Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) This thread is being closed because we now have the ability to sort dragons with groups. If such a thread is needed again in the future, users may create one. TJ made this post in Cave Feedback, and I figured instead of blowing up THAT thread.... we can blow up another! And since the previous tabs thread wasn't getting the job done... I've included his questions, in an easier quotable format, at the end. That's assuming tabs are the correct option, and given the plethora of suggestions for new ways of organizing dragons When someone suggests something, I look at the actual problem behind the suggestion, because the proposed solution isn't necessarily the only or best solution to the problem. Basically here's a bunch of thoughts, that help understand what people need regarding Dragon organization: Is an idealized sorting expressive enough for what we want? The existing implementation isn't, but could the problem be solved through changes to the sorting system? What about a rule-based sort (instead of manually placing each of your 7000 dragons, define rules under which they sort? Otherwise, what is the underlying problem? Is it locating dragons? If the problem is locating dragons, what sorts of situations are people looking for dragons? If the problem is locating dragons, can the problem be solved with some sort of search? If so, what axes need to be searched on? e.g. Name ID Breed Parents Preset labels (e.g. growing, gen 3, sick, male) Custom labels (e.g. something tag-like) If it's not locating dragons (locating things is generally best solved via search), then assuming the underlying problems requires break the list of dragons down into smaller subsets of dragons that can be sorted: Are groups unique? (i.e. can a dragon be a part of multiple groups, or only one?) Where do groups show up? Breeding? User pages? Any action that lists dragons? How does one add things to groups? Does this mechanism work for adding 10,000 dragons to groups? Is there a size limit to groups? If not, see bullet point one with regards to "How do you keep ordering dragons within a group manageable?" Does the solution hurt the visibility of certain dragons? (e.g. are dragons in a "non-default" group harder to find if you don't know what group they're in, or will people browse to non-default groups?) Questionnaire removed, see here: https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showt...dpost&p=9264392 Edited May 21, 2017 by SockPuppet Strangler Share this post Link to post
Posted August 1, 2016 Is the sorting expressive enough for what we want? Nope, not by a long shot Could it be solved through the sorting system? y/n and please explain Nope. Part of the problem is there are just so many dragons on my scroll, I have to page through pages and pages to find anything.... even if I know about where it should be (or was yesterday). Would a rule-based sort (instead of manually placing each of your dragons) work? You could define the rules under which the sort works. While a rule-based might help a little, it could also cause problems for me. Specifically, I seperate out my in-progress lineages at the end, so I can easily find them to breed them. A rule based definition would tend to stick them in a different place, unless I got really specific and the rule was super flexible. What are the underlying problems you have with the current system? - Is it locating dragons? Something else? Main problem is locating dragons. The other huge problem is not being able to separate out current projects from the rest of my dragons. Moving dragons via sort is also really painful. Is the problem Locating dragons? If so, can the problem be solved with some sort of search? No, because that doesn't solve the problem I have with keeping lineage dragons separate. It doesn't help to be able to find them.... If I don't remember I'm workign with them in the first place. So having a place to move them where I can work with them would be much better for me. Assuming the underlying problems requires breaking the list of dragons down into smaller subsets of dragons that can be sorted: - Are the groups unique? (ie can a dragon be in multiple groups) I personally don't care, but having in multiple groups might be nice. That way, you can have the dragon in its main home but also shown in another location. On the toher hand.... that could get messy. Maybe the GROUPS would be unique, but we could also have tags? - Where do groups show up? - - Breeding? Yes - - User-pages? Yes - - Any action lists that involve dragons? Yes How does one add things to groups? - Does this mechanism work for adding 10,000 dragons to groups? Check marks work well, or drop-downs. After the first sorting, most people won't move huge groups of dragons to different groups. Something like legacy sort would probably do really well. Drag and Drop would NOT be preferred. As it is, it gets hugely laggy and buggy moving more than a couple dragons. BUT! I will HAPPILY use it if we can get pages, buggyness and all. Is there a size limit to Groups? I'd say no, because scrolls have no limit. But limited the number of groups might be smart. Maybe 10 or 15 would work well. For me, I'd have groups of: CB Holidays Pretty Lineages / Codes Current Projects Past Projects Rares Other Dragons Does the solution hurt the visibility of certain dragons? (eg are dragons in a "non-default" group harder to find if you don't know what group they're in, or will people browse to non-default groups?) There are many people who WANT certain dragons to be harder to find, so for them this would be very helpful. For the user, so long as the number of groups is kept within reason, I don't see why it would be a problem. Are there specific features you'd like to see? The ability to hide specific groups. Some people do NOT want to be bothered about certain dragons, but would still like their scroll visible. Share this post Link to post
Posted August 1, 2016 Is the sorting expressive enough for what we want? For people with larger scrolls, nope. Could it be solved through the sorting system? y/n and please explain I personally think it could alleviate, wouldn't work for everyone but I think it would suit the majority. As i can only speak for myself, I say it would help me! Would a rule-based sort (instead of manually placing each of your dragons) work? You could define the rules under which the sort works. Yes, for most of my dragons. Some not so much... What are the underlying problems you have with the current system? - Is it locating dragons? Something else? Yes, I only have 2 pages and its hard to find the right dragons... Let alone doing what you need - breeding, BSA ect... Is the problem Locating dragons? If so, can the problem be solved with some sort of search? I think it could. If possible, I would love the see the addition of your encyclopedia being used as a tool to find dragons... Each species would have a list of dragons that belong... Eg: If you have 10 Balloon dragons when your in the encyclopedia page it would show all 10 balloon dragons (like their name or code, similar to the lineage links)... If possible, even being about the define the search looking for a particular named parent, generation, maturity (if hatchie/adult), gender would be a nice add on... Assuming the underlying problems requires breaking the list of dragons down into smaller subsets of dragons that can be sorted: - Are the groups unique? (ie can a dragon be in multiple groups) Yes - Where do groups show up? Either on scroll, like markers or even on the dragon's page itself - - Breeding? Happy for it to be included - - User-pages? Yep - - Any action lists that involve dragons? Yep How does one add things to groups? - Does this mechanism work for adding 10,000 dragons to groups? Well, I'm unsoure how to sort. even if you could just go into the dragon's page and have the option of manually typing out a new group or placing a dragon in an existing group would be nice. Is there a size limit to Groups? Well, I don't think it would hurt... But if needed, yes... I imagine 1000 would be enough. Does the solution hurt the visibility of certain dragons? (eg are dragons in a "non-default" group harder to find if you don't know what group they're in, or will people browse to non-default groups?) Don't think so, I assume that people viewing your dragons would be directed to your default setting... Are there specific features you'd like to see? Other thank listed above... not really... Banners, tabs or tags I think are the way to go without keeping it too hard to manage. Share this post Link to post
Posted August 1, 2016 Is the sorting expressive enough for what we want? It's painful and doesn't even serve my basic needs so I just succumb to using sort by date or by breed. The custom sort is what I'd like to do but all the custom sorts right now don't work properly for me. Could it be solved through the sorting system? y/n and please explainYes, for eg. 1) I'd like option of custom-breed sort. i.e instead of individually sorting every single dragon, I would like to drag (or number) an entire block containing one breed 2) In the legacy custom sort, I'd like that values to renumber themselves to default numbering once saved i,e. I can use 0 to bring up all the dragons I need on first page, but after I save the sort, the number don't reset to 1,2,3..renumbered till the end with the newer arrangement so I can't sort within those dragons who were brought up using zero. To understand in detail: Whiptail A original value in 1324 Neglected B original value is 6000 Two-head C original value is 24 I want these three to be at top (I'm using a very small sample, with bigger scrolls this sample is huge) Now I manually change value of all three dragons to 0 and save it, so now they're on top. What I'd ideally like is once the "save" is pressed the values should display as Whiptail A original value in 1 Neglected B original value is 2 Two-head C original value is 3 and any values after that changed accordingly instead of Whiptail A original value in 0 Neglected B original value is 0 Two-head C original value is 0 This way I can further interchange the values to sort within the group that I brought to top. I tried to achieve this using a combo of custom sort and legacy custom sort but it gets too confusing and just doesn't work. 2) The "place eggs and hatchlings on top" doesn't work for me properly when I use custom sorts. Last time I tried, half came up on top, half were scattered about. Also, once they grow up, they don't go to their respective breed section. All I want is to bring up a few special dragons (GoNs, NDs etc.) to top of my scroll UNDER the growing eggs/hatchlings and let the rest of my scroll use sort by breed. But I haven't found an easy way to do it and it's really frustrating so I don't even touch any of the sortings except default sort by breed. I can't drag and drop thousands of dragons either. Would a rule-based sort (instead of manually placing each of your dragons) work? You could define the rules under which the sort works. Yes it would, something like above if possible to define in rules would work great! What are the underlying problems you have with the current system? - locating dragons (which breed is where, which specific dragon is where) - looking for very specific dragons that I don't always know how to find - I don't see any solution for this except tags (eg. 2g mates, 4g prizes, special coded dragons etc.) - locating cb Vs lineaged - I currently do this offline using EATW's tools, if EATW can do it, I am sure it can be integrated some way on site to automatically identify all CB? - Placing specific dragons on top of scroll without having to re-do the entire sorting Is the problem Locating dragons? If so, can the problem be solved with some sort of search? - if it can search everything i listed above in last point, then yes but there's problems other than locating dragons too. Assuming the underlying problems requires breaking the list of dragons down into smaller subsets of dragons that can be sorted: - Are the groups unique? (ie can a dragon be in multiple groups) Yes and no Yes for - one breed of dragons, cb dragons, unbreedables etc no for - specific type of dragons like checkers, 3g prizes, coded dragons - Where do groups show up? - - Breeding? - - User-pages? - - Any action lists that involve dragons? How does one add things to groups? I would like a simple interface like an option of groups in settings. When I open "manage" page of a certain group it should show all dragons on my scroll with an option for select all/none , there should also be an option for single code to insert code to group manually. So if it's very specific I can add dragon using codes, and if it's more generic like all unbreedables I can simply tick the boxes next to them and add/delete them in one swoop. Is there a size limit to Groups? I don't think it's necessary and might likely pose a challenge in future Does the solution hurt the visibility of certain dragons? (eg are dragons in a "non-default" group harder to find if you don't know what group they're in, or will people browse to non-default groups?) Hmm.. I don't think so. What I'm looking for is grouped dragons so that if I view a certain group, I can find all dragons in it, I am not concerned about visibility, I would only like a grouping option for ease of categorisation. But if others need visibility options, I am not opposed to that. Are there specific features you'd like to see? - Search function in scroll, by code, by name and by breed if possible - Easier sorting option, I imagine custom sorts would work very nicely for smaller scrolls but when you have more dragons than you can keep track of, those custom sorts just don't work - they're too time consuming and require a lot of effort. - Tagging/grouping/categorization of some sort - a way to identify cb and lineaged easily just by looking (like we can tell the genders without vising dragon page) Share this post Link to post
Posted August 1, 2016 OMG could this happen please please please. Seriously almost anything would be an improvement, but thank you TJ for trying to make the best improvement possible. Is the sorting expressive enough for what we want? Not at all. Could it be solved through the sorting system? y/n and please explain I think so. Personally I would be happy to be able to separate CB, projects, holidays, etc. into different tabs, or whatever. Would a rule-based sort (instead of manually placing each of your dragons) work? You could define the rules under which the sort works. I doubt it. Some rules would be somewhat easy to have work, if they could be possible, like CB, or has a lineage with holidays in it (if something like that could be a rule), but other things would not- ie I have a poem just made up of random dragons that I made before lineages were visible, so those I would have to sort manually to keep them together. So if we get rules we should get a manual option to override them. It WOULD be very helpful to be able to move things in blocks, though. Some of my dragons are well sorted and it would be nice to be able to move them into the new system, whatever it may be, all together so as to not have to redo them. What are the underlying problems you have with the current system? - Is it locating dragons? Something else? Mostly it is locating dragons. But also the system to even sort them is too unwieldy. Drag and drop just gets stuck and takes forever to scroll back and forth to move a new dragon from the beginning of the scroll to the end, especially if there are several like during holidays. The numbering system is great until you run out of numbers, or if you open a different system and then all your numbers are gone. That to me is why tabs made sense. If I could put dragons in each tab so that the overall number at any one time to deal with was less, that would make it much easier. Sort of like when you clean out your desk-- first you make piles of what goes where before organizing each pile. That's what I want to be able to do with the dragons. Is the problem Locating dragons? If so, can the problem be solved with some sort of search? Maybe, but that doesn't solve the problem of people (including myself) who want their scrolls to have an aesthetic as well. It would be nice for people to be able to see the poem and song I have without searching through the pages of my scroll. It would also be handy for trading to be able to say- look at my prizes on the prize tab, for example. Assuming the underlying problems requires breaking the list of dragons down into smaller subsets of dragons that can be sorted: - Are the groups unique? (ie can a dragon be in multiple groups) Please let them be in multiple groups. - Where do groups show up? - - Breeding? - - User-pages? - - Any action lists that involve dragons? Probably everywhere possible because people always come up with unique and clever things, so why limit it? How does one add things to groups? - Does this mechanism work for adding 10,000 dragons to groups? Maybe on the actions page for a dragon there is an option to add it, but also by sorting you can add multiples of dragons to a particular group. I would think you could add large numbers at once if you could shift-select during sort. Is there a size limit to Groups? Best option would be no, because see above about creativity and all, but as large a limit as possible if it is impossible for that to work. Does the solution hurt the visibility of certain dragons? (eg are dragons in a "non-default" group harder to find if you don't know what group they're in, or will people browse to non-default groups?) I guess the best option would be to have this be optional, both for the scroll owners and for everyone else. Are there specific features you'd like to see? It would be awesome to be able to have my scroll show up in such a way that people can easily find what they want. To me tabs or some similar way to separate groups does this. You know, being able to see the lineage of a dragon from WITHIN the sort function, whatever that ends up being, would be incredibly helpful. Otherwise you have to have multiple windows open, or make a long list of your dragons and where you want to sort them to, or keep going back and forth from sort. Also, being able to name the group a dragon belongs to would maybe work better than having to have rules to sort them with. For example, for holiday lineages you could say something like: Valentine checkers and then on the dragon's action page you could have a drop down menu of all the groups you have created, and then you could put that dragon into the group that way. Perhaps have a feature that then allows you to either have the dragons visually sorted into the groups on the scroll or not, and then a way to override that. Also a way to sort them visually within the group. Perhaps you could add to multiple groups, but then you also could choose the 'Master' group which is where the dragon shows up visually? Then on any action page you could choose which groups show up? This is sort of stream of consciousness at this point but maybe others can expand on it. Got to get to work! Share this post Link to post
Posted August 1, 2016 Is the sorting expressive enough for what we want? No Could it be solved through the sorting system? y/n and please explain No Sorts don't do what I want. I want groups that are separate from each other, so that I don't have to search thru 4500+ dragons to find the two I want to breed. I also want groups to separate lineage projects from each other and any other groups I might want to sort from each other. Would a rule-based sort (instead of manually placing each of your dragons) work? You could define the rules under which the sort works. I don't think so. What are the underlying problems you have with the current system? Locating dragons - Is it locating dragons? Something else? Plus the ability to separate types of dragons, lineage projects, extras, etc. Is the problem Locating dragons? Yes, one of the problems. If so, can the problem be solved with some sort of search? I don't think so Assuming the underlying problems requires breaking the list of dragons down into smaller subsets of dragons that can be sorted: - Are the groups unique? (ie can a dragon be in multiple groups) No, dragons should only be in one group. If a dragon needs to be in more than one group, the actual dragon should be in one group with a linked placeholder in any secondary group. - Where do groups show up? - - Breeding? Yes - - User-pages? Yes - - Any action lists that involve dragons? Actions should only show for individuals, not groups. Group actions is a different topic, like multiple fog/unfog. How does one add things to groups? - Does this mechanism work for adding 10,000 dragons to groups? A mass move function would be useful for some players, but I would only use it rarely. My main need is for moving one or a few dragons at a time; new lineage members, new caveborn breeding stock, etc. Is there a size limit to Groups? No, if a limit is needed, it should be in the number of groups allowed. But there should be no limit of how many dragons can be in a group. Does the solution hurt the visibility of certain dragons? (eg are dragons in a "non-default" group harder to find if you don't know what group they're in, or will people browse to non-default groups?) I'm not worried about what other folk see, as long as it isn't messy. I want to be able to sort my dragons into groups that I understand and know where to look for them. I should be able to name each group as I see fit, and being able to rename it would also be nice. Ideally, I would have one 'main' group that would show growing eggs/hatchlings and any unsorted dragons. All other dragons would be in seperate groups with simple names like: Main Collection, Holidays, Restricted Breeders, Non-dragons, Lineage Name, Lineage Name, Extras, etc. etc. etc. And I do NOT want pages within a group, all the dragons in a group should show on the same page, regardless of how many dragons are in the group. I HATE PAGINATION and have since it was introduced. Are there specific features you'd like to see? Once you sort your dragons into groups, you need to be able to sort those dragons within their grouping. All the sorts we have now should be included, and I would like an additional 'sort by generation'. Plus, each group should be able to be sorted without affecting any other group. So one group could be sorted by Default, another by name, another by color, etc. I'm not exactly convinced that a situation that results in six rows of tabs is actually solving the organizational problem. Experience suggests that people who don't actually have all six rows memorized are unlikely to scan all 50-ish groups. I find those 6 rows of tabs very organized and I don't have them memorized, but I do know what is in each tab. My tab names are simple, yet descriptive to me and I havn't had any complaints from other players asking for freebies, trades/sales or breeding requests. The majority of MS players LOVE their tabs and our only complaint is that we can't rename tabs... but the tech folk are working on that. Share this post Link to post
Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) I personally think that whatever we end up with, some sort of tags should be a part of it. As I said in the cave feedback thread, some basic and useful tags such as generation of the dragon, the dragon's breed, and if the dragon falls into one of the basic lineage formats (even gen, stair, spiral) should be pretty easy to generate automatically. Maybe even something more subtle like if it's a simple checker. This would cut down on how many dragons in a large scroll would need to be manually tagged. I don't think manual tagging can ever be done away with though, simply because people have given arbitrary values to specific groups of dragons, such as "members of breeding project X", that are very likely impossible to generate automatically, even with the scroll owner's guidance. (about the only exception would be if all members of breeding project X had something in their name that none of your other dragons did, and TJ had a function that let you put a given tag on all dragons that had a given string in their names.) The end result would be being able to filter all 4th gen even gen hellfires that are members of breeding project X. Is the sorting expressive enough for what we want? Not by itself. Could it be solved through the sorting system? y/n and please explain Maybe, see answer below. Would a rule-based sort (instead of manually placing each of your dragons) work? You could define the rules under which the sort works. Only if it was combined with tags. There are too many very arbitrary ways to sort your dragons that require knowledge of your dragons that only you have. A tags system would let you tell DC about that arbitrary knowledge, and then use that to sort your dragons (Eg: put all even gen dragons in front, sorted by breed, then all dragons that are NOT even gen, sorted by breed. Real sorts would be much more complicated, of course, but this gives an idea of the kind of thing that might be done) What are the underlying problems you have with the current system? - Is it locating dragons? Something else? I don't have a large enough scroll to have a real problem, so I'm going to let the people who do know what the problem is to answer this. Is the problem Locating dragons? If so, can the problem be solved with some sort of search? Yes. Tags would allow you to give the site the information that you would then want to search on, such as the breeding project that a dragon is a member of. Assuming the underlying problems requires breaking the list of dragons down into smaller subsets of dragons that can be sorted: - Are the groups unique? (ie can a dragon be in multiple groups) NO. Or, only yes if tags is combined with tabs as two separate systems. Tags are only really useful if you can tag a dragon with multiple ones. Tabs really only make sense if you can only put a dragon in one tab. I could see a fusion of tabs and tags as very useful. Tabs would help with the physical organizing of your scroll, while tags would help with being able to find the dragon or subgroup of dragons that you want. (with cyradis4's example of wanting all members of active breeding projects in a specific place, they could use the individual breeding project tags that are active to put those projects where they want them.) - Where do groups show up? - - Breeding? Yes, filtering by tags would be very useful when breeding. (and would somewhat override the idea of using fertility style search in breeding, since it would do the same thing only with user defined categories) - - User-pages? Yes. - - Any action lists that involve dragons? Yes, being able to filter by tags in fertility, for example, would allow someone to easily find the members of a breeding project that they want to use it on. How does one add things to groups? - Does this mechanism work for adding 10,000 dragons to groups? As I said above, the most basic categories (generation, breed, and basic lineage formats: spiral, stair, even gen, more?) shouldn't be too hard to allow people to add the tag automatically, which would cut down on the work of getting dragons into the system. But there would also need to be a manual way to tag dragons. Perhaps a good system would be to be able to set a new tag the user wants (breeding project X) and then mark every dragon that they want with that tag. Ideally with a way to filter by tags that are already in the system to reduce the list to make it more manageable. Another way, if a user is already using a naming system to keep things organized, would be to allow people to enter a string and add any dragon on their scroll whose name contains that string to that tag. (for example, all my spriters' alt offspring contain the string "althe" in their names, and I could use that string to create an "alt" tag) Is there a size limit to Groups? Tags no. Tabs, probably not. As scrolls of the heaviest collectors keep getting bigger and bigger, I can see running into size maximums being a real pain. Does the solution hurt the visibility of certain dragons? (eg are dragons in a "non-default" group harder to find if you don't know what group they're in, or will people browse to non-default groups?) I don't know. Are there specific features you'd like to see? Tags and the ability to filter by multiple ones at once (hellfire, even gen, 4th gen, breeding project X) and the ability to do this: (hellfire OR horse OR hellhorse, even gen, 4th gen, breeding project X) that would show all hellfires, horses, and hellhorses that meet the rest of the criteria. Edited August 1, 2016 by Pokemonfan13 Share this post Link to post
Posted August 1, 2016 I wasn't really expecting it to be the type of thing that people would formally answer. It's not a "questionnaire," it's mostly a source of discussion points. Especially since, looking at it a few hours later, I can already expand+revise it, which renders previous responses somewhat invalid. Is an idealized sorting expressive enough for what we want? The existing implementation isn't, but could the problem be solved through changes to the sorting system? What about a rule-based sort (instead of manually placing each of your 7000 dragons, define rules under which they sort? Otherwise, what is the underlying problem? Is it locating dragons? If the problem is locating dragons, what sorts of situations are people looking for dragons? If the problem is locating dragons, can the problem be solved with some sort of search? If so, what axes need to be searched on? e.g. Name ID Breed Parents Preset labels (e.g. growing, gen 3, sick, male) Custom labels (e.g. something tag-like) If it's not locating dragons (locating things is generally best solved via search), then assuming the underlying problems requires break the list of dragons down into smaller subsets of dragons that can be sorted: Are groups unique? (i.e. can a dragon be a part of multiple groups, or only one?) Where do groups show up? Breeding? User pages? Any action that lists dragons? How does one add things to groups? Does this mechanism work for adding 10,000 dragons to groups? Is there a size limit to groups? If not, see bullet point one with regards to "How do you keep ordering dragons within a group manageable?" Does the solution hurt the visibility of certain dragons? (e.g. are dragons in a "non-default" group harder to find if you don't know what group they're in, or will people browse to non-default groups?) Share this post Link to post
Posted August 1, 2016 Reposted from the Cave Feedback thread: Is sorting expressive enough for what we want? Most definitely not. The existing implementation isn't, but could the problem be solved through changes to the sorting system? Unlikely, unless you abuse the naming feature for tagging your dragons - and even then, things might get complicated rather quickly. What about a rule-based sort (instead of manually placing each of your 7000 dragons, define rules under which they sort? It sure would help, but not solve the problem. But it would be a nice feature for sorting individual tabs - or dragons with a certain tag. Whichever. Also, short on-site notes on the dragon that are only visible to the owner would help immensely, as it makes keeping an off-site document on your dragons obsolete and allows you to find the information on the dragon when and where you need it. Otherwise, what is the underlying problem? Locating dragons, knowing a certain dragon's characteristics (CB or lineaged? Which kind of lineage? Which generation? Mate for breeding project X, Y or Z? Other random stuff, like cool codes?) Is it locating dragons? If so, can the problem be solved with some sort of search? Yes and doubtful. How do you search for dragons with cool codes, for example, if you don't know the exact code? This is where either tags or tabs come into play. Assuming the underlying problems requires break the list of dragons down into smaller subsets of dragons that can be sorted: Are groups unique? (i.e. can a dragon be a part of multiple groups, or only one?) Where do groups show up? I don't see why a group needs to be unique. A dragon could be part of the CB group, part of several breeding projects and of the "rare dragons" group, for example. Breeding? Very helpful, although in most cases, the progeny list suffices. Unless, of course, you could also add some other features, like a "mates with no progeny" link on the view page or a lineage preview feature on the breeding page. User pages? Absolutely. Any action that lists dragons? Which would be what, Fertility? If you want to use Fertility, you should already know which dragon you want to target, as you'd have to find for breeding it anyway. And regarding BSA targeting hatchlings or eggs - you're limited to a very small number of those (compared to the size of your scroll), I think that's manageable without any help. Instead of adding groups to BSA pages, it would probably be much more feasible to add BSA links to the view page of the target adults. Just a simple line Use Fertility on this dragon that leads to a list of all available purples, similar to the way the "active transfers" page allows you to choose an available magi for teleport. How does one add things to groups? Does this mechanism work for adding 10,000 dragons to groups? Basically, simple things like generation and breed should be added automatically. If possible, even add the kind of lineage (EG, checker, stairstep, spiral staircase, PB), even though that's not even necessary IMHO. Everything else should be done manually. I think it would be perfect if you could do that both on a dragon's view page and on the page of the respective group. Is there a size limit to groups? What for? If not, see bullet point one with regards to "How do you keep ordering dragons within a group manageable?" Does the solution hurt the visibility of certain dragons? (e.g. are dragons in a "non-default" group harder to find if you don't know what group they're in, or will people browse to non-default groups?) Do they have to be visible? Some people would rather have some of their dragons hidden away to avoid being harrassed with breeding request - however "harrassed" is defined by the individual. The sorting is mostly needed as an organizing tool for the scroll owner, not for easier browsing by visitors. And, as the scroll owner, you probably will know your non-default groups by heart. Considering all that, the groups might need grouping, too. One group where you can find all breeds in alphabetical order, another one for generation count, a third for non-default groups with an optional 4th group for "lineage type", although those could be included with the non-default groups. Share this post Link to post
Posted August 1, 2016 I wasn't really expecting it to be the type of thing that people would formally answer. It's not a "questionnaire," it's mostly a source of discussion points. Especially since, looking at it a few hours later, I can already expand+revise it, which renders previous responses somewhat invalid. Is sorting expressive enough for what we want? The existing implementation isn't, but could the problem be solved through changes to the sorting system? What about a rule-based sort (instead of manually placing each of your 7000 dragons, define rules under which they sort? Otherwise, what is the underlying problem? Is it locating dragons? If the problem is locating dragons, what sorts of situations are people looking for dragons? If the problem is locating dragons, can the problem be solved with some sort of search? If so, what axes need to be searched on? e.g. Name ID Breed Parents Preset labels (e.g. growing, gen 3, sick, male) Custom labels (e.g. something tag-like) If it's not locating dragons (locating things is generally best solved via search), then assuming the underlying problems requires break the list of dragons down into smaller subsets of dragons that can be sorted: Are groups unique? (i.e. can a dragon be a part of multiple groups, or only one?) Where do groups show up? Breeding? User pages? Any action that lists dragons? How does one add things to groups? Does this mechanism work for adding 10,000 dragons to groups? Is there a size limit to groups? If not, see bullet point one with regards to "How do you keep ordering dragons within a group manageable?" Does the solution hurt the visibility of certain dragons? (e.g. are dragons in a "non-default" group harder to find if you don't know what group they're in, or will people browse to non-default groups?) Perhaps us 'formally answering' is an indication of how excited we are about this idea. I *truly* appreciate any and all effort towards making dragons easier to organize and find. I know that I for one would be very willing to help with the discussion on this-- I have zero coding knowledge but I do run a business and am not bad at organizing things. Maybe you need a task force of older players with a ton of dragons to come up with a list of suggestions? I'd be happy to help with this. Perhaps having a smaller group working outside of the big thread would help. To address your new points: Perhaps I don't understand well enough how rules work, but to me this idea seems pretty limiting. I really think we need the ability to override how things sort by rules if that is implemented. It would go a long way though. I love the tags idea as above. I have trouble locating dragons under the following circumstances: 1. Looking for a specific mate 2. Looking for a specific 'special' lineage like alt offspring. 3. Looking for dragons of a certain lineage. I don't see how a search function would really help in most cases. It would need to be able to include things that are very specific to me, like my name for a lineage, which is why I was thinking the group idea I posted above would work. It would need to include things like lineage, type of dragons in the lineage, if the lineage contained more than two breeds, specific ancestors, etc. I think most players are this specific, especially when they have been around for a while. Maybe if we could create groups/ tabs/ tags and then search ONLY within that, it may work. Regarding visibility- I want my scroll to show up a certain way. I want 'families' next to each other. To me only a search type function means this is not any easier to achieve. When you are asking about Share this post Link to post
Posted August 1, 2016 TJ - either you're getting too technical for me to understand or you're repeating yourself. *sigh* I'll summarize MY position. Is sorting enough? - NO Would a search help? - NO Would TAGS help? - yes, but not enough Do we need TABS - yes....... or sortable pages, or something that places dragons into seperate, specific groups Back when all my dragons were on one big page, I could use frozen hatchlings to seperate groups of dragons and use the Edit > Find function from my browsers toolbar to locate the dragon I needed. When you introduced pagination, you took that method away from us. And it sucks. I NEED my dragons in specific groups to play MY game the way I want to play it. Bouncing between 19 different pages is a PITA, because I have no clue what dragons are on a specific page. I have them Legacy sorted as best as I can, but they might as well be in one big jumble for ease of use, or lack thereof as it is. Example: I need to breed a red dragon with a gold.. what page are they on? Golds should be relativly near the front, so I guess and go to page 5.. cool, they were there, I got lucky. What about a Stripe dragon that is not part of my big breeding project, I guess page 12... nope, that one starts with Undines, so I missed by at least 1 page.. turns out they're on page 10, so I had to check 3 pages to find one dragon. That's pathetic. Now, if I had Tabs, those golds would be in a Tab labeled Metals. Reds and Stripes would be in Extra Caveborns and I could scroll down a single page to find the dragon I wanted. No guesswork involved and I'd know EXACTLY where to look every time. THAT is why I need Tabs. Labeled Tabs would make my game fun again, instead of being frustrated every time I want to breed a dragon. Share this post Link to post
Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) Cinnamin, why would tags not help your situation? It sounds like you want to be able to find a given dragon when you need it, and tags sounds perfect for that. If all your golds are tagged "gold" you can filter by the "gold" tag (and a generation tag if that helps narrow things down) and find the dragon you want. For the stripe (you mentioned it was CB?) you could filter by "stripe" and "caveborn" and have all your CB stripes on the page and choose the one you want to breed. I can see how being able to organize your dragons with tabs would be useful, but if we can only get one or the other, I just can't help but think tags would be better overall. Both would be ideal, for sure. Edited August 1, 2016 by Pokemonfan13 Share this post Link to post
Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) What about a rule-based sort (instead of manually placing each of your 7000 dragons, define rules under which they sort? Unfortunately I don't think any sort of rule-based sort would be complicated enough for the diverse needs people have. I know my own sorting system wouldn't work (I put 1 copy of each adult and s2 frozen at the top of my scroll, in my own manually decided on sort of "rainbow," then put all extra copies of adult sprites in the same order after. With an extra copy of frozen hatchies at the very bottom and my chickens and dinos separating things as needed. No rule based system is going to help me there, even though to me it's a very carefully managed scheme >___<), and a lot of other people with big scrolls seem to have distinct families / special lineaged dragons / breeding projects they'd like sorted out that, again, I don't think any broad rules would be able to properly catch. If the problem is locating dragons, can the problem be solved with some sort of search? If so, what axes need to be searched on? I'd like both a search and tags, honestly. I really like how the current fertility search works. I do think including preset and custom labels is a good idea as well--the ones you mentioned make sense for sure. A few people spoke about lineage type as a default label, but there's so many it might be hard to do. Perhaps there could simply be a tag for number of ancestors? That would kind of help with guesstimating lineage type quickly. It would also be cool if there was a flag for thuwed for spriter's alt or prize descendants (including the CB Soulpeace and Hellhorse and Holly prizes--any prize!) but I understand if those aren't possible. As for why I'd like both, I think keeping things like lineage projects in tabs would be tidier and more user-friendly, while conversely having a search function would be nice for letting people who want to browse certain parts of my scroll do so quickly. Although, I guess having tabs would kind of achieve that... so if it has to be one or another, I'd vote just tabs. Although, you know where search would REALLY come in useful? If we could use it on the breed action pages. Heck yah. Are groups unique? (i.e. can a dragon be a part of multiple groups, or only one?) Multiple groups. Where do groups show up? Clickable links above the clickable scroll page number links. How does one add things to groups? Does this mechanism work for adding 10,000 dragons to groups? Should be an account setting under /sort. Add a "manage groups" option, possibly in the same current custom / alternate custom / legacy format we have now. And yes, moving 10,000 dragons would be possible in alternate custom sort just as it is now (drag and select). Is there a size limit to groups? I'd say no, but... if there has to be one, maybe it can be either half the number of dragons on the scroll or 2,500. Or maybe a better way to handle it would be to just limit the number of groups you can create. (10? 25?) Does the solution hurt the visibility of certain dragons? (e.g. are dragons in a "non-default" group harder to find if you don't know what group they're in, or will people browse to non-default groups?) Why not just keep everything a person owns visible in the /user tab, just as we have now? The groups would be extras, but they wouldn't be removing the original format. If people wanted perhaps when organizing their main scrolls (through the current system we have now), there could be an option to drag-and-drop the various groups you have into order to make keeping your main scroll tidy like your groups quite easy. Also, a thought on how groups / tags would work with breeding. If we get groups, I think the breed action should still show you ALL dragons at first, but possibly with a checklist of the various groups so you can disable certain ones you don't want. IE, I could disable an "inbred" group, or only enable a "Spirit Ward x Ember" group for members of that project. As an alternative to this, just have all dragons appear but add the ability to hide certain dragons from a dragon's breeding list, or alternately select certain dragons to hide from everyone's breeding lists... Edit: Oh, oh! Perhaps there could also be an option to hide certain groups from being seen by others. They would, of course, always be visible to you. (And, conversely, all dragons would always remain visible on your main scroll page unless it's hidden) Edited August 1, 2016 by angelicdragonpuppy Share this post Link to post
Posted August 1, 2016 A little quick question about tags... Would the tags appear automatically when the new system is implemented or would each user have to go through and tag them Share this post Link to post
Posted August 1, 2016 A little quick question about tags... Would the tags appear automatically when the new system is implemented or would each user have to go through and tag them Well, [insert only TJ can know for sure comment here], my guess would be certain tags (i.e. Generation, breed, name) would appear by default, but custom tags would have to manually added. Share this post Link to post
Posted August 1, 2016 I would say that sorting is expressive enough for me. It's how the dragons are displayed that isn't expressive enough. Even having my dragons sorted by breed, I still have to guess at a page to find them - and I'm rarely right on the first or even second try. Tags would only be useful if I can search/filter for multiple tags at once. Tags on tumblr quickly became rather redundant because I use them to try and help find posts if I want to see them later. But only being able to search for one tag at a time, posts quickly become buried under each other, as I've reblogged around 13k things by now. I would really like it if certain things because automatically tagged, such as generation (heck, I'd like to see that on the dragon's view page). Share this post Link to post
Posted August 1, 2016 With tags, I would love if there are things that could be automatically added. However, I also wonder...how general or specific should tags be. If tags are specific to the point of finding one specific breed of dragon...I might actually like that (especially if I can use that for breeding). As mentioned with tabs about limits... Will there be any limits on the amount of tags you can use? Share this post Link to post
Posted August 2, 2016 I wasn't really expecting it to be the type of thing that people would formally answer. It's not a "questionnaire," it's mostly a source of discussion points. Especially since, looking at it a few hours later, I can already expand+revise it, which renders previous responses somewhat invalid. Is sorting expressive enough for what we want? The existing implementation isn't, but could the problem be solved through changes to the sorting system? What about a rule-based sort (instead of manually placing each of your 7000 dragons, define rules under which they sort? Otherwise, what is the underlying problem? Is it locating dragons? If the problem is locating dragons, what sorts of situations are people looking for dragons? If the problem is locating dragons, can the problem be solved with some sort of search? If so, what axes need to be searched on? e.g. Name ID Breed Parents Preset labels (e.g. growing, gen 3, sick, male) Custom labels (e.g. something tag-like) If it's not locating dragons (locating things is generally best solved via search), then assuming the underlying problems requires break the list of dragons down into smaller subsets of dragons that can be sorted: Are groups unique? (i.e. can a dragon be a part of multiple groups, or only one?) Where do groups show up? Breeding? User pages? Any action that lists dragons? How does one add things to groups? Does this mechanism work for adding 10,000 dragons to groups? Is there a size limit to groups? If not, see bullet point one with regards to "How do you keep ordering dragons within a group manageable?" Does the solution hurt the visibility of certain dragons? (e.g. are dragons in a "non-default" group harder to find if you don't know what group they're in, or will people browse to non-default groups?) I think for the time being sorting is expressive enough. I could work with a rule-based sort. If locating dragons via search is implemented, I would use the search by name, breed, preset labels, and custom labels. I would have dragons be able to be part of multiple groups and I would have these groups show up on the user's scroll as well as on a dragon's individual page or under any action that lists multiple dragons. I'd have them added similar to the way that the sort options are handled now or via checkbox. I suppose it would work with adding 10,000 dragons, whether by "select all" or some other function. No preference as to size limit. I don't think it hurts visibility either way as many users who want this are already very familiar with their scrolls. Share this post Link to post
Posted August 2, 2016 Okay, here's my two cents: Is the current sorting system enough? NO NO NO. Would a search help? Maybe somewhat, for looking for specific dragons, but it wouldn't help for everything that is wrong with the current system. Also, search would probably have to be rather broad to make it work... Would we be able to search for "2nd generation" or "stairstep" or "inbred"? Probably not. A rule-based sort may help, but I do not think it would solve everything. The issue is not just locating dragons, but sorting dragons. I have certain dragons that I want to keep in specific locations on my scroll, but with the current sort options that is not possible. Things get moved around when I acquire new dragons. And the drag-and-drop method is *extremely* buggy. I really think that the best solution would be tabs or tags. I'm more partial to tags myself. Are groups unique? Dragons should be able to be under multiple groups. For example, my dragon Alexz Johnson IB I would want marked under "special", "Royal Blue", and "Inbred". Groups should show up wherever the game lists dragons. How does one add things to groups? Does this mechanism work for adding 10,000 dragons to groups? I think checkboxes would work well enough. It may be a huge undertaking when it is first implemented, but after that one big mass-adding I don't see people having to deal with large groups at once. Is there a size limit to groups? No, I do not think there should be a size limit to groups. Someone suggested 1,000 but I have more then 1,000 dragons to put under my "Royal Blue" group. Does the solution hurt the visibility of certain dragons? (e.g. are dragons in a "non-default" group harder to find if you don't know what group they're in, or will people browse to non-default groups?) I think if people are interested enough they will take the time and effort to browse non-default groups. If people aren't going to take that time, they probably wouldn't take the time to go through the multi-page sort that we have now either. Share this post Link to post
Posted August 2, 2016 Is the current sorting system enough? NO NO NO.The question isn't "is the current sorting system enough," it's whether a sorting system could possibly be expressive enough. Extending what we already have may possibly be easier to understand than layering new things on top of it. Would a search help? Maybe somewhat, for looking for specific dragons, but it wouldn't help for everything that is wrong with the current system. Also, search would probably have to be rather broad to make it work... Would we be able to search for "2nd generation" or "stairstep" or "inbred"? Probably not. Why do you say probably not? Why couldn't that be a thing? If you could search for those things, would it solve your problem? The issue is not just locating dragons, but sorting dragons. I have certain dragons that I want to keep in specific locations on my scroll, but with the current sort options that is not possible.I think that's still one-layer removed. What is your actual goal with placing dragons in a specific location on your scroll? What is the purpose of doing so; what benefit does it confer? Share this post Link to post
Posted August 2, 2016 (edited) Is the sorting expressive enough for what we want? No, I can't really see a way in which the current system would work for all the problems encountered. Could it be solved through the sorting system? y/n and please explain I do not believe so. I already have my dragons sorted by generation and mate (using the custom sort), but it is still not very good. I have 8 pages (set to maximum) of dragons, and I know people have many more pages than that! Collectors may not have much of a problem, but breeders do. I have to sort by ones with mates (by gen), ones that need mates (by gen), CBs, BSA dragons and other non-breeders, etc. If I get a mate for one, I have to locate it, sort it together with its new mate, lather, rinse, repeat with each dragon. It's not ideal for keeping track of lineages, especially as they grow longer. Right now I am naming all my bigger lineages with lineage name and a number, plus whether I have offspring from them already. I would love to not have to put the generation in my dragons' names, too, but for easy for sorting, finding, etc. I have to. Would a rule-based sort (instead of manually placing each of your dragons) work? You could define the rules under which the sort works. If dragons could be tagged, it would be amazing! Then breeders could tag dragons in a particular lineage with a specific tag and find the entire lineage that way. I would also want some sort of multi-layer sorting/search, though. I don't want to pull up every single dragon with a specific tag in some random jumble. If it stayed in scroll order in the search (e.g. if you have the order be breed and you bring up five breeds with the tag 'cavebred', it would still show up by breed and just exclude all without that tag). I would also not mind tabs if you can label the tabs and do a sort by tab. It would be easy to go to a particular tab (such as a 2nd gen purebred tab) and find all by that. It would be up to the dragon owner to tag, but honestly, if someone really wants their scroll searchable, they will put the work in. If not, it's unlikely the scroll will be useful to a viewer, anyway. The groupings are really going to be most beneficial to the scroll owner. What are the underlying problems you have with the current system? - Is it locating dragons? Something else? Locating dragons, keeping mates with each other, sorting out which dragons are what generation or in what project, and keeping track of which ones have already been bred for what lineage are all problems for me. It's especially troublesome for dragons without dimorphism. Is the problem Locating dragons? If so, can the problem be solved with some sort of search? That is only one of the problems. See above. Assuming the underlying problems requires breaking the list of dragons down into smaller subsets of dragons that can be sorted: - Are the groups unique? (ie can a dragon be in multiple groups) I would really like if they were allowed to be in multiple groups. - Where do groups show up? - - Breeding? - - User-pages? - - Any action lists that involve dragons? I think user pages and breeding would be enough for me. Finding BSA dragons is simple enough already. Even just being able to search+custom sort my scroll exactly how I want would be enough for me. How does one add things to groups? - Does this mechanism work for adding 10,000 dragons to groups? If I could add to groups, I would honestly take having to tag/move/whatever each by hand. It would take a while, but I would move my projects first, and, in the end, it would be worth it. So really any mechanism would be fine by me. Is there a size limit to Groups? I don't think there needs to be unless it's a strain on the servers to have groups over a certain size. If users want to sort them to a group of 1000+, that is their headache. Does the solution hurt the visibility of certain dragons? (eg are dragons in a "non-default" group harder to find if you don't know what group they're in, or will people browse to non-default groups?) I know that most games people start in default groups and browse to where they want. Are there specific features you'd like to see? Tags or tabs with the ability to add dragons to multiple groups would be amazing. Edited August 2, 2016 by harlequinraven Share this post Link to post
Posted August 2, 2016 Is the sorting expressive enough for what we want? It fits my needs for now, but it could be better. Also once I get more dragons it will be much more awkward. Could it be solved through the sorting system? y/n and please explain Well, I already have them sorted (for the most part) how I want, but like I said, once I have more dragons it will be much harder. I'm not sure if I can say what would be better, but Alternate Custom Sort (what I use right now) definitely becomes annoying as you get over 1,500 or so. Would a rule-based sort (instead of manually placing each of your dragons) work? You could define the rules under which the sort works. I'm not sure... I tend to keep my dragons unsorted until I name them and because I am terrible at naming my dragons that rarely happens quickly. I can only see that as being difficult to specify in a rule-based sort. Also, since I sort my dragons by my lineages and ones that don't belong in lineages, I can see that getting confusing, since it can result in having some of one type of dragon in the main lineage group and a few off toward the end. What are the underlying problems you have with the current system? - Is it locating dragons? Something else? I have my dragons pretty well organized, mostly I'm just hoping for something more efficient, I guess. Is the problem Locating dragons? If so, can the problem be solved with some sort of search? No, I have no trouble locating my dragons, nor do I see myself ever having trouble with that, due to the way I organize my dragons and the fact that I use outside sites to organize my breeding and other lineages. Assuming the underlying problems requires breaking the list of dragons down into smaller subsets of dragons that can be sorted: - Are the groups unique? (ie can a dragon be in multiple groups) This is the main thing I'm interested in. I would love to be able to put them in different tabs/groups by lineage, frozen hatchlings, holidays, etc. - Where do groups show up? - - Breeding? That would be nice, yes. - - User-pages? Sure! - - Any action lists that involve dragons? Why not. How does one add things to groups? - Does this mechanism work for adding 10,000 dragons to groups? I wouldn't mind at all moving them by hand, whether that's creating the group and choosing from a drop-down box, adding tags to each dragon, or whatever other method. It would probably take a while but it would be absolutely worth it to get them organized exactly how I want. Is there a size limit to Groups? I don't mind if there is, I could make a second group for the dragons, or a third, and so on. I have no real opinion about this. Does the solution hurt the visibility of certain dragons? (eg are dragons in a "non-default" group harder to find if you don't know what group they're in, or will people browse to non-default groups?) /shrug/ my dragons will be organized how they are whether we get groups or not, so I suppose if anyone is confused by my groups they'll be confused by my scroll in general. Are there specific features you'd like to see? Tabs would be nice. Not really anything in particular, though. Share this post Link to post
Posted August 2, 2016 Is the sorting expressive enough for what we want? There's a lot of different sorting mechanisms thus far which seem to work pretty good to me. I tend to Sort By: Breed most of the time as it puts less strain on me figuring out where I want to put things. Could it be solved through the sorting system? y/n and please explain n/a Would a rule-based sort (instead of manually placing each of your dragons) work? You could define the rules under which the sort works. I'd like this option, if I would be able to define a rule such as: "Place X dragon next to others of its breed IF X dragon is an adult." Something like that would be very, very helpful to me. I despise sorting my newly grown adults to their correct position, especially if I have a ton of hatchlings that grow around the same time. Sometimes 50+ stack up at the top of my scroll because I'm so lazy. Laziness at its finest! (I put the two questions below together) What are the underlying problems you have with the current system? - Is it locating dragons? If so, can the problem be solved with some sort of search? There does seem to be a problem with locating dragons, for a lot of people. Even sorted by breed, sometimes I find it difficult to find the breed I'm looking for. For now I've developed a system of naming one of the dragons "X Dragon" so I can use CTRL + F to find the location of that particular breed. If some sort of search was added to DC, I'd like results such as Name and Breed for sure. Maybe even search results by Codes? or Gender? or Caveborn Dragons? The latter ones are more for searching in general, and not exclusively for the Sort page. Assuming the underlying problems requires breaking the list of dragons down into smaller subsets of dragons that can be sorted: - Are the groups unique? (ie can a dragon be in multiple groups) In my opinion, no. I would prefer unique groups IF the option were to be implemented. - Where do groups show up? - - Breeding? No thank you. It's hard enough to find a mate as it stands. A search feature on the Breed Actions page would be a much better solution. - - User-pages? While viewing our own scrolls, sure. I'd never use a grouping feature, so I'm fine with it. While viewing other peoples' scrolls, no thank you. I don't like "groups/tabs/tags." To me, things would get a lot messier if these were included. A lot of people say it would organize stuff better, but I personally wouldn't like it. To me, groups/tabs/tags would sort things in an "off" order. I know everyone has their own style of play and their own sorting style, but I personally hate messy and "off." I rarely check scrolls because of this. Yes, blame my severe OCD. - - Any action lists that involve dragons? Nothing I can think of would make this work for grouping. How does one add things to groups? - Does this mechanism work for adding 10,000 dragons to groups? I'm sure there would be some sort of tagging system for groups. 2nd Gen, 3rd Gen, Caveborn, Yellow, Green, Pygmies, Drakes, Two-Heads... you name the tag, it's going to be someones' style of grouping. Is there a size limit to Groups? I'm not sure... Can you have 1,000 groups if you so chose? Can you group multiple dragons in different groups? How would that impact someone viewing scrolls of others, if a tagging system was introduced? Would you be able to look at their groups and tagging? Would you have to see the same dragon in 20 different groups if someone tagged them that way? Could you view someones' scroll in a "regular" manner without the tabs or groups? Are there specific features you'd like to see? I personally would like a second Breed Sort. A Breed Sort that is based on the actual breed name 100% of the time. I use the Breed Sort as it is now, and sometimes I have a difficult time finding certain breeds because they're labeled as something completely different than their actual breed. I get why Holiday's are "Christmas 2010," etc but I do not get why some breeds are sorted by a different name. It would be a lot of work if I myself tried to sort my dragons based on their ACTUAL breed name. I just wish there was an "auto" option to do this sort of thing. A Search Feature that can search by just about anything you type into it! Fertility is a decent--yet not perfect--example of searching for something specific. In my perfect world, tagging and grouping would not be an option on DC. I have a huge problem: OCD. I thought having pages was a bad idea. I still want my whole scroll on one crisp page, even as it keeps growing. Call me bonkers! Share this post Link to post
Posted August 2, 2016 I'll probably come back in the next day or so to be more thorough (it's getting very late here so apologies if this isn't so eloquently put), but for now I just want to add my 2 cents - Sorting for me is NOT primarily about locating a dragon; I have a filterable excel spreadsheet that I can use to locate the code of a given dragon fairly easily which while not ideal I suppose, it works for me (also for the most part I life mate, so once bred, they are always on top). My main issue is...I guess you could say aesthetic? I want to be able to physically separate certain groups from each other - either as tabs, or boxes a la Pokemon, or 'files', whatever you wish to call it. If I can have subheadings within that group, and then tags (visible or not doesn't bother me) so much the better - eg Group:Christmas; Subheading Solstice-Shadows; Tags G1, outbred etc. Some of this is admittedly for locating dragons, but most of it is having it clearly organised and separated so I know clearly and easily what dragons I own. It's more about how my collection looks and feels than how easily I can find something. At the moment, even when well organised - which it is for the most part - it feels like a mess because all the groups I have in my head flow into each other with no delineation at all. Share this post Link to post
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