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More Detailed Trading Hub Rules

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If there is concern that having a long list of rules on the trading page would be cluttered, maybe there could be a link to a page with detailed rules? e.g.:

 

Quote

Describe what you’re offering and/or help others understand what types of offers you are looking for. If creating a public trade, your message must follow the rules.

 

That way the rules would be easy to find for anyone who is making a public trade and we would avoid unnecessary text cluttering the page when people who already know the rules want to make a trade. 

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10 hours ago, Kaini said:

IOUs can't be completed at all within the site's mechanics, which I assume is why they're not mentioned specifically in the rules. You can't do one on-site anyway... and elsewhere (such as the forums and discord) it's pretty explicitly disallowed. Since it's impossible on the site alone, I don't see a reason to put that rule there. If anything, updated the rules on the forum to also mention IOU talk is not permitted on the hub, either.

 

I really don't think the answer to 'we want specific rules on site' should be 'okay we'll do it, but off-site' you should be easily able to double check the rules without having to dig through a dozen faqs on the forums. The 'rules' already exist somewhere here on the forums, buried in some previous topic about the hub, people can't find them when they want to. 

 

10 hours ago, Kaini said:

Searching for a specific egg by code is not permitted. This violates the 'applicable to many people' rule. Yes this includes specific 2g thuweds and 2g SAs. If one person and one person alone has it, don't ask for it specifically. Try 'A 2g thuwed I don't have' or similar.

 

This doesn't mean word codes that don't exist yet - I say 'want some form of Kaini code' because it doesn't exist and isn't targeting anybody, and there are many variations. Now if 'Kaini' with perfect caps like that already exists and one person has it... again, no.

 

I disagree that these are different in regards to the rule. I get why word codes are different than 2g thuwed/SAs but, I don't think there's a difference in the wording of the actual rule we have. Word codes are rare in general, you're not gonna see two of the same word at the same time, at least for 4 and 5 letter codes. So in practice only one person will pick up any variant of a Kaini coded egg. (The odds are just so wildly stacked against there being two kaini eggs at the same time). Only one 2g from split thuwed is going to exist at any given time, only 1 egg coded kaini is going to exist at a given time. Only one person in both cases can have that egg, ergo, targeting one person. I don't think word code trades should be banned, for the record.

 

(Has anyone been banned for asking for specific 2g thuwed/SAs? Or are they protected through use of 'offers, x is auto'? Is it just that you can ask for specific eggs so long as you at least pretend you'll accept something else otherwise? Cause that's kinda how it feels.)

 

Also yeah I never understood why there wasn't a rules page. I mean, it's because its a single sentence so it would be a waste of bandwidth to dedicate a page to that, but if they were hopefully expanded there should just be a rules page.

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2 hours ago, Tinibree said:

 

I disagree that these are different in regards to the rule. I get why word codes are different than 2g thuwed/SAs but, I don't think there's a difference in the wording of the actual rule we have. Word codes are rare in general, you're not gonna see two of the same word at the same time, at least for 4 and 5 letter codes. So in practice only one person will pick up any variant of a Kaini coded egg. (The odds are just so wildly stacked against there being two kaini eggs at the same time). Only one 2g from split thuwed is going to exist at any given time, only 1 egg coded kaini is going to exist at a given time. Only one person in both cases can have that egg, ergo, targeting one person. I don't think word code trades should be banned, for the record.

 

 

There is a pretty big difference between 'this is rare' and 'only one specific person can possibly have what I'm asking for'. The current on-site phrasing says   your message should be applicable to many people using the trading hub, not just a specific person.  Notice it says *applicable*, and 'specific person'. Asking for a specific egg that already exists is breaking that, asking for a *rare* egg (code, rare cb, etc) is not. Just because it would be rather surprising to see two 4/5-letter 'kaini'-type codes in growing dragons at the same time doesn't mean it's *targeting* only one specific egg. 

 

I see how, in practice, those things might seem the same under the currently-vague rule. It is basically just splitting hairs, I admit that. But it *isn't* the same under the current rule, even if it seems like maybe it would be interpreted that way.

 

As far as IOUs, forum-mention, etc, at this point I feel like some general 'must be complete-able in-hub' would be helpful. But then people would say that excludes any forum communication at all, so a specific 'referencing off-site contact info is okay *if* a want is also given' might be good. Those two together should (should??) take care of both of those things. IOUs aren't allowed because they can't be completed on-site. Putting only 'contact on forum' isn't allowed because you need to actually put some sort of want (which really should be covered by the current Describe what you’re offering and/or help others understand what types of offers you are looking for.  but obviously not). 

 

 

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I think an updated set of rules would be a nice addition - provided they are easy to understand by all. From my days as a Mod on another site, I found that once we added in a clearer set of rules* with examples - some issues lessened (I say lessened because even after having public discussions and topics stating these clarifications, there were still some who didn't listen)

 

Here's a few examples of what I mean of clear rules with examples

 

1. Your wanted dragon(s) must apply to multiple people

- So asking for a 2g Albino from Albino x Black = yes. However, a 2g Aegis from SAlt Radiant Angel x SAlt Aegis = no (as only one person has the power to breed this*)

 

2. You can ask for codes, but not specific ones

-so asking for a 'riven' code of any capitalization/letter/number combo = yes

Asking specifically for "R1V3N" = no

 

3. You can NOT ask for or offer I.O.U's

- you must have the dragon(s) you intended to trade/offer on your scroll

 

Just a few examples, I know there are more and/or other ways to phrase these

 

*These rules had/have their own topic in the forums - they were not fully integrated into the actual help/game rules (though some changes were made to the actual help sections)

 

*I am aware the SAlt Aegis x SAlt Radiant Angel is impossible - they were just the first two SAlts on the same scroll I could think of

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4. You may not post links to other sites; this includes the forum.

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I'm confused as to why referencing the forum is bad? Why is the forum considered "off site"? 

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56 minutes ago, KRABBIT said:

I'm confused as to why referencing the forum is bad? Why is the forum considered "off site"? 

I think that might be because you don't need a Dragon Cave account to have a Dragon Cave forums account (and vice versa). Thus in a way, they are two different sites [plus comes the fact you can have a different username on both]

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21 hours ago, Keileon said:

 

On 8/4/2020 at 9:02 PM, olympe said:

@Keileon You can easily circumvent most restrictions regarding off-site links by using a group full of dragons that you name accordingly.

"Let's Discuss Trades"

"Forum Name is XXX"

"I'm XXX on [insert other site]"

"Always looking for..."

"2nd gen SA kin"

"2nd gen Prizes and Prizekin"

"Especially bronze Tinsel"

"ND is auto"

"Thanks for reading"

 

You... get the idea.

We really need a designated wishlist dragon...

That is very much not my point.

In a way, my response strengthens your point. We need sensible rules so people don't have to use loopholes (to rules that are hard to find, if at all) in order to use the hub to its fullest. ;) 

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