Make the trading hub really for trades only

[Tigerkralle]

So when i hit the report button in the trading hub i read this:
 

Quote

Only messages that do not help others understand what types of offers the trade’creator is looking for should be reported.

And for really reporting that trade offer i have to hit Report again. So the design for how tor report is very nicely done and i can't misclick and report someone who does not deserve it.

 

 

A simple "Offers!" or "Offers?" or "For free " to show you three random examples of what i can read from time to time in the trading hub is essential something that does not make me understand what this person wants from me.
Offers? Really we do have over 200 different breeds on this site and i really can't read the mind of the person offering something on the hub.

 

There is also the issue if this person is willing to accept eggs for the offered hatchling or hatchlings or gasp only a mixture of eggs and hatchlings.

 

My understanding is that a trade is an exchange of at least one item for another item. For free is not a trade that's a gift and can happen by simply abadon that egg or hatchling or multiple eggs or hatchlings.

 

I would love to have the clear rule that you need to narrow it down to something. If you mean for free you can put random egg/hatchling from abandon page instead of offers. Yes, we only have very little space for our wants in the offical trading hub, but we will reach the mark of 300 different kind of critters being an option for trading on Dragon Cave and a whatever, offers or any other kind of unspecific want is not making me understand and a waste of time for potential trading.

So can we please rule out that unspecific kind of offers and a sneaky for free if you gimme four hatchlings to improve my trophy level are not legal on the trading hub?

Edited June 6, 2020 by Tigerkralle

[DragonLady86]

This has been suggested before and shot down.

 

As a person that often doesn't know what I want, I have put offers before.  I may have something I am sort of looking for, but Ill take other things.  Many people do this because they want to find new things.  The actual list of things I need is pretty long and keeping my spreadsheet update is hard enough.  Ive gotten a number of good things from asking for "offers". If someone writes "offers", you put something that you think is a worthy trade.  Or ignore it, if it bothers you.

 

For free, usually means the person is hoping it will go to an active scroll, or its a bsa and they want it to go to someone that actually needs it. 

 

Both messages have, to my knowledge, been approved many times in various suggestion/feedback/help threads as something not to report as they are fine.  I know "offers" has for sure.

[olympe]

Well, I'm against this. Sure, "offers" doesn't tell you what someone is actively looking for, but maybe the poster isn't looking for anything specific and wants to be surprised.

And regarding free - personally, I usually ask for a "dummy egg" instead when I have something to give away. Both is fine, I think. What I hate, though, are trading messages like "Free! Offer random CB hatchling!"

[Fuzzbucket]

Absolutely. I have often put "offers" - usually when I have bred something good for a trade , something that I don't want myself, that was rejected. I want it to go to someone who really wants it, so I put "offers" - or more often, "surprise me" - and quite often that will give me an interesting new lineage to continue. It works the other way too - I bred a classy egg to post there to get what I did want - and was offered something good but not remotely what I had asked for - but the person offering obviously wanted it, so I tracked them down and gifted it. 

 

The trade hub makes for added fun. No support for this one. I WOULD like it not to allow blank want boxes though. Even when I request a repeat prescription on line, I have to put a message of some kind.

Edited June 6, 2020 by Fuzzbucket

[redwolf]

I'm sorry, I dont support it either. I've put "offers" lots of times. Because I dont know what kind of value someone would put on the egg(s)/hatchling(s) I'm offering. I've been trading off a lot of amalthean eggs cause I've got a project and keep getting hybrids instead of white or undine eggs. They're still very new. I dont know what someone would offer for one egg or a pair of eggs. I've gotten everything from very very common offers to very very rare offers. I'm not really looking for anything specific when I put "offers" in my wants. I want to see what that egg is worth to other people. Its like a mystery box, and I love all the offers I get, even if I dont accept the offer. 

 

If there's something specific I want, I include that of course. But I dont think putting offers in the wants page is a bad thing. I'm surely not the only one who puts it in there looking for a surprise. I think, as someone looking to make an offer, seeing "offers" in the wants section should be less about what you think the person wants and more about what are you willing to give them in exchange for that egg? How badly do you want it? What is its worth to you? Then make an offer accordingly. 

Edited June 6, 2020 by redwolf
clarification

[HeatherMarie]

Saying that 'offers' and 'free' and such are not helping understand what they want, and thus should be allowed, is kinda hairsplitting and subjective. I believe a mod once said that 'offers' *does* show people what they want: They want offers! I've put 'offers' before for things when I really didn't know what they were worth but was hoping to trade it and maybe get something interesting. As mentioned already, many people's want-list or completion-list is huge, some users have less than half of the breeds available. It's much better/easier to just ask for offers instead of trying to fit tons of breed-names or random breed-abbreviations into that small box. (And really, I've seen people try to squish as many breeds as possible into that box, leaving out spaces and using strange abbreviations, I'd say that makes it *harder* to understand what they want!) 

 

From the many other trade suggestions/questions/etc, I've gotten the impression that a lot of these threads are more 'this is what *I* don't like and it should change' rather than 'this is an actual flaw that needs to be dealt with'. No offense to you specifically, it just seems that happens a lot. If you don't want to guess/contemplate what to offer on an 'offers' trade, skip it. Ignore it. The same way others might ignore any 'prize' wants because they don't have a prize or don't want to try to figure out exactly what prize the trader wants. 

 

Also, you say 'My understanding is that a trade is an exchange of at least one item for another item. For free is not a trade that's a gift and can happen by simply abadon that egg or hatchling or multiple eggs or hatchlings.'  

Your understanding is correct. Your interpretation of it is not. A trade *is* exactly what that first sentence says... But it's perfectly acceptable if one of those items are random. Trader puts forth an item and says 'free', offerer offers a random egg, the trade is made trading one item for another item. Just because the trader wasn't specific in their 'price' doesn't invalidate the *trade* that happened. 

 

[osmarks]

I'm pretty against this. "Offers" can be frustrating, but also can allow for interesting trades neither party might not have thought of but which are mutually beneficial, and the trade hub offers a somewhat more controlled way to distribute free things than just dumping them into the AP with everything else.

[Tears in Rain]

Among the things mentioned, what I'd like to see reduced somehow (through being against the rules/reportable or whatever) is the "Free for X" format implying an actual trade requirement but disguised as a freebie. I understand "Free for a dummy/random AP egg"--but "Free for hatchlings", "Free for new release egg", "Free for any gold"? Come on  That's not free.

 

Other than that, nope, I wouldn't like to see these formats banned! Gift trades in the Hub are cool (I also don't think that tossing the egg intended for gifting to the AP, as suggested above, is a proper alternative to gifting through a trade: ppl treat the AP as a random pile of eggs that were gotten rid of, whereas the Hub is more personalized, and chances are higher that whoever goes to the AP to grab a dummy and offer at one's particular trade will actually need the dragon in question and aims for it specifically. There's also the gifter's and giftee's names attached to the transaction and all; plus what if it's a free raffle kind of trade? what if the gifter wants to choose a giftee meeting some criteria? So yeah, more personalized and I get why a lot of gifters would prefer it; hope this makes sense). And "offers" is quite self-explanatory: it means that the trader is willing to entertain offers. If I wanna try my luck I'll offer; if I'd rather not bother I'll go elsewhere to find a trade with more specifications. 

Btw I'm saying this as someone who looooooves precision in these matters, most of the time I do exact lists, groups with wishlists and all that jazz  It's just that...not everyone is like me and others might want surprises or more unexpected exchanges, and that's cool too.

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Tears in Rain

[Jazeki]

I think @Tears in Rain summoned up my thoughts on this suggestion. The "free for a specific egg/hatchling/breed" posts are about the only ones that bother me.

 

Sometimes, if I have an especially rare thing, I'll ask for offers to see what people might think it's worth. I don't think people should be penalized for not knowing what to ask for in exchange.

 

I also support @Fuzzbucket's suggestion to make it harder to have blank trades.

 

 

Edited June 7, 2020 by Jazeki
Wording

[Fuzzbucket]

Maybe just ban the word Free ? After all, if you post "Any random egg" that more or less says the same thing.

[Tigerkralle]

I see it's too hard to specify what people want and a whatever is fine for them.

 

Banning the for free kind of trades could be the compromise.

[Kaini]

Quote

From the many other trade suggestions/questions/etc, I've gotten the impression that a lot of these threads are more 'this is what *I* don't like and it should change' rather than 'this is an actual flaw that needs to be dealt with'. No offense to you specifically, it just seems that happens a lot. If you don't want to guess/contemplate what to offer on an 'offers' trade, skip it. Ignore it. The same way others might ignore any 'prize' wants because they don't have a prize or don't want to try to figure out exactly what prize the trader wants. 

 

Kinda have to agree.

 

I simply ask for 'offers!' quite a bit. Sometimes I don't really know what I want! But I want to see what people have got, and I'll settle on something.

 

'Offers' still lets people know what you're looking for, it's just broad, and if that bothers you, simply don't interact with those trades. But I definitely don't think it's a flaw to be dealt with on the site. Just because it's not worded to your preference... doesn't mean we should punish others for it.

 

Same with the 'free' wording. I have no idea why this has gotten to be such a contentious conversation, but literally all that means is the same as 'offer anything'. That they'll accept anything. 'Free for x' just means 'I'm looking for x'. Again, not a fan of the wording because it sounds tricky to you? Just don't trade with them. Yes, to me it would make more sense if they just abandoned it if someone wanted it to be 'free', and I wouldn't use the wording personally - but since it lets me know what they're wanting (anything!) I don't see a problem with it and am definitely against disallowing it or punishing people for it.

 

Just because it's not your preferred wording... again, just don't interact with those trades. They technically fall within the rules, aren't spam or crass language. I don't see, from a standpoint of operating the site, why it should be disallowed. The only reasoning I've seen is basically 'I don't like it'. Which again I... don't and wouldn't use it either, but... it's fine.

Edited June 8, 2020 by Kaini

[TJ09]

16 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Maybe just ban the word Free ? After all, if you post "Any random egg" that more or less says the same thing.

 

It really doesn't make sense to me to police specific wording just because it's not the most pedantically correct phrasing. It seems pretty clear that everyone in this thread understands what something like "free for hatchlings" means (offer hatchlings), so those trades are still conveying what it is they want.

 

[FoxintheBox4]

I have all dragons there are in the game (soon done with this new release too) - 10 pairs of each, all unbreedables, specials, frozen stages of hatchlings etc.  

I am bored with the game to oblivion by now so this is my reasoning for putting up things like  "just offer a dummy" I will probably abandon it or kill it at the end so I really don't care what is offered and don't know what to ask for - I have everything after all.

[Tigerkralle]

Well then my understanding of the word for free is flawed. If i need to give something back when it is for free i feel that's a scam.
 

I understand that the situation which has established for the trading hub is okay and i will ignore the hub like you all demand. One less person for fresh blood.

 

I accept that i am wrong and will no longer use this feature of DC. That is my own personal way to play and please let me live my live as i will continue to let you live with the hub.

 

[Tears in Rain]

1 hour ago, Tigerkralle said:

Well then my understanding of the word for free is flawed. If i need to give something back when it is for free i feel that's a scam.

Yeah, I have to agree with this one for most cases.

 

Tho if the option of banning "free" mentioned above were to be done through adding a filter, like "no word FREE allowed in trade description" (so ppl can post, say, "Offer a dummy" but not "free for any dummy"), I could see potential confusion for phrases that could fall under it but don't have anything to do with freebies and would still end up being filtered out of trade creation, like, idk, "Have X, want this and that hatchie for freezing" or what have you. "Have [2 eggs], want [some single egg] in return. Please make sure you have free space!", oops, why is the site not letting me create this trade?  Unless it's clearly stated somewhere in the rules, it can be confusing. On the other hand, avoiding an automatic filter thingie and relying on reports and moderation would increase the load on the Hub and mods in this respect. *shrugs* Idk!

 

"Free for X" does make me understand that X is what the user wants, but it's a sort of trickery, still. "Free" is an attention grab, especially with search filters in place: people are attracted to the trade and the item, only to find out that something (specific and often sought after!) is actually needed in return. It's frustrating and also clogs the trade queue. So I do find that restricting this wording in *some* way, when the trade isn't an actual freebie for a dummy, could be reasonable.

 

 

Anyway, Tigerkralle, dude/tte, I don't think anyone here is demanding that you, or anyone else in particular, leave the Hub! It's more about ignoring the "offer" or "free" trades that pop up there and moving on...just like anyone else could do and just like what happens with any other sort of trade that doesn't suit one's fancy at the given moment, you know? If you don't like or need Pillow dragons, you don't offer on trades with Pillow dragons and go on, if you don't like trades that are too vague, you don't offer on them and go on. If the dragon traded, or the trade conditions, aren't of my interest, I go ahead and look for other trades instead, or make my own--that's kinda what the Trading Hub is about  

 

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Tears in Rain

[Fuzzbucket]

1 hour ago, Tigerkralle said:

Well then my understanding of the word for free is flawed. If i need to give something back when it is for free i feel that's a scam.
 

I understand that the situation which has established for the trading hub is okay and i will ignore the hub like you all demand. One less person for fresh blood.

 

I accept that i am wrong and will no longer use this feature of DC. That is my own personal way to play and please let me live my live as i will continue to let you live with the hub.

 

I really don't see why you feel a need to avoid it. Not one person has suggested you ignore the hub, only that you ignore trades you don't like the wording of.

 

Can you not just ignore those trades that have words you don't like in them ? As I ignore ones that ask for CB golds for a z-code.... Or ask for "any 4 CB hatchlings" when that would take me long enough to collect that their egg will have hatched....

[PrincessLucy]

I am easily annoyed at those "free" ones, when you offer something, and you are turned down. 

 

Free is free. Don't turn down an offer; just pick an offer, either randomly, or the first one, and the system will let us know that someone else's offer was picked.

 

I usually put down "hatchling" or "lower-timed hatchling". That means, to me, that I am picking the first hatchling offer that works (as in they are not egg-locked), or the lowest timed hatchling offer, if I haven't caught the first offer coming in.

 

Other times, I am specific about what I want, but often accept different offers.

 

I wish that we had more room in the have/want box.

[ShorahNagi]

If I know I need something specific - I ask for it (ex. Want: 2nd gen. Frill from frill x aria).

 

If I don't need anything, but still want to trade, I just ask for offers to see what people are willing to give (ex. Just offer any egg). Most of the time, I end up with something interesting. 

 

I'm with others on seeing no real need to change how the trade hub works (though I will admit, I would LOVE a more public version of TJ's "take an egg, leave an egg" page - as opposed to posting a link in the forum or just tossing them to the AP)

[w0rmg0d]

"i am not sure what i want (or don't have space to describe it, or actively want to be surprised, or don't care what i get), so make me an offer" is still a description of what the person expects, and a trade for a random mystery offer is still "really" a trade.

 

i feel like you are suggesting a rule just to impose your personal preference/way of doing things onto everyone else, and i don't like it. if you don't like trades that say "offers" or "free" or whatever, you can scroll past them.

Edited June 10, 2020 by w0rmg0d
clarification

[FoxintheBox4]

Many players also do raffles and ask for a dummy egg in order to join them - so the offered egg is basically  'FREE'  you just need to put an egg to join in the raffle for a chance of getting the 'free' egg.   

So many of these things are going on on Discord so you maybe see those in trading hub, but don't know that even if it's free there are like 50+ offers on it and only 1 person will get it.

[bloodyneptune]

On 6/8/2020 at 5:27 AM, FoxintheBox said:

I have all dragons there are in the game (soon done with this new release too) - 10 pairs of each, all unbreedables, specials, frozen stages of hatchlings etc.  

I am bored with the game to oblivion by now so this is my reasoning for putting up things like  "just offer a dummy" I will probably abandon it or kill it at the end so I really don't care what is offered and don't know what to ask for - I have everything after all.

Have you considered making lineages? Cool patterns, Hearts, lyric lineages etc? Or collecting things like Spriters Alts 2gs/3gs? Once I got into that I found a whooole new world of stuff to do xD

 

On 6/8/2020 at 10:58 AM, Tigerkralle said:

Well then my understanding of the word for free is flawed. If i need to give something back when it is for free i feel that's a scam.
 

I understand that the situation which has established for the trading hub is okay and i will ignore the hub like you all demand. One less person for fresh blood.

 

I accept that i am wrong and will no longer use this feature of DC. That is my own personal way to play and please let me live my live as i will continue to let you live with the hub.

 

 

I dont really think its a scam if it says "free for X" because...I mean I can see its not free, it may say the word 'free' but Id have to offer hatchlings on the trade to get it. If it were free, I wouldn't have to do that. Id have to somehow not understand that I was giving them hatchlings in exchange for their thing. I think its just a misguided way to make a trade look more attractive. But you know that its not free if you have to give them something in exchange for it, so I dont know how someone would get scammed if you have to willingly offer them something in exchange.

 

 

Edited June 11, 2020 by bloodyneptune

[Keileon]

I've always been annoyed by the "free for good offer"/"free for hatchlings" trades because it feels like false advertising, but seeing as false advertising is also not against Hub rules I've given up on hoping for something to be done about it.

 

As for the actual suggestions-- this is something that would have to be done via manual moderation, not a word filter, as there are too many contexts that would use the word "free" and word filters don't understand context. Actually free trades, a code that says "free", talking about free space, etc. I wouldn't support filtering it, as much as I hate the "free but not actually free" trades.

[OMGitsKairi]

As others have said, I am against not allowing users to put "offers" in their trades to describe what they want. I do this as well, because usually I don't care what people offer as long as it's not inbred. I've been on this site a very long time and often there is nothing specific that I am looking for.

 

However, I do support disallowing "free for CB hatchling!" posts. Because unless you just request a dummy egg, it's not free.

 

Ideally I would like to see the ability to post one-way transfers on the trading page, for users who really want to simply give things to others. 

[tjekan]

On 6/8/2020 at 9:58 AM, Tigerkralle said:

I understand that the situation which has established for the trading hub is okay and i will ignore the hub like you all demand. One less person for fresh blood.

 

 

You don't have to ignore the whole hub. Just ignore the offers that annoy you. If they're too vague, don't offer. If they're phrased in weird ways like "free for a CB hatchling" instead of "Want a CB hatchling," don't offer. There's one person who goes around the hub posting things in all caps like "I ONLY WANT A GOLD EGG YOU BETTER NOT OFFER ME ANYTHING BUT A GOLD EGG." I don't offer on those trades because I find them annoying. To each our own.

 

It's a free market. Just offer on the trades you like.

 

Besides, even if they're exactingly specific about what they want, they may still not take your offer. Sometimes another person offers first, or offers the same thing but it's lower-time, or offers two of whatever they asked for, or offers something completely different but it's so great they take it anyway. You're not guaranteed of a trade even if you offer exactly what they asked for. It's inherently random.

Edited June 14, 2020 by tjekan