BSA to influence breed

[UnicornMaiden]

If dragons of two different breeds mate could we have a BSA to influence which parent's breed the egg is more likely to be? I don't think it ought to be a 100% guarantee of being the same breed as the parent in question, but just something to increase the likelihood of getting the breed you want. I imagine it could work similarly to Fertility where you could pick the dragon you want, and when the dragon mates the egg (if one is produced) would be more likely to be the same breed as that parent. If no egg is produced then the BSA would have no effect.

 

Updating to cover the discussion on the first three pages:

 

Dragon to have the BSA:

 

My suggestion was Aria Dragons, which seemed to get popular support. The reasoning is based on the fact that they have close associations with Purple and Pink Dragons, based on similar breed history. Purple and Pink Dragons have Fertility and Influence, and this BSA would be similar in theme to those two.

 

There was also a suggestion that the BSA go to Duotone Dragons due to their dual nature.

 

Not throwing off the breed ratios:

 

Concerns were raised that this BSA could be used to over-influence for rare breeds, which could throw off the ratios and cause issues. There were a couple suggestions to counteract this.

 

Some people favored excluding rare breeds from being affected by this. On the pro side it would mean that the numbers couldn’t be inflated. On the con side it could be seen as controversial and arbitrary to exclude some breeds.

 

A more popular suggestion was to weigh the success rate according to the desired breed’s rarity. To put it simply: The BSA would have a high success rate when influencing for common breeds and a low success rate when influencing for rare breeds. A very promising-looking system was proposed to make success ratios from market value, shown here:

Quote

 

You could tie the success chances to the difference in Market prices at breeding time.

 

E.g. I want to get a Magi from an Ash? Both are at 100 shards, so the BSA could raise the chance to get a Magi by 100/100 = 1 => 100%.

I want to get a Mageia out of an Ash? Mageia is 400 shards, to the BSA could raise the chance at a Mageia by 100/400 = 0.25 = 25%.

Silver out of Ash? Silver is 3000 shards right now. That adds 3% to the chance at getting a Silver.

 

Like that, you wouldn't need to limit the BSA to certain arbitrarily chosen "common" breeds, as there is already a formula that dynamically calculates (and nowadays also displays) current rarity of dragons. You could still spend a BSA on your rares and hope for the best, for those measly 3%, but it shouldn't be gamebreaking.

 

  

 

How it would affect hybrid breeds:

 

Use of this BSA would decrease your chance of getting a hybrid from two non-hybrids. If you use it on a White and breed to a Daydream then the resulting egg would be more likely to be a White than either a Daydream or a Soulpeace.

 

When used on a hybrid it would work the same as a non-hybrid. If you use it on a Soulpeace and breed to anything else then the egg will be more likely to be a Soulpeace.

 

Holiday breeding:

 

This BSA would not override the rules that apply to breeding holiday dragons. It would have 100% failure rate if used on a holiday dragon outside of their breeding period. It would be ineffective if used on a holiday/non-holiday pairing during the period because holiday dragons always breed true within their timeframe.

 

It would apply to dragons which are of the same holiday but different breeds. For example, if you use it on a Solstice and breed with an Aegis during their breeding period the egg will be more likely to be a Solstice.

 

Multi-egg clutches:

 

If dragons produce multiple eggs then the BSA will apply to each egg individually. If the BSA calculates a 25% success rate and three eggs are produced then each of the three eggs would have +25% chance of being what you want.

 

Cool-down period:

 

I suggested two weeks for the cool-down period. There has not been much discussion on it.

 

Name for BSA:

 

Several names have been thrown out.

 

If based on Aria Dragons using singing magic to accomplish the task suggestions include Mating Call, Incantation, and Chant.

 

If based on breeding and genetics suggestions include Inherit, Bequeath, Transmit, Heritage, Inheritance, Heredity, Legacy, Dominance, and Virility.

 

If based on the act of influencing suggestions include Suggest, Hint, Select, Sway, Pick, and Prefer.

Edited May 31, 2019 by UnicornMaiden
Updating details based on discussion

[Fuzzbucket]

I'd like ANYTHING that could fix some of the common x common imbalances we get. I'd be FINE to exclude prizes and metals. But there are breeds who completely donate over another - and it isn';t only the new breeds that do this.

[DragonLady86]

hmm, on the one hand so many people would use this trying for rares that it would likely mess up the ratios really bad which makes me want to say no.

 

On the other hand there are far too many common x common pairings out there where it is impossible to get one of the breeds from, which would make this really useful. 

 

To make a BSA suggestion, you should either 1. have a dragon in mind, with an explanation of why it is a good choice or 2. make a suggestion for a new dragon in dragon requests that is built around this ability. Unfortunately, the ratios problem is likely to trump this issue and pull it into the negatives.

[Fuzzbucket]

I would be fine if it only applied to commons, actually. Not that there IS technically such a thing, but my issues are things like moonstone x bluebanded. And there is as I recall an issue with carmines - I gave up on them a while ago !

[DragonLady86]

Just now, Fuzzbucket said:

I would be fine if it only applied to commons, actually. Not that there IS technically such a thing, but my issues are things like moonstone x bluebanded. And there is as I recall an issue with carmines - I gave up on them a while ago !

If it could somehow be made to not work on pairings with a rare partner, I'd be okay with that.  I don't make lineages at all due to the one-sided issue.  I'd like to, it's just not worth the effort.

[osmarks]

It could be made to work such that the chance of it working/chance change it makes is inversely proportional to the rarity/ratios or whatever of the dragon you're trying to influence it toward, so it'd be effective on commonish ones and not very effective on rares.

[HeatherMarie]

Yes yes yes please! I echo others, I'd love anything to help some of the common/common pairing imbalances. And having it work only on commons, or just excluding metals (since they are really the only breedable *rares*), would be just fine. 

 

In general it is best to mold a BSA suggestion around a specific breed, though, ie find a breed that could logically do something like that and explain why they could do it. Either that or make a new breed to attach the BSA to, in which case it would go in Dragon Requests. The problem comes when people have an idea for a BSA they really want, and try to stick it on random in-cave dragons with no explanation or rationalization. Those tend to get shut down fairly quickly. So, is there a dragon in-cave that would actually fit something like this?

[Ruby Eyes]

You could tie the success chances to the difference in Market prices at breeding time.

 

E.g. I want to get a Magi from an Ash? Both are at 100 shards, so the BSA could raise the chance to get a Magi by 100/100 = 1 => 100%.

I want to get a Mageia out of an Ash? Mageia is 400 shards, to the BSA could raise the chance at a Mageia by 100/400 = 0.25 = 25%.

Silver out of Ash? Silver is 3000 shards right now. That adds 3% to the chance at getting a Silver.

 

Like that, you wouldn't need to limit the BSA to certain arbitrarily chosen "common" breeds, as there is already a formula that dynamically calculates (and nowadays also displays) current rarity of dragons. You could still spend a BSA on your rares and hope for the best, for those measly 3%, but it shouldn't be gamebreaking.

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

I like this! @Ruby Eyes‘s last suggestion seems pretty good and cool in my eyes  

[Fuzzbucket]

1 hour ago, Ruby Eyes said:

You could tie the success chances to the difference in Market prices at breeding time.

 

 

That's VERY clever. Yes !

 

Though I note that my two offending breeds at this moment are both at 100...

[UnicornMaiden]

For a breed to have this BSA I was thinking of Aria dragons. It's kind of a silly, roundabout reasoning. They are the updated version of the old Bright Pinks, and I've always thought of them and the Purples as sort of being like sister breeds since they both started out as female-only. It makes sense to me that they might have some similar abilities, and I see this BSA as being similar to Fertility. I know, kind of a weird logic, but it makes sense to me.

 

18 hours ago, Ruby Eyes said:

You could tie the success chances to the difference in Market prices at breeding time.

 

E.g. I want to get a Magi from an Ash? Both are at 100 shards, so the BSA could raise the chance to get a Magi by 100/100 = 1 => 100%.

I want to get a Mageia out of an Ash? Mageia is 400 shards, to the BSA could raise the chance at a Mageia by 100/400 = 0.25 = 25%.

Silver out of Ash? Silver is 3000 shards right now. That adds 3% to the chance at getting a Silver.

 

Like that, you wouldn't need to limit the BSA to certain arbitrarily chosen "common" breeds, as there is already a formula that dynamically calculates (and nowadays also displays) current rarity of dragons. You could still spend a BSA on your rares and hope for the best, for those measly 3%, but it shouldn't be gamebreaking.

 

I love this idea! I am totally on board with having the success rate be related to the breed's rarity so as not to throw off the ratios, and this seems like a great way of doing it.

[osmarks]

It might make more sense to use the unrounded prices the market ones are presumably generated from, for more accuracy at the lower end.

[purplehaze]

I have so often wished for a way to influence breed. Common checkers can be a real nightmare when one of the breeds is inexplicably dominant! I like the idea of using market prices as a way to determine the chance of success.

[relaks]

On 9/28/2018 at 11:02 AM, Ruby Eyes said:

You could tie the success chances to the difference in Market prices at breeding time.

 

E.g. I want to get a Magi from an Ash? Both are at 100 shards, so the BSA could raise the chance to get a Magi by 100/100 = 1 => 100%.

I want to get a Mageia out of an Ash? Mageia is 400 shards, to the BSA could raise the chance at a Mageia by 100/400 = 0.25 = 25%.

Silver out of Ash? Silver is 3000 shards right now. That adds 3% to the chance at getting a Silver.

 

Like that, you wouldn't need to limit the BSA to certain arbitrarily chosen "common" breeds, as there is already a formula that dynamically calculates (and nowadays also displays) current rarity of dragons. You could still spend a BSA on your rares and hope for the best, for those measly 3%, but it shouldn't be gamebreaking.

 

I love the idea and I think this is quite a clever way to balance the "rareness" of both breeds, so I'm 100% on board!

Edited September 29, 2018 by relaks

[Forever_Monee]

I really love @Ruby Eyes's idea! Common x Common checkers are difficult sometimes and this would help absolutely and it wouldn't be game-breaking using the percentage method.

[anetofstars]

I'm behind the OP's suggestion 100%! I would like to make more lineages, but the current system where certain breeds dominate others almost always causes any lineage breeding between different certain breeds to be problematical at best.  Obviously, others are as frustrated as I am.

[Starbit]

One of the many, many Sunstone progenies I have that will adequately explain my support for this.

 

I'm still waiting on so many Balloons =(

[UnicornMaiden]

1 hour ago, Starbit-Plushie said:

One of the many, many Sunstone progenies I have that will adequately explain my support for this.

 

I'm still waiting on so many Balloons =(

 

Ouch. And I thought I had trouble getting the breed I want from certain pairings!

[GhostMouse]

I really like this idea. I have really had some issues getting the right common from a pairing before, it's very frustrating! Especially when the odds seem like they should be 50/50.

[13310]

Agreed, this would be extremely helpful. I have several common couples that create plenty of eggs...but always the wrong breed. Wouldn't mind if it impacts rares too, as long as it's weighted for balance, such as the great example above.

[Guillotine]

On Friday, September 28, 2018 at 5:02 AM, Ruby Eyes said:

You could tie the success chances to the difference in Market prices at breeding time.

 

E.g. I want to get a Magi from an Ash? Both are at 100 shards, so the BSA could raise the chance to get a Magi by 100/100 = 1 => 100%.

I want to get a Mageia out of an Ash? Mageia is 400 shards, to the BSA could raise the chance at a Mageia by 100/400 = 0.25 = 25%.

Silver out of Ash? Silver is 3000 shards right now. That adds 3% to the chance at getting a Silver.

 

Like that, you wouldn't need to limit the BSA to certain arbitrarily chosen "common" breeds, as there is already a formula that dynamically calculates (and nowadays also displays) current rarity of dragons. You could still spend a BSA on your rares and hope for the best, for those measly 3%, but it shouldn't be gamebreaking.

 

This is basically the perfect way to implement such a thing, I think! Maybe it'd be better to use the unrounded numbers in the backend, like someone else said, but it's otherwise exactly what I'd look for in a BSA like this.
 

[tjekan]

Support, but I do worry this is a temporary fix to a much deeper problem that will just pop up again. If the ratio system thinks we all need to raise 20 times as many sunstones as balloons, then using a BSA to trick it into giving us more bred balloons is eventually just going to result in it thinking we all need to raise 40 times as many sunstones as balloons, making sunstones flood the biomes and aggravate hunters.

 

The ratio system really, really needs to be tweaked. If everyone feels they have enough of a certain breed, force-feeding us more anyway isn't fun.

 

In the meantime, though, I am in favor of the band-aid. Tying it to market prices will help people do at least temporary end-runs around the most pointless of the ratio things without actually messing up the balance between commons and rares, which is the part of the ratios that IS working correctly.

[Aalbiel]

On 9/28/2018 at 11:02 AM, Ruby Eyes said:

You could tie the success chances to the difference in Market prices at breeding time.

 

E.g. I want to get a Magi from an Ash? Both are at 100 shards, so the BSA could raise the chance to get a Magi by 100/100 = 1 => 100%.

I want to get a Mageia out of an Ash? Mageia is 400 shards, to the BSA could raise the chance at a Mageia by 100/400 = 0.25 = 25%.

Silver out of Ash? Silver is 3000 shards right now. That adds 3% to the chance at getting a Silver.

 

Like that, you wouldn't need to limit the BSA to certain arbitrarily chosen "common" breeds, as there is already a formula that dynamically calculates (and nowadays also displays) current rarity of dragons. You could still spend a BSA on your rares and hope for the best, for those measly 3%, but it shouldn't be gamebreaking.

 

I really think it would be no problem to restrict rare breeds from this BSA/action, after all rares didn't use to be able to breed with each other, so this could work the same.

 

However! I am super into this Market-tied idea! Very clever, easy to set up and just generally practical, and less controversial than any "rare-excluding" cutoff from above. If this happens I would love for it to happen like this.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Aalbiel

[Fuzzbucket]

I think if it tied in to market price, the rare issue would go away at once.

[sbld]

Can I ask how this would work for hybrids? If I was breeding daydream with a white, how would influencing one or the other work?