Jump to content
MURDERcomplexx

Marriage Equality and Other MOGAI/Queer Rights

Recommended Posts

Okay, so I feel like there's a lot of points I would like to make and I'll try to keep it as organized as possible without ranting.

 

On the subject of prayer in school:

 

As an agnostic, I don't want to be forced to pray. I feel awkward when I'm forced to bow my head down and close my eyes when eating dinner at a friends house. I have nothing against religion, but it feels wrong to me to be actively doing something you don't believe in. Why force other people to be uncomfortable for the sake forcing everyone to pray in school? I don't mind the idea of "thinking time", since people will pray to whatever god they believe in and people who don't have a god might just sort their thoughts.

 

Abortion:

 

Personally, I disagree with this being used as a birth control method, but who am I to force children to suffer because of their parent's mistakes. If a parent is unable to care for a child financially/emotionally/mentally, then do not force them to keep the children. Also, to completely ban abortion really sucks for the people who get pregnant and find out that having the baby could kill them, or get pregnant because of rape.

 

Gay Marriage:

 

I don't care if you're gay, straight, black, white, or even yellow with purple polkadots and I highly doubt God gives a crap either. Otherwise, why would you see examples of homosexuality in the animal kingdom? I think it's wrong to condemn people strictly because of their sexuality. Them being with their own gender does nothing to you. They do not need to be saved. And contrary to some of the beliefs here, they do not feed off the government.

 

I've been hit on by a number of my friends who are bi or lesbian and it doesn't bother me. No, I don't like girls. I take it as a compliment and tell them that I'm not interested. Then, it's over and we're back to normal.

 

I think people who go out and physically harm homosexuals because they think it's evil, are disgusting. We've gotten past the issue of skin color (mostly) and religion (mostly), so why can't we brush aside the fact that people like other kinds of people?

 

On another note, I think gays should be allowed to marry. I understand that it is seen as a religious thing and being homosexual goes "agaisnt" Christianity, but it's so much more than that now. It's a matter of legality. It's not right to prevent someone from giving another the health insurence they need to save them, visit them in the hospital or rights to children in case of a break up simply because they aren't married.

 

No matter what, we are all human and deserve to be treated as such.

I normally don't post in this thread but I had to peak in at the last post again and saw this.

 

I cannot agree further with this post. I 100% agree with everything said here.

Share this post


Link to post

I shall try to keep this short and sweet:

 

Prayer in School:

 

I have no religion that I follow. To be honest, I believe in an array of Gods, Goddesses, Spirits, Angels, Demons, etc., that can take action and assist or hurt us in our daily lives. If I were told I had to pray to a God that I had no connection to, I would feel insulted. If I had to pray in school, I would feel smothered and uncomfortable. I don't like the idea of being forced into something that doesn't feel right. It's basically a rape of my rights as a human being to make me pray. However, I do not have a problem with individual prayer. If you want to pray at home, or in the school cafeteria before a meal, or even during the last few minutes before a show in your drama group, feel free. I simply won't join you, but I won't interrupt. That's how it should be, in my perspective: everyone should be allowed to do as they wish. No one should be forced to pray if they don't want to, and no one should force others not to pray. We good? Good.

 

 

Abortion:

 

On principle, I'm against this. I do not like the idea of taking the life of an innocent child who has not even developed eyes yet. It disgusts me. But I can understand not wanting to keep a child. My friends, who are not very well off, had to have an abortion because they couldn't feed another child. I disliked their decision, but I didn't tell them they couldn't do it, because it was their decision. Abortion should be that: a decision. It's a right to keep or abort. You can do either, if you wish. It's your decision.

 

 

Gay Marriage:

 

Let's make this clear first - I'm gay. I'll try to stay unbiased in this, but I might slip at times.

 

People, I doubt God cares who the hell you sleep with, love, or marry. I think He would care that you love. He would want any kind of love to try and help to save our world, to save the human race. Denying people the chance to love - even if it is people of their own gender - pretty much destroys that. It hurts them in ways you couldn't imagine. I know, I wanted to marry a guy I did love, but the rules of his country dictated we couldn't do that. We had to deal with a civil partnership. Now, most people will say that's the same thing as marriage. But it isn't. It wouldn't feel like a marriage to me, and I doubt it would have felt like one to him. I loved this person, and I wanted to be free to walk into a church with him, wearing a white suit, and say "I do," when asked if I wanted him as my husband. It would've made me the happiest person alive to be able to do that, but according to the laws, that would have been wrong.

 

It sucks when you can't do the things you want. It sucks when people tell you that you can't pray somewhere if you want to. It sucks if they say you can't abort a child, even one that was conceived in a way that would bring you nightmares, because it's wrong. It sucks if they say that you being yourself makes you an abomination.

 

I am not an abomination. People who pray are not abominations. People who abort children are not abominations.

 

We're human. Treat us like humans. Treat us like you want to be treated. We'll do the same. It's how life could work. Just try it. You'll be surprised as to what happens.

 

 

First and last post here. I said all I wanted to say.

Share this post


Link to post

You could also have said to be fair though, there are others who go to church and are not nasty, or sexist, or racist, or bigoted, but people always tend to want to put down, instead of giving credit to the good people.

I suppose so, yes. Though to be absolutely fair, there are people who both go to church and who don't go to church who are wonderful people and there are people who both go to church and who don't go to church who run from "kinda a jerk" to "absolute monster".

 

I think what I was trying to say was that church attendance itself is not a guarantee that you will be a good person, and that lack of church attendance itself is not a guarantee you will be a horrible person.

 

I usually see people going "I go to church, I'm a Christian, I'm right and better than you!" instead of "I don't go to church, I'm not a Christian, I'm right and better than you!" It happens, I know, but I don't often see it in the places I go so the idea of it doesn't come to mind as readily as what I see more often.

 

No, not necessarily, but I think I know what ~Kat~ is getting at so didn't take issue with it.  Doing things together as a community builds a sense of community, oddly enough, and that is good for people.  It brings them together.

 

I think you did too.  You started to let what I didn't think you had show, which is a distinct distaste for Christians.  Frankly, I get a little tired of reading such things around here sometimes, but I understand that Christians are one of the "OK" targets to pick on, the way one wouldn't about other, smaller, religions, faiths, creeds, and worldviews.

That's true, but that doesn't need to be a church-based thing. I was more trying to say that church itself is not going to make you a better person, since I honestly have seen people of the opinion that it's the act of going to church itself that makes you a better person. And that not going to church is the reason people are bad.

 

I apologize for coming off as rather anti-Christian. I could probably have worded what I was trying to say better. I was frustrated because I far too often see people who claim to be "Christian" behaving in a very un-Christian manner, though I know that not all Christians are like that.

 

I've just seen plenty of times where "Christians" bring up terrible things done by people of other faiths or atheists and use that as "proof" that not being Christian teaches you to be a terrible person, while completely ignoring the fact that there are people who have been raised all their life in a Christian faith who are still terrible people and who commit grave crimes against their fellow humans.

 

To be fair, the reverse is also true. While those extreme cases where a religious person causes harm to another is obviously not proof that all religious people are terrible people, they DO prove that just by being religious, or even a religious leader, you are not automatically a good person, which I've seen assumed many places.

 

Both Christians and non-Christians have very good people and very terrible people who make up their ranks. Though, in the case of the Christians I suppose they're not really Christian and just call themselves that because they attend church or whatnot.

 

Generally speaking, I don't care what a person believes--it's totally their right to be for or against anything. But I do care when they then want to restrict the rights of those who don't share that belief by transforming their beliefs into law.

 

And again, generally speaking, I mostly see "Christians" who are being anti-gay and who are determined to deny them equal rights because it's "wrong" be be gay. I'm also more familiar with Christians, so I can't exactly post based on anything but what I know--which is people who are acting decidedly un-Christian while claiming to be.

 

And I did rather take offense to the idea about the younger generations being worse than the older ones simply because we're more liberal.

 

That said, I do think that I allowed my irritability over the many times I've seen "Christians" behaving quite nastily, and my lack of sleep, to get the better of me and I am sorry for offense I have given.

 

Aaand I think I'm still failing horribly at trying to word what I wanted to say properly, which is incredibly frustrating. sleep.gif' Also, I fear that I may have, indeed, begun to develop a distinct bias against Christians after all the BS I've seen the "Christians" saying, as well as my parents' behavior. Please, can you point out to me specific things I said that show that distaste? I'd like to try and avoid becoming a bitter, Christian-hater and would appreciate some insight about where I'm going wrong.

 

Also, I think I'll try drawing back a little from some of the stuff I've been involved in, then, to try and give myself a bit of a breather and some space to think things through properly.

Share this post


Link to post
People can pray on their own time in school, no one stops them from doing that. But teacher-led prayer, is in fact, wasting my time as a student who does not pray. So yes, it is in essence, harming some.

Speaking of, In my pre-school I went to MANY years ago, everyone was FORCED to pray before eating and this preschool was NOT a religious school. And if one kid took a BITE by mistake before we started, they would have their lunch taken up. It was our vice principal who made us. And when she was absent, no one did. I heard after several years of leaving, she was fired eventually

Share this post


Link to post

Both Christians and non-Christians have very good people and very terrible people who make up their ranks. Though, in the case of the Christians I suppose they're not really Christian and just call themselves that because they attend church or whatnot.

 

I'm a Christian and I attend church, that's it. Everything else I do could make me seem very Athiest.

Share this post


Link to post
It is hurting the people who are atheists and pay taxes so that children may learn.

Forcing anyone who does not use public schools at all, especially those who have a philosophical objection to state-run schools, to still pay taxes for them hurts them, but I don't see a whole lot of people here up in arms trying to defend their rights. I don't imagine a lot of people here even consider that, given the current secular idea of of public school is the only one they have ever known. Go read up on the history of public school in the US. It's pretty interesting.

 

Anyway. Howabout that gay marriage?

 

Aaand I think I'm still failing horribly at trying to word what I wanted to say properly, which is incredibly frustrating

 

Apology accepted and thank you for trying to explain; I get what you're saying. I'll PM you tomorrow, if you don't mind that, in regards to your question. It's late, otherwise I would now.

 

I'll just say that what you're seeing is, more or less, an overlap of the large population of jerks and the large population of Christians. It's just a lot of people are obnoxious and a lot of people are nominally Christian, so naturally one will run into a lot of people who are both obnoxious and Christian : ) Alas, the obnoxious tend to be loud as well.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Same goes with prayer in school. It is not hurting anyone. You have people that like prayer and then you have the Athiests.

 

So let prayer back in schools then.

Which religion would you allow ? Only yours ? Even in my school. YEARS ago, where prayers were not only allowed but practically enforced, there had to be arrangements for anyone who subscribed to a different religion to leave the room/hall first. That actually included Roman Catholics, a it was an Anglican school, and many of them found Anglican prayers offensive.

 

At that time I was a believer, and even I found the prayers so offensive I seriously considered (at the age of 12-13) asking my parents to say I was of a different religion so that I could pray on my own, in private. I think prayer is essentially a very private thing. Sadly the school would never have believed me as my father was a minister. But it was this kind of thing that totally turned me off organised religion of all kinds.

 

Forcing a religion (in the form of prayers or anything else) is no way to celebrate it.

Share this post


Link to post

When talking about people who were gay kept it quiet, they did not make a scene to have equal rights as in marriage as far as legality goes.

 

Because if they did they were put in psychiatric hospitals.

 

As far as prayer in school goes, people have rights which were taken away from them. None belivers would not have to go to the room where others would like to pray. This is not fair. But I guess it is fair to non believers, right!!!

 

I'm sorry, but they didn't do it in a single room, they did it IN THE CLASSROOM, which would hurt me, thanks.

 

The overall violent crime rate has dropped to 1/3 of what it was 17 years ago, which is down a further 1/2 from when it peaked in 1952. [Federal Bureau of Investigation, Study on Violent Crime Rates since 1925] Further, violent crime dropped another 5.5% in 2010.

 

I would expect them to act accordinally, and not be kissing and holding hands, as this will never be excepted out in public to a lot of people. So why start something you already know people do not favor!!!

 

I'm sorry, but that is horrible! You're allowed to hold your wife's hand, but they're not allowed to hold their partner's hand because of what people think?

 

Now I admit, I'm not Jewish, but I thought a large part of Jesus's purported Ministry was standing up for what was right against "what people accepted." I thought they held that you stood up for what was right, irregardless of situation or whether or not you were persecuted.

 

 

The only RIGHT the aren't getting is a certificate.

 

Not true! We don't have the right to visit our partners in hospital, to file joint taxes, to retain custody of our children, to inherit property from our spouses, to receive insurance benefits, or make final arrangements for our partners.

 

If I were to die today, my father could take my son from my wife, have me buried in a Navajo ceremony rather than a Jewish one, take ownership of all my possessions and take my half of the deed to our home.

 

I was not raised to believe in many partners in marriage.

 

Which is fine. I myself am monogamous, but I have no right to say something is wrong when G-d clearly did not.

 

Same goes with prayer in school. It is not hurting anyone.

 

I'm sorry, but prayer in schools used to be directed to Jesus, which would spiritually hurt me. As a Jew, that is blasphemy, and one is not supposed to worship a man. I would not want my children being forced to sin.

 

It takes less than 3 minutes to say a prayer.

 

And in that time, it can spiritually hurt a Jewish person. Not everyone is Christian, and not everyone can be "okay" with praying in schools because it hurts them.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

Which is fine. I myself am monogamous, but I have no right to say something is wrong when G-d clearly did not.

...Wait, what? I'm sorry to butt in, but I'm curious.

 

NobleOwl, do you actually hold the position that you can't make any moral judgments about anything that God hasn't spoken of? I would imagine that there are lots of issues that aren't in the Torah or other alleged inspired writings. Do you have to remain neutral then?

 

Also, if you can't judge that something is wrong without God's permission, can you judge something as being right?

 

- Truly Confused

Share this post


Link to post

I apologize for coming off as rather anti-Christian.  I could probably have worded what I was trying to say better.  I was frustrated because I far too often see people who claim to be "Christian" behaving in a very un-Christian manner, though I know that not all Christians are like that.

 

I've just seen plenty of times where "Christians" bring up terrible things done by people of other faiths or atheists and use that as "proof" that not being Christian teaches you to be a terrible person, while completely ignoring the fact that there are people who have been raised all their life in a Christian faith who are still terrible people and who commit grave crimes against their fellow humans.

 

To be fair, the reverse is also true.  While those extreme cases where a religious person causes harm to another is obviously not proof that all religious people are terrible people, they DO prove that just by being religious, or even a religious leader, you are not automatically a good person, which I've seen assumed many places.

 

Both Christians and non-Christians have very good people and very terrible people who make up their ranks.  Though, in the case of the Christians I suppose they're not really Christian and just call themselves that because they attend church or whatnot.

 

Generally speaking, I don't care what a person believes--it's totally their right to be for or against anything.  But I do care when they then want to restrict the rights of those who don't share that belief by transforming their beliefs into law.

 

And again, generally speaking, I mostly see "Christians" who are being anti-gay and who are determined to deny them equal rights because it's "wrong" be be gay.  I'm also more familiar with Christians, so I can't exactly post based on anything but what I know--which is people who are acting decidedly un-Christian while claiming to be.

 

And I did rather take offense to the idea about the younger generations being worse than the older ones simply because we're more liberal.

 

That said, I do think that I allowed my irritability over the many times I've seen "Christians" behaving quite nastily, and my lack of sleep, to get the better of me and I am sorry for offense I have given.

 

Aaand I think I'm still failing horribly at trying to word what I wanted to say properly, which is incredibly frustrating.  sleep.gif'  Also, I fear that I may have, indeed, begun to develop a distinct bias against Christians after all the BS I've seen the "Christians" saying, as well as my parents' behavior.  Please, can you point out to me specific things I said that show that distaste?  I'd like to try and avoid becoming a bitter, Christian-hater and would appreciate some insight about where I'm going wrong.

 

Also, I think I'll try drawing back a little from some of the stuff I've been involved in, then, to try and give myself a bit of a breather and some space to think things through properly.

I know that feeling very well, KageSora. Everytime I see a "Christian" trying to force their beliefs onto other people, or bashing "sinners" for doing things against their religion, even when it's something minor like homosexuality, being athetiest, or whatever; I get pissed and it makes me think less of Christians. I see this behavior on Youtube and on the news. ((A few days ago on CNN, I saw a lesbian victim of hate crime saying that she had slurs carved into her body.)) I'm also biased against conservative republicans because some of them are trying to put their religious beliefs into the government when the church is suppose to be separated from the state. So why put that into the federal government?

 

But I try to keep myself from becoming too biased, because I know there are some Christians who don't agree with what their fellows says or do. I know my mother is a Christian, but she doesn't think gays and lesbians should be judged by people. She wants God to be the only one to do the judging, because the Christian religion says for people to not judge their fellow man. Unfortunately, that religion rule is often broken too many times by hypocritical people claiming to be Christian. My mom was also against NC Amendment 1, she and I voted 'No' to it.

Edited by Red Dragonette

Share this post


Link to post

...I am frustrated and annoyed that oppression-mongering jerks make such delicious chicken and have such polite and cheerful staff. They used to be my favorite fast food.

 

That is all. Please resume coherent discussion.

You are a total idiot... Chik-fil-A is a family owned company they have nothing against gays they just don't support gay marrige! If it all came down on a ballot the family that owns them wouldn't vote.

Everyone keep in mind that these people are intitled to their own opinions.

Edited by Wantdew

Share this post


Link to post
You are a total idiot... Chik-fil-A is a family owned company they have nothing against gays they just don't support gay marrige! If it all came down on a ballot the family that owns them wouldn't vote.

Everyone keep in mind that these people are intitled to their own opinions.

I heard that Chick-fil-a's been donating their money to anti-gay organizations. I don't know if that proves they're going against gays or not. They're free to support traditional marriage, since we're all entitled to our beliefs. But I'm just not going to eat there anymore, because I don't want my money going to the anti-gay groups. Go ahead, call me moron, idiot, anything. But just remember that I, too, am entitled to doing whatever I want, even if it's going against Chick-fil-a. Besides, my dad doesn't like their food anyway and my mom's become allergic to their stuff.

Share this post


Link to post

I heard that Chick-fil-a's been donating their money to anti-gay organizations. I don't know if that proves they're going against gays or not. They're free to support traditional marriage, since we're all entitled to our beliefs. But I'm just not going to eat there anymore, because I don't want my money going to the anti-gay groups. Go ahead, call me moron, idiot, anything. But just remember that I, too, am entitled to doing whatever I want, even if it's going against Chick-fil-a. Besides, my dad doesn't like their food anyway and my mom's become allergic to their stuff.

I'm pretty sure that isn't true, the family could be doing that but probobly not Chick-fil-A it self. I believe we are all intitled to our own opinions and that this country should be how it was suppossed to be(A free Republic, gay rights, racial rights, no discrimintion.)

Oh and is your mom allirgic to peanuts?

Edited by Wantdew

Share this post


Link to post

Yes she is. She's also allergic to carrots, corn, wheat, and soy. One time she ate a carrot salad from Chick-fil-a and her face started to swell. My younger sister called to have an ambulance come and mom to the hospital. Thankfully, she survived. I was so worried!

Share this post


Link to post

You are a total idiot... Chik-fil-A is a family owned company they have nothing against gays they just don't support gay marrige! If it all came down on a ballot the family that owns them wouldn't vote.

Everyone keep in mind that these people are intitled to their own opinions.

 

Yes, they are, but they also give the money from the company to anti-gay organisations such as --

 

Marriage & Family Foundation

Exodus International

Family Research Council

 

Just to be clear, Exodus International is an organization that tries to "cure" homosexuality, often of children whose parents force them into "reparative therapy."

 

NobleOwl, do you actually hold the position that you can't make any moral judgments about anything that God hasn't spoken of?

 

Not at all! My point is that were G-d to believe polygamy wrong, he would have said so instead of simply outlining how polygamy had to work for Jews. He places no limits, simply says not "too many."

 

I'm pretty sure that isn't true, the family could be doing that but probobly not Chick-fil-A it self.

 

It''s true:

 

Chick-fil-A gave $2 million to seven anti-gay groups in 2010, the most recent year for which figures are available, according to Equality Matters' analysis of its charitable giving.

 

Marriage & Family Foundation: $1,188,380

Fellowship Of Christian Athletes: $480,000

National Christian Foundation: $247,500

New Mexico Christian Foundation: $54,000

Exodus International: $1,000

Family Research Council: $1,000

Georgia Family Council: $2,500

 

Chick-fil-A made its donations through WinShape, its non-profit giving arm.

 

 

Edited by NobleOwl

Share this post


Link to post

If someone wants to donate to an anti-gay organization, I guess that is up to them. I myself will not donate to an anti-gay organization.

 

I will not donate outside of this country when it comes to taking care of people other than anything Military to help our Brave men and woman who help our nation and protect me. I will also donate for animal causes as well, smile.gif

Edited by ~Kat~

Share this post


Link to post

I know that feeling very well, KageSora. Everytime I see a "[X]" trying to [A], or bashing "[Y]" for doing [Z], even when it's something minor like , being [C], or whatever; I get pissed and it makes me think less of [X].

Fill in the blanks, and you have the recipe for racism, sexism, cis-sexism, anti-gay sentiment, anti-Semitism, and religious based hatreds of every kind.

 

But, as I said to KageSora, I understand that it's OK to be openly biased against Christians because there are so many Christians that apparently none of us have any standing to be treated like individuals the way that minority classes do.

 

I'm sorry, but that is horrible! You're allowed to hold your wife's hand, but they're not allowed to hold their partner's hand because of what people think?

 

Now I admit, I'm not Jewish, but I thought a large part of Jesus's purported Ministry was standing up for what was right against "what people accepted." I thought they held that you stood up for what was right, irregardless of situation or whether or not you were persecuted.

 

I missed the quote you were responding to, and it is horrible. You should be allowed to hold your wife's hand just as much as any straight person is allowed to hold their spouse's hand in public.

 

And you're not Jewish? That's news to me laugh.gif (I keed, I keed) You're right though, part of what Jesus did was pretty clear standing up for what was right against "just what was done", and he taught that his followers should do the same and not be surprised in the least when we got in trouble with society for it.

Edited by Princess Artemis

Share this post


Link to post

I'll start off by saying that I am for gay marriage. That said, I am finding myself starting to feel conflicted on the movement itself. I am starting to feel that certain 'elements' of the movement are starting to cause more harm than good.

 

I'm talking about attacks on people and businesses that do not support the movement. The Chick-a-fila thing is one example: the family that runs it are entitled to their opinion and gays have the right to boycott the franchise if they want in protest. However, trying to block the company from setting up shop in a city is going to far and only hurts the cause, IMO.

 

Another, not so long ago, example is a gay couple purposely going to a Christain owned/run hotel and trying to get a room. When the hotel owners refused them, they 'lawyered up' and sued them. These two already knew they would likely refuse them service...so why did they do this besides to try to ruin the business? There was apparently a similar case in my own city with a 'mom and pop' store that were also very Christrian: the gay couple in this case forced them out of business (and again, they purposely went there and outted themselves when they already knew they would be denied: they had a 'we have the right to deny service to anyone for any reason' sign on their door to boot). That one is third hand, so no idea how true it is.

 

This next example is also third hand at best, and I haven't been able to find a source myself, so I don't know how old the story is (if it even happened at all), so take it with a heap of salt.

 

Apparently, in Canada, there was a church that was fully supportive of gays and marriage for them and a number of their membership was gay. That is until one of their gay members decided to firebomb it simply because the church was Christain. The pastor ended up kicking out all the gays, as he no longer could trust any of them (other gays in the congragation 'knew' about the planned attack, but did not warn the church) and is now anti-gay marriage.

 

It's those kinds of things that are hurting the gay rights movement. And, these attacks seem to be done to Christians most of the time: even on those that are supporters of their cause (if that one story is to be believed). I know this may be likely because the US is predominately Christian, but I have yet to see acts against say...Islam (where in some Islamic run countries, like Iran, where being gay is a death sentence flat out). Is it happening and I'm not just hearing about it?

 

Not that I condone attacking any religion on this issue that is. Attacking anyone for 'disagreeing' is wrong and only hurts your (general) position. So why is there a sect of homosexuals that are falling into this kind of trap? I know there's extremists in every group, but you'd think the non-extremists would condemn such actions to try to minimize the damage. My brother (whom used to be for gay marriage until these kinds of things start happening) claims the extremists gays are the majority and if that's true (which I personally find hard to believe), than gay rights movement will end up killing itself.

 

That said, I want to remain for gay marriage (and other rights), but these things are starting to waver my stance a little. Unfortunately, I am very bad at researching these things myself (as in: can never figure out the right search terms to use), so I am not having much luck in the way of reassuring myself.

Share this post


Link to post

 

And you're not Jewish? That's news to me laugh.gif (I keed, I keed) You're right though, part of what Jesus did was pretty clear standing up for what was right against "just what was done", and he taught that his followers should do the same and not be surprised in the least when we got in trouble with society for it.

 

STUPIDEST MISTAKE I HAVE EVER MADE.

 

Yes, I am still Jewish. I started out writing I'm not Chrisstian and then was going to change it to I am Jewish but didn't edit it right.

 

Bah, me.

 

Still Jewish, no worries.

Share this post


Link to post

Slaskia

 

I believe that marriage is between one man and one woman, however if gays want to get married I am not going to cause a ruckus.

 

Chick-a-fila has a right to not believe in gay unions, and it is the right of gays to boycott the franchise if they want. It is wrong of the gays to block the company from setting up shop in a city, as this hurts more people than just the gays.

 

The gay couple that purposely went to a christian hotel knowing they may be turned away, and then tried to sue, are low class in my opinion. They should have just walked away and found other lodgings. If I had been on a jury, I would never have agreed they could sue that is for sure. These people were just trouble makers trying to force themselves and their beliefs on others.

 

As far as the church goes, I would have kicked out all those gay christians, even the ones that new about it and did not tell, as this is not something a good christian would do, and they would never have been allowed back. As far as new gays wanting to join, I would have allowed it. People should not condem all gays because you have a few bad ones. You have some bad christians as well.

Edited by ~Kat~

Share this post


Link to post
That said, I want to remain for gay marriage (and other rights), but these things are starting to waver my stance a little. Unfortunately, I am very bad at researching these things myself (as in: can never figure out the right search terms to use), so I am not having much luck in the way of reassuring myself.

If you want to remain for [X] that you believe is right, do so, disregarding any extremism that may or may not be there. Because if you believe it is right, that is the important part. The obnoxious and the jerks DON'T change what is right.

Share this post


Link to post
Slaskia

 

I believe that marriage is between one man and one woman, however if gays want to get married I am not going to cause a ruckus.

 

Chick-a-fila has a right to not believe in gay unions, and it is the right of gays to boycott the franchise if they want. It is wrong of the gays to block the company from setting up shop in a city, as this hurts more people than just the gays.

 

The gay couple that purposely went to a christian hotel knowing they may be turned away, and then tried to sue, are low class in my opinion. They should have just walked away and found other lodgings. If I had been on a jury, I would never have agreed they could sue that is for sure. These people were just trouble makers trying to force themselves and their beliefs on others.

 

As far as the church goes, I would have kicked out all those gay christians, even the ones that new about it and did not tell, as this is not something a good christian would do, and they would never have been allowed back. As far as new gays wanting to join, I would have allowed it. People should not condem all gays because you have a few bad ones. You have some bad christians as well.

And if they can't find other lodgings?

 

The point is, religion does not belong in law because there are so many different religions out there. One cannot say it's better than the others. Religion is a deep set of beliefs. Belief is not fact, as much as some people of religion like to believe. If you want to believe in Christianity/Judaism/Islam/Shintoism/etc as fact, that's your right, but please don't try to push it on me or other people.

 

I was a Christian. I grew up with the teachings of Christ. Yet it seems that a lot of Christians seem to forget that Jesus gave one final commandment, one to be followed above all others. It is the essential golden rule, round in many religions and childhood teachings, "Love thy neighbor as thyself".

 

Not "Love thy neighbor only if they are a "good" white Christian".

 

Love thy neighbor regardless.

 

Jesus walked among the sick and the sinners; the outcasts. He supported those who were "dirty" and unclean.

 

Another thing that seems to be forgotten is that Christians do not have to follow the rules of Leviticus. You cannot pick and choose which laws to follow. You follow all or none. And in still trying to follow the rules (well, only some), Christians are essentially spitting in the face of God by saying "The sacrifice of your son wasn't good enough for us. He didn't die to save us from our sins."

 

If there is a God (and I believe there is, just not a God of any specific religion /Agnostic Nondenominational), then it's his/her place to judge us. Not humanities place to judge others. We should embrace and tolerate what makes us different.

 

Now, reading through the past few pages, I saw an argument that compared gay marriage to rapists.

 

One is a choice between two consenting adults. Their union does not hurt me or anyone else. The idea of a same sex marriage might make some people uncomfortable, but that should not make it illegal. Seeing anyone making out in public, regardless of their sex, makes me uncomfortable, but you don't see me touting an anti-straight marriage campaign. But I digress.

 

Rape is not an act of consent. Rape is an act of force and control. It hurts the victim, and having been a victim of rape, and knowing others, it is a crime punishable by law. No rape victim gives their consent to be raped. It causes physical trauma, emotional trauma, and psychological trauma. A friend of mine has PTSD from being raped. It triggers her at just the mere mention of the word. Comparing gay marriage, something which harms no one, to rape, something which causes extreme harm, is a ridiculous comparison. It's like comparing a grape to a piece of steak.

 

Gay marriage would not destroy the sanctity of traditional marriage. A lot of gay couples have been together for decades unable to get married. They have been completely faithful to their partner in spite of being unable to get married.

 

When New York legalized gay marriage, couples lined up to wait. They held hands, they smiled, they cried tears of joy--just like a "traditional" couple would.

 

The "sanctity" of "traditional marriage" has been under siege for a long, long time by straight couples. The divorce in today's society is incredibly high (I think it's around 40-50%?). Isn't divorce frowned upon in religion? But I suppose it's one of those rules that's simply bent, but again I digress.

 

A man and a woman can get married in Vegas after knowing each other for six hours. A man and a woman can get married three, four, five, six times or more. My best friend's mom has had four husbands. Kim Kardashian? Got married and divorced after 72 days.

 

That is hardly sanctity of marriage, and in my opinion, not worth protecting.

 

A gay couple who are in a committed relationship for decades cannot get married because a small group of people believe it's "wrong".

 

Edit: Whoops, dropped an "s". -tacks that back on-

Edited by Kila

Share this post


Link to post
And if they can't find other lodgings?

 

I will not aswer that as the post said they went there on purpose. Will not play devils advocate.

 

Yes, gays can get marrried here, as you said in your post, and gays also divorce just like hetro couples.

Share this post


Link to post

No one knows besides the couple themselves on whether or not they were testing the hotel to see if they would be kicked out or not. For all we know, they could have just needed a place to sleep, made arangements with the first available hotel and been outraged when they got thrown out because of their sexuality.

 

Regardless of the hotel's religious practices, no one should be kicked out for such a silly reason. How would you feel if you got kicked out of a place because of your skin color or the country you come from?

Share this post


Link to post


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.