

 

I am not a racist, or judge anyone for being gay. However I believe in god, and I try and better myself and do what is right in this world. I do not even look down upon atheists, but don't shove your ideas on me, I will stay away from you. I have an athiest friend, but she does not shove her ideas on people, and I do not shove mine on others or her. We respect each other for our different beliefs. Like she told me, it does not bother her if prayer was in school, not her belief, but it is not going to hurt her to listen to others pray. Not all people that say they are christians are good people, I agree. But then you have other chritians who are good people.

 

7Deadly$ins

 

Crime was way behind when I was growing up believe it or not.

 

If my kids came to me and said they are gay, they and their partner would always be welomed in my home and to be with me wherever I went. I would expect them to act accordinally, and not be kissing and holding hands, as this will never be excepted out in public to a lot of people. So why start something you already know people do not favor!!! There are some things that bother people, like hunting, but I would not sit and talk about hunting to them or in front of them ... that is just an example.

Edited July 28, 2012 by ~Kat~

[7Deadly$ins]

Prayer has no place in schools. We have a separation of church and state for a reason. Public schools are not a place for religion.

 

Whether crimes were "way down" or not when you were growing up, that doesn't change the fact that they are lower now.

[hazeh]

So ~Kat~, what if someone didn't like to see straight people or interracial couples kissing or holding hands? That means they should keep it to themselves right? There was plenty of people making scenes to get interracial marriage legal. What about them? Should they have just kept it to themselves, so that the white christian straight people didn't have to bother with seeing it?

 

If you had gay children and you told them to not be affectionate in front of you, I would expect you would do the same with your straight children too. Not everyone approves of public displays of affection from ANY sexual orientation.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Shiny Hazard Sign

[~Kat~]

7Deadly$ins

 

I do not know where you get your informaion from, but crime has increased where I live, and crime is bad in other places as well.

 

Shiny Hazard Sign

 

So ~Kat~, what if someone didn't like to see straight people or interracial couples kissing or holding hands? That means they should keep it to themselves right? There was plenty of people making scenes to get interracial marriage legal. What about them? Should they have just kept it to themselves, so that the white christian straight people didn't have to bother with seeing it?

 

My husband and our friends we have, do not do this out in public. Yes, we will hold hands but we do not make out in public, there is a place for that behind closed doors. If gays want to hold hands out in public, that does not bother me either.

 

As far as straight interracial couples, I have no objection to them getting married. In the USA where I live they marry all the time. I also have interracial friends

 

Let it be said, because I think a marriage is only for a man and a woman, I myself could care less if gays marry. I am not going to carry on and cause a ruckus.

Edited July 28, 2012 by ~Kat~

[BirdSpirit]

If this video hasn't been shared yet, it definitely should be:

 

 

I found it very inspiring.

[hazeh]

 

 

My husband and our friends we have, do not do this out in public. Yes, we will hold hands but we do not make out in public, there is a place for that behind closed doors. If gays want to hold hands out in public, that does not bother me either.

 

As far as straight interracial couples, I have no objection to them getting married. In the USA where I live they marry all the time. I also have interracial friends

 

Let it be said, because I think a marriage is only for a man and a woman, I myself could care less if gays marry. I am not going to carry on and cause a ruckus.

That's good then. I would hope that if you don't believe gay couples should be expressive out in public, that straight couples shouldn't either.

 

And I wasn't so much as asking your opinion on interracial couples as I was making it out as an example to how many people treat gay couples.

 

It's absolutely fine to believe marriage should only be between a man and a woman. That is your belief. The issue that I have, however, is when people who hold that belief try to make it a governing law- which is wrong. I just don't understand how making gay marriage legal would in any way encroach on a straight marriage.

 

 

Edit: Birdspirit, that video is AMAZING. Omg, tears. <3

Edited July 28, 2012 by Shiny Hazard Sign

[Wantdew]

I felt I should say this... It's about Chick-fil-A...

The family that owns Chick-fil-A are VERY Christian and don't support Gay Marriage, I respect that, but they don't discriminate gays, they don't say gays are unholy, they aren't against gays, just Gay MARRIAGE. There is nothing wrong with NOT supporting Gay Marriage, yet there is nothing wrong with supporting it either.

 

[7Deadly$ins]

Crime rates raised in the States until the mid-90s, at which point they began falling again, to a level comparable with the early 70s, and still falling. Homicides in particular are lower than they were in 1960.

 

Sources: US Bureau of Justice Statistics (2004), Federal Bureau of Investigation, (2010)

 

And Wantdew, when gays are being denied rights because they can't get married, then yes, I do think there is something wrong with not supporting it. They don't have equal rights, and it isn't just about being able to get married -- it's about the rights that come WITH marriage that gays have no way of accessing.

Edited July 28, 2012 by 7Deadly$ins