Change the "do not accept aid" etc. messages

[Nectaris]

Whether it's an owner's responsibility to look after their eggs or not, there is already a warning saying not to help people without their permission -and that is worded unclearly. The suggestion here is to make that message more clear. The issue isn't whether we should have a message like that in the first place, but whether it should be understandable at a glance.

To me it isn't that it is worded unclearly, it is the fact that there is no distinction between someone who knows about the feature and truly doesn't want aid, and someone who doesn't know how to change it and does want aid. The way it is now, there is always some room for doubt, and people will help on the assumption that you might actually want help, but just don't know how to change it.

[SolarCat]

"This user is open to assistance in raising their eggs and hatchlings."

 

"This user wishes to control the growth of their eggs and hatchlings themselves. Please do not add their eggs or hatchlings to fansites, forums, or anything else, as this is against the site rules."

 

 

Something like that?

I'd hope my second statement still makes it clear that while the scroll owner themselves may post their dragons on a hatchery, that it's unacceptable if other people do that.

[engelina]

i like the second one.

 

is it also a possibility to get this message on top of the scroll page? i use yarolds, and post my scroll link there. so do others, either on yarolds, or elsewhere. so people often only see the scroll page instead of the dragons pages.

[rimedragona]

"This owner does not accept aid. Please do nothing to try to help their eggs or hatchlings grow - it is against the rules."

 

??

I like this one, myself. Mentioning fansites or websites of any sort seems sort of... too meta to me, you know?

 

It's simple, polite, but still explains what the heck aid is, for those who are not enlightened. And "Do nothing" is a pretty clear directive.

 

and then the other could be:

 

"This owner is accepting aid in helping their eggs and hatchlings grow."

 

Still explaining what aid is, and still lets you know that it's okay to help the babies get views/clicks, whatever the method. Leave fansites out of it entirely, because if they don't know about them, mentioning them is going to be another thing in need of clarification.

[changeling007]

the original post:

I was sitting in a fan site ER hatching dragons when I realized that what I was doing was against the rules. A majority of the users using the ER hadn't opted to accept aid from other users. And since fansites rely on aid from other users, that majority of people were making it against the rules for anyone to be there.

 

Obviously not many of us care too much about that, but I'm paranoid about rules.

 

So can we just remove that little blurb at the bottom of they page, or maybe make "The owner of this egg/hatchling is accepting aid from others" the default?

 

I think you misunderstand; the message means that users are not allowed to post other user's dragons on fansites or forums. For instance, if you're poking through the forums, click on someone's sig, and see that their eggs all have 3 hours left until they die, you would check for that message -if it is there, you are not allowed to save those eggs, because that person doesn't want others messing with their dragons. If the message is not there, you are allowed to save them by ERing them because the owner is willing to be helped. Looking at them in fansites is fine and is not what is meant by 'aid'. If looking at them in fansites were not allowed, everyone's dragons would die.

But now that I know that, I think the topic at hand ought to be changing the default to 'accepting aid'.

If "The owner of this egg is accepting aid from others." becomes the default, at least the people who really dont want help can say so, and the new users who don't even know about that setting dont have to wonder why no one stepped in to help them...

Edited June 28, 2011 by changeling007

[Sadako]

I think you misunderstand; the message means that users are not allowed to post other user's dragons on fansites or forums. For instance, if you're poking through the forums, click on someone's sig, and see that their eggs all have 3 hours left until they die, you would check for that message -if it is there, you are not allowed to save those eggs, because that person doesn't want others messing with their dragons. If the message is not there, you are allowed to save them by ERing them because the owner is willing to be helped. Looking at them in fansites is fine and is not what is meant by 'aid'. If looking at them in fansites were not allowed, everyone's dragons would die.

 

There is a suggestion somewhere in this section to change the message to something that specifies what you're actually not allowed to do, because many users find that message confusing.

 

Edit: http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=92115 <There is the suggestion to change the message.

Edited June 28, 2011 by Sadako

[digipup]

I think you misunderstand, Sadako. If I read all that correctly, I think the suggestion is to make the default message 'the owner is accepting aid from others', rather than what it is right now.

If that is what is being suggested, I support.

[dragonpuck]

I think you misunderstand, Sadako. If I read all that correctly, I think the suggestion is to make the default message 'the owner is accepting aid from others', rather than what it is right now.

If that is what is being suggested, I support.

NO, the OP saw fansite viewing as against the rules because many of the eggs had "not accepting aid"

Which it is not .It is only against the rule to add OTHER PEOPLES dragons to fansites if they are "not accepting aid"

 

An ON default would result in many over viewed dragons, a very bad idea IMHO.

I believe this was discussed to death when the option was added, things that aren't broken don't need to be fixed

[tjekan]

But she only suggests that because she thinks clicking on somebody's eggs on a fansite is "aiding" them.

 

In reality, what is meant by "aiding" another player is posting the other player's dragons somewhere to help them get views. I do this for my daughter, for example. But we shouldn't do it for people we don't know unless they have asked for help, because otherwise we might mess up their trade plans or their eggs might get soft shell and we wouldn't be able to hide them, etc.

 

Viewing or clicking dragons that the owner has posted him or herself is not "aiding" the player, it's following the rules.

[Sadako]

I think you misunderstand, Sadako. If I read all that correctly, I think the suggestion is to make the default message 'the owner is accepting aid from others', rather than what it is right now.

If that is what is being suggested, I support.

That is the suggestion, and the reason that they suggest that is that they misunderstand what it means.

[little lost dragon]

For the users accepting or not accepting aid. I think there should at leas the something so you know who stuck your eggs where. Cause I know my self and a few others have had our eggs attacked and we'll we do not know by who. The accepting aid or not seems to be paid little attention to anyway I find. How ever I'm sure if the user had to or knew there user name would appears in a list sort of say for those who clicked and if they stuck you eggs anywhere then I'm sure it will get more attention.

 

 

[pbdog]

Its like that because some people will put another person's dragons on a fan site and they wouldn't know about it and put them on even more fan sites and there dragons might get sick and die. If a person dosn't want to take the chance of this happening, they leave it at 'this owner is not accepting aid'. If the default message was that they were accepting aid, then before they figured out and changed it someone might have put it on a fansite already. This is why I don't think that's a good idea.

[SilvorMoon]

I think there should at leas the something so you know who stuck your eggs where.

 

I don't think that's possible. I mean, even someone without an account can stick eggs in a hatchery. Not to mention how difficult it would be to get a zillion unrelated hatcheries coordinated in such a way that they would automatically report who did what to which egg and send that information back to the main cave.

[Sir Barton]

I fully support changing the default to accepting aid. I didn't even know I wasn't accepting help until I asked a friend to watch my eggs for me when I was going out of town. She told me that she couldn't because I declined aid. Confused the hell out of me and I had been playing for over a year at that point.

 

I think it would be a benefit for new people to have aid on and then if you see a scroll with aid turned off you know that person really doesn't want help and isn't just ignorant of the message. That should cut down on some of the unwanted "help" that goes around. I have very little doubt that there are good samaritans who have screwed up someone's ND experiment, trade, etc because they deliberated about whether or not the person actually didn't want aid or if they didn't know to change the message to opt out of it and made the wrong choice. If the default is to accept aid then there would be no question of intent if aid acceptance is turned off.

 

I seem to remember a fansite that required aid be turned on so the OP isn't completely wrong. That was many moons ago and probably to make sure the mods could "legally" remove eggs. It's something that we take for granted now but apparently the fansite back then felt the need to make that distinction and since many of the fansites have a little "x" that allows users to remove dead, fogged or adults technically in some cases we are giving aid.

[changeling007]

I think you misunderstand, Sadako. If I read all that correctly, I think the suggestion is to make the default message 'the owner is accepting aid from others', rather than what it is right now.

If that is what is being suggested, I support.

I was misunderstanding, but its understandable why.

 

Still, the message is confusing. I interpret 'aid' as 'helping raise your dragons'. Not so much taking care of them for you.

[RainDear]

Please note that it is against the site rules to give aid to a user without their permission.

 

To me this means that when I post my eggs on a fansite, I am giving all the users of that fansite my permission to view and help raise my dragons, but I am not giving anyone permission to post them anywhere for me. It also means, to me, that if I specifically ask someone to post my eggs somewhere, that person is allowed to do so, while I still don''t want anyone that I didn't specifically ask to post my eggs for me.

[Nectaris]

I think it would be a benefit for new people to have aid on and then if you see a scroll with aid turned off you know that person really doesn't want help and isn't just ignorant of the message. That should cut down on some of the unwanted "help" that goes around. I have very little doubt that there are good samaritans who have screwed up someone's ND experiment, trade, etc because they deliberated about whether or not the person actually didn't want aid or if they didn't know to change the message to opt out of it and made the wrong choice. If the default is to accept aid then there would be no question of intent if aid acceptance is turned off.

^This. As long as someone can doubt whether or not you really want help, people will help anyways even if you don't want it.

[HeatherMarie]

http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=92115

This topic suggests ways to change the "aid" message to be more understandable. Change it to something that actually defines what "aid" means, and maybe even have a thing where you have to deliberately choose an option when first signing up.

 

I would *much* prefer those types of changes to simply making "accept aid" the default. I really really *really* think that is a bad idea. Sure, there are plenty of users who could use help in the beginning, but there are also *tons* of users who have played these type of animal-raising games before and know what they are doing. If it just defaults to "accepting aid" for newbies then I'm sure there will be *plenty* of sick eggs, with newbies doing everything right but the eggs are getting extra help anyways, and they may have no idea that they need to specify that they don't want people posting their eggs. Not good!

 

I would much much rather it simply be something that needs to be chosen when you sign up, so that there is no doubt as to what users really want.

Edited June 29, 2011 by Marie19R

[DarkEternity]

What about

'Please note that it is against the site rules to post a user's dragons anywhere without their permission.'

 

or more strongly

 

'Under the site rules, posting a user's dragons anywhere without permission is strictly prohibited.'

 

Edited June 29, 2011 by DarkEternity

[Sadako]

Choosing to accept aid or not when you sign up is something that never occurred to me -and I think it's a freaking fantastic idea, given that: 1. when you sign up and have to choose whether to accept aid or not, there is also something that explains what this means so that you can choose the one you actually mean to choose and 2. the message on the scroll pages also explains it so that people who view the scroll know which you actually meant to choose.

 

I am a proponent of specificity. I cannot understand why so many people are not, lol!

[Pokemonfan13]

In a help topic about a case of unwanted "help" [or malicious action, not sure] it came up that one person hadn't understood the don'give aid messsage, so perhaps there could be a clearer message, that perhaps gives a more dire warning [can get your scroll burned, perhaps, even if it isn't ever triggered, and I'm sure there are chronic bombers that it should be triggered on...] The Ones with the burning message included could easily be modified to remove it if it isn't desired.

 

Some suggestions from that or this thread:

"It is against the rules to give a dragon (or egg/hatchling) views without their owner's permission" <- could make people think that just looking at dragons is against the rules...

 

"It is against the rules to increase the number of views that dragons that are not on your scroll get without permission"

 

"Posting people's dragons without their permission is against site rules and could result in your own scroll being burned." <- might cause confusion due to the word "posting" not being very applicable to fansites

 

"Adding dragons to websites without permission is against site rules and could result in your own scroll being burned."

 

"It is against the rules to give an egg or hatchling views or to link to it on any other website, without its owner's permission. If you do, it could result in your own scroll being burned." <- the "give an egg or hatchling views" as it is could make people think that just looking at dragons is against the rules...

Edited July 12, 2012 by Pokemonfan13

[olympe]

"It is against the rules to give a dragon (or egg/hatchling) views without their owner's permission"

"It is against the rules to give an egg or hatchling views or to link to it on any other website, without its owner's permission. If you do, it could result in your own scroll being burned."

Sounds like it's very easy to misunderstand. Just think of some newbie seeing this message after clicking on an egg or hatchling (in a hatchery, no less) and fearing for the safety of their scroll... Can you imagine the sheer number of people asking in the forums if their scroll will get burned? It might exceed the number of people asking why their dragons' names have been erased.

 

"It is against the rules to increase the number of views others' dragons get without permission"

Way too complicated for people who don't speak English well. Same for most of the others.

 

Personally, I think that if you don't want to risk your eggs being view-bombed, hide your username and keep freshly caught rare/uncommon eggs fogged for a day or so. Don't link to your scroll anywhere, and evil-minded strangers won't have a way to find your scroll in the first place

[Pokemonfan13]

It seems a shame to force people to be paranoid if they don't want their dragons tampered with... A lot of people like to show off their dragons, and others have to give out a scroll link for trading or gifting purposes.

 

If you think that the suggestions are hard to understand, make your own suggestion or suggest a way to clarify an existing one. If the message is clear enough then people won't be asking if their scroll will be burned, since it should be obvious that that action is only taken with people who add a dragon that isn't their to websites. And I actually marked those two you mentioned as possibly causing panics in the exact manner you describe, so I know those are problems.

 

I personally think this one is very clear:

"Adding dragons to websites without permission is against site rules and could result in your own scroll being burned."

It is my own take on the one above it which could cause confusion due to the word "posting".

Edited July 11, 2012 by Pokemonfan13

[olympe]

I'm afraid that that's pretty hard to word in a way that even a new learner of English would understand. However, if we could settle on a general statement and translate it into various languages, we might have a better chance at people actually understanding it correctly.

 

Sadly, I don't believe that people who blatantly ignore the no-aid-rule right now are going to be stopped by a new message. Even if TJ worked on it 24/7, he probably wouldn't be able to catch enough of the culprits to discourage the rest of them, so there's no incentive for people to stop killing other people's dragons.

[Infinis]

IMO empty threats about burning won't be very effective, because the first time someone does it and doesn't get their scroll burned they're going to learn.

 

TJ said at one point that there is a function for fansites to be able to actually password-verify the identity of the person adding dragons, but that most fansites don't use it (the only place I know of this awesome feature being in place is in EATW Dragonmarket, where you have to put in your password before even being able to offer). This is obviously a solution just for the fansite side of the issue, but I think that strongly suggesting implementation of this feature for the fansites would be very helpful.

 

As for the message on the scrolls themselves, I've never found an issue understanding the one there is now. Or, we could leave the message as is but change the phrase "give aid" to something like "post and add to fansites" ("Please note that it is against the site rules to post and add to fansites the eggs and hatchlings of a user without their permission"). Iunno. Other than that I like the first sentence of the last option.

 

Personally, I think that if you don't want to risk your eggs being view-bombed, hide your username and keep freshly caught rare/uncommon eggs fogged for a day or so. Don't link to your scroll anywhere, and evil-minded strangers won't have a way to find your scroll in the first place

 

Not everyone wants their username not showing though. I've had my username hidden for a while since the last stint with my eggs getting added somewhere. I don't keep it hidden and I have a link to it in my signature because I do like people seeing my dragons. :<

 

And people can still add eggs and hatchlings to fansites that take single-code adding - all they need to know is the code. :x