Abortion

[Cecona]

It certainly would be nice if the U.S. actually allowed contraceptives to be more readily available.As far as I know you can get condoms and maybe morning after pills over the counter, but you need a prescription to be on birth control. Meaning you need to see a doctor and they get to decide whether or not you can have birth control. The U.S. is over run with ancient politicians and businessmen that refuse to step down, and they force their own religious and moral beliefs on others by creating unconstitutional laws. And one of those beliefs is: Sex is bad! No sex outside of marriage! No sex unless you want a baby! Women belong in the kitchen! Women should only be seen never heard! Women are less human than an undeveloped mass that is just as likely to die and calcify as it is to become a fully developed baby!

 

And before anyone jumps on me I am specifically talking about well before the fetus becomes a baby. I'm talking about when it's still so small you can barely see it, when it has yet to grow nerves and feel anything, and before it's brain is developed enough to have a simple thought.

 

It really is a problem when schools still insist on teaching abstinence as a form of sex ed and think it will actually work. Have they not figured out that if you tell a teen to not do something they of course will do it. We have games and shows and movies aimed at teens and young adults that contain sexual or sexualized content and it all seems cool and fun to them, but then the grown ups turn around and say "No you can't have sex no matter how much fun they make it look"

 

So yea, that is really the biggest issue in my opinion, that greedy, overly religious people in power force their beliefs on us as laws. Also why we probably won't have free healthcare here for a long time. Free healthcare for those that need it means less money for the people that already have too much to begin with- and cod forbid they lose even a cent of their money flow. America is a very, very money oriented Country unfortunately. Normal people aren't being paid enough, the rich are getting paid too much, prices on everything is going up, and if you don't have enough... people are so out of luck that some can get so desperate and kill themselves simply because they aren't making money like they used to...

 

Sorry that might have gone a little off topic, I just get upset when it's so easy and simple for other countries to be able to access what they need, and we over here are still fighting for civil and human rights that should be ours in the first place.

 

Also I can't believe people actually think that a woman would actually use abortion as a method of contraceptive. That's just insane seeing how incredibly difficult it can be to even get one. And of course that's if she finds an actual clinic and doesn't end up at one of the fake ones that would guilt her and keep wasting her time until it's too late. Also pregnancy should NEVER be used as a kind of punishment. That's just sick! Because not only is the life of that woman going to be ruined forever, but that child wouldn't even be able to get a good start in life and most likely would grow up unloved and unwanted.

 

I really hate how pro-birthers never really take into account what happens after the baby is born. Once abortion is out the window they don't seem to care anymore. They don't seem to understand what kind of life they are forcing these children to have. If the mother couldn't afford to get an abortion or travel to where she could how do pro-brithers expect that mother to have the money to properly raise that child? An unwanted child, or a child of rape has low chances of having a good childhood, a child put into the foster care system is more likely to end up growing out of it than actually being adopted into a stable and loving home. Those that actually do get a good life are usually the ones that go through private adoption. And private adoptions are not as easy as Juno made it seem. It is so much harder and more time consuming than picking a random ad in the newspaper.

 

Not to mention they don't even take into account the fact resources are running low and every new human born is just another drain on something extremely precious to the entire world. And with life expectancy increasing we have more people being born than we do people dying.

 

I just... ugh pro-birthers are just so selfish! If a woman does not want to be pregnant no one should be allowed to tell her otherwise. It's her body to do with as she wants, and her life to enjoy. No one has any right to ruin her life.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Cecona

[whitebaron]

the pill and other medications that prevent babies...

they should stay with doctors. it's medications, after all.

 

i agree about them being readily available, but without a doctor, its like taking any other drug - without the proper monitoring and prescription, you can end up doing more harm than anything else.

 

out of 15 different hormonal products, my wifes gynecologist said that only 2 would be suitable for her due to health concerns. (acne and very dry skin at age 33) Go figure what it would mean if she just bought it over the counter.

[lightbird]

I can also agree on the thought that the pill should be a prescription medication* - there are many varieties to them, and not every brand will suit every woman - I've heard first-person accounts on where switching the pill brand has triggered acne, weight gain and mood swings, when the same woman was dealing fine with a different brand.

But yes, they should be discussed by the doctor without any judgment of morality.

 

 

Speaking of which, I live in a country where it's mainly the women who are suspicious about taking the pill on kneejerky, uninformed "yadayada, it's not natural, it's gonna mess me up" grounds.

 

*And I'm pretty sure it is prescription-only in the EU?

Edited October 23, 2013 by lightbird

[Obscure_Trash]

the pill and other medications that prevent babies...

they should stay with doctors. it's medications, after all.

 

i agree about them being readily available, but without a doctor, its like taking any other drug - without the proper monitoring and prescription, you can end up doing more harm than anything else.

 

out of 15 different hormonal products, my wifes gynecologist said that only 2 would be suitable for her due to health concerns. (acne and very dry skin at age 33) Go figure what it would mean if she just bought it over the counter.

Then why have pharmacies at all? Ibuprofen and aspirin and claritin and zyrtec and cough syrup are all medications and we can pick them right up off the shelves. It's one thing if you have a medical worry. It's a whole 'nother if you don't and the pills that really are okay to take without prescription are offered on the shelf. Really, making the pill prescription only is more about what cismen think women should be doing with their bodies than about worries that the pill will adversely affect those taking it.

 

For heaven's sake, back when I was on the pill I tried to get more than one month's prescrip at a time because I was going to field camp and would have unstable access (and no access during the last part) to pharmacies. They made me pay full price for an extra month and I absolutely wasn't allowed any more than that. And really, what was I going to do with those extra months? Give them out to twelve year olds while encouraging them to "do the dirty deed"? /eye roll

Edited October 23, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Cecona]

Exactly, Sock, that is the real reason why it's insisted that birth control be prescription only. They think if it was as readily available then women would start buying it just so they can have all the sex they want and not worry about getting pregnant. People against it make claims it will increase promiscuity and the like.

 

The pharmacist should be educated enough to know about the different types of birth control and recommend a certain brand if women worry about adverse effects. And if you already know you have problems that might interfere you should see a doctor just to make sure. But more often than not women don't have such severe side effects and stick to one brand- in fact the pharmacist should warn them when they buy it that switching brands suddenly is bad. Making it prescription only just because of a small percentage that might have adverse effects isn't justifiable. What if we did that to every medicine that might cause harm? Then everything would be prescription only because every medicine has side effects and a small chance to do harm. Even Tylenol.

[catstaff]

I can also agree on the thought that the pill should be a prescription medication* - there are many varieties to them, and not every brand will suit every woman - I've heard first-person accounts on where switching the pill brand has triggered acne, weight gain and mood swings, when the same woman was dealing fine with a different brand.

But yes, they should be discussed by the doctor without any judgment of morality.

 

 

Speaking of which, I live in a country where it's mainly the women who are suspicious about taking the pill on kneejerky, uninformed "yadayada, it's not natural, it's gonna mess me up" grounds.

 

*And I'm pretty sure it is prescription-only in the EU?

The doctors need to listen harder to the women taking the medication, though.

 

Because too many doctors have a god-complex, in which they assume that because they have the medical degree, they know their patients' bodies better than the patients do. Oh, not all of them, but enough to be problematic, IMHO.

 

For example, my most recent primary-care physician spent three months telling me that if I just lost some weight, any menstrual issues I was having would clear right up... this despite me telling him that I was in so much pain that it hurt to stand upright, coupled with chronic yeast infections when I'd never had one before in my life, nor had I ever suffered more than the most mild of menstrual cramps before and anyway, this pain was absolutely different from cramps. It wasn't until I finally got to see a gynecologist (the three-month delay because I'm uninsured and didn't have the money to go anywhere but the affordable care clinic, and that only had GYN appointments available two days a week) that my primary-care physician started taking me seriously... and that only because the GYN did an ultrasound that revealed pockets of fluid in my abdomen.

 

Another example, more pertinent to this discussion, a different GYN insisted on switching brands of birth control pills for me, despite my objections, because the new brand cost less. More to the point, I was not counseled to use backup birth control for the first couple of months, and was in fact told there would be no problem as long as I took it regularly... and yes, despite taking the new one properly, the difference in dosage or whatever was enough to screw up my body and I ended up pregnant. All because a doctor at an affordable care clinic refused to renew my old prescription because it cost more, even though I specifically requested to stick with it.

[TikindiDragon]

It's prescription only in the UK, Sock. But then it's also totally free (as is the GP visit to get said prescription) so...

[lightbird]

It's prescription only in the UK, Sock. But then it's also totally free (as is the GP visit to get said prescription) so...

In fact, it's prescription only in most of Europe, including the highly emancipated Scandinavian countries. So it's likely not just about how they want to limit women's freedom to have sex.

 

 

However, emergency contraception is over-the-counter, at least in my country.

Edited October 23, 2013 by lightbird

[whitebaron]

A pharmacist is primarily a salesman that knows how to produce drugs.in no way are they qualified to judge the intricacies of their usage.

 

That aside. Tylenol/paracetamol is dangerous, mostly because it is sold over the counter.

It has a small margin from healthy to overdose, and it severely strains your liver.

[Obscure_Trash]

The doctors need to listen harder to the women taking the medication, though.

 

Because too many doctors have a god-complex, in which they assume that because they have the medical degree, they know their patients' bodies better than the patients do. Oh, not all of them, but enough to be problematic, IMHO.

 

For example, my most recent primary-care physician spent three months telling me that if I just lost some weight, any menstrual issues I was having would clear right up... this despite me telling him that I was in so much pain that it hurt to stand upright, coupled with chronic yeast infections when I'd never had one before in my life, nor had I ever suffered more than the most mild of menstrual cramps before and anyway, this pain was absolutely different from cramps. It wasn't until I finally got to see a gynecologist (the three-month delay because I'm uninsured and didn't have the money to go anywhere but the affordable care clinic, and that only had GYN appointments available two days a week) that my primary-care physician started taking me seriously... and that only because the GYN did an ultrasound that revealed pockets of fluid in my abdomen.

 

Another example, more pertinent to this discussion, a different GYN insisted on switching brands of birth control pills for me, despite my objections, because the new brand cost less. More to the point, I was not counseled to use backup birth control for the first couple of months, and was in fact told there would be no problem as long as I took it regularly... and yes, despite taking the new one properly, the difference in dosage or whatever was enough to screw up my body and I ended up pregnant. All because a doctor at an affordable care clinic refused to renew my old prescription because it cost more, even though I specifically requested to stick with it.

Not as painful as yours, but yes, definitely.

 

I went in to go on the pill specifically to see if it would help with my acne. The doctor kept asking me questions derailing me away from this. I know that some were standard questions, but the doctor did not listen to what I wanted to say at all. Just before this last semester started, I went back to the doctor. It had been over a year, and I saw NO improvement. Our health care place can never keep one doctor for very long, so I ended up seeing a different doctor. When I told them what I was there for, the nurse just looked up at me in shock and asked me who had prescribed that pill for me. Turns out the pill I was prescribed has NEVER been known to affect acne.

 

I'm still so livid over that.

 

That aside. Tylenol/paracetamol is dangerous, mostly because it is sold over the counter.

It has a small margin from healthy to overdose, and it severely strains your liver.

 

And yet we still allow people to make that choice for themselves. I mean, in the US, sudafed is only as restricted as it is (you're limited to a certain amount in a certain timeframe, have to show your ID, and sign a register before you get the actual medication) because people steal it to cook meth.

 

And I know that we don't always allow the best things to happen (alcohol can be much more damaging to your system - as well as it makes a lot of social situations suck [ie rapists who get drunk first in order to have an excuse] - but is legal while marijuana hasn't been shown to have that same damage potential yet is illegal), but it makes no sense to allow some possibly damaging medicines to be over the counter and not others. At least have some consistency. =\

 

It's prescription only in the UK, Sock.

 

Tbh, this doesn't really change anything of what I was saying. Interesting to know, though. :3

 

But then it's also totally free (as is the GP visit to get said prescription) so...

 

Yeah, that makes a big difference. Contraception can really put a dent in people's wallet over here. Some of my friends pay ~$100/mo I believe. I was lucky that mine was only $25/mo and under our old insurance was only $5 for me and under the new insurance, I didn't have to pay anything.

 

~

 

Super relevant: http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2013/05/...er-the-counter/

It's higher income countries that still require people to get a prescription for bc.

The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists suggest selling bc over the counter.

[prairiecrow]

A pharmacist is primarily a salesman that knows how to produce drugs.in no way are they qualified to judge the intricacies of their usage.

Actually... at least in Canada, in my neck of the woods, pharmacists are the go-to source for medication usage and interactions data, because that's how they're trained. I have never before heard any claim like the one you just made.

[Cecona]

I would have to agree with Prairiecrow, maybe the pharmacists over in the UK are like that but over here in order to be a pharmacist you need to take special training and have knowledge of all sorts of different medications for when people have questions. I'm pretty sure you actually have to go to school for it.

 

 

 

 

 

The only reason my birth control is cheap is because it's a generic brand. I have an actual medical condition that is treated with birth control, and it really would be easier for me to get it without prescription. I cannot stand going to the gyno, I hate it soooo much! I always feel super uncomfortable even with a female doctor and just... having to be touched down there and stuff it makes me want to just bolt from the room. I would do almost anything to not have to go back there.

[BlitzDrake]

That aside. Tylenol/paracetamol is dangerous, mostly because it is sold over the counter.

It has a small margin from healthy to overdose, and it severely strains your liver.

 

 

So please stop ridiculing people for their emotional attachment,

 

@infinis: I have a lot of problems with your wordings. Its not pro choice, its pro-abort.

three things before I go off with something else.

Yeah well a lot of things can be abused. There was a news article a while back about a woman drinking Listerine for the alcohol. A guy huffing aerosol. The list goes on. There will always be things that SOME not ALL people abuse. Is it FAIR or NECESSARY to BAN or make something harder to get just because a couple people abuse it?

 

You can't have an emotional attachment to something if you hate it in the first place, don't want it, etc. If you have an emotional attachment to the fetus, ok, your choice. We respect peoples choice and not shove reasons to why they are wrong down others throats.

 

Well I have a lot of problems with the "pro-forced birth" side (beings your calling people pro-abort) Why is it so necessary to incriminate women for something and punish them with a child they don't want. Chuck them into the adoption sys is a terrible idea. Every child should be wanted, not spawned just because.

 

If anything, I'm starting to think this is more of a trolling than anything at this point. Just saying.

Edited October 23, 2013 by BlightWyvern

[eritated]

If anything, I'm starting to think this is more of a trolling than anything at this point. Just saying.

Oh it's not trolling, it's just how whitebaron is in this kind of situation.

 

~

 

ANYWAYS, since you guys are talking about the pill, I've a question. Recently I asked my mother if I could go on the pill. Not to prevent pregnancy (I'm only 15 ), but for a medical reason. I have chronic headaches and chest pain every day, so I really don't need the cramps and such caused by menstruation, and anything that lesses the pain will be lovely. She just laughed in my face, told me I'm ridiculous and to suck it up.

 

In the US, is it possible for me to start taking something like that without parental permission?

 

Sorry if this is off topic at all. Feel free to yell at me or whatever

Edited October 23, 2013 by Erica8798

[brairtrainer]

Oh it's not trolling, it's just how whitebaron is in this kind of situation.

 

~

 

ANYWAYS, since you guys are talking about the pill, I've a question. Recently I asked my mother if I could go on the pill. Not to prevent pregnancy (I'm only 15 ), but for a medical reason. I have chronic headaches and chest pain every day, so I really don't need the cramps and such caused by menstruation, and anything that lesses the pain will be lovely. She just laughed in my face, told me I'm ridiculous and to suck it up.

 

In the US, is it possible for me to start taking something like that without parental permission?

 

Sorry if this is off topic at all. Feel free to yell at me or whatever

Eri it is legal, but I believe in your situation you'd have to first see a OBGYN unless your doctor has the ability to proscribe some to you. The doctor does not need to tell your mom why, but he could say with your medical issues it would probably benefit you to see someone before you are 21, especially if you are taking other medications as BC can interfere/interact with them in unintended ways.

 

So as long as you have a referal then yes, if your parents won't take you though I'd check with another family member, or maybe a bus system? (I don't know if you live in a city or not but there should be a way some how to look into getting BC.)

 

Just make sure you have an insurence card on you.

 

ETA: While I agree that BC should be accessable to all I disagree with it going over the counter, if only because I know of the dangers that can arise from taking the wrong kind of pill, or the pill at all for that matter. Which reminds me I need to schedule some time with an OBGYN and start trying to get an implant, if it works with me it might help my sister get her extra medication.

Edited October 23, 2013 by brairtrainer

[Infinis]

An actual, qualified pharmacist is FAR from a glorified salesman who knows some chemistry. http://pharmacyschool.usc.edu/programs/pha...n/requirements/

 

I agree that BC should be widely available and low cost (or free) but having it over the counter introduces more risk of OD than is necessary. Some people don't know how it will affect them, as some people can't take certain kinds of BC because of genetics, current medical issues, etc.

 

The currently over the counter drugs are there, I'd imagine, because they affect most people who take them the same way. Birth control is more specialized/focused in what it does than, say, paracetamol.

[Cecona]

Well if I can find a way to get a bc prescription without having to be poked at down there I'm all for it.

[Obscure_Trash]

ANYWAYS, since you guys are talking about the pill, I've a question. Recently I asked my mother if I could go on the pill. Not to prevent pregnancy (I'm only 15 ), but for a medical reason. I have chronic headaches and chest pain every day, so I really don't need the cramps and such caused by menstruation, and anything that lesses the pain will be lovely. She just laughed in my face, told me I'm ridiculous and to suck it up.

 

In the US, is it possible for me to start taking something like that without parental permission?

 

Sorry if this is off topic at all. Feel free to yell at me or whatever

School and now this, too? I'm so sorry your mom seems to be actively working again you. D: As soon as you can get out, I hope you do. <3

 

Well, you would have to work out:

-getting an apt with your doctor to discuss this

-setting up and picking up your prescription

If you could get the appointment, you'd still be stuck with how to pick up the pills, unfortunately. =(

 

However, there are things besides bc that can help with cramps. I have awful cramps. We mentioned this to my doc back around when I had just started and she prescribed me something just for the cramps. It wasn't birth control. It was just like extra strength anti-cramp awesomeness. I started taking them a few days before I would start and it worked wonders. Sooo nice. I don't always get cramps these days, but I should ask for that again if I ever go back to the doctor...

 

I can't find the bottle right now (I'm still mostly packed up from moving and field camp since I'm leaving after this semester anyway), so I'm not sure what it was called, but next time you see your doctor, tell them about your cramping pain and ask if there's anything they can prescribe just for that. They should hopefully have some options for you that your mom can also agree to, since it doesn't have to be birth control you take.

[HeatherMarie]

I think it's funny when people who don't live in the US try to us "facts" about the US to argue their point.

 

I live in Arizona. In the US. I have been on different types of prescription medications since I was 14. I am now 26. (Should mention I lived in California a few of those years) Within that timeframe, the VAST majority of the time a doctor would prescribe a medication and look tell me if it would interfere with my other medications. .... That's it. In fact, there were three different DOCTORS I went to where I asked questions about what was being prescribed, and I was ACTUALLY TOLD that the pharmacist would be better informed.

 

And they are. There are laws, there are schools and degrees and RULES and a bajillion things that PHARMACISTS *must* know, or know how to find out, in order to become a pharmacist. I've talked to *many* different ones over the years, and with the exception of one who didn't speak English well, they ALL were very helpful about giving me detailed information about my medication, side effects to watch out for, any meds it might interfere with (including over-the-counter), etc etc etc.

 

So please don't put down pharmacists and act like doctors-rule-all, when *experience* says otherwise.

 

 

Also, for those still talking about contraception/laziness, you must have skipped over my post about how HARD it can be for younger adults to GET contraception, and my whole rant about how sex-ed is SO LACKING that you CANNOT BLAME THE WOMAN for getting pregnant when they were NEVER TAUGHT the proper way to use contraception, that it's even necessary, etc etc. So please, PLEASE stop with the whole "lazy" blame!

[eritated]

Also, for those still talking about contraception/laziness, you must have skipped over my post about how HARD it can be for younger adults to GET contraception, and my whole rant about how sex-ed is SO LACKING that you CANNOT BLAME THE WOMAN for getting pregnant when they were NEVER TAUGHT the proper way to use contraception, that it's even necessary, etc etc. So please, PLEASE stop with the whole "lazy" blame!

I really wish my school would give us better sex-ed. All they did is talk about abstinence. They covered a small amount on STDs, but that's *it*. They never even MENTIONED contraception to us... I said something to the teacher once about how teaching abstinence is ridiculous, and she said she agrees, but she's being forced to teach it D:

 

@Sock: I hope so, too.. Only 3 more years.. <__<

I'll certainly ask my doctor about the anti-cramp stuff. Just saw him yesterday, but will probably be back there within the next two weeks. Thanks! c:

Edited October 24, 2013 by Erica8798

[prpldrgnfr]

I don't know how good my daughter's school's sex-ed is going to be as she hasn't had it yet (I think she gets it next year), but she already knows that sex can cause babies, wants to use the pill (just like mommy) when she's old enough, and has asked me to show her how to put on a condom, which I plan on doing.

[brairtrainer]

I don't know how good my daughter's school's sex-ed is going to be as she hasn't had it yet (I think she gets it next year), but she already knows that sex can cause babies, wants to use the pill (just like mommy) when she's old enough, and has asked me to show her how to put on a condom, which I plan on doing.

Let me just say I'm jealous of your daughter right now, my mom is mostly squimish about sex and says the condom doesn't do anything really >.> thank god for the internet

[prpldrgnfr]

Let me just say I'm jealous of your daughter right now, my mom is mostly squimish about sex and says the condom doesn't do anything really >.> thank god for the internet

I figure knowledge is power and I do feel a bit weird talking to her about it, but safe is definitely better then sorry in this case.

[Pixxelation]

I really wish my school would give us better sex-ed. All they did is talk about abstinence. They covered a small amount on STDs, but that's *it*. They never even MENTIONED contraception to us... I said something to the teacher once about how teaching abstinence is ridiculous, and she said she agrees, but she's being forced to teach it D:

 

@Sock: I hope so, too.. Only 3 more years.. <__<

I'll certainly ask my doctor about the anti-cramp stuff. Just saw him yesterday, but will probably be back there within the next two weeks. Thanks! c:

Same here. And the definition for uterus was something that included the term, "unborn baby," rather than fetus/embryo/zygote, which beyond pissed me off. Honestly, the curriculum needs to be updated. It is outdated.

 

Also, I love how they talk about abstinence, but never actually talk about WHAT sex is. My cousin knows someone who's in high school and still thinks babies come from pills, and that sex is very different.

[BlitzDrake]

In short, this is what my sex-ed class taught:

Abstinence

STD's, showed us multiple pictures of various kinds. Told us STD's, all of them, couldn't be cured.

The guy would have to get a job and pay child support

The girl couldn't put it up for adoption

Birth control DOESN'T prevent pregnancies.

She CAN'T get an abortion (that's all they said, they left it just like that)

 

 

Not ONCE did they tell us how sex worked, what NOT to do, what precautions to take, etc. Mainly what I seen was scare tactics.