Breeding Guardians of Nature with Each Other.

[olympe]

If I could decide I'd made them:

Still summonable and Avatar-breeding when bred to other breeds

but able to breeding true (GoNxGoN->GoN)

while the bred GoNs must stay on one's scroll and never reach adulthood(auto-freeze if not frozen on S1 stage), bred GoNs don't count to the GoN limit of 3 and are not limited. They are just for sprites and for being related to some adults. Obtainable only by GoNxGoN breeding, never by GoNxOther breed.

 

This would allow:

Freezing GoNs for sprites without wasting the ability to get 3 adults.

Making sprite collecting based families of 5: MF adults, MF S2s, S1, while frozens being related to the parents possible.

Having 3 adults and some frozen hatchlings without rising the limit.

Would not affect trades (as can't leave scroll)

In general would not affect anything we already have, exept for simply adding bred frozens to breeder's scroll only. I'd even exclude them from GoN ratio as they can't possibly contribute to the poll. I'd give the bred GoNs separate ratio as if they were a separate breed. So summoned GoNs are not affected at all.

 

 

 

And I'm actually looking forward to see GoNs breeding true. To GoNs being true guardians of nature.

 

Also, based on the name of the breed, I think GoNs should rather breed true ONLY and be unable or unlikely to breed with any other dragon breeds. That's what would make sense of a guardian of nature. To guard natural laws of reproduction as well.

Animals mostly breed true, they normally cross-breed much less than breed true.

That would still leave the problem of people having to be able to summon 2 GoNs of different gender that do not refuse each other - which can literally take years! Which still leaves us with too many people being distressed for being left out of a part of the site, namely GoN and Avatar breeding. (Not that I'd mind all that much, considering I have 3 adult GoNs on my scroll... It still smacks of being unfair to way too many people.

 

Apart from that - how dare you tell me what I can or cannot do with MY dragons!?!

If a dragon is mine (meaning "rightfully on my scroll) - how dare you decide that I cannot let it grow up or gift it to someone less fortunate? Because that's what I'd want to do if GoNs could breed GoNs. I don't care about collecting frozen hatchlings, not at all. I only want adults. It's fine for you to want a full set of m/f adult, m/f S2 and an S1, but that's not what everyone else wants. If you "deserve" to have 5 (or more) GoN sprites of your choosing, why don't I?

 

(If this comes across as me being angry - damn right I am! Because this suggestion only serves one kind of play style while it totally disadvantages others.)

[SkylerFarrier]

You are comparing a fungi to an animal (at least I am pretty sure a dragon is more closely to be an animal than a fungi)? Sorry, but that doesnt make sense.

Of course, the main issues I see with this suggestion are:

What if the GoNs refuse (yes, all of them)? I can see many killing of GoNs if this occurs.

How much the rate would be to get an Avatar (or GoN if it becomes possible) from a GoN couple?

If you can get GoNs from GoNxGoN, could you trade that offspring? Or would you have to keep it until death/freezing/adulthood? I vote for the 2nd one just in case.

She argued that GONs do not breed within "the laws of nature". I gave an example of what "laws of nature" actually exist.

Animals? Okay, how about some salamanders? They're lizard-like amphibians.

"Tremblay's salamanders breed with male blue-spotted salamanders from March to April. Eggs are laid singly or in small masses of 6-10 eggs on debris at pond bottom. The males' chromosome contribution only stimulates the egg's development; its genetic material is ignored."

Both of these species are within the same genus. It makes perfect sense in that non-mammals are more complicated than simple male/female. You can't argue that it's "illogical" for GONs to have a biological reason for being unable to breed with themselves.

 

What if the GoNs refuse (yes, all of them)? I can see many killing of GoNs if this occurs.

... Brr, now I am very much against this idea.

 

 

 

 

That would still leave the problem of people having to be able to summon 2 GoNs of different gender that do not refuse each other - which can literally take years! Which still leaves us with too many people being distressed for being left out of a part of the site, namely GoN and Avatar breeding. (Not that I'd mind all that much, considering I have 3 adult GoNs on my scroll... It still smacks of being unfair to way too many people.

 

Apart from that - how dare you tell me what I can or cannot do with MY dragons!?!

If a dragon is mine (meaning "rightfully on my scroll) - how dare you decide that I cannot let it grow up or gift it to someone less fortunate? Because that's what I'd want to do if GoNs could breed GoNs. I don't care about collecting frozen hatchlings, not at all. I only want adults. It's fine for you to want a full set of m/f adult, m/f S2 and an S1, but that's not what everyone else wants. If you "deserve" to have 5 (or more) GoN sprites of your choosing, why don't I?

 

(If this comes across as me being angry - damn right I am! Because this suggestion only serves one kind of play style while it totally disadvantages others.)

This isn't about players being unable to have their desired playstyle. By the same argument, isn't it "unfair" that people can't breed M/M and F/F dragons?

On the Wiki for GONs, there is an IRC chat quote from TJ about the mechanics of GONs.

<PrincessKiara>: TJ, why can't we abandon summons/Guardians of Nature anymore?

<TJ09>: PrincessKiara, because they're meant for you.

<TJ09>: They aren't meant for your friend, when you summon an egg, it's yours.

This is simply the way obtaining a GON works, how it's always worked. It's like the badges on a scroll, or managing to create a Neglected - they are things to achieve, to be proud of.

 

Raising the GON limit to 5 on a scroll would be cool. That much I support (but not if it means being able to breed GON/GON).

Edited September 9, 2015 by SkylerFarrier

[Sir Barton]

Not in favor of them producing an avatar because of the neutral affiliation of the GoN as previously stated. Not in favor of them breeding true since the summoning feature is the base of their lore.

 

"Gods" breed with mortals and create demi-gods. Off hand, I can't think of a God who mated with another God to create a God. Ares and Hephaestus ... maybe, but there are other accounts that say Hera produced them on her own without Zeus' help.

 

The old Gods mated with humans, Titans, and various other entities instead of one another. This is just my speculation, but I believe that's because the combination of two Gods would create a creature greater than themselves, and I doubt they would want to produce something that would give them the boot. Don't believe a GoN would feel very different.

[olympe]

Not in favor of them producing an avatar because of the neutral affiliation of the GoN as previously stated. Not in favor of them breeding true since the summoning feature is the base of their lore.

 

"Gods" breed with mortals and create demi-gods. Off hand, I can't think of a God who mated with another God to create a God. Ares and Hephaestus ... maybe, but there are other accounts that say Hera produced them on her own without Zeus' help.

 

The old Gods mated with humans, Titans, and various other entities instead of one another. This is just my speculation, but I believe that's because the combination of two Gods would create a creature greater than themselves, and I doubt they would want to produce something that would give them the boot. Don't believe a GoN would feel very different.

Oh, come on, the Greek gods were very well able to produce more gods with each other. Gaea and Uranos are the parents of the "Titans", which are essentially gods. The Titans Chronos and Rhea are the parents of various "gods", Zeus and Hera among them. (Yep. Talk about inbreeding.) Ares most certainly is the son of both Zeus and Hera, although the "origin" of his siblings might be unusual. *cough*

 

 

However, I still don't favor GoNs breeding true, since the CB ones can be very hard (and tedious) to get.

[Fiona]

but able to breeding true (GoNxGoN->GoN)

while the bred GoNs must stay on one's scroll and never reach adulthood[/b](auto-freeze if not frozen on S1 stage), bred GoNs don't count to the GoN limit of 3 and are not limited. They are just for sprites and for being related to some adults. Obtainable only by GoNxGoN breeding, never by GoNxOther breed.

Unutterably opposed to auto-freezing. I don't mind the idea that the limit be raised to 5 to accommodate those who like to freeze all stages but don't you tell me I have to in order to have the same number of GoN as you.

 

And I'm opposed to them breeding more GoN simply because they are summoned, not born in the same sense as other, lesser dragons. Yes, that may not make sense to everyone else, but I like it.

 

I don't much like this suggestion at all. I don't think GoN x GoN would breed a lesser dragon such as an avatar. They breed those by consenting to consort with lesser dragons.

[Fuzzbucket]

Unutterably opposed to auto-freezing. I don't mind the idea that the limit be raised to 5 to accommodate those who like to freeze all stages but don't you tell me I have to in order to have the same number of GoN as you.

 

And I'm opposed to them breeding more GoN simply because they are summoned, not born in the same sense as other, lesser dragons. Yes, that may not make sense to everyone else, but I like it.

 

I don't much like this suggestion at all. I don't think GoN x GoN would breed a lesser dragon such as an avatar. They breed those by consenting to consort with lesser dragons.

I'm 100% with fi. They are special, obtained in a special way, and - just, no.

[Imzadi]

GoNs cannot produce eggs with neutral affinity dragons. GoNs are themselves neutral, so they cannot produce offspring together. Unless you can talk TJ into changing something fundamental about GoNs, this is not going to happen, and as far as I am concerned, it shouldn't. I like it as it is.

[Ha-Ki]

I think it'd make more sense if it produced a random avatar. Logic could be that the GoNs sense which force is most needed at the time, and they produce avatars instead of GoNs because they are formed from a more mundane method than magical creation.

I was going to suggest this as well. I'm not opposed to GoN x GoN breeding avatars, but I don't like the seasonal thing.

[CNR4806]

I am of the opinion that we're veering way off course with the bred GoN discussion. The premise of the avatar breeding suggestion is that GoNs don't PB, and the point is to give people something to breed from PB GoN pairs, while not enabling something that makes a notable impact on the site like allowing GoNs to breed true. Remember, Avatar breeding has already happened, and the suggestion only adds yet another possible combo to the mix.

 

I suggest that we stop dealing with this "BUT GONS MUST BREED TRUE ACCORDING TO MY IMAGINATION OF THE LAWS OF NATURE" silliness and move on.

 

I think it'd make more sense if it produced a random avatar. Logic could be that the GoNs sense which force is most needed at the time, and they produce avatars instead of GoNs because they are formed from a more mundane method than magical creation.

I agree with this as well, though I'm not going to change my stance that a further increase of GoN limit is needed.

[olympe]

Maybe we could have a 4th kind of avatar for neutrally aligned GoN mates, something like an Avatar of Balance? This would solve both the issue of GoN x GoN as well as the issue of GoN x neutral aligned regular dragon.

[Odeen]

Maybe we could have a 4th kind of avatar for neutrally aligned GoN mates, something like an Avatar of Balance? This would solve both the issue of GoN x GoN as well as the issue of GoN x neutral aligned regular dragon.

The three avatars embody the elements they govern, either symbolically or physically (like seriously I could write an essay on the symbolism we put into each of those sprites), on top of the fact that they are meant to be distinct derivatives of the guardian of nature itself. The GoN embodies balance and neutrality in its form every bit as much as they embody their dominions. An avatar of balance would look like...... Well, it'd look like a GoN, or a thrift store discount GoN. The idea would not really be novel enough, IMO.

[olympe]

Personally, I'd love to read this kind of essay. (And it might be a great addition to the wiki, too.) So, PM me maybe?

 

For me, the GoN not only embodies balance and neutrality, but very much also sheer elemental power. The last of which would need to be lessened for a hypothetical avatar of balance. Balance can also mean showing the balance between opposites (Yin and Yang, day and night, winter and summer, poison and healing, fire and ice, oceans and dry land - to name but a few.)

[TCA]

a thrift store discount GoN

I want to see this now.

[Syphoneira]

Speaking as a person who still hasn't managed to Summon her 3rd GoN and has her male tied up as a life-mate to a lucky find: I've always wished that TJ would have allowed for 2 pairs and a spare in total with the advent of the Avatars, so that some year we could hope for mates for certain lines which require GoNs, which was a logical off-shoot... if GoNs could breed together, that would tie up 2 of a maximum of 3, which would kinda suck for some of us, so I'm kinda neutral...

[Lady Artemis]

I support this but I don't think the avatar outcome should be known; I think it should be random.

[Ace1362]

Perhaps they could breed a completely new type of avatar that would be unbreedeble because it has no element like a neutral avatar, but with a low chance and still the avatars would be breedable only with elemental affinity

[Odeen]

Perhaps they could breed a completely new type of avatar that would be unbreedeble because it has no element like a neutral avatar, but with a low chance and still the avatars would be breedable only with elemental affinity

This was discussed while the avatars were being made. The avatars are basically "unbalanced" corruptions of the GoN's neutrality; they display elemental traits as exaggerations of their parent's neutral ones. A neutral avatar would basically be...a GoN Lite, and not particularly interesting as I stated on page 2.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Odeen