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To repeat myself, I do not mean to offend any one, nor should you feel that I am jumping on your backs over and over as you say. Yes, I did read your arguments, no, that does not mean I have to agree with them. The only reason I post is to defend my opinions, which, in my view, it seems as though every one here is trying to attack. I know you may not realize this, but it has sort of come off this way.

If we had of attacked you, a moderator would have come in here and told us off.

 

Since that hasn't happened, and as I saw several mods lurking when discussion has taken place since you entered the thread, I therefore believe no one has attacked you.

 

Just because multiple people address your points does not mean we are attacking you. Just because we disagree with your points does not mean we're attacking you.

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1. Why do people who perform abortions and staunchly support them come around to being pro-life?

Reverse case also possible.

 

2. What about the children who survive abortions, but have physical and mental issues because of it?

All medical procedures have failure rates.

 

3.  In response to the argument of illegalizing abortions only worsening things, Speaking before the 93rd Congress of the US, Senator James Buckley stated: "Data from foreign countries having far longer experience with legalised abortion than we have had in the US, suggest that legalisation has no effect on the criminal abortion rate. In at least three countries, the criminal abortion rate has actually risen since legalisation. Legalised abortion moves the back alley abortionists into the front office where their trade can be practised without fear of criminal prosecution."

James Buckley is not a credible source. The CEO of Marlboro probably has some good pro tabacco anecdotes.

 

Dr Christopher Tietze, an abortion advocate, concedes: "Although one of the major goals of the liberalisation of abortion laws in Scandinavia was to reduce the incidence of illegal abortion, this was not accomplished. Rather as we know from a variety of sources, both criminal and total abortions increased."

Wow one dude again.

 

4. Just because something can become a tumor or be absorbed back into the body does not mean that it was never alive.

My poop is alive its full of bacteria.

 

Too easy and I have to go watch a movie.

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The term "pro-abortionist" is inflammatory and inaccurate because it implies that we're all cheerleaders for the procedure. We are NOT (or at least I'm certainly not) pro-abortion in that sense -- I don't believe that abortion is the best solution in all cases, nor do I treat it casually. It's a medical procedure and should be regarded as such IMO, which means that it entails a certain amount of risk.

 

What I (and many others) AM is pro-choice, meaning I support a woman's ability to choose her reproductive options -- giving birth and keeping the child, giving birth and putting the child up for adoption, or having an abortion. THAT is the heart of the pro-choice position, not "OMG GAIZ U SHOULD HAVE AN ABORTION!" dry.gif

Yes this exactly. I am catholic, I have children of my own, I would gladly have/adopt many many more. But I cant not see the logic in disallowing a procedure to save a women s life when she will die before the point of fetal viability when once the medical emergency is fixed that same women could go on to have healthy pregnancy's or to adopt. It makes no sense.

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I've actually studied up and learned that hospitals are getting to be granted with the power to deny a pregnant woman care if it risks a miscarriage or abortion. They could literally leave her to die and get away with it...How the hell is this any way pro-life?

 

I hope women know the hospital they're going to or they could literally be signing their death certificate..

Edited by GhostChilli

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I've actually studied up and learned that hospitals are getting to be granted with the power to deny a pregnant woman care if it risks a miscarriage or abortion. They could literally leave her to die and get away with it...How the hell is this any way pro-life?

 

I hope women know the hospital they're going to or they could literally be signing their death certificate..

That... The fact that hospitals can do that horrifies me... What on earth can be running through the minds of the people making decisions like that? ._.

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I feel like I'll have to travel to canada some day if I ever needed an abortion. They actually have a right that pretty much means that the person's priorities comes first. So they have no problem getting things like sterile, morning after pill, abortions. I'm sure they have their fair number of antis trying to reverse this but I don't think that's going to happen with that right of theirs.

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You always hear people say we have too many people on this earth anyways tongue.gif

 

But seriously, depending on the circumstances of your living habits, environment, etc., having a baby may not be the best thing to do.

Although you can put it up for adoption, there are a lot of babies to be adopted, and a lot of them go to foster homes, where they aren't always treated so nicely.

 

If something happened to you, where you were raped and became pregnant, that is a whole other story. For one thing, it isn't your fault, and you and that child would grow up being burdened by the truth.

 

I am not for, or against abortion totally, I think there are certain conditions where its acceptable, and certain times when it's not.

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You always hear people say we have too many people on this earth anyways tongue.gif

 

But seriously, depending on the circumstances of your living habits, environment, etc., having a baby may not be the best thing to do.

Although you can put it up for adoption, there are a lot of babies to be adopted, and a lot of them go to foster homes, where they aren't always treated so nicely.

 

If something happened to you, where you were raped and became pregnant, that is a whole other story. For one thing, it isn't your fault, and you and that child would grow up being burdened by the truth.

 

I am not for, or against abortion totally, I think there are certain conditions where its acceptable, and certain times when it's not.

What about a couple who both use protection and still get pregnant but are stable in money but just don't want to have a kid?

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What about a couple who both use protection and still get pregnant but are stable in money but just don't want to have a kid?

You bring up a very good point.

 

I think that is the percentage that is going to be judged either way.

 

It's not their fault that they are pregnant, so I think they should have the choice to have an abortion, but others would probably say that they are a stable couple and should have to raise that child.

 

However, you could also look at it this way; They made the decision to have intercourse, and if they didn't want to have a kid, maybe they shouldn't have done anything in the first place, until they are ready to commit to having a family.

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However, you could also look at it this way; They made the decision to have intercourse, and if they didn't want to have a kid, maybe they shouldn't have done anything in the first place, until they are ready to commit to having a family.

So married couples, who make up 1/4 of woman who have abortions, should abstain from having sex until they're ready to have children?

 

And what of woman who do not want children ever, but cannot be sterilised because they do not meet the requirements (being over 35 and having 2 children already) ?

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So married couples, who make up 1/4 of woman who have abortions, should abstain from having sex until they're ready to have children?

 

And what of woman who do not want children ever, but cannot be sterilised because they do not meet the requirements (being over 35 and having 2 children already) ?

Well you also have good points.

 

I don't think every person who doesn't want a child should have to abstain, however; if you aren't going to abstain, you should be using protection. As someone said before, what if they used protection but still got pregnant? Well, most of the time, when you are using protection and it doesn't work, it's not the protection's fault, its the person's fault, for not using it exactly how they should have. There is that 1% chance that even with perfect use, you could still get pregnant; But you can't base everything off of a 1% chance.

 

And for the women who don't want to have children, but cannot be sterilized; there is always the option of the male being sterilized.

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And for the women who don't want to have children, but cannot be sterilized; there is always the option of the male being sterilized.

But that doesn't stop a woman from getting pregnant through rape. Also, the male can easily lie to his partner about being sterilized. How could she know for sure?

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There is that 1% chance that even with perfect use, you could still get pregnant; But you can't base everything off of a 1% chance.

Lets assume that of the 7 billion people on earth, 4 billion are female. Of those 4 billion, 2 billion are sexually active and of childbearing age.

 

And lets again assume that they all have access to birth control, and about 1 billion all know how to use it safely, and do so.

 

That one percent becomes one MILLION woman. What happens then?

 

And for the women who don't want to have children, but cannot be sterilized; there is always the option of the male being sterilized.

 

True, but did you know there is still a chance of getting pregnant from a sterilised male, however remote? What happens then?

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And for the women who don't want to have children, but cannot be sterilized; there is always the option of the male being sterilized.

But what if the man refuses to do so? There are those who refuse to do it, as they feel it would make them less manly.

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But what if the man refuses to do so? There are those who refuse to do it, as they feel it would make them less manly.

I didn't think about that. I've heard from so men that they don't want to lose manhood from the procedure. So they'd rather feel manly and risk many pregnancies..

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I've actually studied up and learned that hospitals are getting to be granted with the power to deny a pregnant woman care if it risks a miscarriage or abortion. They could literally leave her to die and get away with it...How the hell is this any way pro-life?

I know nothing about this, but I'd fathom a guess that ideas like that are being tossed around because so many people try to sue physicians, drug companies, and practitioners for stupid reasons and usually succeed. I think situations like that would be more like... I don't know, an alcoholic pregnant woman asking for Tylenol despite the dangers being explained. She could have a miscarriage as a result and try to sue to drug company for damages, or something. I've seen more ridiculous cases get through, sadly.

 

Again, I don't know anything about it so this is just a guess. I'd like to think it doesn't apply to seriously ill women who need care and just happen to be pregnant.

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Again, I don't know anything about it so this is just a guess. I'd like to think it doesn't apply to seriously ill women who need care and just happen to be pregnant.

Oh no it applies no matter what the condition. She can die on their steps from refused treatment and they won't be held responsible.

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I've actually studied up and learned that hospitals are getting to be granted with the power to deny a pregnant woman care if it risks a miscarriage or abortion. They could literally leave her to die and get away with it...How the hell is this any way pro-life?

 

I hope women know the hospital they're going to or they could literally be signing their death certificate..

Source please, and which countries?

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pro-choice.

we all know that most unwanted children end up as criminal minded people, so why force mothers to have a child they don't want.

 

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pro-choice.

we all know that most unwanted children end up as criminal minded people, so why force mothers to have a child they don't want.

Oh, do we all know that? Please provide a source, though I feel a bit stupid asking since we all know that anyway.

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pro-choice.

we all know that most unwanted children end up as criminal minded people, so why force mothers to have a child they don't want.

It's not that they end up criminal minded, it's that a lot end up rather depressed and some commit suicide at a surprisingly young age. This part infuriates me the most because the majority of pro-lifers don't see this as real and if it's shown to them, they just blame the child and say they're just being overdramatic.

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Again, I don't know anything about it so this is just a guess. I'd like to think it doesn't apply to seriously ill women who need care and just happen to be pregnant.

Unfortunately, that's exactly who this is intended to apply to. That, and women who are seriously ill as a result of pregnancy.

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Unfortunately, that's exactly who this is intended to apply to. That, and women who are seriously ill as a result of pregnancy.

In the linked vid, the supporter of the law has the nerve to say that it's not extreme and doesn't take any rights away.

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Oh, do we all know that? Please provide a source, though I feel a bit stupid asking since we all know that anyway.

well, i have to thank you for being considerate and pointing out a flaw in my post, but the making fun of it was unneeded, and could be considered trolling.

you asked for a source so, here you go.

Romania, under Nicolae Ceausescu,

in 1996 he made abortion illegal, and all that resulted from it was orphans, dead mothers, and illegal doctors.

 

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