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Perhaps in that instance. But then you have the woman who was RECOMMENDED an abortion by several different doctors, when there turned out to be nothing wrong whatsoever. If such a woman didn't continue to get opinions, would that be listed as an abortion for "medical reasons"? In that instance, at least, there was no viable reason for abortion and yet it was heartily recommended by more than one doctor. If it happens once, it could happen more. To me it just shows, once again, how unreliable statistics are for determining fact, because no matter how hard they try, the actual number could be vastly more or vastly less than reported.

Just because nothing bad happened doesn't mean that getting an abortion wasnt overall the best option at the time for medical reasons. People win the lottery sometimes doesn't make it not a losing game.

 

You criticise statistics by using even worse statistics which is hilarious.

Edited by Kai

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Those studies relied on self-reporting, so it would depend on what the woman herself acknowledged her primary and secondary (tertiary etc.) reasons were for obtaining the abortion. 

 

Your second, possibly third-hand examples do not prove that every one (or even a large percentage) of those four percent of women claiming medical reasons for their abortion are lying or were lied to.  There are clearly medical conditions and medications that will cause harm to either the fetus or the woman carrying it.  The fact that some people are willing to play the odds and got lucky does not invalidate the existence of birth defects, preexisting conditions or other dangers to either mother or fetus.  A handful of personal anecdotes mean very little without some kind of proof.  What was the doctors diagnosis in the case of the woman who had an abortion recommended to her multiple times?  As Kestra said, doctors don't just do that out of the blue, they make these recommendations for a reason.

 

To frame it in another way, 96% of women seeking abortion did not list their own health as their primary reason for seeking an abortion, and 88% of them did not list it as a reason at all.  Finances and lifestyle change were the most common reasons given.

I believe what was said was that she was too old, and they predicted complications for her and the child if she carried through with it. The one doctor who told her everything was fine had no idea what they were talking about, so clearly there was some level of error there.

 

I'm not saying this NECESSARILY happens often, or that ALL "medical" listings AREN'T legitimate. I've just never trusted statistics, and this gives me one more reason. We have no way of knowing what those "medical" reasons were, if there were any, WHO told the woman it was "medically necessary," etc etc. So basing opinions on statistics is shaky at best.

 

*edit* I should say basing them ONLY on statistics. I'm aware that you all have more reasons for being pro-choice than statistics.

 

You criticise statistics by using even worse statistics which is hilarious.

 

I'm sorry, can you please show me where I said my personal knowledge had any factual, definitive weight at all? For ME though, hearing repeated stories of similar circumstances that COULD have resulted in a "medical" reason for abortion where there wasn't one makes me QUESTION how MANY of them are actually necessary. No need to infer more from my posts than I'm saying.

Edited by philpot123

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You criticise statistics by using even worse statistics which is hilarious.

 

I don't think it meant to criticise. Just possibilities in cases that have occured.

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Looks like some rather graphic anti-abortion ads are going to be aired during the Super Bowl in some TV markets. Thoughts?

 

Link.

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I'm sorry, can you please show me where I said my personal knowledge had any factual, definitive weight at all? For ME though, hearing repeated stories of similar circumstances that COULD have resulted in a "medical" reason for abortion where there wasn't one makes me QUESTION how MANY of them are actually necessary. No need to infer more from my posts than I'm saying.

Nevertheless you're trying to cast doubt on statistics using anecdotes which is at best kind of funny.

 

But anyway, how many are necessary? Depends on your idea of necessary. There's no such thing as absolutely necessary, plenty of women have died in childbirth knowing the risks. So necessary is kind of a bait word. Especially if you use after-the-fact anecdotes, which any poker player knows is a bad idea. Perhaps a better question, would it have been reasonable?

Edited by Kai

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Looks like some rather graphic anti-abortion ads are going to be aired during the Super Bowl in some TV markets. Thoughts?

 

Link.

Disgusting, shock value, purely for emotional appeal to an audience that will consist of small children, unsuspecting people with uncomfortable past memories, and possibly disturbed individuals who definitely do NOT need to be sucker punched with that kind of advertising. Despite being pro-life, that disgusts me because of the impact it could have on people who genuinely don't want to see that sort of thing but will unsuspectingly be subjected to it, even if just for a brief instant before getting the chance to change the channel. Is it really going to change anyone's mind??

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Looks like some rather graphic anti-abortion ads are going to be aired during the Super Bowl in some TV markets. Thoughts?

 

Link.

I hope this gets a big "Shame on you" after it's showed. Families don't need to see something like that on such an occassion. I don't know how it's even allowed to show.

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Looks like some rather graphic anti-abortion ads are going to be aired during the Super Bowl in some TV markets. Thoughts?

 

Link.

This just sucks, who really needs to see this on prime time tv? What about women who have lost pregnancy's they WANTED to miscarriage . What about the couple trying for years to have a baby. Then well CHILDREN? Can anyone tell where exactly this is being shown city wise? Because bloody parts is not something I exactly want my 5 year old son seeing when he wants to watch the game with his daddy.

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This just sucks, who really needs to see this on prime time tv? What about women who have lost pregnancy's they WANTED to miscarriage . What about the couple trying for years to have a baby. Then well CHILDREN? Can anyone tell where exactly this is being shown city wise? Because bloody parts is not something I exactly want my 5 year old son seeing when he wants to watch the game with his daddy.

Sounds like he hasn't bought the spots yet, so I'll assume the story is developing. I'll want to know so I can be prepared with that handy previous channel button, because I'll be watching with my small cousins.

 

Honestly, what on EARTH is the point?

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Oh my god. I just actually went to his page. He is currently trying to get donations to get the adds to run. You can go and watch each one of the adds. There are clearly aborted parts and chunks. Its gruesome and bloody. Then there are also pictures that I can tell you right now are miscarried babies, Considering I have a medical background and have had a later miscarriage I can tell you exactly what some of those are.

 

 

Who wants to run something like this that small children could see....ever??

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The price that it would cost to run an ad during the super bowl could help a lot of women who have chosen not to abort but are struggling with caring for their baby. I guess that's my problem with the pro-life stance. They are so focused on 'life' instead of a 'good life'.

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Also, he's showing fetuses that are too well developed and big to be considered today's abortion. It's done too early for it to resemble a baby. Typical pro-birth propaganda and the underlings are eating it up all too easily.

Edited by GhostChilli

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The baby cradled in the hand picture is getting to me the most. Its most obviously not a aborted baby, it looks exactly like a baby that stopped growing and the mother continued gestating for a few weeks before they knew something went wrong. That picture was probably taken so the distraught mother had at least one picture of their precious child. My younger cousin was born premature and not a heck of a lot bigger then that. The baby in the basin also looks to be whole and near full term. A full term abortion would not look like that at all. Again more then likely someones wanted child that was lost.

 

 

I couldn't make it threw the beginning of the movie UP without crying and having to walk out of the theater. If on the crazy chance these adds do run then I am just not watching the super bowl. I don't need to relive the most terrible moments of my life.

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it really sickens me how they would do such a thing. though would strike false fear for things that probably are not even from abortions of now a day in america. if i ever adopted i would not approve of this type of thing till the child is old enough to understand and fallow logic and not something that has a chance of being false and so it doesn't have the censorkip.gif traumatized in it.

http://www.greeleygazette.com/press/?p=12823 and i'm surpized that those that commented did not have any logic of there own, goes to show you people believe everything they see when its not the seeing that is important its the understanding.

 

(though i agree with a few peep that spoke out 'Randall Terry should be ashamed of himself.' would be a good example for me)

Edited by xhunter

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it really sickens me how they would do such a thing. though would strike false fear for things that probably are not even from abortions of now a day in america. if i ever adopted i would not approve of this type of thing till the child is old enough to understand and fallow logic and not something that has a chance of being false and so it doesn't have the censorkip.gif traumatized in it.

http://www.greeleygazette.com/press/?p=12823 and i'm surpized that those that commented did not have any logic of there own, goes to show you people believe everything they see when its not the seeing that is important its the understanding.

 

(though i agree with a few peep that spoke out 'Randall Terry should be ashamed of himself.' would be a good example for me)

Well there are a couple a people that realize that that is nothing what abortion actually is.

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Well there are a couple a people that realize that that is nothing what abortion actually is.

i know its just the few that seem like they know nothing about it that bugs me. i'm happy there are a few that have sense in there head.

 

though it makes me wander, people will believe anything they see on the internet. yes the internet is a good source of information though you have to go look for things that support it. sites that do the actual research are reliable though second hand sites by people that did not do the research and is questionable to me.

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i know its just the few that seem like they know nothing about it that bugs me. i'm happy there are a few that have sense in there head.

 

though it makes me wander, people will believe anything they see on the internet. yes the internet is a good source of information though you have to go look for things that support it. sites that do the actual research are reliable though second hand sites by people that did not do the research and is questionable to me.

That is just ignorance for you. They believe only what they want to believe. And just today, I had a "pro-lifer" tell me that war is not murder, and apparently abortion is more important to protest against right now..

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That is just ignorance for you. They believe only what they want to believe. And just today, I had a "pro-lifer" tell me that war is not murder, and apparently abortion is more important to protest against right now..

Well that's the concept of "there's a difference between killing and murder." In some instances it's necessary to take a life, but does that mean it's murder? *shrug*

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Well that's the concept of "there's a difference between killing and murder." In some instances it's necessary to take a life, but does that mean it's murder? *shrug*

Like it's necessary to remove a zegote. And there's still a murder argument. A lot of war is murder because it involves slaughtering familes in some cases

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Like it's necessary to remove a zegote. And there's still a murder argument. A lot of war is murder because it involves slaughtering familes in some cases

Obviously necessary (in both war and abortion) depends on perspective. And true, atrocities occur in war. But the whole can't be judged by the part. Parents as a concept/institution aren't BAD just because there are bad parents in the world.

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Looks like some rather graphic anti-abortion ads are going to be aired during the Super Bowl in some TV markets. Thoughts?

 

Link.

Glad I'll be watching the Puppy Bowl.

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This article has a link at the bottom that lists the 40 cities where Terry is trying to place his ads, in case anyone was interested in watching the Super Bowl at a different network.

 

http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/7491718599.html

That made me shiver. So glad it's not being shown anywhere neeeear me.

 

Wonder if I can find the ads on youtube.

 

Going to check out The Abortion Gang, too.

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Obviously necessary (in both war and abortion) depends on perspective. And true, atrocities occur in war. But the whole can't be judged by the part. Parents as a concept/institution aren't BAD just because there are bad parents in the world.

And abortion isn't BAD because there's some unnecessary abortoins.

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