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TJ09

05/04/10 - State of the Cave

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I'm a huge fan of this idea- Is this the only dragon/sprite Lyth has helped make? (I really don't pay attention enough, I know). If it's not, whose to say Lyth won't get touchy feely about the next sprite/dragon they've helped create?

 

A contract would definitely put a stop to it, and give us dragonkeepers a little security.

 

Also, to those who are angered or disconcerted about the deadline misconception, whether or not there was a misunderstanding about WHEN they would be retired, the fact is they still would be retired. If an artist wants it pulled, as TJ quoted from Lyth earlier, Lyth doesn't get the right to say when she wants them done. TJ isn't whipped, he shouldn't be responsible for whatever date Lyth wanted it to happen.

TJ did it, Lyth wanted it, it's done, it's TJ's site. I am discouraged as well about not getting a frozen frill pair for my family, but hey, that's life, and I'll pursue other, more stable dragons in the future.

 

On a happier note, green is my absolute favorite color and I 'bout fell out of my seat when I saw the new skin. Just another reason to glue my forehead to the face of the Dragoncave Forum D:

 

Edit: Spelling Fail.

Edit 2: Double spelling fail.

I agree on both issues. I, personally, don't think the spriters should have the option to pull sprites, because it seems to me like the sprites are donations. And people don't go around donating things and then snatching them back.

 

And I also think it's ridiculous to expect TJ to obey the demands of spriters about retirement dates.

 

It's TJ's site, not the spriters'. He should be able to run it the way he wants to.

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Whoever started bombing my eggs and hatchies: I noticed in time, so, eat it.

Now thats a REAL mature way of handling things. Boo hoo, wah! Someone has a differing opinion than mine. I know! I'll commit an act of terror against them so they'll learn to keep their mouth shut! rolleyes.gif

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Yet another example of the complete lack of communication between TJ and the artists. I was never informed of when he intended to actually put them into retirement mode, much less two months before I wished them to go.

Well if it was just a miscommunication, hopefully that means it can be rectified. :-) I'd be thrilled to get six more chances for my recalcitrant stone-frill pair to produce a frill.

 

Honestly, it would be very easy for this to have been a simple miscommunication with no malice intended by either party... all it would require would have been TJ not happening to have read any of the threads in which Lyth assured us we'd have till June. He can't be expected to read every thread. Now he knows and hopefully we can have a short reprieve! *keeps fingers crossed*

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.....

Well now I'm totally baffled. I thought those were the Valentines.

I think I'm going to go find a corner now and beat myself with an AP book, like I SHOULD be doing xd.png

 

But thank you for straightening that out smile.gif

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Love the new layout.

But frills means they be gone from the cave but still can be found in the ap? or no ap either?

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I agree on both issues. I, personally, don't think the spriters should have the option to pull sprites, because it seems to me like the sprites are donations. And people don't go around donating things and then snatching them back.

 

And I also think it's ridiculous to expect TJ to obey the demands of spriters about retirement dates.

 

It's TJ's site, not the spriters'. He should be able to run it the way he wants to.

The problem with this is that whether or not they SHOULD, currently, they DO. TJ allowed them to retain copyright, which means they could legally file a C&D to get him to take them down. (Though I find it unlikely a court would actually take this case, technically they would be in the right to do so)

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Love the new layout.

But frills means they be gone from the cave but still can be found in the ap? or no ap either?

They may be found (very very rarely, as I doubt many people will be risking it or willing to trade) be found in the AP for the next ~7 days or so, but since they can no longer be bred, after that no, there will be none in the AP. There is now no way to generate a Frill egg.

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I'm a huge fan of this idea- Is this the only dragon/sprite Lyth has helped make? (I really don't pay attention enough, I know). If it's not, whose to say Lyth won't get touchy feely about the next sprite/dragon they've helped create?

 

A contract would definitely put a stop to it, and give us dragonkeepers a little security.

You talk like I'm a child.

 

You want security from a bunch of volunteers? You treat them with a little more respect than saying I'm "touchy feely" about the camel's back breaking. The breed is dead because people hated them. Those who liked them didn't bother to stand up and defend them when they were under fire, not until the end of March when I made the announcement. I requested their retirement because the actions of the users showed me it was the right thing to do.

 

You'll have to excuse me for requesting removal of something that caused so much offense, grief and hatred. The other breeds I've done are fine enough, they're not loathed by the majority as the frills were.

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Frankly, you've been acting like a child.

 

Quit trying to pin this on us.

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As sad and frustrated as I get when spriters pull their art, I think it's their right to do so. I'm a writer, and I reserve the right to pull down any of my work that I've posted online, whether on LJ, fanfiction.net, or what have you. No matter how "immature" it might seem or how angry I make some people.

 

I think people need to relax and be happy about the frills they have on their scrolls, kind of like the old pinks. And just wanna also point out that I never was able to catch an 09 Valentine, so for you newbies or peeps who don't have frills, it's a sad thing, but you'll get over it lol

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Frills were only "loathed" due to sharing an egg description with several other breeds, especially when one of those breeds is the skywings, necessary to create Blunas. I don't think very many people ever disliked frills due to their sprite. If frills had had their own egg description, they'd have been regarded just like any other common: some people would have loved them, some would have hated them, most would have liked them or been indifferent. There wouldn't have been much "frill hate" just as you don't see much "waterwalker hate" or "mint hate" or "daydream hate".

 

And I know you (Lythiaren) weren't the one who chose the egg description. I'm just saying, when it comes down to it, people that hated them hated them for the egg description, not for the sprite itself.

 

I really wish TJ could have been persuaded to change the egg description for the frills, and then we could have seen what impact that had on how people felt about them. I really think it would have helped a great deal.

Edited by Renorei

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Frankly, you've been acting like a child.

 

Quit trying to pin this on us.

Then think what you will. I'm becoming more and more satisfied with TJ's decision as I see more people showing their true colours on the issue.

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Oh my...please play nice. There is no need to get angry over the entire Frill thing. Maybe in good time Lythiaren would consider allowing us to collect them again.

 

Yes, I am a bit upset that they are gone but such be life, you have respect Lythiaren choice...I just hope that maybe she will reconsider in the future and allow us to collect them again.

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I'm becoming more and more satisfied with TJ's decision as I see more people showing their true colours on the issue.

That they didn't actually want them taken away?

dry.gif

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Frankly, I don't think she was acting childish at all. As a writer, and artist, you guys don't know the many tears I've shed about friends promising to help me work on my books/art, and then using all sort of stupid excuses to not do it, and I'm 25!

 

I know how much it hurts when you put hard work, and passion in something, to have it bashed.

 

Personally, I'm working on a few concepts myself, for DragCave. I want to keep the rights of MY CONCEPTS.

 

I might agree with TJ keeping the right to maintain the sprite. But the concept is mine, and I can do as I wish with it. I don't only make these dragons for Dragcave. I might decide they make a neat dragon for a book, or whatever, and as the creator, I want to keep all the rights over it, to use it as I wish, aside from DragCave.

 

If I'm not going to keep the rights, I will simply put a stop to all my sketches (which might not bother anyone). But like me, many good spriters might decide to leave, and then, the cave should be at a lack of artists willing to collaborate.

 

The site is great because people work for free, and collaborate into making it great.

 

But many selfish users have proven no respect, or second thought for spriters who work for free, giving this collaborations (these are NOT donations) to the site.

 

There are some dragons I might not like, and therefore, I don't hoard them. But I don't go around the site making a huge drama, because I don't like a dragon.

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Those who liked them didn't bother to stand up and defend them when they were under fire, not until the end of March when I made the announcement.

That just isn't true.

 

It is true that I, myself, did not stand up for frills when they were being insulted. I regret this. :-( All I can say in my defense is that I was completely off the forums for four months, and that when I did return (not long before this happened) many of the offensive comments seem to have been said in long threads that I never read through.

 

However, despite this personal failure on my part, it certainly is NOT true that nobody ELSE ever praised or defended the frills before March! When I searched at the time you first announced this, I easily found many examples of people on the forums singing the praises of frills and/or defending them from others who did not like them. Even on the thread that broke the camel's back there were some.

 

Would you make a deal with me? *hopeful look* If I can find caches of a certain number of forum posts praising frills with a date before your announcement about removing them, will you let us keep breeding them till the end of June after all?

 

...And, truly, I hope you can understand why some members here might be worried about what will happen to your other sprites without meaning to be disrespectful of you. No one USED to hate the frills (I remember when they first came out, how well-received they were.) So, what if some loud, obnoxious people came onto the forum and began insulting vines all of a sudden? Aaagh, it would destroy half my lines! Can I preemptively state for the record that I really love vines? *rueful grin*

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We are just going in a circle...Lythiaren, wants the sprites gone, some people hate it, some people love it...some blame her, others blame of the users.

 

What it all comes down too is that they are gone, and maybe (here hoping) Lythiaren will reconsider in the future at some point.

 

Spriters will come and go with the wind...one leaves another will come in. That is all there is too it...

 

Oh is their a list of all the spriters and what they did?

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As a writer, I am constantly attempting to sell or lease partial rights to my work, and even those who post it without compensating me usually have a contract to explain exactly which rights they're using. They get the right to use my work on their website/in their magazine and I retain the right to attempt to sell it again for reprints. I don't know where this concept comes from that selling the rights to post your work on DC necessarily takes all your rights away.

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I like the Spring skin, TJ, even a bit late it will be pretty. =)

 

dtwrites

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Then think what you will.  I'm becoming more and more satisfied with TJ's decision as I see more people showing their true colours on the issue.

Lyth, with all due respect, please step back, take a deep breath, and re-read this thread. You're having an instinctive reaction to a grand total of TWO people who are complaining about the actions you've taken here. In all likelihood, these are two people who really do not care whether frills stay or go. Taking them away six weeks early will not punish these two people anyway.

 

Meanwhile, there are DOZENS of posts on this thread by people who say they will miss frills, wish they could have caught or bred one more before they disappear, etc. Not to mention posts saying that they respect your decision even if they're unhappy about it.

 

You just can't keep letting a few critical voices outweigh all the positive ones this way. You're letting a few people force your hand into decisions. By reacting like this, all it would take would be a few clever trolls to manipulate you into doing something else.

 

I don't think you're a child and I do think you have the right to do what you want to with your art. It just alarms me to see you react so drastically to even TWO people expressing criticism, when so many others are expressing positive opinions, and when even the two complainers probably missed your note several pages ago that the sudden change in schedule wasn't your idea.

 

I wish you could just ignore the negative comments, but if not, I truly hope you can at least realize what a small minority they really are. And whatever you decide to do about frills, I hope it brings you some peace.

Edited by tjekan

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As a writer, I am constantly attempting to sell or lease partial rights to my work, and even those who post it without compensating me usually have a contract to explain exactly which rights they're using. They get the right to use my work on their website/in their magazine and I retain the right to attempt to sell it again for reprints. I don't know where this concept comes from that selling the rights to post your work on DC necessarily takes all your rights away.

 

This! Granting TJ the rights to use your sprites in perpetuity would not necessarily take away your own rights over your intellectual property, it just means that TJ would be able to continue to use your sprites if he likes.

 

My true colors is that I think once a dragon is in the cave, it should remain a part of the game. That means I (and all other players) don't deserve frills? What?

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no wait.. really? really? jeeze people... Lyth had her reasons. just move on. stop complaining and get on with your lives, really whats done is done

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