05/04/10 - State of the Cave

[silverstreak12]

Then think what you will.  I'm becoming more and more satisfied with TJ's decision as I see more people showing their true colours on the issue.

I was one of the people who was quite vocally advocating the frills staying, and it became apparent to many of us on that one board that you made that you would not be swayed by the overwhelming response in a positive light.

 

We're frustrated because we thought we'd have one more month, but that is no indication of what we as a whole want. There will always be a segment of the population that will arbitrarily, and loudly, disagree with any given statement, but there will also be a silent majority, who remains silent if they do not deem their cause in danger. The reason not many people spoke up before you made your announcement is because we didn't see anything out of the ordinary; all we saw was a few people causing drama. Had we known you'd take it so seriously, of course we would have said something. You can't blame us for not knowing it was such a dire situation. That's not fair to either of us.

 

Please don't be rash about this. Just because a few people on this board are opposing you, don't lump every single person in with them. To put it plainly, I'm frustrated by the fact that there are ten pages of discontent over the situation, but you focus on a handful of posts, dare I say less than ten of them, that are negative. There are ten pages of people exclaiming how they loved frills, how they wish they retired in June instead of May, but you don't see them, or at least don't acknowledge them. That just rubs me the wrong way, honestly.

 

And if this is off topic, shoot me. I shouldn't have to worry about expressing my opinion on a controversial subject on a board that is the one solid fact we have about it. It is most certainly on topic.

 

ETA: AAAAAAAAAAND of course this breaks the new page. Gah.

Edited May 5, 2010 by silverstreak12

[Akrona]

I was one of the people who was quite vocally advocating the frills staying, and it became apparent to many of us on that one board that you made that you would not be swayed by the overwhelming response in a positive light.

 

We're frustrated because we thought we'd have one more month, but that is no indication of what we as a whole want. There will always be a segment of the population that will arbitrarily, and loudly, disagree with any given statement, but there will also be a silent majority, who remains silent if they do not deem their cause in danger. The reason not many people spoke up before you made your announcement is because we didn't see anything out of the ordinary; all we saw was a few people causing drama. Had we known you'd take it so seriously, of course we would have said something. You can't blame us for not knowing it was such a dire situation. That's not fair to either of us.

 

Please don't be rash about this. Just because a few people on this board are opposing you, don't lump every single person in with them. To put it plainly, I'm frustrated by the fact that there are ten pages of discontent over the situation, but you focus on a handful of posts, dare I say less than ten of them, that are negative. There are ten pages of people exclaiming how they loved frills, how they wish they retired in June instead of May, but you don't see them, or at least don't acknowledge them. That just rubs me the wrong way, honestly.

 

And if this is off topic, shoot me. I shouldn't have to worry about expressing my opinion on a controversial subject on a board that is the one solid fact we have about it. It is most certainly on topic.

 

ETA: AAAAAAAAAAND of course this breaks the new page. Gah.

[Krissi2197]

Hm... Least I got at least one frozen hatchling. My collection isn't complete, but hey, can't complain. Although I thought they were supposed to be discontinued at the end of June? Oh well... *Shrugs*

 

I need that new skin...

[Godzilla 2000]

forgive my post but i agree with silverstreak. just seriously, i never even got an ADULT frill because i was always locked, then when im unlocked i see this? i was vaugly upset =/

[Kibble212]

I don't see the point in retiring them, honestly. It's not like they are going to be gone. There are still a lot of people who have them, so you aren't taking them away. It's kinda pointless in my opinion. I don't think that made sense. Uh, it's like, you aren't punishing us really, since we still have them, we just can't get more.

 

I've been looking for a frill for a while now, but I haven't seen any. I think they were cute. The creator needs to stop being such a childish pessimist.

[Vicats]

I'm waiting on the contract that has been tossed around in Hypothetical-Land amongst TJ and the artists for the past few months; the intent is to pretty much say that artists have the right to pull their sprite so long as a replacement has been made which can take the dragon's space.

 

I find that there are more and more people who seem interested in spriting DC only for the "glory" of having their precious, special concept (Based off of their own OC or their own species) made into something official somewhere... it's the perfect place to take advantage of a nice, flexible and understanding Admin who foots the cost and the coding work, and it lets your Pretty Dragon get thousands of adoring fans who clamor over them. And this is where the whole "YOU CAN'T JUST REPLACE MY ART, IT'S MY CONCEPT!" issue comes up.

 

If you want your concepts to stay yours, don't suggest it as a concept for DC. Because it becomes MUCH bigger than you or your art after it's been implemented. It becomes part of a huge site with a huge community and people are going to have interpretations of it whether you want them to or not. (And yes, I do have five or six dragon species with complex backgrounds, and none of them will ever be on DC, because they are precious to me and I would be uncomfortable with sharing them on such a scale. I make sure that my DC species and my OC species are unique and seperate entities because of this.)

[Krissi2197]

I was one of the people who was quite vocally advocating the frills staying, and it became apparent to many of us on that one board that you made that you would not be swayed by the overwhelming response in a positive light.

 

We're frustrated because we thought we'd have one more month, but that is no indication of what we as a whole want. There will always be a segment of the population that will arbitrarily, and loudly, disagree with any given statement, but there will also be a silent majority, who remains silent if they do not deem their cause in danger. The reason not many people spoke up before you made your announcement is because we didn't see anything out of the ordinary; all we saw was a few people causing drama. Had we known you'd take it so seriously, of course we would have said something. You can't blame us for not knowing it was such a dire situation. That's not fair to either of us.

 

Please don't be rash about this. Just because a few people on this board are opposing you, don't lump every single person in with them. To put it plainly, I'm frustrated by the fact that there are ten pages of discontent over the situation, but you focus on a handful of posts, dare I say less than ten of them, that are negative. There are ten pages of people exclaiming how they loved frills, how they wish they retired in June instead of May, but you don't see them, or at least don't acknowledge them. That just rubs me the wrong way, honestly.

 

And if this is off topic, shoot me. I shouldn't have to worry about expressing my opinion on a controversial subject on a board that is the one solid fact we have about it. It is most certainly on topic.

 

ETA: AAAAAAAAAAND of course this breaks the new page. Gah.

Just saw this, and I agree. Even though I'm not THAT upset, I still feel like I got jipped because we were supposed to have one more month. It was even in the spriters signature.

[Sadako]

Ya know, I'm pretty sure I'm one of the bad eggs/negative voices/critics everyone keeps talking about and I'm actually not even complaining about Lythiaren, or frills, or even the suddenness of their departure.

 

All I want is a simple measure to stop this happening again in the future.

[Tivuli]

So very excited about the Spring Theme!! YEAH SPRING!!

[Renorei]

Ah, jeez. Can we stop complaining about Lythiaren's desire to retire them and start complaining about the fact that they were retired nearly two months before any of us had reason to suspect they'd be retired?

[girlpirate]

The Frills have always been one of my favorite releases. The artwork is stunning and they are really unique in their design. It's a gorgeous dragon.

 

Its a shame that the negative comments took priority over the positive ones and the artist is too childish to get over her butthurt and deal with it or shrug it off. The dragon became "hated" mostly because of its common nature - an issue which could have been resolved by making it less common, just as easily as removing it.

 

As an artist, writer, photographer I know that when I create something people will like it and people will not like it. An artist can't force anyone to love their art and there will ALWAYS be critics. An artist can deal with this simple fact of life by accepting it and enjoying what they do regardless, or acting like a spoiled, whiny, obnoxious, tantrum-throwing infant.

[arlymaye]

Honestly, ever since the retirement of frills have been brought up, I have seen way more positive encouragement from the community to have the spriter reconsider her decision compared to those who disdained it. In addition to that, the positive encouragement have been written eloquently and they presented their case in a very civil manner.

 

So, it is really upsetting when the spriter continue to dwell on negative responses to her artwork, rather than taking a step back and being gracious about the support and encouragement she has received.

 

To continue bringing up the hatred for the sprite after TJ pulled them is really a huge slap on the face of those who have stood by the spirter.

 

What is done is done and I hope everyone would just settle down and let's find a way to figure out what can be done so there will not be a repeat of this, should any other spriter decides that they could no longer accept that not everyone likes their artwork.

Edited May 5, 2010 by arlymaye

[Akrona]

I'm waiting on the contract that has been tossed around in Hypothetical-Land amongst TJ and the artists for the past few months; the intent is to pretty much say that artists have the right to pull their sprite so long as a replacement has been made which can take the dragon's space.

 

I find that there are more and more people who seem interested in spriting DC only for the "glory" of having their precious, special concept (Based off of their own OC or their own species) made into something official somewhere... it's the perfect place to take advantage of a nice, flexible and understanding Admin who foots the cost and the coding work, and it lets your Pretty Dragon get thousands of adoring fans who clamor over them. And this is where the whole "YOU CAN'T JUST REPLACE MY ART, IT'S MY CONCEPT!" issue comes up.

 

If you want your concepts to stay yours, don't suggest it as a concept for DC. Because it becomes MUCH bigger than you or your art after it's been implemented. It becomes part of a huge site with a huge community and people are going to have interpretations of it whether you want them to or not. (And yes, I do have five or six dragon species with complex backgrounds, and none of them will ever be on DC, because they are precious to me and I would be uncomfortable with sharing them on such a scale. I make sure that my DC species and my OC species are unique and seperate entities because of this.)

Also this. Vikittens is full of wisdom.

 

I don't understand the point of giving up something like that if you're clearly attached to it. I've seen people posting RP characters as dragon concepts and frankly I don't understand this. Are these people then going to claim it is still theirs alone to use? That those who play the site and OWN the actual dragon are not able to RP as that dragon because it's "their character"? Despite how absurd this sounds, I don't doubt some people here would try to enforce that.

 

For this I must commend Lyth for not putting that green webby aquatic species on DC, because IIRC it is one of her original species. OCs do not belong on Dragon Cave.

[Krissi2197]

I'm not mad about them being retired... I liked the Frills, but I respected Lyth's decision in retiring them. If I complained it would've made the situation worse, so I stayed out of it. Now I want to come into this, because they got retired almost two months before they were supposed to. I'm wondering why. Because there were too many complains? I dunno.

 

I'm just ticked off that they retired the Frills way before they were supposed to. I wanted to have two males, two females, and two frozen males, and two frozen females, but I can't do that anymore. I thought I had more time, but apparently, I didn't. THAT'S why I'm ticked. Not because of the choice of them getting retired.

[silverstreak12]

To continue bringing up the hatred for the sprite after TJ pulled them is really a huge slap on the face of those who have stood by the spirter.

Please point out to me where people insult the sprite, if you may. I don't recall seeing spritebashing.

[hana_ginkawa]

Whew! Finally got my frozen hatchling just in the nick of time.

Edited May 5, 2010 by hana_ginkawa

[Dragonhatchling]

@Lythiaren: just so you know I bolded this so you'd see it, not to be mean.

 

I do respect your decision on pulling the frills. I did read your thread on the subject but by that time I didn't see anything I could do, I didn't know the whole story on others opinions or on what really was behind it. By the time I wanted to speak up about your thread said you wouldn't be swayed in the other direction to change your mind of pulling the frills, so I walked away in sadness wishing I could have been on here instead of in school trying to calm the very very few frill haters down.

 

People here are trying to tell you the same things as I am, We respect you, the frills and your decision to take them away. A few nasty comments here or there are one thing, yes. But that's what every sprite gets in one time or another, in fact that's what most every artist goes though their whole life. Humans are like this, they either hate it, love it or don't even know about it. Give them time, they'll either get used to it or leave you/frills alone.

 

One of the biggest reason I see people are mad is the fact this change came with no warning and a previous deadline of the end of June. Everyone is confused on this, the thread you posted (and yes I forgot where but I forget where everything is) said you'd take them away at the end of June. A notice of a day at least would have been nice but again this was your decision and yours alone, none of which am I marking you down for to hate.

 

What you see before you in this thread is the many people who wished and still hope (like me) to see frills again, been able to get at least one more than they already had. I do hope you reconsider this pulling and let us see your wonderful frills again for at least a little while.

 

To those who bash the frills: Just because you don't like a sprite, or it's egg description or whatever you didn't like about it doesn't give you the right to bash the sprite for all it's worth to the point the maker feels so strongly about it. At the very least give an explanation of why you didn't like it and perhaps make a suggestion to help better the situation.

 

Always and Forever will Love Frills,

Dragonhatchling

[Renorei]

I'm not mad about them being retired... I liked the Frills, but I respected Lyth's decision in retiring them. If I complained it would've made the situation worse, so I stayed out of it. Now I want to come into this, because they got retired almost two months before they were supposed to. I'm wondering why. Because there were too many complains? I dunno.

 

I'm just ticked off that they retired the Frills way before they were supposed to. I wanted to have two males, two females, and two frozen males, and two frozen females, but I can't do that anymore. I thought I had more time, but apparently, I didn't. THAT'S why I'm ticked. Not because of the choice of them getting retired.

Same here. I wanted a few more, and I had no reason to believe I didn't have more time to get them.

 

I could even have been satisfied with them being retired this early, if there had been some warning in advance, rather than an announcement after-the-fact.

[arlymaye]

Please point out to me where people insult the sprite, if you may. I don't recall seeing spritebashing.

Exactly my point silverstreak12.

 

I have not seen any major spritebashing happening at all. But in the words of the spriter herself:-

 

You'll have to excuse me for requesting removal of something that caused so much offense, grief and hatred.

 

 

[silverstreak12]

Exactly my point silverstreak12.

 

I have not seen any major spritebashing happening at all. But in the words of the spriter herself:-

 

You'll have to excuse me for requesting removal of something that caused so much offense, grief and hatred.

Oh dear, I apologize, I misread that statement. You are quite correct, I am sorry.

[Krissi2197]

I could even have been satisfied with them being retired this early, if there had been some warning in advance, rather than an announcement after-the-fact.

This. If I would have known I would have bred my frills and tried to get the rest of what I needed, but no warnings. How were we supposed to know this would happen? I'm wondering if this would have went by so much better if there was SOME warning a week or so before today.

[Couragefan09]

I wish we could get a replacement dragon to take the Frills place like what happened with the old pink. It certainly would help the loss.

[Bernouli]

Same here. I wanted a few more, and I had no reason to believe I didn't have more time to get them.

 

I could even have been satisfied with them being retired this early, if there had been some warning in advance, rather than an announcement after-the-fact.

No warning? Really? I've known for a whole month that they'd be gone soon, and started collecting then, It's your own fault for not taking advantage of the very first advanced warning... o-o

[dothefreddy]

Exactly my point silverstreak12.

 

I have not seen any major spritebashing happening at all. But in the words of the spriter herself:-

 

You'll have to excuse me for requesting removal of something that caused so much offense, grief and hatred.

This is exactly what I was going to say. I've not seen one instance of the massive hatred that people are claiming for this sprite. If I've missed it, please show me where! What I have seen is general annoyance at clogging the cave, but I've also see it applied to mints, vines, blacks, pinks and other such commons.

 

I really don't get where this supposed hatred is coming from.

[kadoatie]

Well, thank you to TJ for at least informing us of what happened instead of watching us bumble through help threads in the dark :3