Let's Talk Description Approval

[Fuzzbucket]

11 hours ago, BrazenChase said:

I see. If that's the case, then the argument about inappropriate content and DC being completely taken down as a result is... Kind of moot.

 

No - because to see pending descriptions you need to have an account. Guests (and bots) cannot see them.

 

8 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

I'm sorry, but I must say it really bugs me when people post suggestions and go 'well this other petsite does it so DC should too!!!' .... This is *not* Flight Rising, or any other petsite. This is DragonCave, and things might be done differently here but that doesn't automatically mean the other way is better. Sorry, it's just a pet peeve of mine because a lot of people come into Suggestions with an intention of making DC more like other sites, when a lot of us like DC *because* it isn't like other sites. 

 

After reading Kaini's post I'd really prefer *dedicated description mods* rather then anything automatic. Honestly I don't really see how an automatic system would be much better for mods if there are already tons of spam descriptions... They'll just constantly be checking reports on descriptions instead of approving descriptions. And really, I don't trust users-in-general to handle automatic descriptions well, whether it be trusting that users *will* report inappropriate things or trusting that users *won't* gather tons of friends to 'approve' their inappropriate things. 

 

I'm with Heather - again. IF it needs fixing, description mods are surely the way to go.

 

3 hours ago, platedlizard said:

An automatic filter would also catch links and random spam, as well as bad words, bad spelling and poor grammar. Spam filters are a thing, and it's not something we need to waste mod resources on when a program will do just as well. So I don't really accept "spam" as an argument when spam is something that can be easily filtered automatically, and many other sites with a lot more traffic do it easily.

 

It wouldn't catch total spam. Things like "Me has a purple dragon yeah yeah purple is my fave." Or if you't OK with that - "lorem ipsum etc" As for spelling - that is less of an issue. I actually hate being forced to use US spelling, but also at least one person here has a wonderful description of a dragon who cannot spell. Losing that would have been a shame.

 

53 minutes ago, Shadowdrake said:

Someone recently mentioned they wrote a description and had it unexpectedly approved in half a day without contacting a mod or any other workaround, while others have been and are still waiting months to get theirs answered, which suggests that maybe the order of descriptions appearing  to mods needs to be reworked as well.

 

Also, I think an overly strict emphasis on Dragon Cave lore is a rather detrimental thing to both writers and modders, and that perhaps mods should have a guideline between themselves on what to say regarding rejects bc I've heard of quite a few mod rejects that were either completely blank or vague to the point of being useless (i.e. one mod reject literally being "not adhering to description rules" which is entirely unconstructive). I imagine it'd be a lot less stressful to decide to approve or not if you didn't have to go back and re-read the encyclopedia every time a description went in-depth into their headcanons of DC.

 

I am told mods have many ways to choose what order pending ones appear in, so I don't think that is necessarily an issue. Expecting mods to write long explanations of "why" would lengthen the list even more. Most again the rules ones I've seen when reviewing have been things like switching on the light; taking the train, writing in the first person... no encyclopaedia needed.

[olympe]

32 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

I'm with Heather - again. IF it needs fixing, description mods are surely the way to go.

Are you and at least 5 friends volunteering? Because it takes a lot of time and effort to approve the thousands of descriptions out there.

 

33 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

It wouldn't catch total spam. Things like "Me has a purple dragon yeah yeah purple is my fave." Or if you't OK with that - "lorem ipsum etc" As for spelling - that is less of an issue. I actually hate being forced to use US spelling, but also at least one person here has a wonderful description of a dragon who cannot spell. Losing that would have been a shame.

That's one of the cases where a report button will do the trick.

[Fuzzbucket]

11 minutes ago, olympe said:

Are you and at least 5 friends volunteering? Because it takes a lot of time and effort to approve the thousands of descriptions out there.

 

That's one of the cases where a report button will do the trick.

 

Actually I would. But I don't have the nerve to volunteer anyone else.

 

But the report button only works one a description is up there You can't actually use it when reviewing. I can get to it by using the review page to go to the derg in question when I have pending turned on - but that's rather convoluted and adds time.

 

And the first one that came up when I went to review this morning is TOTAL spam, by the way - I have rejected, but I can't instantly "report" it.

Edited June 17, 2019 by Fuzzbucket

[olympe]

And that's where the community approval comes in. Maybe even add a report button for the very obvious cases for those people looking at pending descriptions. I think such a report button could easily add a couple of categories to tipp off the mods what's going on - like SPAM, offsite link, inappropriate content, wrong language or doesn't follow description guidelines.

[BrazenChase]

 

12 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

I'm sorry, but I must say it really bugs me when people post suggestions and go 'well this other petsite does it so DC should too!!!' .... This is *not* Flight Rising, or any other petsite. This is DragonCave, and things might be done differently here but that doesn't automatically mean the other way is better. Sorry, it's just a pet peeve of mine because a lot of people come into Suggestions with an intention of making DC more like other sites, when a lot of us like DC *because* it isn't like other sites. 

 

After reading Kaini's post I'd really prefer *dedicated description mods* rather then anything automatic. Honestly I don't really see how an automatic system would be much better for mods if there are already tons of spam descriptions... They'll just constantly be checking reports on descriptions instead of approving descriptions. And really, I don't trust users-in-general to handle automatic descriptions well, whether it be trusting that users *will* report inappropriate things or trusting that users *won't* gather tons of friends to 'approve' their inappropriate things. 

All I did was give working examples of what I am suggesting to lend credibility to the points I am making. Please don't put words in my mouth, or assume you know my intention. I left Flight Rising because it was too high maintenance of a playstyle to sustain in a way that was fun for me. I'm not trying to make DC more like it, but I am pointing out that this suggestion can work, and has worked on other websites with large playerbases without any serious consequences.

5 hours ago, Shadowdrake said:

Someone recently mentioned they wrote a description and had it unexpectedly approved in half a day without contacting a mod or any other workaround, while others have been and are still waiting months to get theirs answered, which suggests that maybe the order of descriptions appearing  to mods needs to be reworked as well.

 

Also, I think an overly strict emphasis on Dragon Cave lore is a rather detrimental thing to both writers and modders, and that perhaps mods should have a guideline between themselves on what to say regarding rejects bc I've heard of quite a few mod rejects that were either completely blank or vague to the point of being useless (i.e. one mod reject literally being "not adhering to description rules" which is entirely unconstructive). I imagine it'd be a lot less stressful to decide to approve or not if you didn't have to go back and re-read the encyclopedia every time a description went in-depth into their headcanons of DC.

I agree with this as well. That discrepancy isn't really fair to those who have been waiting a long time, and would surely be frustrating to hear. Like waiting in a long line for hours, and then seeing someone walk in, and walk up, get service, and leave before you've even moved. Not fair, and not fun.

 

The heavily policing on what is "good enough" is also troubling to me. This isn't a roleplay, and this isn't English class. DC has users from all over the world, and from all kidns of age groups. Not everyone here is a 2030something. We have really young members too, whose ideas you might call stupid or nonsense but... They're just having some harmless fun. Why does it affect you so much that someone else has given their dragon a description you think is silly or don't like? They didn't write it for you, and if you don't like it there are hundreds of thousands of other pages on the website you can navigate away to. Why do we need to police everything so harshly? Let people have fun for the love of GoN.

4 hours ago, blah said:

I gave up describing dragons ages ago for this reason. For me it just sucks the fun right out of it. I sincerely doubt that many people would gather ten friends, have them review descriptions until all ten of them have come across theirs, count on no one else seeing and rejecting it - just to have a spammy description approved.

I've seen this same sentiment repeated many times, and even felt it myself. That is why I am making this thread.

4 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

No - because to see pending descriptions you need to have an account. Guests (and bots) cannot see them.

 

 

I'm with Heather - again. IF it needs fixing, description mods are surely the way to go.

 

 

It wouldn't catch total spam. Things like "Me has a purple dragon yeah yeah purple is my fave." Or if you't OK with that - "lorem ipsum etc" As for spelling - that is less of an issue. I actually hate being forced to use US spelling, but also at least one person here has a wonderful description of a dragon who cannot spell. Losing that would have been a shame.

 

 

I am told mods have many ways to choose what order pending ones appear in, so I don't think that is necessarily an issue. Expecting mods to write long explanations of "why" would lengthen the list even more. Most again the rules ones I've seen when reviewing have been things like switching on the light; taking the train, writing in the first person... no encyclopaedia needed.

Other users have pointed out that no, DC will not be nuked from orbit if someone posts an objectionable description and that there are in fact legal protections from that. So yes, it is moot. Your catastrophe scenario will not happen. 

 

As for the rest of this, see my above response to Shadowdrake. 

3 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

Actually I would. But I don't have the nerve to volunteer anyone else.

 

But the report button only works one a description is up there You can't actually use it when reviewing. I can get to it by using the review page to go to the derg in question when I have pending turned on - but that's rather convoluted and adds time.

 

And the first one that came up when I went to review this morning is TOTAL spam, by the way - I have rejected, but I can't instantly "report" it.

Cool, then when we rework this feature how about we add a report button to that part? Stop looking for problems and start looking for solutions. Unless of course you just came here to dig in your heels instead of try and be constructive in any way.

[Fuzzbucket]

44 minutes ago, BrazenChase said:

Cool, then when we rework this feature how about we add a report button to that part? Stop looking for problems and start looking for solutions. Unless of course you just came here to dig in your heels instead of try and be constructive in any way.

 

No - I simply  very much favour description mods. But I was also pointing out that I suspect most people who review a) don't know you CAN go over to view the dragon if it needs a report (or indeed that doing that will call up a report button) and b) couldn't be bothered anyway. I'm quite happy with a report button being added, but I still think description mods are the way to go. Not least for consistency in application.

 

I like the way you say "when we rework this." That actually isn't up to us.

[JavaTigress]

Honestly... I have just had to learn to be patient. Yes, it is sad to see your descrips pending for months at a time. 

I hate to complain because I KNOW there is often a massive pile of descrips waiting for our mods' attention.

Thing is... I enjoy doing them enough that for me , it is worth it.

 

At said, I can say I would be happy to see our system for getting them through improved. As it is, I KNOW the thing puts a lot of pressure on our mods, and I think more mods... including some whose sole responsibility was to address descrip concerns... might be beneficial. I could also see Fuzz's idea of a filter of some kind and sanctions against using descrips for those that abuse it too often ( we already do the second for names and for 'wants' in the trading hub, for example, so it CAN be done.) I could also see the idea of user 'accepts' pushing a descrip up the line? MIGHT give people more incentive to go on there and review. I am not SURE how I feel about too many 'recjects' wiping a descrip and making you do over. That is SIMPLY because sometimes people reject without giving you ANY reason why... and if you had an unpopular user, I could see people rejecting and wiping their stuff purely because they could. Maybe too many rejects  would also call a mods' attention? Weed out some of the worst ones THAT way? While avoiding the possibility for abuse with it?

Edited June 17, 2019 by JavaTigress

[BrazenChase]

34 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

No - I simply  very much favour description mods. But I was also pointing out that I suspect most people who review a) don't know you CAN go over to view the dragon if it needs a report (or indeed that doing that will call up a report button) and b) couldn't be bothered anyway. I'm quite happy with a report button being added, but I still think description mods are the way to go. Not least for consistency in application.

 

I like the way you say "when we rework this." That actually isn't up to us.

Were discussing reworking it. But if you really want to nitpick everything I am saying that badly, then I clearly cannot stop you from doing so. 

 

The system is clearly not working for the users and mods involved, but you're determined to dig your heels in and insist it's fine regardless of who says what. Adding more mods isn't a solution for a fundamentally resource intensive system, it's a bandaid. 

[JavaTigress]

44 minutes ago, BrazenChase said:

Were discussing reworking it. But if you really want to nitpick everything I am saying that badly, then I clearly cannot stop you from doing so. 

 

The system is clearly not working for the users and mods involved, but you're determined to dig your heels in and insist it's fine regardless of who says what. Adding more mods isn't a solution for a fundamentally resource intensive system, it's a bandaid. 

WELL, and Fuzz is right in that any ideas we come up with are going to have to get passed TJ's approval. ALWAYS an 'if'.

 

That being said, I DO agree with you on improvement being possible here.  We just need to know what TJ is WILLING to change. 

Edited June 17, 2019 by JavaTigress

[Sazandora]

I don't do descriptions all that often, I'm fine with their approval/rejection taking months -- my reason for not doing them all that much because I'm not confident enough, but that's just a personal issue. But just because it takes so long doesn't mean I want it to take so long. The 10 approvals/rejections needed for an automatic decision sounds quite good to me. I sometimes like to review pending descriptions for fun, and an automated system could help me feel like all these approvals/rejections I dish out could actually mean something. But designated description moderators also seems like a good idea to me -- really, I'd take almost anything to help clear that huge backlog of descriptions waiting to be judged.

[osmarks]

I don't do descriptions much because creativity is hard more than anything else, but the long waits certainly are annoying.

 

If dragons keep getting described at the same rate but nothing is done to get moderation to go faster, there will inevitably be a backlog which gets longer and longer. So I think something has to be done.

 

My favourite idea so far is showing it after 10 approvals and offering a report button, plus some limited automatic filtering, plus bans for people who just spam loads. It wouldn't catch things as fast as moderators, presumably, but wouldn't have 8 months of backlog as long as enough users review the queue (maybe small shard rewards would incentivize that?).

 

Adding description moderators would be something, but it wouldn't really scale well and would still require lots of time-consuming human work.

 

[HeatherMarie]

7 hours ago, blah said:

I gave up describing dragons ages ago for this reason. For me it just sucks the fun right out of it. I sincerely doubt that many people would gather ten friends, have them review descriptions until all ten of them have come across theirs, count on no one else seeing and rejecting it - just to have a spammy description approved.

 

Were you around for the original Prize distribution, when it was based on users voting for tree decoration? 'Cause that's pretty much exactly what happened then. And given how many petty viewbombers we've had issues with (including an actual website dedicated to a viewbombing list!), I certainly don't think going out of their way to get a spam description approved is much of a stretch. 

 

 

8 hours ago, olympe said:

 

A user-approved system can be made to work if there are several checks in place.

• Picking up the idea from platedlizard, I think a filter would be a good idea in general, and should take care of the most obvious problems.
• A report button for user-approved descriptions. If a description gets tagged, it's probably a good idea to have a mod investigate.
  • If a mod investigates a description and approves it, the report button should go away to avoid multiple reports on the same description. Some of them might just toe the line too closely for some people's taste.
• Sanctions for abuse of the feature. Just block repeat offenders from describing their dragons. Especially if all they do is post spam or way too inappropriate content. (Or, if you want to be petty, turn the report action into a link to the ToS for those people...)

 

This sounds much better then the OP suggestions. *IF* all these steps were in place, an automatic filter for obvious spam, then requiring a certain number of user-accepts to approve, a report button (both after approval and during description reviewing!), and actual actions taken for repeat offenders... Okay, yeah, that sounds like it could work. Still unconvinced that's 'better' then simply adding a few dedicated description mods, but it's something I guess. 

[blah]

5 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

Were you around for the original Prize distribution, when it was based on users voting for tree decoration? 'Cause that's pretty much exactly what happened then. And given how many petty viewbombers we've had issues with (including an actual website dedicated to a viewbombing list!), I certainly don't think going out of their way to get a spam description approved is much of a stretch. 

 

I was... but there are ways around that. For example, make it so that a description needs a perfect record of 10 approvals and no rejections to be approved automatically and have them displayed in a random order. And I do think that winning an exclusive prize dragon motivates people a bit more than getting a description approved.

 

TJ has also tried in vain to find Description Mods before. It doesn't seem to be a sustainable system.

[Shadowdrake]

To put it another way regarding my previous comment on lore, part of the appeal of DC is the sheer amount of customization you have with collecting, naming and displaying dragons, and the fact that descriptions are so stringently policed goes against that. A lot of declined ones may break the description guidelines, but it's also discouraging to be sent back to the queue for minor grammatical errors--and potentially be declined again in another half year for an innocuous detail that wasn't even addressed the first time around. If someone has a playstyle where they actually want to flesh out and connect to their dragons this is a huge barrier against it. Plus, it makes people unwilling to update old descriptions because they are much more easily declined now that there's lore to follow when there used to be none at all.

 

 

1 hour ago, JavaTigress said:

We just need to know what TJ is WILLING to change. 

TJ almost never says anything in-thread except to shoot down things he will never make viable. It's more productive to discuss things without the consideration of what tj will or will not do because he certainly won't say "This sounds doable" when people have taken it to mean "I'm going to do it" despite that he has a history of not doing these hypotheticals.

 

2 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

That actually isn't up to us.

Okay? We're all aware of that but that doesn't stop *us* from thinking up a viable solution or five to rework the description system.

 

 

Anyway, regarding automated user approvals I've heard that users who approve or decline and match up with mod judgements have a higher weight on their decisions. Assuming this is actually solid and numerical and not "Oh I've seen these usernames a bunch, this is probably a good description", the approval level could be a points-based system instead of total votes with people who have good history and frequency judging descriptions having high point weight, newcomers or infrequent judgers having lower vote weight, and people who approve reported and punished descriptions having the lowest point weight.

 

 

 

Edit:

20 minutes ago, blah said:

For example, make it so that a description needs a perfect record of 10 approvals and no rejections to be approved automatically

That would actually be worse because people can troll simply by declining literally any and all descriptions, resetting them and possibly making people have to reread descriptions they thought they'd already approved. Also I think descriptions are currently already in random order.

 

 

Quote

@HeatherMarie 's quote

I certainly don't think going out of their way to get a spam description approved is much of a stretch. 

I do because even assuming we use the basic auto-10 votes, that involves

1) having at minimum 10 accounts

2) finding their descriptions in the randomized queue 10times

3) doing this quickly enough that other people can't see it to report and decline it

4) having a reason to have a spam description approved, despite the fact that descriptions are almost invisible *and* still reportable.

Edited June 17, 2019 by Shadowdrake

[RainDear]

50 minutes ago, blah said:

 

TJ has also tried in vain to find Description Mods before. It doesn't seem to be a sustainable system.

 

Considering that that was 5 years ago, TJ could certainly try again. There does seem to be some interest, now.

 

Up to now, though it does take some (sometimes a lot of) time to get descriptions approved, moderators have been able to squeeze enough time in even with their other duties to do it, so I do think dedicated description mods would be able to keep up with it, and much easier than the present mods with all their other duties.

 

Personally, I'm not against an automated system if it can be put together well enough to address present concerns.

 

English and US spelling are both supposed to be acceptable, but not everyone is aware of that. Many reviewers put corrections in the comments boxes to help the describers and moderators. Though some moderators have tried to make minor corrections to accept descriptions, some describers did not like for them to do so. Perhaps the rules could be rewritten and made more clear on some points.

[Fuzzbucket]

On 6/17/2019 at 3:32 PM, JavaTigress said:

At said, I can say I would be happy to see our system for getting them through improved. As it is, I KNOW the thing puts a lot of pressure on our mods, and I think more mods... including some whose sole responsibility was to address descrip concerns... might be beneficial. I could also see Fuzz's idea of a filter of some kind and sanctions against using descrips for those that abuse it too often ( we already do the second for names and for 'wants' in the trading hub, for example, so it CAN be done.) I could also see the idea of user 'accepts' pushing a descrip up the line? MIGHT give people more incentive to go on there and review. I am not SURE how I feel about too many 'recjects' wiping a descrip and making you do over. That is SIMPLY because sometimes people reject without giving you ANY reason why... and if you had an unpopular user, I could see people rejecting and wiping their stuff purely because they could. Maybe too many rejects  would also call a mods' attention? Weed out some of the worst ones THAT way? While avoiding the possibility for abuse with it?

 

This is critical actually. I have a reject on one of my pendings; it has a complaint about the meaning of a word. The dictionary says what I put is correct - but that incorrect reject could blow it for me.

 

On 6/17/2019 at 3:34 PM, BrazenChase said:

Were discussing reworking it. But if you really want to nitpick everything I am saying that badly, then I clearly cannot stop you from doing so. 

 

The system is clearly not working for the users and mods involved, but you're determined to dig your heels in and insist it's fine regardless of who says what. Adding more mods isn't a solution for a fundamentally resource intensive system, it's a bandaid. 

 

I'm not digging my heels in; I have absolutely NOT said it's fine, but I do think that some of the solutions suggested here are not OK. I just think descrip mods is the best solution. I'd love to see all my pending ones suddenly get approved, I really would. But I'd rather wait than see some kind of thing where random users can spoil it for other random users by rejecting "just because".

 

On 6/17/2019 at 4:49 PM, HeatherMarie said:

 

Were you around for the original Prize distribution, when it was based on users voting for tree decoration? 'Cause that's pretty much exactly what happened then. And given how many petty viewbombers we've had issues with (including an actual website dedicated to a viewbombing list!), I certainly don't think going out of their way to get a spam description approved is much of a stretch. 

 

This sounds much better then the OP suggestions. *IF* all these steps were in place, an automatic filter for obvious spam, then requiring a certain number of user-accepts to approve, a report button (both after approval and during description reviewing!), and actual actions taken for repeat offenders... Okay, yeah, that sounds like it could work. Still unconvinced that's 'better' then simply adding a few dedicated description mods, but it's something I guess. 

 

Agree - but I'd still prefer descrip mods. And that tree decoration thing was probably the worst thing that I ever lived through here (no wait, there was another, worse, but I don't want to go there...)

 

On 6/17/2019 at 4:58 PM, blah said:

 

I was... but there are ways around that. For example, make it so that a description needs a perfect record of 10 approvals and no rejections to be approved automatically and have them displayed in a random order. And I do think that winning an exclusive prize dragon motivates people a bit more than getting a description approved.

 

TJ has also tried in vain to find Description Mods before. It doesn't seem to be a sustainable system.

 

Really ? I never saw them "advertised for" or I would have volunteered. (I stand corrected. I missed that bit.)

 

 

On 6/17/2019 at 6:02 PM, raindear said:

 

Considering that that was 5 years ago, TJ could certainly try again. There does seem to be some interest, now.

 

English and US spelling are both supposed to be acceptable, but not everyone is aware of that. Many reviewers put corrections in the comments boxes to help the describers and moderators. Though some moderators have tried to make minor corrections to accept descriptions, some describers did not like for them to do so. Perhaps the rules could be rewritten and made more clear on some points.

 

It actually says only US,

 

https://dragcave.net/help/descriptions

 

Quote

English Only

Dragon Cave is entirely in English; to keep with this, descriptions not in American English will be rejected.

 

I have had the odd reject over that.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Fuzzbucket

[Qualeo]

1. I do kind of like this idea - sure there is potential for spam but in all honesty, I don't see freeing up some of the current limits as a bad thing really. If you have a censor filter in place for any bad words, slang, etc similar to what naming has then I don't see it as truly damaging. Yeah I get the whole lore and stuff but like, I don't know it seems kind of unreasonably limiting. To the point where it hindering stuff like descriptions (months in a queue is a little silly.)

2. I would like this, honestly. What's the point in user review if they don't do anything really? Granted I have a few odd ones at times that don't add anything but most of the time I see accepts. 

 

Or really, simply recruit more mods to review descriptions if the backlog is this large. I can understand a week or two for queues, but months clearly means you have more workload than you have sufficient mods and or volunteers. 

 

And no offense, just because someone takes inspiration from another site doesn't mean this site can't accommodate a similar feature. Some sites grow on ideas from others in new and unique ways. (also this is descriptions so. That point is little so insignificant here this isn't killing the site or disrupting the entire gameplay. We do need a better system for descriptions. And tkaing inspiration from other sites to maybe help solve the issue is not a bad thing. Humans only think in so many ways.)

[Fuzzbucket]

As Kaini has already said, user reviews DO help mods.

[Qualeo]

They're not doing enough is the issue (or really anything for the issue they don't cut the queue in half they just reorganize it. I did miss that comment though thank you good to know! 😊

 

I think all the ideas could work, but the basic, simple and preferred solution is to hire more mods specifically for descriptions.

[Fuzzbucket]

Exactly  

[Natayah]

While I think any change that helps the process of dragon descriptions is great, I think sometimes the people who are most aware, on top and involved ongoing with this would be the combo of mods and players that often participate in the Description Force thread. Not that there are not plenty of other players who contribute to this process and have thoughts on it that are just as valid, they are just very highly committed to Dragon Descriptions and those people usually end up there unless they don't know it exists. I know a few have weighed in, and they've had proposed thoughts and ideas and grammar and editing and all sorts of things they've gone over in their thread. Since they tend to be the ones most dedicated and involved on this process, I think they might be a good resource to fine tune any suggestion about any thing related to "dragon descriptions, the process, and how to improve". It's just there is literally a group of mods and players already very dedicated to this process and seeing it develop and get better. I mean, I don't know that "now is the time to talk about dragon descriptions" as they've been an ongoing topic for years now for a very dedicated group. You might have the best suggestion posted right now. I mean maybe you are involved with the group. I don't know. I support anyone posting most any ideas, but they might be a good resource for thoughts on straight Option A or B or C for any potential fine tuning or alternatives or thoughts as this is what they do.

[Cinspawn]

I didn't read all comments in the thread

 

but RE: issue of people submitting spam when descriptions would be auto-approved:

if there's a description somewhere, and no one has seen it (except the maker), with the most ugly, toxic words you can think of....

 

..does it really exist?

 

I mean, of course it does, it exists. But as long as no one sees it, is it doing harm? And if someone sees it - they can report it. 🤷‍♀️

 

A lot of sites have descriptions (or similar stuff) that can be edited freely, no queue or moderation or whatever. And I know, Dragoncave isn't those sites, blah blah. But it IS the norm, and perhaps that also means it works.

 

So yeah, I'm in favor of having descriptions be less restrictive and be viewable from the beginning, and essentially swapping out the description queue to a report queue for the mods. (And perhaps add more description-only mods).

Only if the report process is NOT automatic, though.. so no X reports = deleted description. It has to be a human process. And if someone has multiple intentionally reportable descriptions, they get a ban on descriptions.

 

Automatically approved descriptions would only work if the rules get less restrictive, though. I don't want it to be reportable to not be lore-based enough or whatever. Reports should be for abuse only, not style etc.

[RainDear]

4 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

It actually says only US,

 

https://dragcave.net/help/descriptions

 

 

I have had the odd reject over that.

 

Thanks for the correction, Fuzz. I was going by things I had seen posted in the forums I guess. I'll be more careful in future.

 

I don't find the present rules too restrictive, and we have great resources to help us to fine tune our descriptions, as well.

[Fuzzbucket]

9 hours ago, Cinspawn said:

I didn't read all comments in the thread

 

but RE: issue of people submitting spam when descriptions would be auto-approved:

if there's a description somewhere, and no one has seen it (except the maker), with the most ugly, toxic words you can think of....

 

..does it really exist?

 

I mean, of course it does, it exists. But as long as no one sees it, is it doing harm? And if someone sees it - they can report it. 🤷‍♀️

 

 

Yes - anyone set to view "pendings" can see it. And to your other point :

 

Quote

I don't want it to be reportable to not be lore-based enough or whatever. Reports should be for abuse only, not style etc.

 

If they are a cause for rejection, and descriptions can be auto-approved, they have to be reportable. Which is why I am so in favour of desc mods.

 

I find the US spelling thing very annoying indeed. There are a few words I am still not aware have different spelling and I do get picked up on them with rejects occasionally. Luckily thus far I haven't actually been mod-rejected for it, but... It will also apply to Australians, New Zealanders and Canadians.

[Cinspawn]

@Fuzzbucket

I don't think you got either of my points.

 

Point A was that what is the harm in a description hidden somewhere in the site - if it's not out plain to see? It's like me telling you I have a dragon called *insert slur here* on page 7 third row of my dragons. Except I wouldn't tell you. The odds of you stumbling upon that dragon would be very low - and if you do, you can report it then. It wouldn't be doing a lot of harm if no one sees it. The only way it could be seen if it was posted publicly - and then it would get reported even more and (presumably) removed very quickly. (If mods themselves can remove descriptions - this shouldn't fall on TJ who is very busy as far as I can tell)

 

And my second point was - auto-approved descriptions should very much be reportable - but not for style or lore choices (in my opinion) because a very, very big part of the descriptions probably will be reported that way and thus make a huge work load for the mods, kind of defeating the purpose of the report function. I feel like reporting should be reserved for abuse only.

 

So basically (imo), in order to get auto approved descriptions, standards need to be lowered for what counts as an acceptable description. Otherwise it will be an endless back and forth of having to alter your description after you made it - even though there's nothing really horrible about it - just because ... ~*standards*~.

I wouldn't mind if these new kind of descriptions were officially seen as fanon (headcanon) from now on - I mean, it even says "user description" pretty clearly above it. I don't think anyone will take these descriptions as canon. And it would open up A LOT of awesome new storylines and ideas to indulge into as a user. But it will also open up descriptions that say "this is Pete my Red Dragon and he is literally the strongest dragon in Valkemare". (Which I'd totally be ok with, personally)