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HeatherMarie

Trading Hub- Separate 'Have' box, more characters in 'Want' box

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9 hours ago, sorenna said:

Can I suggest that there be two boxes, but instead of 'have' and 'want' make them 'want' and 'notes'? 

 

That gives people a little more latitude, so they can just say "don't want silvers" or "it wasn't influenced" or even "also want mates from group/xxxxx" in the second box instead of just describing their egg.

"no silvers" and "mates from group xxxx are both "wants""  where as mentioning influence would be part of what you have.  ie: 3rg gen perfect checker, correctly influenced.  because it's describing what you are offering.  "notes" are not needed.

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Then that fits fine in the want box - which we do need. We really don't need notes as well. As you say :)

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5 hours ago, Ruby Eyes said:

I think "Wants" and "Notes" would actually be perfect. "Notes" could contain whatever you describe your offer to be, and/or whatever you do NOT want. You can already filter the "haves" by breed, and you can filter the "Wants", so whatever you'd put into the "Notes" would be displayed with the trade but have no effect on your filtering wishes.

Not everyone feels the need to describe what they have, or add a list of things they do NOT want, so labelling the 2nd box "Notes" would give a little leeway.

 

The entire reason the Want box is useless right now is because you can't reliably search/filter it. Looking for 'silver' may bring up people who want silvers, people who have noted that they *have* silvers, people who *don't* want silvers, etc etc. The entire reason I want a dedicated Have box is so we can search it. Sure you can filter by breed, but that doesn't give any way to search for trades that have a specific lineage, or altkin or SAkin or Prizekin or cool codes or anything like that. A dedicated Have box would be very useful to be able to actually search/filter by specific keywords like that. Sure not everyone will use it, but not everyone uses the Want box either. Making a 'Notes' box *instead* of a Have box means that, once again, it's useless when it comes to reliable searching. Wanting to search for trades that *have* 'altkin', for example, may turn up 'don't want altkin', which is the exact same situation we have now of the available box being used for multiple purposes so it's useless for any one purpose. 

 

Honestly the biggest issue, imo, is simply that we *have* a keyword search box, but it's useless. We've been given a wonderful tool to find specific trades with specific 'wants', but it's useless because of all the other junk people put in it. Either separate the different things people need, ie 'want' and 'have' and possibly 'notes' too, or take away the box altogether. Because right now it's a useless feature that has such awesome wonderful potential but the results just get muddied with tons of unwanted stuff.

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12 hours ago, HeatherMarie said:

Then we'd run into the same problem we have now, of the filter box being fairly useless. If you want to search for trades that have, say, a cavebred, but there isn't a specific 'have' box, and the 'notes' box allows stuff like 'prefer cavebreds' and 'don't want cavebreds' and such, then once again you can't reliably search for 'cavebred' at all.

 

^ Precisely this. And considering you can probably cover most trades with an upgraded (more characters) have and want box, I don't think a notes box is necessary and it might encourage people to put stuff TJ doesn't want there.

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100% support this! I would love the text box to be longer to allow more text. If we get a separate "Have" box, even better.  If not, just having a longer area for text would be helpful.  

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Here's a summary of what has been discussed so far:

 

- Extra separate box: the "Have" box

Making it more clear what users have and what they want. Right now, there is no set order members use for describing what they have and what they want. Also because our current 1 box is being used for multiple things, it makes the search function WAY less useful.

 

- A separate search function for the "Have" and "Want" boxes

So when we search for "caveborn" we can specify: do you want to see trades that offer caveborns, or do you want to see trades that are looking for caveborns?

 

- More characters in both boxes
A lot of people are running into space problems when describing what they want or have.

 

- A (more...) option, to eliminate all character space problems

"Basically if you reach an X amount of characters, a (More) button would appear, and if you press that you simply get to the page of the trade itself. We could easily have a little 500 character limit box there and voila, people can properly include details of what they're looking for, and only people who are interested in the trade have to click it."

image.png.4ce032b6ac12ff39895fee49a066e872.png

 

- A list of standard terminology
I'm assuming @Pilauli meant a list on the official Trade Hub page. Basically a list with common terminilogy such as CB, PB, 2G, EG, etc.

 

- A "do not want" box
To put in stuff you absolutely wouldn't accept.

 

- Extra separate box: the "Notes" box (instead of Have box) + a separate search function for the "Notes" box

More general, people can put what they don't want to have, or they can describe what they have.

 

Note that this is just a summary and don't reflect my opinions.

 

 

=====================================================

 

Now for my opinion :lol: I personally agree with all of the above, except the last two: I think a "do not want" box is unnecessary when you can put what you actually want, plus you can never 100% cover all the things you want (or don't want!) because sometimes you get an offer and suddenly think "oh, I want this!". I think having to reject offers sometimes is part of trading. A third box would cause too much clutter for too little functionality, I think.

 

I'd rather have the separate "Wants" box instead of a "Notes" box (and their respective search functions). Wants is clear. You put in what you want. Notes is less clear, because it covers a lot more topics - and thus stunts the search function again, giving us effectively the same problem we have now.

(For example: if you're gonna put "I don't want caveborns" in Notes, I'm gonna find that trade when I search for "caveborn" with the intention of trading away my caveborn egg, yet it's not relevant to what I'm looking for.)

 

I personally think it wouldn't be too hard to make a list of terminology, even though they're user-made, a lot are already "standard" (just not official, I guess) and like @Zeditha said, a thread could be opened for suggestions, if TJ decides to add a list (and if he even needs our help). The list would be VERY helpful for newbies or people who don't trade a lot or who came back from a hiatus.

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@Cinspawn Thanks for the summary! Plus, I absolutely agree with your personal opinion especially concerning the last 2 points on the list. (no need to quote all of this but 1 like from me)

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I always thought the "Wants:" box is labelled that way as that is what the trader "wants", as in, a verb, not a noun.

So the other box ought to be labelled "Has:" I think :D

Edited by Ruby Eyes
typo

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1 minute ago, Ruby Eyes said:

I always thought the "Wants:" box is labelled that way as that is what the trader "wants", as in, a verb, not a noun.

So the other box ought to be labelled "Has:" I think :D

If you're talking about my mockup screenshot, I'm aware of that mistake XD I made it late at night. I'd be fine with whatever form is grammatically correct 😇

 

@Soulsborne thanks for not quoting that big post just to agree! XD

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Would love this, with a slight tweak.  The *Have* box can be optional - after all, someone could just click the link to see what someone has - but the *Want* box should be mandatory.  It is MASSIVELY annoying when people post trades in the Hub without the merest *hint* of what they're looking for.

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Separating Haves from Wants would be grand. (I'd actually love a very basic standardized generation/breed auto-fill on Have, with the option to edit/elaborate, but I figure that's wildly unrealistic.)

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A have box and a separate have search would be fantastic compared to the stopgap we currently have. Saying "haves are allowed in the wants box" and doing nothing on top of it only made the search box less useful.

 

Making wants mandatory is unnecessary because it will not actually change what people post. "Offers" will always be rules-allowed and gives you the exact same lack of information as a blank space for more effort.

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4 hours ago, Shadowdrake said:

A have box and a separate have search would be fantastic compared to the stopgap we currently have. Saying "haves are allowed in the wants box" and doing nothing on top of it only made the search box less useful.

 

Making wants mandatory is unnecessary because it will not actually change what people post. "Offers" will always be rules-allowed and gives you the exact same lack of information as a blank space for more effort.

 

Yes indeed. When I get a stunning misbreed, as I did yesterday, I would be happy to see what interesting things I can get, and may very well have no idea what I'd accept ! A recent example was a very pretty water x green checker. Not something I had ever done - but now I shall. Random offers can do great things.

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7 hours ago, Shadowdrake said:

A have box and a separate have search would be fantastic compared to the stopgap we currently have. Saying "haves are allowed in the wants box" and doing nothing on top of it only made the search box less useful.

 

Making wants mandatory is unnecessary because it will not actually change what people post. "Offers" will always be rules-allowed and gives you the exact same lack of information as a blank space for more effort.

 

I'm fine with people just putting "Offers" - what gets really annoying is literally nothing at all.  Like, are you even trading that, Random Person?

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5 minutes ago, Amazon_warrior said:

 

I'm fine with people just putting "Offers" - what gets really annoying is literally nothing at all.  Like, are you even trading that, Random Person?

They might have intended to just make a post about it elsewhere. I can imagine people assuming that since the 3rd option says "Public", the 2nd option could be hidden or something the like. They might not realize that it just means a "trading hub trade".

Another possibility is that they just didn't get the input box at all because their browser or security suite forbids the scripts needed for this, and thus they couldn't enter anything.

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1 hour ago, Ruby Eyes said:

They might have intended to just make a post about it elsewhere. I can imagine people assuming that since the 3rd option says "Public", the 2nd option could be hidden or something the like. They might not realize that it just means a "trading hub trade".

Another possibility is that they just didn't get the input box at all because their browser or security suite forbids the scripts needed for this, and thus they couldn't enter anything.

 

That's actually a very good point. I sometimes have to override my browser on stuff :)

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1 hour ago, Ruby Eyes said:

They might have intended to just make a post about it elsewhere. I can imagine people assuming that since the 3rd option says "Public", the 2nd option could be hidden or something the like. They might not realize that it just means a "trading hub trade".

Another possibility is that they just didn't get the input box at all because their browser or security suite forbids the scripts needed for this, and thus they couldn't enter anything.

 

Then they get a gentle reminder?  On top of this:

"Create a two-way trade that will also be listed in the Trading Hub, allowing others to find it without you directly sharing it with them."

 

I've definitely done accidental "blank" public trades before I managed to arrange DC permissions to my satisfaction, I would have appreciated something that pointed out I was missing something out.  *shrug*

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On 9/21/2018 at 4:25 PM, Cinspawn said:

I made a mockup because I think people have a hard time visualizing a certain amount of characters.

 

JCSeGO6.png

 

The above mockup used 100 characters (the current limit) for both Haves and Wants, so 200 characters total.

 

I personally think this still looks OK, keep in mind it's not likely every trade will use all characters allowed.

But I don't know if it's enough characters for some of our breeders who want to specify things. So if they do want way more space, perhaps it's important to think about ways to accomplish that without making the Trading Hub one big wall of text, with big empty spaces in between.

 

 

 

A possible solution is a "More" button:

wc0lW7J.png

 

Basically if you reach an X amount of characters, a (More) button would appear, and if you press that you simply get to the page of the trade itself. We could easily have a little 500 character limit box there and voila, people can properly include details of what they're looking for, and only people who are interested in the trade have to click it.

 

Only downside I can think of (so far): bit harder to moderate. But I don't know if mods actually look through trades on their own, or only act on reported trades. If the latter, this shouldn't be too much of an issue, I think? I don't know.

 

 

Thoughts?

 

 

And I realize I should have put "Have" not "Haves" but I realized too late and I can't be bothered to fix it :P 

I would GUESS, and a mod may correct me here if I am wrong, that the mods probably only look at the ones that are reported.

 

Speculation on my part, but I would ASSUME that there are probably far too many trades for our mods to have the time to handle each one personally and, since I would also guess the vast majority of trades and offers are non problematic, they only look at ones that are called to their attention, for whatever reason. From there, they deal with the issue as they deem appropriate. I wouldn't think that having a 'Have' section would change that all that much....anything offensive or otherwise in violation of rules can be reported and dealt with by mods just as it is, now.

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On 9/21/2018 at 4:25 PM, Cinspawn said:

I made a mockup because I think people have a hard time visualizing a certain amount of characters.

 

JCSeGO6.png

 

The above mockup used 100 characters (the current limit) for both Haves and Wants, so 200 characters total.

 

I personally think this still looks OK, keep in mind it's not likely every trade will use all characters allowed.

But I don't know if it's enough characters for some of our breeders who want to specify things. So if they do want way more space, perhaps it's important to think about ways to accomplish that without making the Trading Hub one big wall of text, with big empty spaces in between.

 

 

 

A possible solution is a "More" button:

wc0lW7J.png

 

Basically if you reach an X amount of characters, a (More) button would appear, and if you press that you simply get to the page of the trade itself. We could easily have a little 500 character limit box there and voila, people can properly include details of what they're looking for, and only people who are interested in the trade have to click it.

 

Only downside I can think of (so far): bit harder to moderate. But I don't know if mods actually look through trades on their own, or only act on reported trades. If the latter, this shouldn't be too much of an issue, I think? I don't know.

 

 

Thoughts?

 

 

And I realize I should have put "Have" not "Haves" but I realized too late and I can't be bothered to fix it :P 

I would GUESS, and a mod may correct me here if I am wrong, that the mods probably only look at the ones that are reported.

 

Speculation on my part, but I would ASSUME that there are probably far too many trades for our mods to have the time to handle each one personally and, since I would also guess the vast majority of trades and offers are non problematic, they only look at ones that are called to their attention, for whatever reason. From there, they deal with the issue as they deem appropriate. I wouldn't think that having a 'Have' section would change that all that much....anything offensive or otherwise in violation of rules can be reported and dealt with by mods just as it is, now.

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19 hours ago, Amazon_warrior said:

Would love this, with a slight tweak.  The *Have* box can be optional - after all, someone could just click the link to see what someone has - but the *Want* box should be mandatory.  It is MASSIVELY annoying when people post trades in the Hub without the merest *hint* of what they're looking for.

 

No Thanks to a mandatory want box. It's come up multiple times before in this section, and I'll repeat what I've said before: You can't *make* someone give you information on what they want. It's just not possible. Some people don't *know* what they want, or are just putting it out there to see what kind of stuff they get offered, or maybe the 'want' box doesn't even work for them. Making a want box mandatory will most likely lead to a lot of stuff like 'mandatory text here' or 'lalala i have to say something here' and that can't really be against the rules since they are forced to put *something* there. It won't actually help make the trades better or more clear, and will probably just annoy a lot of people (especially the people who may accidentally have the want box blocked somehow?). 

 

edit: If it's annoying you to not know what someone wants, just skip over that trade. You don't have to offer on it, you don't have to give it a second thought.

Edited by HeatherMarie

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@Cinspawn Thanks for doing the mockup. My mind needs visuals and that really helps. I very much like the "more" button. If people feel the need to expand on their wants, that allows them to do so without stretching out the listing awkwardly. I don't think either box should be mandatory for all the reasons that others have already stated. I probably won't respond to trades with a blank want field, but that is just my choice. Forcing them to list something would probably just result in a lot of junk in that box that wouldn't really be helpful anyway.

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58 minutes ago, HeatherMarie said:

 

No Thanks to a mandatory want box. It's come up multiple times before in this section, and I'll repeat what I've said before: You can't *make* someone give you information on what they want. It's just not possible. Some people don't *know* what they want, or are just putting it out there to see what kind of stuff they get offered, or maybe the 'want' box doesn't even work for them. Making a want box mandatory will most likely lead to a lot of stuff like 'mandatory text here' or 'lalala i have to say something here' and that can't really be against the rules since they are forced to put *something* there. It won't actually help make the trades better or more clear, and will probably just annoy a lot of people (especially the people who may accidentally have the want box blocked somehow?). 

 

edit: If it's annoying you to not know what someone wants, just skip over that trade. You don't have to offer on it, you don't have to give it a second thought.

 

Unless, of course, it happens to be something I actually would like to, y'know, trade for.  Forgive me for trying to ensure that traders put some indication of their desires.  I just recently watched someone repeatedly spamming the trade hub with a particular egg - the "Want" box literally only contained a description of the egg they were supposedly offering, but they cancelled endless (insanely good - although not from me) offers and just kept re-posting.  Unfortunately, all of that is very irritating to watch, but not actually anything reportable.

 

ETA: People's browser issues are their problem.  DC has quite a large number of features now that require JS to use at all.  I don't see why the TH should be an exception?

Edited by Amazon_warrior

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47 minutes ago, Amazon_warrior said:

Unless, of course, it happens to be something I actually would like to, y'know, trade for.  Forgive me for trying to ensure that traders put some indication of their desires.  I just recently watched someone repeatedly spamming the trade hub with a particular egg - the "Want" box literally only contained a description of the egg they were supposedly offering, but they cancelled endless (insanely good - although not from me) offers and just kept re-posting.  Unfortunately, all of that is very irritating to watch, but not actually anything reportable.

And I and several others made insanely good offers on something that just said "offers" and were all turned down. Frustrating, yes, but we really can't dictate that people actually put a specific thing in that box, because often people don't know what they want until they see it.

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1 minute ago, purplehaze said:

And I and several others made insanely good offers on something that just said "offers" and were all turned down. Frustrating, yes, but we really can't dictate that people actually put a specific thing in that box, because often people don't know what they want until they see it.

 

At least if someone writes "Offers", that's an indication that they're actually interested in trading, not just.... showing off a random egg they have.  I sometimes put that I'd like offers if I have something and I'm not sure what value others might place on it - and I accept that it can be a bit of a crap-shoot for the people offering, 'cos I've been on the other side too.  And if people choose to muck about and put really dumb stuff because it's mandatory, 1) that probably takes at least as much effort as posting actual wants and 2) it can be reported.

 

And if you actually want to trade something, is a mandatory field really your problem?

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I think 99% of all people who put their egg in the trading hub actually want to trade it, whether they filled in the description box or not. I simply assume that a blank box means they don't know what to ask or "offer".

 

If someone wants to be annoying and show off an egg they can easily do that with putting "offer" there as well. If you suspect someone is being malicious, you can just ignore that trade.

 

I'd rather not see the trading rules get even stricter because of people apparently showing off - you can't ever actually check for that. I think the easiest thing to do when someone trades in a way you don't like is to just move on.

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