Abortion

[Mondat]

@SockPuppet Strangler

Saying that people shouldn't have sex for your own personal reasons is, IMO, sex shaming, yes. As you said, people come from a variety of situations, and we have to respect that. Unless you were just, like, wishing or something? o.o

I said I am pro-choice and that I, because of my responsibility for my decisions & my life, I do anything to not get pregnant in first place and if other people don't want to get pregnant they should do that as well or have no sex if they don't want to have a baby.

I never said that having sex is unhealthy, not normal or even bad - that would be sex shaming in my opinion.

 

 

@Marie19R

Actually, as read in some random National Geographic article a couple years ago, there are still plenty of tribes/people out there who *honestly believe*, usually in a religious/spiritual way, that sex is not needed at all in order to get pregnant, and sex itself does not cause pregnancy at all. And calling them "thick" because they don't know the facts is an insult.

Well, then it was an insult according to you - I stand by what I wrote and won't edit it. And I call these people being ignorant to the scientific truth from the modern world, too.

You, like whitebaron and some others, need to understand that just because something is true where *you* live, doesn't mean it's true EVERYWHERE.

I have nothing to do with whitebaron etc. and I would like you to show me where I stated that I think it's everywhere the same where I live because you seem to think to have to lecture me. As a fact, I lived 23 years in Germany and I have been living in Japan since 2007, but I didn't say in Japan it's the same like in Germany, for instance.

I get very upset when people automatically act like not getting pregnant is simply a case of being "responsible enough". Couldn't be farther from the truth.

If you get very upset about it, there's nothing I can do about it.

I don't know what you would call girls then who have sex without using prevention despite knowing and sit later there and say "Oops, I did it againI forgot to take the pill and didn't use a condom to be sure and now I am pregnant"? (same with guys who "forgot" to put something on, I don't want to be accused of thinking that only females need to care about prevention)

With the desire for sex there comes maturity and responsibility. I have a friend who got pregnant because she wasn't using anything despite knowing and she had an abortion because of her career. I did support her but I won't lie and say that I didn't think "oh girl, what didn't you use something?". And she did say it was irresponsible from her herself.

You have the body, you have the desire, you want to have sex - but don't forget to use your brain, too.

 

@Severus_S

BRAVO is still around, good to know

Oh wow, they still have the "foto love stories" ahahaha

Edited October 27, 2013 by Mondat

[HeatherMarie]

You quoted parts of my post, and yet completely ignored the parts that talk about WHY being "responsible enough" isn't the only consideration here. You talk about girls who have sex without prevention and then go "oops", but you still aren't addressing the fact that a HIGH number of accidental/unplanned pregnancies are NOT "oops", but "lack of education", and that in fact CANNOT possibly be the female's fault.

 

If you are NEVER TAUGHT to "never take candy from strangers", all you are taught is "never eat candy ever", but everyone talks about how yummy candy is, so you take some that a stranger has offered you because you DON'T KNOW ANY BETTER..... is that your fault? Should you be looked down on and called irresponsible?

Edited October 27, 2013 by Marie19R

[Obscure_Trash]

I never said that having sex is unhealthy, not normal or even bad - that would be sex shaming in my opinion.

 

Okay, but I'm the one who used the word and just explained that I consider your belief to be sex shaming. I haven't a better word for it.

 

With the desire for sex there comes maturity and responsibility.

 

Not... really. There are twelve year olds that have a desire for sex. Figuring out you feel sexual attraction and sexual desire doesn't automatically make you "mature" or "responsible". o_O

[Mondat]

You quoted parts of my post, and yet completely ignored the parts that talk about WHY being "responsible enough" isn't the only consideration here. You talk about girls who have sex without prevention and then go "oops", but you still aren't addressing the fact that a HIGH number of accidental/unplanned pregnancies are NOT "oops", but "lack of education", and that in fact CANNOT possibly be the female's fault.

 

If you are NEVER TAUGHT to "never take candy from strangers", all you are taught is "never eat candy ever", but everyone talks about how yummy candy is, so you take some that a stranger has offered you because you DON'T KNOW ANY BETTER..... is that your fault? Should you be looked down on and called irresponsible?

You know, the thing is, when I wrote my first longer post I only thought about the girls I was addressing in my last post. I didn't know I had to write a whole essay about all the possible situations.

 

so you take some that a stranger has offered you because you DON'T KNOW ANY BETTER..... is that your fault? Should you be looked down on and called irresponsible?

 

"I saw sharks in front of the boat and jumped into the water like my friends did. I got bitten and lost my leg. I didn't know sharks are dangerous."

"My father hates gay people so I hated them too. I didn't know they are just normal people like me until I met Mike who's really cool."

"I just slept with my boyfriend and now I am pregnant. I didn't know I could get pregnant."

 

I think it is dangerous to protect ignorance or lack of knowledge. If you don't use your own brain and just do what other people do - you are at fault for it, in my opinion.

 

And Marie, I do think you should calm down a bit.

That being said, I am out of this thread.

[Infinis]

I think it is dangerous to protect ignorance or lack of knowledge. If you don't use your own brain and just do what other people do - you are at fault for it, in my opinion.

It is dangerous to protect ignorance.

 

Unfortunately, in the United States, especially among certain groups of people, sex and anything that goes with it remains a largely taboo subject. It's somehow either embarrassing or shameful to discuss it, and so our children are growing up extremely sheltered from sex, contraception, and anything else that goes along with sex.

 

Too many parents in this country are dropping the ball when it comes to the reproductive education of their children, and what's appalling is that such parents sometimes also have the gall to blame the child/teen for it. Schools also drop the ball; too many sex ed classes teach ONLY abstention (often along with pictures of STDs to further discourage sex!), which is flat out not working, and so children and teens are growing up woefully uneducated about how their own bodies work, how babymaking really works, what the contraceptive options are, and the negative consequences of sex.

 

The internet is here, yes, and it can help, but the internet is not a perfect source of information. It's full of human error, and humans make mistakes. People on the internet can be just as misinformed as the people seeking legit information. To someone who doesn't know what's true, it's hard to sort out truth from misinformation.

 

It's been said so many times it's probably cliche, but education is the key to everything. If sex was not such a taboo topic even in this day and age, we could educate our children better and perhaps this debate wouldn't ever had to reach the magnitude it has.

[whitebaron]

If you are NEVER TAUGHT to "never take candy from strangers", all you are taught is "never eat candy ever", but everyone talks about how yummy candy is, so you take some that a stranger has offered you because you DON'T KNOW ANY BETTER..... is that your fault? Should you be looked down on and called irresponsible?

Your body, your responsibility.

Its easy. Except for the two minorities of rape victims (1% iirc) and teenage pregnancies (10%), everyone else has to deal with it normally. Saying you didnt know saves you from no consequences where or whatsoever.

 

Its the same on all topics, once you reach adulthood, your choices, your responsibility.

[HeatherMarie]

I agree, *in a way*. But there are always things that we aren't considering. What about the people who *are* being "responsible", by *using* the sex education they were taught (pull-out, counting ovulation days, etc etc), except they were taught things that were wrong and they end up pregnant anyways?

 

Yes, adults need to be "responsible", but how far does that go? If a mistake happens, are they not being responsible? If a kid runs out into the street before his mom can grab his arm, is she not being responsible? I think too much emphasis is put on "adults have to do this! adults are irresponsible if this happens!" and not enough emphasis is placed on the thousands of completely legit reasons why *responsible* adults sometimes have bad things happen anyways.

[sparkle10184]

Your body, your responsibility.

Its easy. Except for the two minorities of rape victims (1% iirc) and teenage pregnancies (10%), everyone else has to deal with it normally. Saying you didnt know saves you from no consequences where or whatsoever.

 

Its the same on all topics, once you reach adulthood, your choices, your responsibility.

But if you don't know, you can't be responsible. What you're not seeming to understand is this: If you don't know any better you can't make the right choices. Yes, it is your body. But what if you don't how to take care of it? For example, if someone gave you a dog and said "Here, take this dog. It's your responsibility now." And you didn't know how to care for it, should you be punished if you feed it the wrong food or let it get away? NO.

[Rosedamai]

Your body, your responsibility.

Also, birth control CAN and MIGHT fail.

[hydrargyrum]

It's not just that they don't know. It's that they don't know that they don't know, and I think that's a very important distinction.

 

If I'm uneducated about a topic, but I'm aware of my lack of knowledge, I would agree that it would be somewhat irresponsible of me to jump headfirst into whatever it is without doing some research first. I wouldn't shame someone who didn't, but it is more responsible to learn first.

 

If someone really, honestly believes that sex doesn't lead to pregnancy, or really, honestly believes that soda afterwards can prevent pregnancy, or really, honestly believes that you can't get pregnant your first time, etc (all things some people actually do believe), then how are they supposed to know they're wrong? They think they already have the information necessary, so they have no reason to do further research.

[BlitzDrake]

Well my family just disowned me today. All because I rebelled against going for the "walk for life" thing at my church. I finally, after saying I'd rather not discuss why I didn't want to come, was cornered into admitting I'm pro-choice. Then everything went downhill after that, (starting preaching bible verses, telling me my view WILL change, how I'm not a christian, how they can't believe they live with one, etc) lol

I can't say I regret saying who I am though.

Right now I'm just laughing at how one opinion just divided things.

Edited October 27, 2013 by BlightWyvern

[Pokemonfan13]

Wow. They literally disowned you for being pro-choice? o.O

 

Great for you for standing up for your beliefs tho! Hope the family schism isn't permanent.

[Kestra15]

in a pregnancy? not that much. upped and downed, yes, but stopped - no.

I agree with "normal" diabetes, though it should be noted that once injections reach a certain point, there's no way back - ever.

Pregnancy or not, yes, you can start/stop insulin as required. Gestational diabetes is just another form of diabetes, and in all forms of diabetes it may not always be necessary to remain on insulin.

[iluvmychis]

While I don't agree with abortion, I certainly don't judge others for whatever decision they come to. So many circumstances bring us to decisions we never thought we would have to make or consider. There was one time in my life where I considered abortion. I was involved in a horrible relationship with an abusive drunk and ended up pregnant. I ended up miscarrying very early in the pregnancy anyway so the decision was taken out of my hands. I sometimes feel bad about losing the baby but being tied to that jerk would have been a nightmare and certainly not a stable situation for the child.

 

[diannethegeek]

A federal judge has ruled parts of Texas' latest anti-abortion bill to be unconstitutional. Specifically, doctors will not be required to have admitting privileges at a nearby hospital, though other parts of the bill will go into effect tomorrow. This is the law that Wendy Davis filibustered to try and keep from passing, which would have closed 1/3 of the states abortion clinics.

 

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/28...titutional?lite

[Cecona]

Well... it's something.

[Obscure_Trash]

While I don't agree with abortion, I certainly don't judge others for whatever decision they come to. So many circumstances bring us to decisions we never thought we would have to make or consider. There was one time in my life where I considered abortion. I was involved in a horrible relationship with an abusive drunk and ended up pregnant. I ended up miscarrying very early in the pregnancy anyway so the decision was taken out of my hands. I sometimes feel bad about losing the baby but being tied to that jerk would have been a nightmare and certainly not a stable situation for the child.

It sounds as if you're not with the abusive drunk anymore? If so, may I just say that I am so glad you are out of that situation, and I am very sorry for your loss. <3

 

Well... it's something.

 

That's... pretty much my sentiments. I wish it was more, but I'm glad there is something.

[Destiny Arts]

Well... it's something.

You know no matter how much you put your opinion of Abortion out there there will be people against or with you or who don't care or won't listen. I don't care much what a lot of people think of abortion, but it can be very harsh on the body too!

Edited October 30, 2013 by Destiny Arts

[KageSora]

I don't care much what a lot of people think of abortion, but it can be very harsh on the body too!

Yeah, and so can pregnancy.

[Shienvien]

I don't care much what a lot of people think of abortion, but it can be very harsh on the body too!

And pregnancy is far harsher. Percentually far more women suffer from pregnancy complications than from consequences of abortion.

[Kestra15]

And pregnancy is far harsher. Percentually far more women suffer from pregnancy complications than from consequences of abortion.

Just to highlight, here's some of the post-pregnancy changes to the body. Note that this is a very, very brief summary (I only had 7min) so this is just a snapshot of the changes. So when reading this consider that this is after pregnancy, so all the changes mentioned happened over the prior nine months.

 

Puerperium/Postpartum – period of up to six weeks after delivery where uterus and other structures of reproductive system return to pre-pregnant state.[1,2]

 

Physiological

 

Headaches are common for the first week after birth, likely due to tension. [1, 2]

 

Sleep is disturbed, but this tends to be as a result of caring for the baby. [1, 2]

 

Pregancny-induced hypertensions. [1]

 

Pain as a consequence of the birthing process. Afterpain are common as a result of the continued contraction of uterine muscle as it returns to pre-pregnant state, esp. in subsequent births. [1]

 

Sight problems not uncommon in pregnancy due to corneal oedema, as well as changes in taste and smell. Changes often return to normal after delivery. [1,2]

 

CVS (Cardiovascular system); during pregnancy the CVS system must meet the increased demands of both woman and fetus; the altered hormone levels also impact on this. Cardiac output rises by 40% due to increase in stroke volume and heart rate. Increase in blood vessels to deliver blood to placenta. Vasodilation occurs due to presence of progesterone resulting in a drop in BP. Plasma volume increases 50% and RBC by 18%. Post-partum the circulatory system diminishes to pre-pregancy state, aided by diuresis (increased urine output) first 48hrs post delivery. Normally takes 6 – 8 weeks for CVS to return to normal. Mobility needs to be encouraged to minimise risk of thrombosis due to high number of clotting factors in blood. [1,2]

 

MSK (Muscular-Skeletal); relaxin and progesterone act on cartiledge and connective tissue, allowing more movement in many joints – useful in the pelvis as it gives larger diameter for passage of the fetus. Abdomen muscles also become greatly stretched. Backache through pregnancy is common due to change of posture, increased weight, change of centre of gravity and other factomrs, and can persist post-pregnancy. Physiotherapy exercises postpartum can help manage this. MSK system can take up to three months to revert to a pre-pregnancy state; pelvic floor and abdo muscles may regain their tone more readily if mother takes regular postnatal exercises.[1]

 

During pregnancy rearrangement of the digestive tract occurs as the fetus develops, which can cause discomfort. The increase in circulating hormones can also cause food cravings, increase in appetite, and constipation, and a gain of weight to store nutrients is also common. With the decrease of progesterone the digestive system quickly returns to normal function; immediate weight loss of up to 5kg and within six months a return to pre-pregnancy weight is normal, although there is an average retention of about 1kg/pregnancy. Constipation is not uncommon during the postpartum period. [1,2,3]

 

Urination habits change due to the pressure of uterus on the bladder and hormonal influences; postpartum urinary output increase for ~7days as excess circulatory fluid and waste products from the involution of the uterus are expelled, but fluid balance can take up to three weeks to be restored. Bladder function can be slow to return to normal, and factors such as length of labour and pelvic floor damage make a difference. Renal system takes about six weeks to return to normal, but the morphological changes can take up to 16wks and in 10% of women anatomical changes may remain. UTIs develop in 2% - 4% of women postpartum. [1,2] Stress incontinence (involuntary incontinence on exertion) and urge incontinence are common postpartum, and can last past 1yr. [3]

 

Uterus returns to normal size and tone, from 1kg in weight to 60g, through process of autolysis (muscle breaks down) and ischaemia (reduction of blood flow to uterine lining). Lochia (materials discharged from uterus) can continue up to a month after birth; lochia rubra (red in colour, 3 – 4 days), lochia serosa (brown, 5 – 9 days) and lochia alba (yellow-white, 10 – 28 days), with colours corresponding to material being discharged (e.g. blood, amniotic fluid, cervical mucus, general debris). [1,3]

 

Menstruation and Ovulation. Postpartum period is period of relative infertility; resumption of menstruation and ovulation varies, although greater tendency for exclusively-breastfeeding women to experience longer period of anovulation and amenorrhea. Menstruation usually begins 4 – 6 weeks post-birth for non-lactating women; first cycle may not be ‘normal’ but second cycle is usually normal.

 

Dyspareunia, or pain during intercourse, is common in the first eight weeks and can persist up to 18months after birth, sometimes coupled with a disinterest in sex. [3]

 

Psychological

 

PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder)is defined as extreme psychological stress following a traumatic or threatening experienced. This can be due to unfulfilled expectations of the birthing process, intense pain caused, use of technological interventions or insensitive/undignified care. PTSD is often associated with feelings of pain, humiliation, mutilation and helplessness. Traumatic birth has been likened to sexual assault. Commonly assosciated with individuals with a history of psychiatric disorders. Treatment is psychotherapy and 50% recover within 6 months. [1]

 

Puerperal psychosis is very uncommon, characterised by thought disorders, severe depression and may result in suicide/infanticide. Occurrence is ~0.2% and onset is normally 1 – 4wks after birth. A sudden onset after an interval of well-being since birth is characteristic, and those with previous puerperal psychosis have risk of developing it a second time. May be characterised by schizophrenic and affective symptoms, frank psychosis, cognitive impairment and grossly disorganised behaviour. Hospitalisation is usually necessary and preferable to admit mother and child together in a specialist unit. Treatment is psychotherapy and pharmacological methods. [3]

 

Fatigue is best defined as a decrease in response after prolonged activity, a protective mechanism where body slows or stops to allow regeneration. High rates of fatigue are expected especially in the immediate postpartum period, and some studies suggest that by the end of the postpartum period around half of women still feel fatigued. [3]

 

References

 

1. Wylie, L. (2005) Essential Anatomy and Physiology in Maternity Care 2nd Edn. London; Churchill Livingstone Elsevier.

2. Blackburn, S. T. (2007) Maternal, Fetal and Neonatal Physiology: A Clinical Perspective 3rd Edn. Missouri; Saunders Elsevier.

3. Bick, D, MacArthur, C. & Winter, H. (2009) Postnatal Care: Evidence and Guidelines for Management 2nd Edn. London; Churchill Livingstone Elsevier.

 

[Fuzzbucket]

Any doctor who ever tries to tell you they know more about drugs than the pharmacist is one you should steer well clear of.

LORD yes. I am allergic to ASA/aspirin (and that's one you can buy over the counter) - and am always careful to mention this when I see a doctor - even my own doctor ! I got a scrip from A&E once when on vacation out of province, and as usual told the duty doctor about this.

 

When I later freaked out in KMart, (like hallucinations and I couldn't find the way out...) I went to a pharmacist for advice, and he was appalled and said that what I had been given was TOTALLY contraindicated for someone with ASA allergy. But I TOLD THE DOCTOR....

 

I like doctors who look it up and even phone a pharmacist before prescribing. Doctors know bodies, pharmacists know drugs.

[HeatherMarie]

Doctors know bodies, pharmacists know drugs.

This should be like, a PSA. EVERYONE should be aware of this fact.

[Brite]

Does anyone have the article where a bill was trying to be passed that said that a woman would be arrested for having an abortion if she was raped due to evidence being tampered?

[diannethegeek]

Does anyone have the article where a bill was trying to be passed that said that a woman would be arrested for having an abortion if she was raped due to evidence being tampered?

You mean the one in New Mexico? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/24/n..._n_2541894.html