Change the Way Gemshards Breed

[Tecca]

I adore Gemshards. They're absolutely gorgeous Easterns, and one of my favorite breeds. However, I have hesitated to use them in lineages because of the low (one-third) chance of getting the color Gemshard I want. Still, the chance to breed other colors is a neat mechanic and should not be removed altogether.

 

Since most people will want the parent's color for checkers and such, I propose making Gemshard offspring have a 50% chance of parent's color, and 25% chance each of the other colors. That will at least bring it up to the same chance of parent color as for Nebulas (which have 50% chance for each of two colors, when influenced), while retaining the opportunity to become another color for the lineages that rely on changing Gemshard colors.

 

 

If both parents are Gemshards, just take the same ratio (2:1:1) from each parent and split it in half. Nothing complicated. So a red x blue Gemshard pairing would have 25% chance of red from father with 12.5% of other colors, and 25% chance of blue from mother with 12.5% chance of other colors. For a total of 37.5% red, 37.5% blue, and 25% green.

 

[wondergirl888]

I have mixed feelings about this. If you were making a lineage with the same color of gemshards, it would help. But if you were trying to create a lineage where each generation was a different color, it would be more difficult.

[Fiona]

I'm opposed to this. TJ and the gemshards' creator knew the importance of lineages to the game when the breed was created and released and chose the existing mechanic anyway. Since they knowingly chose the mechanic I think that should be respected and left alone.

[Odeen]

Absolutely not. Gemshards are meant to breed completely randomly because the dragon's color is not heritable.

[Clya]

I do not support.

I rather like how the Gemshards breed now, and this will add more complexity (in fact just reading what you wrote confused me, then again anything with numbers right now will confuse me). It will also make it harder to make lineages with different colors. I would much rather attempt the 33% percent than have a slightly higher 37.5% percent and a lower chance to get the other color.

 

To me it seems much more effort than it's worth.

[The_Impossible_Girl]

I would rather not have this implemented. I like how the type of Gemshard is completely random. It adds an element of surprise to breeding/catching Gemshards.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Absolutely not. Gemshards are meant to breed completely randomly because the dragon's color is not heritable.

Can you tell us what does influence the color? Would you be ok with a BSA that utilized whatever that mechanic is to increase the odds of a certain color?

[Obscure_Trash]

I'm opposed to this. TJ and the gemshards' creator knew the importance of lineages to the game when the breed was created and released and chose the existing mechanic anyway. Since they knowingly chose the mechanic I think that should be respected and left alone.

Agreed.

 

But to give my own opinion, not just what the creator (who has now posted)/TJ thought...

 

Now, I don't do too many gemshard lineages (don't have a ton of cbs), but it's not like breeding checkers or anything else is impossible.

I've experimented with a few different mates for this guy: https://dragcave.net/progeny/sgjUX and tbh, prefer a gemstone that isn't the parent's color, since the gems changing colors kinda goes well with the wonkiness of having a spriter's alt in a line.

 

I do get where you're coming from in supporting this, but hey, we've dealt with multi-color dragons before, and I don't think it really hurts us too much to have gems work the way they do. ^^

Edited June 16, 2016 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Odeen]

Can you tell us what does influence the color? Would you be ok with a BSA that utilized whatever that mechanic is to increase the odds of a certain color?

No I would not be okay with a BSA that influenced the color.

[silver_tiger]

No, I don't support this. Random colors is the way Gemshards are supposed to function--if we change that, we might as well change the way Nebulas work, too (I don't want that to happen either, btw). I can definitely understand the frustration if you're trying to get a blue and your eggs give you nothing but green, for example, but there are plenty of other dragons that work that way in this game, like alt colors and even hybrids, the only difference with that last one is you can tell right away by the egg. Breeding has always taken patience, annoying as that sometimes is, and I want it to stay that way.

[Fuzzbucket]

Agreed.

 

But to give my own opinion, not just what the creator (who has now posted)/TJ thought...

 

Now, I don't do too many gemshard lineages (don't have a ton of cbs), but it's not like breeding checkers or anything else is impossible.

I've experimented with a few different mates for this guy: https://dragcave.net/progeny/sgjUX and tbh, prefer a gemstone that isn't the parent's color, since the gems changing colors kinda goes well with the wonkiness of having a spriter's alt in a line.

 

I do get where you're coming from in supporting this, but hey, we've dealt with multi-color dragons before, and I don't think it really hurts us too much to have gems work the way they do. ^^

Indeed we have

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/ELIIa

http://dragcave.net/lineage/Grv6c

http://dragcave.net/lineage/Mp8rZ

http://dragcave.net/lineage/duV2o

http://dragcave.net/lineage/DbwT1

 

and many more.

 

And I still don't support this - the more so now that Odeen has said her piece. Sometime I think people want everything to fall into their laps with no effort or rubbish luck.

[anetofstars]

I support this. I don't use gemstones in lineages because I can never be sure of what I will get. I don't use nebulas for the same reason. Too bad, because they are elegant and colorful.

[purplehaze]

Even as someone who is currently trying to do a checker with green Gemshards and green Nebulas, I cannot support this. I welcome a few challenges along the way. If everything is too easy, where is the fun? If you don't see it as fun and don't like the way they breed, then there are literally more than 100 other breeds you can use to build your lineages.

Edited June 26, 2016 by purplehaze

[AGYK]

Spriter said no, that's that. /thread

[Starscream]

I'm opposed to this. TJ and the gemshards' creator knew the importance of lineages to the game when the breed was created and released and chose the existing mechanic anyway. Since they knowingly chose the mechanic I think that should be respected and left alone.

I agree.

 

Thanks to odeen for sticking to guns about not allowing a BSA to influence this.

[cyradis4]

I agree.

 

Thanks to odeen for sticking to guns about not allowing a BSA to influence this.

I'd hardly call the stance nearly all all artists have taken as "sticking to her guns". After all, if BSAs to alter colors were common, then yea I could understand it. But there are no BSAs to alter color outcomes, and only one suggestion to do so, so its not like there's much "sticking" needed. And that one hasn't exactly had a hugely warm reception! Neither has this one, actually.

 

As for suggestions that have affects on breeding outcomes, yes those are more common.... and far more desired, because there *is* a major flaw in breeding. It should not take more time to breed a common x common 5th gen than it does an uncommon x uncommon... but... it does, unless the two breeds are the same *age*. This issue has led many lineage builders to completely abandon lineages with very commons, which exacerbates the problem. A viscous cycle it is.

 

Having said that, I'm not feeling any need to change how Gemshards work. The 1/3rd can be irritating, but it also adds a bit of difference. And I've had a half-dozen Nebulas in a *row* all go the wrong color, so I know the frustration. But seeing as Gemshards are commons, its just irritating. Now if they were uncommons or rares.... That would be different.

 

But unlike general breeding, where you get 30+ of one common to 0 of another time after time after time, pair after pair after pair.... there is no major discrepancy between the colors produced in Gemshards. It is roughly 1/3rd, and it really does seem with them just a matter of luck. Well, luck and the breeding issue that already exists but is a separate issue.

 

So no support, and it would have been no support even if Odeen hadn't posted.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[tardograd2]

I agree, but the egg would have to be changed to have colours

[Fiona]

We have a number of breeds that have unique mechanics to get specific results. Gemshards are just one of them. Then there's Coppers, Lunar Heralds, Sunrise/sets, Stripes and etc. Having these different mechanics in play adds variety and flavor to the game.

 

Stripping one of the breeds of its unique mechanic nibbles away at the variety and flavor of the game. I'm in favor of adding more unique breeding mechanics, not taking any of them away.

 

So I'm very glad Odeen has said "No way!" to this suggestion. If someone proposed a change to Copper breeding that stripped away or hobbled their unique breeding mechanic I'd respond the exact same way she has.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

It would be really nice if there was some way to know / influence the color a bit, though. Gemshards are really pretty but having 5+ in a row miscolor for one project alone isn't fun, it's a waste of time and effort that makes me not want to use them.

[Odeen]

It would be really nice if there was some way to know / influence the color a bit, though. Gemshards are really pretty but having 5+ in a row miscolor for one project alone isn't fun, it's a waste of time and effort that makes me not want to use them.

It might be more convenient for you, but I've already said that hatchling color isn't and won't be subject to external influence.

[olympe]

As a compromise, would it be acceptable if a bred egg somehow showed the color, or if there was a BSA that would tell you what color of gemshard would hatch from an egg?

 

After all, it must be very frustrating to hatch egg after egg after egg only to find out it was all in vain. And it's not like getting a certain color of gemshard is like an alt lotto, where the *rare* alt can be worth quite a bit in trading.

[Odeen]

As a compromise, would it be acceptable if a bred egg somehow showed the color, or if there was a BSA that would tell you what color of gemshard would hatch from an egg?

 

After all, it must be very frustrating to hatch egg after egg after egg only to find out it was all in vain. And it's not like getting a certain color of gemshard is like an alt lotto, where the *rare* alt can be worth quite a bit in trading.

All gemshards lay solid brown eggs regardless of the parent or offspring color, and I'm pretty sure I already addressed the question of a BSA.

[olympe]

Well, right now I only know that you addressed the question of a BSA to influence gemshard colors - but that's not what I asked about.

 

Also, it's not necessarily the base color of the egg I was talking about, but maybe by making one gem color on the egg shell a little more obvious than the others. Or making the biggest gem on the egg be the color the baby dragon will have. That sort of thing.

Edited August 12, 2016 by olympe

[Marrionetta]

There's a million little things the player has control over. Can't we just leave this one breeding to chance?

 

It would seem our definitions of fun are perhaps different. You seem to believe that anything that delays gratification is not fun. I disagree.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

There's a million little things the player has control over. Can't we just leave this one breeding to chance?

 

It would seem our definitions of fun are perhaps different. You seem to believe that anything that delays gratification is not fun. I disagree.

I work on lineage projects all the time. Having issues breeding the right egg (or getting no eggs at all!), replacing refusals, collecting the CBs, slowly building up through the generations... there's a lot of delayed gratification and I still enjoy it. I had a ember x spirit ward x crimson project that took literally 100 spirit ward eggs to get 1 crimson. I understand the need for patience and that getting everything instantly isn't rewarding.

 

However, with gemshards (and to a lesser extent nebulas, which are at least 50/50), the delayed gratification feels arbitrary and is actively keeping me from doing other things in the game because I have to wait to see how the eggs hatch. A refusal or wrong breed or accidental APing (like the 3G Silver from Blusang checker I autoed recently >__<) are things that I can work to fix and be fairly confident I can work through. Randomly getting a miscolored Gemshard five times in a row is, however, something I have no control over and disheartening. As you say, different strokes for different folks, but for me personally it goes from feeling if I'm patient and hard working I'll be rewarded to feeling like a painful random dice roll with every try.