ANSWERED:Paid Perks

[Tawanda001]

"All of this means you'd need some pretty damning evidence to prove that simply introducing more payments to the site would create "haves" and "have nots," even if the payments didn't affect gameplay"

Opinions probably vary quite a bit based on how people interpet the the part I underlined.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Tawanda001

[DarkEternity]

I think that the extra money could also be used to hire extra coders, pay for upkeep and increase the number of servers potentially ameliorating the lag that people experience and potentially the features/interactivity of the website.

 

Some features which haven't been implemented yet such as Egg Freezing, the store and Ascendance, dry periods in between releases or wanting to see more events. The income and revenue from that could be used to fund that. I'm not saying that DC will cease receiving updates just because it's free but you might be able to get more of them even if they're not from TJ. At least that's what I've seen other sites do (hire extra coders) and therefore be able to generate new content and updates. Even if it's not on a constant basis.

 

Even if the money isn't being 'kept' by TJ that could better the experience for us.

Edited August 3, 2015 by DarkEternity

[AnanoKimi]

I think that the extra money could also be used to hire extra coders, pay for upkeep and increase the number of servers potentially ameliorating the lag that people experience and potentially the features/interactivity of the website.

 

Some features which haven't been implemented yet such as Egg Freezing, the store and Ascendance, dry periods in between releases or wanting to see more events. The income and revenue from that could be used to fund that. I'm not saying that DC will cease receiving updates just because it's free but you might be able to get more of them even if they're not from TJ. At least that's what I've seen other sites do (hire extra coders) and therefore be able to generate new content and updates. Even if it's not on a constant basis.

 

Even if the money isn't being 'kept' by TJ that could better the experience of us.

Then why not donate? Why not instead of forcing a site that is free to use to become pay to play remain free and instead we encourage users to donate, or to buy merch from the DC store thing we have?

[Tehya Faye]

I don't think optional pay features inherently turn a game from free-to-play to pay-to-play. Even games that are pay-to-win are still free-to-play, and there's a line one can avoid crossing to prevent a game from becoming pay-to-win.

 

I personally don't care much one way or another. As long as I don't feel like I have to spend money on this site to get the most out of it I'm fine.

[Prince_Xanthius]

As long as I don't feel like I have to spend money on this site to get the most out of it I'm fine.

Pretty much this.

 

So no exclusive dragons, no way to drastically increase speed of hatching, no ability to buy rares at a faster rate than free players (assuming the implementation of a store). An extra biome seems...iffy and if done would have to be done VERY carefully.

 

But things like genderswap of unbred adults, scroll name change, mass fog/incubate, maybe the ability to tab dragons (though I'd rather this free site wide) etc, I don't have a problem with.

 

I'd actually rather the subscription was 'improved' to add things to the package - i.e ad removal, mass BSA use, mass naming, an extra breed slot, maybe the extra biome access (though not really a fan of that). There have probably been a few other things suggested that would fit (1 genderswap per month maybe?). Basically a lot of 'convenience features' that make a subscription worth having, but don't disadvantage free players. You pay for a monthly or yearly subscciption, and when it runs out, so does you're access to the premium features unless/until you renew it. Don't have anything to buy via microtransactions at all

[DarkEternity]

Could you hire coders from that alone?

 

More sources of funds => more ability and propensity to pay workers => more content => more donations/sources of funds.

 

And if there are more workers the job gets done faster. That's just the way it is.

 

Just because there are things available to buy it doesn't mean that people are forced to spend money upon something. Customers are able to exercise discretion. For example before purchasing from a Store Envy account I might not choose to purchase.

 

To address your latter point, I think that digital goods are far less risky than physical ones. When you manufacture the good you might end up with excess stock even if it cost money to manufacture it. Furthermore, if it was mailed to the wrong address or if the post office misdelivered or mishandled the item that can cause issues for both the purchaser and the seller.

 

Just to be absolutely clear: I utterly hate any f2p content. I have dropped games like Bulu monsters, Dragon Story and Dragon Vale because I hit a paywall where you were forced to either pay to proceed or you could never get past it. I also feel extremely wary about even installing those games knowing that they have been designed to have addictive procedures and that somewhere some day you'll hit the point where you can't get past anything without paying.

 

But I wouldn't say no to paid content in DC because I've played this game for five years and I have faith that TJ could strike that balance between F2P and paid content whether or not he's playing the devil's advocate or not (and besides it's quite fun to argue for both sides.) And besides I'd feel bad arguing that he shouldn't monetise the game (even if people like spriters and the community contributed to it - as I said in my very first post in the thread that I felt uncomfortable about the idea of monetising DC because so many people including spriters have contributed/volunteered to make the art, unlike many sites where a singular or several artists are hired explicitly for the purpose of making art to sell. I feel that that is a MUCH MORE valid point to use than to say that TJ shouldn't change things because that might make the game unfair for me but it might actually make the game fairer for people other than myself).

 

And finally, because so many other sites which I feel that SHOULD they have monetised they WOULD not have closed have died recently I feel especially nervous about DC's future. I'd rather a site be monetised than eventually die as in the former case I and everyone else would lose my progress. Maybe if in the case that it suddenly BECAME impossible for TJ to maintain the site someone else would be interested in maintaining it.

 

You either live long enough, I think so see the hero become the villain but I guess you could also live long enough to see every single other site you love fall into a pit and die.

 

What's worse is that you not only see it happen but you get to see them repeating the same mistakes all over again.

 

When I thought to myself - maybe if Geomon fixed their business model the sheer price that hosting the data to their users cost would be enough to keep that up.

 

When Valenth died, I thought to myself that I was lucky that I didn't play that game because of how depressed the members felt. I heard Digis died too. And some other sites whose names I don't remember.

 

When VDex was dying, I thought to myself, did donations ever save that game?

 

Sure DC's fine now. Those other games all started out fine too. But they're all dead and gone and buried now (or mostly buried at any rate.)

 

Maybe none of you have never experienced a site dying on you and believe that somehow it won't happen to DC. But believe me it can happen overnight and yes the site funds might be fine now and yes everything might look FINE and PERFECT right now.

 

But it might not always be that way.

But by the time you notice it it might already be too late.

 

I mean, when I saw this topic one part of me thought that it was already beginning again which might seem extremely pessimistic to all of you, but believe me I have learned to have some low, low expectations about how long my favourite sites are going to survive.

 

Doom and gloom is all the rage for me right now so I guess I should just stop posting since NOTHING will really convince me that DC is out of the danger zone even if there have been continued reassuarances that everything is fine. I mean why else was this topic raised? I really can't imagine any other reason and can't really convince myself that TJ was just playing the devil's advocate. To be frank, I guess I couldn't care less about paid perks or whatever additional features they would be (because I really don't care for F2P and don't really see them contributing much of a positive effect towards anything trade related OR the community but if it means that DC won't kick the bucket I think that all these other points are fine. I've been playing for five years and DC has been a fixture for me for that many years, I guess I just don't know what I'd do if it all ends.)

 

I just really think that it's important to support F2P not because of the effects that it will have on the game but because there might not BE a game left to worry about if some form of it is not implemented. I can never agree with CNR4806 that I would rather the game die than be funded in that way. To me, losing the game would be the ultimate loss and I can't conceive of anything worse happening to Dragcave. F2Ping a game is such a minor sacrifice compared to the death of DC.

 

If DC died I'd never again be able to read anyone's posts again or communicate with you guys like this again. I'd miss all of you, the people I've disagreed with and the people I've agreed with. Because it's been a fun five years.

Edited August 3, 2015 by DarkEternity

[Syphoneira]

If I had money to spare, I'd have been donating long since - but the only reason I'm online at all is that I have a computer from better days and can ride on my room-mate's wireless.

 

There are a lot of people in that position, on a global basis, already not having enough to really get by on, including those who are disabled; elderly; raising kids on dwindling paychecks while costs rise; loaded with student debt and working maybe several part-time minimum-wage jobs for rotten peanuts while unable to even frame their shiny new/tattered and dusty degrees... not to mention the kids playing here.

 

There's a HUGE market for an easy, enjoyable game which anyone can play - and get away from RL for a while - and DC, with so many advertisement views built into the game, might just as well have been planned to take advantage of the revenue possible with this system.

 

 

People have been losing interest in DC in great part because the biomes are plugged up with blockers (which could, for example, be bunged to the AP to become an asset instead, at low time) and often slow-to-unmoving apart from the shuffles, so that Cave hunting is boring;

 

because only the fastest can catch the most in-demand CB dragons which then effectively vanish so that people with slower refreshes cannot catch or even see them and also then are shut out of various beautiful lines and lineages;

 

with much of the 'invisible-to-most' dragon supply snatched up by the fastest in far higher numbers than would otherwise be taken by them, as trade fodder for 2nd gen Prizes initially barely produced by dragons owned by literally a few members lucky enough to win one, creating a long-running, damaging scarcity situation and a two-tier membership only recently improved, to any perceptible degree;

 

and with the RL wealthier able to afford better computers and faster internet, RL inequity already follows the bulk of the membership into even once-more egalitarian games, making most of the members have-nots even in their leisure fantasy fun-time in a virtual world.

 

Allowing those with more spare money to purchase hard-to-get/special dragons/separate servers for better connection speeds/extra egg-slots/reduced times for breeding, etc. with real money won't fix that - it will make it worse. DC goes from free-wheeling play to Monopoly with a relative few having advantages, to that relative few having as many further advantages as they care to buy with 'extra' real money - the same thing as is happening in our political systems, our countries and lives. This is not relaxing and fun for most of us.

 

Why not actually start to fix the Cave problems using Suggested solutions which do not shut out most members, such as having the untaken biome eggs 'rolling off' into the AP to come up as lower-time desirables, let word get out so that members come back to have actual fun hunting biomes with variety and sufficient of the most-desirable dragons appearing so that the average player again has a chance, with enough time and effort involved, of being able to actually enjoy the thrill of catching literally anything Dropping in the Cave?

 

The old ratio system hasn't worked for years, having long since been outgrown by the site, and even the patch of the biome-to-AP dump could, I suspect, make quite a difference over time.

 

This would be more in the nature of basic site maintenance, I should think, although admittedly speaking as One Who Knows Nothing About Coding Complexity.

 

But since site attendance and hunting are the real money-makers, does it really make sense to suggest that TJ cut back on these to allow a few to pay for advantages, while referring to other member as 'free-loaders' for bringing money in indirectly, by ad refreshes, rather than directly, when the site was apparently designed to operate that way?

 

TJ himself has said that this is not for extra revenue, but apparently to 'make the game more fun'; with this suggestion, it's only more fun for a few with spare cash, less than no fun for the already disadvantaged without enough money - to be outright segregated in some suggestions, as with pay-only biomes (serving what purpose if not having special dragons in them, outside of Releases, when having 3 people in a biome means even less movement apart from shuffles? Gold frames and velvet curtains on the no-peon side? lol) - and it also takes away from the game itself, so that money can buy exclusive privilege without the privileged putting in the time and effort that the regular player must while still without getting anywhere because there's not enough to go around with it piling up at the top and valued only BECAUSE there's not enough to go around, in part because of biome blockage preventing any real variety from appearing.

 

Experienced people have in the past volunteered to help code stuff or do whatever without apparently being taken up on it - this is TJ's baby, his creation, and I don't know (duh, obviously just guessing, lol) whether he'd even want to hire other people to work on his site - has he said he would, or wouldn't? If not, why assume that he would, if some people were to pay a little more for some exclusive advantages?

 

Most of us came here for the dragons - why ruin the game with MORE Wall St. wealth-based ideology where the dragons are only to be valued as regarding what they'll bring in trade, rather than what they are and are needed for, as themselves, by the majority of members?

 

 

TLDR: no, I don't support bringing in additional advantages for a few who can afford to spare cash to make the 3rd-class citizens into 4ths, lol. Been there, done that, don't need to see more of it here.

[StormBirdRising]

I am in favor of paid perks. I might not always be able to avail myself of the paid perks but I think it would enhance the Dragon Cave experience for a lot of people who would be able to use the paid perks.

 

Life is about choices and priorities. I might choose to pay for certain perks and not for others, but I think we should all be given that choice.

[Ruby Eyes]

I might choose to pay for certain perks and not for others, but I think we should all be given that choice.

You'd need to give some other people money then, in order to give them that choice

[Fuzzbucket]

I am an user who is dommed to be locked out of content since I'm not lucky enough to win a raffle nor I have resources to catch dozens of golds and silvers. Paid perks can give me a fair advantage to finally get things that I'm excluded for years.

 

Do you have any other suggestion to solve my problem?

Yes. Learn to enjoy what you have. AS I said to you yesterday - it is sad to see someone so unhappy at what they don't have rather than happy at what they do. I am in the exact same position as you are, and I'm doing fine. Enjoy Chicken Smoothie.

 

This thread is going way off beam again - we were asked what we would be willing to pay for, not to decide how TJ should spend any money raised if we did start to pay.

 

One of the biggest selling point of this game is that it is genuinely free. Introducing microtransaction, regardless of intention and implementation, is going to taint this reputation at best and wreck it completely at worst.

 

This is the killer issue from where I'm standing. Skins, extra PM space, minigames that don't get an actual game advantage - fine. But otherwise - I'm with CNR4806.

By the way, all those references to more money make no sense. We are not talking about thousands or hundreds dollars here.

 

I'm a 70 year old pensioner. $10 makes a difference to me, I assure you - and there are MANY here with less money than I have.

 

By the way - is only one of you posting, Sullen Cat or are all three of you in here ? Do you all agree ?

Oh so you are based in the limited presence of a dozen of users in a forum.

This doesn't represent the DC userbase.

No thread in this forum ever does. Even TJ has disabled polls because they don't give an accurate picture of anything. There's actually no way to get the views of the whole player base.

 

AK said it all, really:

 

But the overwhelming majority of those who ARE posting are against paying for GAME advantages .And if you just want a reason to jump ahead of everyone because you have money then why don't you go play some other game that lets you jump ahead of the non paying members?

[DragonNighthowler]

If I had money to spare, I'd have been donating long since - but the only reason I'm online at all is that I have a computer from better days and can ride on my room-mate's wireless.

 

There are a lot of people in that position, on a global basis, already not having enough to really get by on, including those who are disabled; elderly; raising kids on dwindling paychecks while costs rise; loaded with student debt and working maybe several part-time minimum-wage jobs for rotten peanuts while unable to even frame their shiny new/tattered and dusty degrees... not to mention the kids playing here.

 

There's a HUGE market for an easy, enjoyable game which anyone can play - and get away from RL for a while - and DC, with so many advertisement views built into the game, might just as well have been planned to take advantage of the revenue possible with this system.

 

 

People have been losing interest in DC in great part because the biomes are plugged up with blockers (which could, for example, be bunged to the AP to become an asset instead, at low time) and often slow-to-unmoving apart from the shuffles, so that Cave hunting is boring;

 

because only the fastest can catch the most in-demand CB dragons which then effectively vanish so that people with slower refreshes cannot catch or even see them and also then are shut out of various beautiful lines and lineages;

 

with much of the 'invisible-to-most' dragon supply snatched up by the fastest in far higher numbers than would otherwise be taken by them, as trade fodder for 2nd gen Prizes initially barely produced by dragons owned by literally a few members lucky enough to win one, creating a long-running, damaging scarcity situation and a two-tier membership only recently improved, to any perceptible degree;

 

and with the RL wealthier able to afford better computers and faster internet, RL inequity already follows the bulk of the membership into even once-more egalitarian games, making most of the members have-nots even in their leisure fantasy fun-time in a virtual world.

 

Allowing those with more spare money to purchase hard-to-get/special dragons/separate servers for better connection speeds/extra egg-slots/reduced times for breeding, etc. with real money won't fix that - it will make it worse. DC goes from free-wheeling play to Monopoly with a relative few having advantages, to that relative few having as many further advantages as they care to buy with 'extra' real money - the same thing as is happening in our political systems, our countries and lives. This is not relaxing and fun for most of us.

 

Why not actually start to fix the Cave problems using Suggested solutions which do not shut out most members, such as having the untaken biome eggs 'rolling off' into the AP to come up as lower-time desirables, let word get out so that members come back to have actual fun hunting biomes with variety and sufficient of the most-desirable dragons appearing so that the average player again has a chance, with enough time and effort involved, of being able to actually enjoy the thrill of catching literally anything Dropping in the Cave?

 

The old ratio system hasn't worked for years, having long since been outgrown by the site, and even the patch of the biome-to-AP dump could, I suspect, make quite a difference over time.

 

This would be more in the nature of basic site maintenance, I should think, although admittedly speaking as One Who Knows Nothing About Coding Complexity.

 

But since site attendance and hunting are the real money-makers, does it really make sense to suggest that TJ cut back on these to allow a few to pay for advantages, while referring to other member as 'free-loaders' for bringing money in indirectly, by ad refreshes, rather than directly, when the site was apparently designed to operate that way?

 

TJ himself has said that this is not for extra revenue, but apparently to 'make the game more fun'; with this suggestion, it's only more fun for a few with spare cash, less than no fun for the already disadvantaged without enough money - to be outright segregated in some suggestions, as with pay-only biomes (serving what purpose if not having special dragons in them, outside of Releases, when having 3 people in a biome means even less movement apart from shuffles? Gold frames and velvet curtains on the no-peon side? lol) - and it also takes away from the game itself, so that money can buy exclusive privilege without the privileged putting in the time and effort that the regular player must while still without getting anywhere because there's not enough to go around with it piling up at the top and valued only BECAUSE there's not enough to go around, in part because of biome blockage preventing any real variety from appearing.

 

Experienced people have in the past volunteered to help code stuff or do whatever without apparently being taken up on it - this is TJ's baby, his creation, and I don't know (duh, obviously just guessing, lol) whether he'd even want to hire other people to work on his site - has he said he would, or wouldn't? If not, why assume that he would, if some people were to pay a little more for some exclusive advantages?

 

Most of us came here for the dragons - why ruin the game with MORE Wall St. wealth-based ideology where the dragons are only to be valued as regarding what they'll bring in trade, rather than what they are and are needed for, as themselves, by the majority of members?

 

 

TLDR: no, I don't support bringing in additional advantages for a few who can afford to spare cash to make the 3rd-class citizens into 4ths, lol. Been there, done that, don't need to see more of it here.

I agree with you on everything you said. I do not want paid perks, and definitely reject the idea of exclusive paid perks, such as exclusive dragons or biomes. The only reason why I would be in favor of having the possibility of being able to buy those ellusive dragons, be it from the store (we'd rather have that solution) or by using cash, is because of all the issues you've addressed.

 

The reason why this type of suggestions are appearing is because of those problems, and the fact that all the proposals to fix them have ended up in "nada". Hunting is boring. It used to be fun, at least during the top hour you could go out and see the cave moving. Things would fly past and either you caught them or not, but the cave moved. Right now it is stale and static, and the fact I'm one of those who has to compete against better connections is not helping.

 

I spent a few hours hunting yesterday, trying uselessly to catch the Xenos I still don't have and it was mostly blockers being substituted by more blockers nobody wants. I saw one ice go by, that was about the most interesting thing I saw. Maybe they are flying so fast that I'm not seeing them in between refreshes, which is a possibility. That still doesn't help me or the rest of us who have to compete against faster connections and computers. It's just natural that, when given the option, some of us would say, "hey, why not?".

 

Not being able to hunt rares doesn't ruin the experience for me as others have said. I truly believe DC is an awesome place full of very generous people who have helped me a bunch. One of my CB silvers and one of my CB xenos were gifts. I have gotten third or fourth gens from spriter alts from awesome people. This is truly a great game.

 

But it has this few small things. The boring hunting. The, as you called it, Wall Street wealth based ideology in the trading system which practically means certain dragons have lost their status as dragons to become coins. The completely huge divergence between rare and common ratios. The blockers.

 

We should address all those problems before we try something more radical, but, at least from my perspective, I see great suggestions pop up and then get buried for years. Some bumped suggestions are from 2011-2012. That's over three years.

[diaveborn]

Apologies if I'm repeating something, as I've not read the entire thread.

 

Most of the non-gameplay-impacting purchasable changes I'm familiar with come from MMO-type games, where you for example will get a new costume for your character that has no effect on your stats or anything.

 

Would some artists be willing to create special "costumes" for some of the dragons, akin to the halloween/christmas sprites (so you can tell it's the same dragon) but not related to a holiday, that people would be able to see on their own dragons but would not be passed on through breeding? Details about if paying people should see the costume on other people's dragons (I would assume not) and if other people would see it on the paying person's dragons (I think so?) would need to be worked out but if there is some interest in this it might be a neat way of paying for something nifty that wouldn't actually be a new dragon.

 

The incentive for artists to do this might be something like a CB of their own "costumed" dragon (and also if TJ does disclose where the money would go to, artists could decide if they wanted to support that).

Edited August 3, 2015 by diaveborn

[Syphoneira]

I agree with you on everything you said. I do not want paid perks, and definitely reject the idea of exclusive paid perks, such as exclusive dragons or biomes. The only reason why I would be in favor of having the possibility of being able to buy those ellusive dragons, be it from the store (we'd rather have that solution) or by using cash, is because of all the issues you've addressed.

 

The reason why this type of suggestions are appearing is because of those problems, and the fact that all the proposals to fix them have ended up in "nada". Hunting is boring. It used to be fun, at least during the top hour you could go out and see the cave moving. Things would fly past and either you caught them or not, but the cave moved. Right now it is stale and static, and the fact I'm one of those who has to compete against better connections is not helping.

 

I spent a few hours hunting yesterday, trying uselessly to catch the Xenos I still don't have and it was mostly blockers being substituted by more blockers nobody wants. I saw one ice go by, that was about the most interesting thing I saw. Maybe they are flying so fast that I'm not seeing them in between refreshes, which is a possibility. That still doesn't help me or the rest of us who have to compete against faster connections and computers. It's just natural that, when given the option, some of us would say, "hey, why not?".

 

Not being able to hunt rares doesn't ruin the experience for me as others have said. I truly believe DC is an awesome place full of very generous people who have helped me a bunch. One of my CB silvers and one of my CB xenos were gifts. I have gotten third or fourth gens from spriter alts from awesome people. This is truly a great game.

 

But it has this few small things. The boring hunting. The, as you called it, Wall Street wealth based ideology in the trading system which practically means certain dragons have lost their status as dragons to become coins. The completely huge divergence between rare and common ratios. The blockers.

 

We should address all those problems before we try something more radical, but, at least from my perspective, I see great suggestions pop up and then get buried for years. Some bumped suggestions are from 2011-2012. That's over three years.

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly - even if you at least SEE different dragons you want in the Cave, it gives you a purpose in continuing because you've seen they're really there, and if your refresh is a little faster the next time, you might get one.

 

If you never even see them, why keep trying? What is the answer to: 'when you keep doing the same things over and over again, expecting a different result?"

 

People (and lab animals, lol,) need incentives to continue doing things - and in a game played for fun, they need them frequently, otherwise, why keep boring yourself silly for no positive results?

 

This could be an INCREDIBLE game, with variety in the Cave and the biomes moving and the average player able to get ahead with time and effort put in.

 

Is that really something shocking to hope for in a family site game?

 

 

Allowing a focus on keeping trade values high to the detriment of the rest of the members predictably hasn't enhanced the game experience for more than a relative few - expanding that focus so that real money most people can't spare buys that relative few even greater advantage will merely increase the disengagement occurring among those already feeling that their concerns are dismissed too readily.

 

Yet these concerns are based solidly in issues such as unnecessary boredom inflicted by ratios not being addressed to be more player-responsive, as though the players exist for the ratios and game, rather than the game being dependent on attracting and retaining players.

 

And the fact is that (just as in the RL economy) their deprivation (regarding catching dragons they need and never even see in the Cave) feeds the trade prices worsening their deprivation and limiting other facets, such as breeding/continuing Prize lines.

 

Created scarcity consists of ensuring that most people have too little or none of something so that a few may profit - but in most cases, the dragons have lost virtually all trade value once they've grown up on a scroll, so there's really no trade profit *accumulation* anywhere on quantities of any dragon Dropping in the Cave. Once adult, their value resides in what the owner places on it, as a sprite/breeder/collection size increase...

 

And most of the apparent 'rares' are actually unCommons, not intended to be rare.

 

So how does it benefit the Cave or the membership to have most people unable to catch the most desirable dragons in order to suit set ratios which fail to take circumstances into account and leave most players with few or no CBs of various sprites necessary to scroll goals and to breeding, which has become a major aspect of the game among a large group of players, and which benefits the site, as the breeders have more to do and to keep them onsite longer and more frequently than simply hunting and posting dragons for trade or on fansites.

 

The site used to be about people actually catching and breeding dragons they wanted, at least that would be the ideal for a lot of us - now it seems to be more about limited groups capturing markets, with the rest to be dependent upon charity - now with real money involved... just like the the RL we come here to get away from...

 

 

[BlitzDrake]

If hunting is an issue, we could suggest having a second row of eggs, like the marrow dragon incident.

Since there's over 40 types of dragons in some biomes, maybe we need more variety to actually be seen in the cave instead of the same three eggs. At least with six eggs, there's a chance to see new ones. DC has grown since 2009 when I started, and more people are here..as are dragons so it seems like a good idea to invest in a larger cluster of eggs to see.

 

 

[CNR4806]

Apologies if I'm repeating something, as I've not read the entire thread.

 

Most of the non-gameplay-impacting purchasable changes I'm familiar with come from MMO-type games, where you for example will get a new costume for your character that has no effect on your stats or anything.

 

Would some artists be willing to create special "costumes" for some of the dragons, akin to the halloween/christmas sprites (so you can tell it's the same dragon) but not related to a holiday, that people would be able to see on their own dragons but would not be passed on through breeding?  Details about if paying people should see the costume on other people's dragons (I would assume not) and if other people would see it on the paying person's dragons (I think so?) would need to be worked out but if there is some interest in this it might be a neat way of paying for something nifty that wouldn't actually be a new dragon.

 

The incentive for artists to do this might be something like a CB of their own "costumed" dragon (and also if TJ does disclose where the money would go to, artists could decide if they wanted to support that).

This would basically make it paying for an alt <insert breed> that is functionally similar to an alt sweetling, especially the part that I put on bold.

 

This site is about collecting sprites, and from this perspective your suggestion is not all that different from a paywall breed.

Edited August 3, 2015 by CNR4806

[Syphoneira]

If hunting is an issue, we could suggest having a second row of eggs, like the marrow dragon incident.

Since there's over 40 types of dragons in some biomes, maybe we need more variety to actually be seen in the cave instead of the same three eggs. At least with six eggs, there's a chance to see new ones. DC has grown since 2009 when I started, and more people are here..as are dragons so it seems like a good idea to invest in a larger cluster of eggs to see.

 

 

 

I'd actually rather see the ratios sorted out in accordance with user demand rather than the long-standing reverse situation, which evidently isn't going to happen, lol - but at least untaken eggs bumped to the AP to come up low-time and be taken and raised into the ratios so that we'd gradually get more movement and, over time, more variety.

 

The Marrow incident worked because it was all one breed everyone desperately wanted, all at once; altering the biome set-up for regular Drops in that manner seems more disruptive (as well as something creating further disadvantage for slower/disabled people) than fixing/filling the ratios - finally dealing with the actual problem - so that we're not then looking at 6 unmoving blockers rather than 3, but having more variety among those 3 incoming eggs so that there may actually be wanted dragons that everyone present doesn't already have enough of showing up on a regular basis in the biomes, so that incoming eggs more likely get taken by people who can actually use them and so that other eggs can show up in their place, as in the old days, when the Cave moved. Double the blockers doesn't really sound like double the fun to me, lol.

 

As you say, we have over 40 dragons Dropping in each biome, and we should be seeing all of them, not just the same few ones endlessly regenerated every hourly because nobody wants or will take any more of them at full time.

 

We need a larger variety and supply of dragons, each species appearing more closely in accordance with what the environment - the members - can willingly support, so that hunting is fun, people can eventually catch, or at least see, whatever they want, and we have actual hunting through passing eggs, not just seemingly endless refreshing over the same or similar regenerated ones until we wake up with our noses wedged in our keyboards.

 

THAT will get people back and new people joining - actual fun.

 

Keeping hunting boring and fruitless for most but allowing those who can pay (edit: real money) to purchase dragons outright, among other advantages, will not.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Syphoneira

[olympe]

So no exclusive dragons, no way to drastically increase speed of hatching, no ability to buy rares at a faster rate than free players (assuming the implementation of a store). An extra biome seems...iffy and if done would have to be done VERY carefully.

That "extra" biome could be an old-fashioned cave biome, where everything drops. Just like the old cave, you know?

 

Keeping this open for a small monthly fee (1$?) for players might actually be a good middle ground. You'd not get anything super special, could probably still trade for the true Caveborns rather easily (or just rent the cave for one month and catch them yourself) and still have the experience of the old cave, hopefully with more movement than the regular biomes.

[Syphoneira]

That "extra" biome could be an old-fashioned cave biome, where everything drops. Just like the old cave, you know?

 

Keeping this open for a small monthly fee (1$?) for players might actually be a good middle ground. You'd not get anything super special, could probably still trade for the true Caveborns rather easily (or just rent the cave for one month and catch them yourself) and still have the experience of the old cave, hopefully with more movement than the regular biomes.

 

 

If everything dropped there like the old Cave, wouldn't that include the same rate of Blockers from every biome all at once?

 

 

[danicast]

~Removed~ Edited August 3, 2015 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Shokomon]

Since you asked:

 

I'll be using my example of Player $ and Player A, where Player $ and Player A both have the same trophy status, similar clicking speeds, and similar internet speeds, who are both in the Cave on the same day, at the same time. The only difference between the two is that Player $ has extra cash to spend, while Player A doesn't.

 

Paid things I could be really ok with:

*Gender change on adult dragons. Almost everyone has a dragon they wish had been a different gender. Exclude holidays and single/no gender breeds.

-I'm against this. I don't like it because Gendering is a part of the game's Luck-of-the-Draw factor. And while there is an in-game version of this (Pinks), it only affects eggs, and if you miss that opportunity (or don't collect Pinks), you are penalized to wait, and catch another egg or trade if the dragon doesn't gender right. This would add money as a factor.

- Assume Player A and Player $ make a mistake, and they let an un-Influenced egg grow up into an Adult, while they were busy with real life. It's the wrong gender.

- Player $ wouldn't have to catch eggs and wait for them to hatch, and gender. S/he could just change the Adult's gender right away by handing out cash. Player A would have to go through alternate loops like catching & influencing a new egg or trading the hatchling, which would take more time. There is a time-disadvantage to Player A.

- Honestly, there should be a hatchling gender switch BSA for ungendered hatchlings, but that's neither here nor there.

 

*Scroll name changing: However, there should be a free option that can be used once ever. Any more frequently than that, however should be paid feature. The risk here is not being able to go back to an old name, in the event someone has already taken it.

- I've said before that I like the idea of this kind of perk.

- Player $ and Player A don't like their scroll name anymore. Player $ can afford to change it sooner than Player A. Both Player $ and A can still play the game with the same risks and benefits, and the name change of Player $ doesn't affect Player A other than mild confusion when Player A sees Player $'s scroll.

 

*Fertility scrolls: For multi clutch, or to encourage one breed being bred over another. Should be multiple options, to allow for different play styles.

- Nope against this. While Trading, technically, is an extra-curricular activity on DC, many people involve it in their playstyles. This would make it easier to breed certain breeds or can skew breed ratio for other breeders, particularly one's trying to breed rares. The only way this wouldn't work would be if they had the same worth as Purple's Fertility. Then they wouldn't be worth buying. Unless you didn't have Purples or didn't collect them, which makes it even more unfair if you are in the aforementioned situation and didn't have money to obtain Fertility scrolls.

- Player $ and Player A are both trying to breed say Blacks for ALT-ing and Lineages. Player $ buys Fertility scroll, and has an easier time breeding Blacks. Player A cannot afford to buy a Fertility scroll and has a much harder time, resorting in trading and hunting to get Blacks. Another time-disadvantage. If enough Player $'s buy fertility scrolls, it becomes harder for Player A (and anyone else with no money to spare) to breed Blacks as others are being bred by Player $'s with Fertility scroll.

- If anything, this should be a free option, or the Fertility BSA should be allowed on other dragons (which is being contested along with other BSA's in the BSA section of Suggestions.)

 

*Alternate biomes: However, no breeds that may only be caught in those biomes. Having a grasslands specific biome, for example could pull breeds from multiple biomes that are more suited to grasslands into one location. Metals probably shouldnt drop there, to keep things fair (as they seem to be the only official rares, they should only drop where everyone has access...).

- Already said why I'm against this (on Page 18). Basically, Player $ have an extra biome to hunt with different ratios and less competition, while Player A doesn't. (This is a problem of unequal opportunity and unequal access.)

 

*Lures: Items that based on the encyclopedia and breed info, could be more prone to attracting those types of breeds while you hunt. This idea however would rely on having single player biomes, which were mentioned in another suggestion somewhere. They could make it so that x breeds that are attracted to that type of food would be more likely to show up, similar to the v-day cave building event. They would be far more likely to attract blockers, than anything else.

- Nope. This makes it easier to catch certain breeds, thereby screwing the ratios for anyone who can't afford it. Even with the possibility of attracting "blockers," they would still have to give some benefit of bringing in valued breeds or they wouldn't be worth buying. Also, "blockers" change every once and awhile, so what lures would attract would change too.

- Player $ and A are both hunting for Xenos in the Hypothetical Cave. Player $ buys some Lures. Player A cannot afford a Lure. Player $ uses the Lures, and has an easier time getting a Xeno. Player A doesn't even see one in the span of time Player A gets one. Player A gets one much later due to high demand. There is an time-disadvantage and opportunity-disadvantage to Player A.

- Maybe if Lures could be obtained for free, I'd be more willing, but as it stands, nope.

 

*Longer descriptions: Buy a journal, to keep track of a specific dragons exploits. However, descriptions in general need an overhaul in how they get handled, before this one is even feasible. This could put a small clickable image below the on site description, where more information could be stored. Would have to be report-able, but otherwise, I can see people getting a kick out of it.

- I'm okay with this one. Descriptions are a lot like names and don't affect game play. I would like an in-game way of obtaining the journal though. For all those who want to describe their dragons in more detail, but lack funds.

- Player $ and Player A both enjoy describing their dragons. Player $ buys a journal to add more detail about his/her dragons. Players A cannot, but can still describe dragons, and play other parts of the game with no difference in gameplay. Player $'s ability to describe his/her dragons more does not change Player A's ability to catch, raise, breed, or describe (or trade for those who do) nor does it confer a time difference between the two Players.

 

*Time scrolls: Scrolls that can give or take a day from hatchlings, that were not targeted by incubate. Sometimes, you just really want to target a hatchling... (the limit of incubate is because I recall it being made clear at one point that things could not have more than one day removed from them, however, without a quote, its not  big deal to me.. I'm avoiding serious advantages..).

- Nope. I'm against this. There is no in-game way of doing this outside of Pinks' BSA. (There really should be a hatchling Incubate BSA first, before I'd even consider this.) Those without money would have n way of doing anything similar, other than waiting for hatchlings to gender on their own or influencing them as eggs.

- Basically, this has the same issues as the Adult Influencing.

 

Bulk teleport scrolls. For those times you really need to move more than 4 things at once.

- Nope. Again. As much as I would like this, there is no in-game opportunity to do this, other than collecting more Magi dragons. And even if there was, this would give players with money the advantage of being able to clear their scrolls more quickly. It would, also, give people with money more opportunities to trade (and gift), while those without money will not have such opportunity. It'd be better if (as I mentioned with Fertility Scrolls) BSA could be shared with multiple dragons.

- Player A & Player $ both were lucky last year, and got many shiny rares. They have bred said rares, and now they wish to trade them (or gift) their shiny and rare-fail eggs. However, both have used up all their Magi Dragon Teleports in recent endeavors. Player $ buys some Teleport scrolls. Player A cannot afford to buy Teleport Scrolls.

- Player $ can now trade and gift his/her shiny eggs sooner than Player A, thus Player has can catch/breed eggs sooner, get more offers sooner, and/or free him/herself up for a release sooner. Player A must wait for his/her Teleports to reactivate, leaving Player A with the options of abandoning the eggs and losing any use of them for trading (or gifting) OR waiting out and risking the eggs growing up (and thus losing all trade, gift, or abandoning value).

- Player A end up with a time-disadvantage and opportunity-disadvantage compared to Player $.

[tjekan]

I don't inherently object, but I don't really understand the point. If TJ has stated that DC is profitable enough and raising more money via DC is not an issue, then why would he WANT to implement paid perks? Is there any other benefit to doing this BESIDES raising more money?

 

If the money's not an issue, then why go through the bother of implementing a new feature and only release it to the subset of players who pay for it? Just release the feature to the whole community if money's not an issue.

[Fuzzbucket]

I suppose that now nobody have doubts why I am annoyed with users who thinks they have the right to say nasty things to others.

 

Yeah. This game will never be a great game.

Why is it nasty to suggest that someone might be happier with a change of outlook ? How is that NASTY ? I am in the same boat as you are - and I have learned to be cheerful with what I have and carry on living in hope of a CB gold coming from SOMEWHERE to complete my set. It is far less stressful and infinitely less painful.

 

@ tjekan - TJ said - he is just interested to see what people WOULD pay for, not that he plans to start up a payment system.

Edited August 3, 2015 by fuzzbucket

[_Z_]

~ We are receiving a lot of reports on this topic. Remember to attack the topic not each other. Everyones opinion is allowed, you do not have to agree but you can disagree in a non offensive way.~

[Twyro]

Personally I think that the game is as good as it is and that there is no need for introducing perks for paying users to the site. First of all, this is a game. A game of dragons made in pixels that people shouldn't make any fuss about, especially to pay for them. And we are playing it to have fun, not to compete. If you want to get a dragon of a specific gender, just influence it to increase its chances, why pay to change the gender of an already existing dragon? If the influence fails, get another one. You will come across its substitute eventually. Not at once and maybe not so easily, but you will, the same way you earned the first one. The reason this game and its concept are loved by the users so much is that it's all the matter of good will, some persistence and a little bit of luck and that we all have equal chances. Why should you pay to get an almandine or CB gold if you can catch it on your own someday? Or trade for one? Or ask a kind person who is a bit luckier at coming across them to do you a favor and try to make up for it by giving them something in return? All that - free of charge.

If another dragon breed is released for paying users only (such as, one caveborn egg on this breed costs $2.99) and other users see it on that person's scroll, someone jealous would definitely try viewbombing it to death (let me remind you, even in this game as it is we have that), OR the paying users would use the 2nd gen offspring of that pay-only breed to ask for nearly impossible requests for trades (such as multiple CB metallics or neglected dragons). There goes something else.

What I mentioned are probably some ideas on what those perks to pay for would be, and in my personal opinion they have more downsides than positive things. This game makes me happy, and this imaginary world makes me happy, as well as everybody in it, and I'd love it to stay that way. A place where I can raise my dragons with you all and be happy for it. Why throw in money when money ruined so many more serious things in people's lives?

[Fuzzbucket]

Personally I think that the game is as good as it is and that there is no need for introducing perks for paying users to the site. First of all, this is a game. A game of dragons made in pixels that people shouldn't make any fuss about, especially to pay for them. And we are playing it to have fun, not to compete. If you want to get a dragon of a specific gender, just influence it to increase its chances, why pay to change the gender of an already existing dragon? If the influence fails, get another one. You will come across its substitute eventually. Not at once and maybe not so easily, but you will, the same way you earned the first one. The reason this game and its concept are loved by the users so much is that it's all the matter of good will, some persistence and a little bit of luck and that we all have equal chances. Why should you pay to get an almandine or CB gold if you can catch it on your own someday? Or trade for one? Or ask a kind person who is a bit luckier at coming across them to do you a favor and try to make up for it by giving them something in return? All that - free of charge.

If another dragon breed is released for paying users only (such as, one caveborn egg on this breed costs $2.99) and other users see it on that person's scroll, someone jealous would definitely try viewbombing it to death (let me remind you, even in this game as it is we have that), OR the paying users would use the 2nd gen offspring of that pay-only breed to ask for nearly impossible requests for trades (such as multiple CB metallics or neglected dragons). There goes something else.

What I mentioned are probably some ideas on what those perks to pay for would be, and in my personal opinion they have more downsides than positive things. This game makes me happy, and this imaginary world makes me happy, as well as everybody in it, and I'd love it to stay that way. A place where I can raise my dragons with you all and be happy for it. Why throw in money when money ruined so many more serious things in people's lives?

This. Couldn't agree more - this game makes me happy too.