Abortion

[Obscure_Trash]

Doesn't it cost millions to get your ad on there?

The average is like 3.5 million. I thought I heard somewhere he was looking for donations to help pay for the ad, but I may have also made that up. I was listening to something on the radio talking about ads and they may have said someone else was looking for donations and I somehow put that to his name.

Edited January 14, 2012 by SockPuppet Strangler

[philpot123]

And abortion isn't BAD because there's some unnecessary abortoins.

I didn't say that abortion is bad BECAUSE there are unnecessary ones. That would be like saying rape is bad because sometimes drugs are involved. It's taking a certain example of it and saying it's bad BECAUSE of that, and that seems very logically unsound I have my reasons for believing abortion is wrong, and it's not *because* there are unnecessary ones.

[Lila]

That made me shiver. So glad it's not being shown anywhere neeeear me.

 

Wonder if I can find the ads on youtube.

 

Going to check out The Abortion Gang, too.

Quite unfortunately, I don't believe we'd need this ad running in my area because I live in Texas. I live with a bunch of Southern Baptists. They're nice people but a lot of them...not too bright.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Lila

[elderberrysyrup]

I wonder, what is it about a (percieved) child's life being ended that is so horrific that I see it argued in that moral-based standpoint, as compared with, say, murder or violence? I mean, if this kind of effort against abortion was moved to stop domestic violence, racist violence, etc. then a lot would be accomplished.

[xhunter]

speeking of annoy disgraceful ads

(this is a abortion ad that the video is about, its a youtube link.)

 

for one abortion is not about race its about stealing the right of a female and giving it to a fetus. shows how dirty anti-abortion people will become to try and make a point that they can't prove other than there bibles say. i feel sorry for the child there ad had on it.

 

i have only one quote to say, "The only ones that play dirty are the ones that know there at fault." you should not have to play dirty if you believe that your right.

[Kai]

I wonder, what is it about a (percieved) child's life being ended that is so horrific that I see it argued in that moral-based standpoint, as compared with, say, murder or violence? I mean, if this kind of effort against abortion was moved to stop domestic violence, racist violence, etc. then a lot would be accomplished.

usually they're trying to pretend its law rather than religion

[Brite]

I wonder, what is it about a (percieved) child's life being ended that is so horrific that I see it argued in that moral-based standpoint, as compared with, say, murder or violence? I mean, if this kind of effort against abortion was moved to stop domestic violence, racist violence, etc. then a lot would be accomplished.

That's what gets me so upset. "Soldiers slaughtering and being slaughtered during the war? Yawn, oh well. Fetuses with no conscience existence aborted? How awful! Burn those people!"

 

They'll believe any law. Doesn't mean it's true. I could put pass a dumb law that others have to follow but it doesn't have to be true. A fetus is not a person, no matter how many personhood bills are passed. There's my point.

Edited January 14, 2012 by GhostChilli

[SoundFury]

What the hell? I LOVE watching football and I do not want to see chopped up bloody fetuses during a break. My little nephew will be watching it with me and he does not need to see that!! In fact, no one does! What the hell is that guy's problem? He is not helping any situation

[Brite]

What the hell? I LOVE watching football and I do not want to see chopped up bloody fetuses during a break. My little nephew will be watching it with me and he does not need to see that!! In fact, no one does! What the hell is that guy's problem? He is not helping any situation

Beg to differ, there are a lot of pro-birthers helping his funds. But there are also pro-lifers who don't this commercial passing and seeing it as wrong. Plus he's using flat out propaganda.

[Red Dragonette]

This article has a link at the bottom that lists the 40 cities where Terry is trying to place his ads, in case anyone was interested in watching the Super Bowl at a different network.

 

http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/7491718599.html

Why do pro-life people keep putting up ads of fetuses getting aborted? I hate how they keep doing that when in reality, most women have abortions during the 1st Trimester. Why don't they ever show ads about embryos or zygotes being aborted? At least that's much more truthful as most women have abortions really early and the unborn baby shouldn't be fetuses yet in that stage. Unless of course they think that's not going to gain much support from the viewers. Frickin cowards!

 

Source

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html

 

By the way, I absolutely do not promote this ad being shown at the Super Bowl. What happened to 'Let's think about the children'? Nobody should have to see such a bloody mess at the football game. It'll ruin everything!

 

And also, fetuses do NOT feel pain until 26 or 29 weeks into pregnancy. Most people say that 'if it feels pain, then it is a person'. Well if a fetus before 26 weeks doesn't feel pain, then guess what? It is NOT A PERSON! Get it?

 

Source

http://news.discovery.com/human/fetus-pain-abortion-law.html

 

Wikipedia cites its sources too.

 

Sorry, I was worried about people not taking me seriously back then, because some folks say that wikipedia is an unreliable source of information.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Red Dragonette

[Shienvien]

And also, fetuses do NOT feel pain until 26 or 29 weeks into pregnancy. Most people say that 'if it feels pain, then it is a person'. Well if a fetus before 26 weeks doesn't feel pain, then guess what? It is NOT A PERSON! Get it?

I once even saw an article which claimed ~32 weeks, though it would take me quite some time to find from the site's archives. I might do so afterwards; it is quite late here. (It had an in-English source, too, I recall.)

 

For me, the ability to feel pain (=there are appropriate nerve-endings) isn't much of a factor, though - the ability to process it (=there is a section of the brain devoted to it) is. If it can comprehend that it is in pain, then it has a part of the base what it takes to be a person.

 

In the other words, I judge personhood after brain-development and, to about as great extent, viability. If it can survive outside the mother's body (with the aid of technology), the amount of reasons for terminating it drop very abruptly. (And note, abortions aren't performed in that stage.)

[Kai]

rats can also feel pain

[Brite]

That's also another thing that annoys me. They don't care even if the fetus felt no pain, they still want to stop it. But oh sure, let the animals suffer much worse in experiments where the animal is very conscience and aware of what's going on.

[Dr. Paine]

That's also another thing that annoys me. They don't care even if the fetus felt no pain, they still want to stop it. But oh sure, let the animals suffer much worse in experiments where the animal is very conscience and aware of what's going on.

Animals aren't anywhere near as important as humans though, why care about them? /derp

[xhunter]

Animals aren't anywhere near as important as humans though, why care about them? /derp

what makes a human more important? animals have endured more pain from humans than the other way around. technically both animals and human breath, mate, and eat so there both animals.

 

humans are not more important than a animal though they are no less either. both feel pain and suffering and animals feel more, humans affect even the wild animals even more because people see them as harmful and useless to their case so they sometimes poison them, shoot them, steal their homes, make them into test subjects for beauty supply, and other disrespect them.

 

and to answer the last question you had, this is not meant as a harassment mind you, but we need to care about them because they affect the welfare of this world when it comes to life as well as feed use, cloth use (Furs and things like wool), aid in human health (mainly things like rescue dogs), helps balance the other breeds in the world as well as a lot more. animals are were important and we as humans have harmed them more with our carelessness threw the years, it has always been one of humanities flaws.

 

if anything ever happened to all the animals then we would be in a world of hurt very quickly. i would not treat a animal any worse than a person and a fetus would be at the very end of my respect list because it feels no pain in its early stage, is oblivious to what is happening around it, and it relies on the mother even after birth.

 

Shienvien: i agree with your statement on pain for person hood though that is only one factor i look at.

[philpot123]

Shienvien: i agree with your statement on pain for person hood though that is only one factor i look at.

There are people in the world who lack the ability to feel pain. So... = not a person? I don't think so.

[Faith_the_vampire_slayer]

There are people in the world who lack the ability to feel pain. So... = not a person? I don't think so.

I`m sort of on the fence. If it`s a pregnancy by rape, then I say that it`s okay to get rid of the fetus. To be forced to keep a baby from rape is just plain wrong.

[philpot123]

I`m sort of on the fence. If it`s a pregnancy by rape, then I say that it`s okay to get rid of the fetus. To be forced to keep a baby from rape is just plain wrong.

Well, right now I'm not arguing abortion as a whole, because I've worn that out in the past. I just disagree with the notion that it is not a person because it cannot feel pain, even IF that is true.

[lightbird]

I`m sort of on the fence. If it`s a pregnancy by rape, then I say that it`s okay to get rid of the fetus. To be forced to keep a baby from rape is just plain wrong.

But if the outcome is the same - a woman goes into an abortion clinic with a fetus and comes out without it - why nitpick on the exact reason for abortion?

 

And, surely, being able to feel pain isn't an argument of personhood, merely that of whether the fetus feels pain if it's being aborted during the time when it's generally deemed acceptable for elective abortion.

Edited January 19, 2012 by lightbird

[Kelkelen]

I`m sort of on the fence. If it`s a pregnancy by rape, then I say that it`s okay to get rid of the fetus. To be forced to keep a baby from rape is just plain wrong.

But if it's seen as a human life with human rights of its own, independent of the mother's (or at least, as independent from the mother's rights as an already-born child is; not a legally free adult until age 18, parent has certain rights, but its basic human rights are defended)... then it's unfair to decide that a baby lives or dies based on its parentage or the circumstances of its conception.

 

If you don't believe a fetus is a separate human life in the first place, that's different.

[Lila]

There are people in the world who lack the ability to feel pain. So... = not a person? I don't think so.

Yea but they're already alive. They have experiences, memories, ambitions, and relationships a fetus certainly couldn't have.

[Red Dragonette]

There are people in the world who lack the ability to feel pain. So... = not a person? I don't think so.

I said if a "Fetus", not "Someone", doesn't feel pain, then it's not a person. Read my sentence correctly. I didn't generalize about people not feeling pain, okay?

Edited January 20, 2012 by Red Dragonette

[philpot123]

Yea but they're already alive. They have experiences, memories, ambitions, and relationships a fetus certainly couldn't have.

 

The proper response to that would be... so? A fetus is alive. Does having memories, ambitions, and relationships define what a person is? Because there are people in the world without some of those. Have they ceased to be persons?

 

I said if a "Fetus", not "Someone", doesn't feel pain, then it's not a person. Read my sentence correctly. I didn't generalize about people not feeling pain, okay?

But what makes a fetus different from a person? The ability to feel pain is the only thing you listed, and some "people" can't feel pain. What else is so inherently different? I'm not generalizing, I'm using exactly what you said.

Edited January 20, 2012 by philpot123

[MellaBella]

But what makes a fetus different from a person? The ability to feel pain is the only thing you listed, and some "people" can't feel pain. What else is so inherently different? I'm not generalizing, I'm using exactly what you said.

I think someone said before that it's not that they can't feel pain necessarily, but that they can't process the feeling of pain themselves like a developed human would (like an adult or child). Not sure if it's the person you are quoting.

 

Like, a fetus wouldn't be able to feel pain, and ALSO wouldn't be able to think "Hey, this is hurting/destroying me" and then react. Because they can't, it is impossible for them to. A baby or an adult, on the other hand, can. They will try and get away from what is hurting them, they will scream, cry, and thrash around. And even if they have damaged nerve endings and cannot feel pain physically, if they see a person or object is damaging their body, they will know it is bad and try and stop it.

 

If their body is being damaged from the inside, the body is usually quick to react, so if the person can't feel pain on the inside either then they will still find out something is wrong eventually and try to get help. Even babies try and get help by trying to get someone's attention in any way possible. Normally by screaming or throwing objects, heheh.

 

Man, I am terrible at typing up what I think. I'm sorry. :c

[Lila]

The proper response to that would be... so? A fetus is alive. Does having memories, ambitions, and relationships define what a person is? Because there are people in the world without some of those. Have they ceased to be persons?

 

 

Actually, yes. So it is scientifically a human. So it may be classified as a developing person. But what truly separates us from animals? You are Christian, I believe? Certainly our intelligence, our experiences, emotions and questioning of more than what we can see is something animals fail to equate to. Essentially, a fetus is an animal until such things begin to appear. Yes there is potential for good in a baby, but there is also potential for bad.