ANSWERED:Paid Perks

[Fuzzbucket]

Maybe you should read the article referenced by danicast. What it clearly says is that the site owners are losing money because of the ad blockers.

 

And would be useful to read this one as well:

http://www.destructoid.com/half-of-destruc...t--247904.phtml

 

This is going off-topic but I'm thinking of creating a suggestion to not allow access to DC to people using ad-blockers instead of a subscription.

That's all very well, but what will you do about kids who simply can't choose to pay or to disable the security things on their computers (managed by their parents.)

 

TJ has already said that what he gets from ads as currently viewed more than covers site costs, anyway - and there have been some VERY noxious ones showing up, as he cannot control what google allows through.

 

I still believe if every DC member donated 1 USD or 1 Euro, paid perks would not even have to be discussed. I think even a 12 yr. old can afford that.

 

They don't have to be in terms of TJ needing cash. As TJ has said more than once - this thread is just him being interested in what people would and wouldn't pay for.

 

And a 12 year old might have a euro - but how would s/he pay it - 12 y/os can't have paypal accounts and many of their parents wouldn't co-operate..

Edited August 2, 2015 by fuzzbucket

[danicast]

That's all very well, but what will you do about kids who simply can't choose to pay or to disable the security things on their computers (managed by their parents.)

 

That's exactly why my bro-inlaw installed a firewall with ad blocking and script blocking in our home server, to protect his children from any malicious advertise, malware or malicious site.

[Stormcaller]

OK, I've read both the articles about ads and am not impressed. One was some website moaning that their patrons were blocking ads and they were losing revenue. That does not seem to be TJ's problem with DC.

 

The second article cited just two instances where malicious ads caused problems. I refuse to be terrorized by the implication that every ad can be dangerous and so should everyone else. If someone did, they might not want to go online at all for fear of being attacked.

 

 

[SullenCat]

To the contrary, let's look at the ad removal feature. Those people are "paying" money to use DC. In the almost three years since I launched the feature, I have never once acted differently towards someone who does pay to remove ads vs someone who doesn't--and I can be sure of this, because I've never explicitly looked up who pays vs who doesn't. Similarly, I've never seen someone who pays for ad removal try to "pull rank," either in public or in private.

I would say that adblocking is traceable and subscriptions are as well.

 

That's all very well, but what will you do about kids who simply can't choose to pay or to disable the security things on their computers (managed by their parents.)

It takes very little to add an exception for DC to an adblocker and every 13yo (minimum age for an account) is able to do that.

 

Edited August 2, 2015 by SullenCat

[Jazeki]

I would say that adblocking is traceable and subscriptions are as well.

 

It takes very little to add an exception for DC to an adblocker and every 13yo (minimum age for an account) is able to do that.

Actually, not all people have access to personal computers. I know that in the libraries here that I work at, the patrons are not allowed to do anything to the computers. The same goes for students using campus computers. Most public and educational facilities use their own ad blocking services, but you cannot expect that everyone knows how to or can play around with browser software.

 

Also, TJ noted that he has not looked into who has subscriptions. It can be done, but it can be seen as a privacy concern.

 

Edit: And to answer that question about contribution, people may donate if they want, but it is not anyone's concern as to who contributes to the site and who doesn't. This is an optional feature that is being discussed. You can't expect little kid to donate money. Many families play this game and parents allow their young children (under 13) to play. TJ is well aware that everyone cannot pay and he does not expect everyone to.

Edited August 2, 2015 by Jazeki

[SullenCat]

Do you mind telling me how does someone that adblocks and does not subscribe to ad-removal contribute to the website? Or is that ok to be a free-loader?

 

Edited: by the way, all this off topic is coming from posts sustaining that advertising should take care of the revenue. Like this:

Frankly, as much as I hate to say it, if TJ needs the money, I'd rather see a few more ads on the site than have him to anything to raise money that would involve changing the game play in any way.

Edited August 2, 2015 by SullenCat

[Fuzzbucket]

I would say that adblocking is traceable and subscriptions are as well.

 

It takes very little to add an exception for DC to an adblocker and every 13yo (minimum age for an account) is able to do that.

NOT if your parents have set it up so that you can't. And not ( as some people here have posted) if your parents say that if you DO allow ads, they will no longer let you use the computer.

 

Sure - most ads are harmless, but some DO contain malware, and there have been frequent posts here about thoroughly offensive ads that show up. Dating agencies with scantily clad women. Violent gaming ads. If you have the energy - search old threads. Many others here will recall them.

 

And for the record, younger kids are allowed accounts if their parents say OK. But their parents may NOT say OK to their seeing ads.

 

TJ has made it quite clear that we are free to do our own thing. Kudos to him. That attitude is why I donate from time to time. Because he is a decent human being who doesn't try to force everyone into the same mould. He can trace this stuff - and he doesn't. He wouldn't even be able to trace when I do chip in - as I don't use the same info for paypal as I do for other sites - I don't choose to have my paypal info tied to the sites I visit,. so I use different emails. Who doesn't ? It's common sense. Paypal is less hackable than a game site.

[danicast]

Actually, not all people have access to personal computers. I know that in the libraries here that I work at, the patrons are not allowed to do anything to the computers. The same goes for students using campus computers. Most public and educational facilities use their own ad blocking services, but you cannot expect that everyone knows how to or can play around with browser software.

 

I'm not a technical person but in my home network I have no access to many things, several actions requires admin password (which I don't have) like install softwares and remove softwares. So I know, based in my own experience that not all users can choose what they are going to install or not. All I do is turn on my computer and use it. I never installed anything.

[SullenCat]

My latest posts had only a goal. To confute that advertising, even worse increasing advertising, is the solution.

Basically: someone said that he/she would prefer to see more ads in the site than to go the paying route; if adblockers are being used, and the trend is to increase that usage, more ads will be useless.

Edited August 2, 2015 by SullenCat

[herobrine745]

I don't see what's the problem with adblockers, when TJ has said that he gets more than enough from ads to run the site. Even with people who use adblockers.

People can do what they want.

[SullenCat]

I don't see what's the problem with adblockers, when TJ has said that he gets more than enough from ads to run the site. Even with people who use adblockers.

People can do what they want.

Do you mind pointing me to the post where he said that he gets more than enough from ads to run the site?

And in case you didn't notice, the trends point heavily to reduction of that revenue for every site that survives thanks to ads.

[herobrine745]

Do you mind pointing me to the post where he said that he gets more than enough from ads to run the site?

And in case you didn't notice, the trends point heavily to reduction of that revenue for every site that survives thanks to ads.

https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=90515

I can't see anything on the first post, but the second post quotes him.

Also, there are a lot of people on dc. I don't know how many people don't use adblocker, but I'll bet it's a lot.

[SullenCat]

https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=90515

I can't see anything on the first post, but the second post quotes him.

Also, there are a lot of people on dc. I don't know how many people don't use adblocker, but I'll bet it's a lot.

Sorry but that's not a TJ's post and the person didn't quote him either.

 

Furthermore, that was 5 years ago, things changed quite a bit, for worse:

http://arstechnica.com/business/2010/03/wh...sites-you-love/

[NoO2]

Here are some types of Paid Perks that do not influence game play:

- Special Badge or Highlight on Forum/Scroll

- Possibly Ability to Change Scroll/Forum Name without Recreating (with limits for people attempting to defraud perhaps)

- Normal Fundraiser Gifts: Special Mug, Bag, Magnet, Signed Photo/Picture

- More Inbox Space on Forum

- VoiceMail Recording from TJ or Particular Artist/Mod

- Signed Thank You Card

- Random Auctioned real or computer generated personal Items Donated by Artists or Players (funds go to site or split with donator if artist or mod or something)

- Recording of Various Staff Singing Happy Birthday or Something Else (can be recorded across computers so they don't have to get together to do this)

- Personalized Art Stuff, which kinda goes with the Above

- Timed Skpe Chat with.... whoever.... wants to volunteer

- Pictures of various volunteer people doing silly but very G or such rated antics of your choice

- And if you happen to live in an area with someone, I guess you could always get a Lunch or something with a group of people, although you might also be able to get this for free so to be less creepy maybe a Skype lunch idk...

 

This theme isn't new.... But since someone suggested to me there weren't a lot of people posting perks that had no game benefit from them, I thought I'd just make a list to show that this can be done without going down the slippery slope into the evils of pay to win gaming.

This os the only way i can accept paid perks in dragon cave,with it or not, dragon cave would be nice,i don't want dragon cave to be like Elsword,FR,AQWorlds,etc.

 

 

DLC got in my mind,but i wasn't sure if it would be good or bad.

 

Affirmative DLC ideas:

 

-Discountinued dragons

 

-Dragon version of april fools eggs

 

-New biomes with new eggs

 

- and <3 Eggs

 

NOTE:Every ideas i mentioned will be recived as an egg

 

I'm not saying i want a DLC for dragon cave or not,just making sure you don't get the wrong idea,and sharing my opinion!

[herobrine745]

Sorry but that's not a TJ's post and the person didn't quote him either.

 

Furthermore, that was 5 years ago, things changed quite a bit, for worse:

http://arstechnica.com/business/2010/03/wh...sites-you-love/

Alright, if you say so. The first post is blank for me, no idea why. But "TJ09 said: "There's certainly no need to apologize for being unable to donate. The primary reason I added a donation button is user request; as the first post says, ads are enough to cover costs."" by a mod seems credible.

 

I don't use adblock, because I can't be bothered to use it. That's because freedom of choice.

 

To see if people using adblock badly affect the site, you'd need to see how many people use it vs overall users. And finding out which people do could be counted as a privacy violation.

 

[Fuzzbucket]

We are all (including me !) way off topic. TJ asked what we might be prepared to pay for. Just out of curiosity. That was all that was asked. Not whether he needs money, not whether the ads are enough to support the site (though he has said they are, more than once.)

 

What would we be prepared to pay for ? Not that it will even happen - he was playing devil's advocate.

 

And as I say - for me, that would be nothing that would actually affect GAME PLAY - no exclusives that cost actual cash money.

 

Possibly access to a way to customise your site skin, stuff like that.

Releases of the minigames to play all year round.

The chance to change your tree or your wreath (that would be popular, give the glitches... )

[cbussiere]

Just tossing in my two cents...

 

I wouldn't mind players being able to pay for things like one extra egg slot, changing a dragon's gender, removing a BSA cooldown, and unfreezing hatchlings (as long as they grow up immediately afterward so they can't be traded), and changing your username. Things that are useful but don't give paying players a significant advantage.

I would be angry if you could pay for things like prizes/CB alts/past holidays, removing breeding cooldowns, or undoing refusals. This would feel unfair to unpaying players, especially buying dragons.

 

I hate the idea of a minigame that gives you currency, because from my experience those get very annoying very fast, because you generally feel like you need to play it so you have the perks of having money, and they're almost always tedious games. I don't want any currency on DC aside from the dragons themselves.

[SullenCat]

We are all (including me !) way off topic.

You're right on that. So I'll focus on the topic:

The goal of my original post was to get opinions on the concept of some parts of the site having a paid component to them (which may or may not be accessible without paying).

I really like the concept of some parts of the site having a paid component.

[BlitzDrake]

~Removed~ Edited August 2, 2015 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Guillotine]

I think that as long as a paid perk doesn't affect gameplay it shouldn't matter. A cute badge, the ability to change your username, maybe the ability to change an adult's gender (since that affects very little, especially if it's restricted to dragons that have not been bred yet)... Nothing major, but things that would be good incentives.

[Stormcaller]

I really hate the idea of anything other than merchandise costing money. But then, I'm 71 years old and living on a limited retirement income. I have to watch what I spend.

 

But then too, there are a lot of other people with money issues. This includes children, students, and people with young families. I believe someone mentioned that there are players who have several children playing as well.

 

I think you will find that there are a lot of them playing this game because it is, not only free, but a game of quality. It's fun, slow paced, and you can even count on the forum being a clean and wholesome place to pass the time. If any of this were changed, DC would be priced out of their range.

 

Even if things are offered for sale that are optional, but still a part of game play, the game would have been changed. More does not necessarily mean better. It's a level playing field here now and if that changes, then it's not going to be good old DC any more.

 

Edit: To respond to what BlightWyvern has posted while I was typing, yes, I have been in the trade threads but prefer the gifting ones. Many of us do. Check them out for their niceness quotient.

 

As far as chat goes, I don't do chats anywhere. If you don't feel comfortable, just stay away like I do.

 

I've been hunting for a CB Gold egg for the whole five years I've been playing and have never been quick enough to catch one. This is not the end of the world for me because I have a lot of other fine dragons. And, it still gives me something to aspire to; I know someday I'll catch one.

Edited August 2, 2015 by Stormcaller

[Guillotine]

That's why I'm against most gameplay-related suggestions for IRL money stuff myself (freelancer with very little stable income). I'm only okay with adult gender change because it's something you can do at an earlier stage with Pinks, which are pretty common and easy to breed/find in the AP (although it would likely be best implemented only if Influence was tweaked to 100% success).

 

Scroll name changes don't affect gameplay, so I don't see the problem with it, and badges are purely cosmetic.

[Obscure_Trash]

So are you completely against paid perks? Are there some things you'd be okay paying for? Are you completely for paid perks? What about things that aren't exactly "perks" (such as ad removal)?

 

The goal of my original post was to get opinions on the concept of some parts of the site having a paid component to them (which may or may not be accessible without paying).

 

Actually raising more money is in no way part of the motivation; I have a full-time job that isn't DC, so finding ways to make DC more profitable isn't in any way necessary.

 

This discussion is not about TJ's finances. It is about your opinions on paid components in DC.

 

Any further discussion on adblock or turning DC into a business will be considered off-topic spam and warned for. Thank you for getting back on topic.

 

A final reminder to debate the topic, not attack other users.

[Shieara]

I'm fine with paid transactions. I might pay for an extra egg slot or an item to reduce the time for a hatchling to mature on rare occasions.

 

I doubt I would pay for a specific dragon since I can get them through other methods, but I have no problem with them being offered. I can't see how it would affect me at all other then potentially through the ratios.

[SullenCat]

Having thinking a bit more about the subject and reading other suggestions, here are examples of what I would be willing to pay for:

- Annual membership to grant access to additional biomes with different breeds from the ones found in the actual biome.

- Extra slot.

- Package of points to be used for things like faster incubation, hatchling incubation, gender change, unfreezing hatchie, reviving etc.

- Purchase of special dragons like CB Prizes or previous HM (holidays etc.) . Those CBs could be untradeable, unlike their offspring.

 

I would not be interested on pens, backgrounds or anything else not directly related to the game.