ANSWERED:Paid Perks

[Tehya Faye]

It's not just an ability to spend that factors into things. It's also a willingness to spend. I'm certainly able to spend money on DC, but I'd never be willing to do so, regardless of what was available. I'd rather use that extra money to get stuff in a site I've been on daily since 2012 rather than risk putting it into a site I've left multiple times already. So yeah, there would be cases like the one Shokomon mentioned.

[Shokomon]

But the paid perks are not mandatory, they are optional. They are simply a new merchandise for those who can afford to buy. Maybe someone who can not afford high speed connections or high end computers can afford to buy some dragons and other things from the site that will make them happy.

Nobody is forced to pay.

I'm not against optional merchandise. I'm against optional things that give people who can afford the options better chances, and opportunities than people who cannot afford to buy those options.

 

I already posted examples earlier in the thread (page 18) of the kind of things I support and don't support.

[SullenCat]

I'm not against optional merchandise. I'm against optional things that give people who can afford the options better chances, and opportunities than people who cannot afford to buy those options.

 

I already posted examples earlier in the thread (page 18) of the kind of things I support and don't support.

Yes. But would you pay for the perks that you support?

 

@Teha Faye, I had understood the same, tht you are not willing to pay for perks in DC.

[Tehya Faye]

Correct, I wouldn't pay for stuff on DC. Now if I'd been a dedicated user from the very beginning til now I would certainly be willing to put some money into the site. Anything that can keep me hooked on a daily basis for over a year is worth a few bucks.

 

However, I'm very conscious of the free players on the site I do support financially. It allows multiple accounts, so I have one dedicated to playing without any purchases just to compare the experiences. So far they've been very good about making sure free players get to enjoy the game to its fullest, which is great! As long as they keep that going I'll be happy to support them. If not, however, I'll be seriously tempted to leave.

 

If Dragon Cave can strike that balance where free players do not feel inhibited by their refusal/inability to pay then I'm fully supportive of pay perks. There does need to be a balance, though. GaiaOnline had a good balance, but they lost it (and thus a paying customer).

Edited August 3, 2015 by Tehya Faye

[Shokomon]

Yes. But would you pay for the perks that you support?

 

@Teha Faye, I had understood the same, tht you are not willing to pay for perks in DC.

Depends on my money situation. At the moment, not really. But, I support perks that do not affect game play. If I don't buy those kinds of perks, I don't suffer a disadvantage in the game (in terms of time spent, equal opportunity, and equal access). Anyone who does buy those perks don't get an advantage over me. And, when my monetary situation improves, I can consider buying the perk, and I won't disadvantage anyone else by doing so.

[Prince_Xanthius]

As someone has previously stated (sorry on my phone so won't go find out who), there seems to be a gulf between what the majority of players support being available for pay, and what people actually say they are willing to pay for.

 

I would prefer non-game play perks because generally I cannot afford to pay for online games and I have too much experience with missing out because of that. HOWEVER, I am at a point now that I CAN afford it, and I WOULD pay for some of the suggested game-play perks if they were implemented, despite the fact I think some of them would be a bad move for the community as a whole. (I would also pay for some of the non-game play perks suggested, but tbh most of them aren't as much of an incentive).

 

On a different note, how do people feel about paying for an extra breeding spot, like we used to have, so not one that could be used for CB?

[Tehya Faye]

I'd be fine with people paying for an extra breeding slot. It might encourage the extra production of bred commons from people trying to breed another shiny.

[CNR4806]

My opinion remains the same. Paid gameplay perks or items ie. microtransaction have not and will not be a good thing in any game, the difference only lies in the level of harm done.

 

Unless you're trying to profit from a game (which is fair, but stated by TJ to be not the case), there is no justification at all for microtransaction to be implemented.

 

 

All paid perk suggestions in this thread, up to and including flat-out buying dragons, can be implemented without asking players to shell out their real life money.

Edited August 3, 2015 by CNR4806

[Thuban]

I listed some options a few pages back, that I felt were useful, that wouldnt give paid users any huge advantage over free ones. Did any of those look like something you guys would be ok with?

 

https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showt...dpost&p=8887638

[BlindWolf]

I am an user who is dommed to be locked out of content since I'm not lucky enough to win a raffle nor I have resources to catch dozens of golds and silvers. Paid perks can give me a fair advantage to finally get things that I'm excluded for years.

 

Do you have any other suggestion to solve my problem?

Nobody is keeping a dragon species from you. You just haven't had the luck to get a CB Shimmer or the time to catch DB metals. However, just like everyone else, you can get those dragons through the AP on the site. Dragon species behind a paywall is completely different.

[HeatherMarie]

I'm having a bit of a problem understanding how changes would somehow damage anybody. Worst case scenario, if someone does not want to take advantage of new currency or other changes, things would just stay as they are now for them.

People are talking about exclusive dragons that can only be found in a Paid Biome. That "damages" every single person who *can't* pay by saying "oops, you can't pay, too bad! You can never have these wonderful dragons!". How *isn't* that damaging?

 

Things would just "stay as they are".... Except the GAME itself would change, and leave us behind. More eggslots that we *can't* get, more dragons that we *can't* get, shorter cooldowns on BSAs that we *can't* get.... The game would change in a BIG way and we would be left behind. How is that NOT damaging?

[Jazeki]

I think the other people, myself included, who mentioned the exclusive biome were suggesting something more along the lines of another biome for hunting dragons--not that it had exclusive dragons in it.

 

If I was going to buy just dragons, I'd want them separate from the biome anyway because there would be no need for hunting.

[CNR4806]

I listed some options a few pages back, that I felt were useful, that wouldnt give paid users any huge advantage over free ones. Did any of those look like something you guys would be ok with?

 

https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showt...dpost&p=8887638

I find it funny that it is suggested under the current "PAY FOR THIS PAY FOR THAT" bandwagon rather than improving on existing functions, because most of them are, while the rest are alternative access to existing functions, with Alt. Biome being a serious game-breaker and name changing being non-gameplay related.

 

If "enhanced, better versions of existing functions like they probably should have been in the first place" is all the paid perks have to offer, there is going to be a really big problem with the ongoing development and enhancement of the site experience.

Edited August 3, 2015 by CNR4806

[Tawanda001]

Editing to clarify... Maybe I wouldn't get some of the perks directly but I'm persuaded that TJ would  use part of the additional revenue for improvements benefiting everybody.

That's one view of what he said, but that is definitely not how I look at the points he brought up

Generally in pay to play the majority (perhaps the only) really worthwhile improvements or advantages go only to the people who have paid for them.

 

Again, if it were just about improving the site as a whole there are other ways to raise money for that that would seem to be more effective, and appeal to a broader spectrum of the player base.

Give one example of more effective way to raise money that are not with pay perks. Just one.

I was not referring to all paid perks, only pay for play perks, those that directly affect game play whereby a player is paying to gain an advantage over non paying players. I've been on other sites that generate sufficient revenue with fund drives, custom titles and other such non-play perks.

 

Given the nature of the way this site is operated I myself tend to believe that if TJ came and made a personal appeal for a one time donation in order to make a major improvement to the site, or to keep it going, he would get a generous response from many players, even those that cannot ordinarily make any kind of regular contribution.

 

I'm not sure how I would feel about an extra paid for breeding spot...maybe?

Multiclutching? Would it work like it does now with the breeder only able to keep a single egg? (Can I pay to have TJs thuweds multiclutch )

Bulk teleport, sure, just a convenience thing like multiple fogging, so it's good

 

 

[AnanoKimi]

Really I don't feel there should be a need to pay for anything.

 

You want the ability to change your username? Sure why not with a 30-90 day cool down before you can do it again, for free.

You want more egg slots? Sure why not reward users for every other year of being a DC member with an egg slot and complimentary hatchi slots for free.

You want the ability to get dragons you cant catch on a normal day? Sure why not push for the store suggestion to be implemented which allows users to earn game points through normal every day actions for free.

You want an extra biome to work with? Maybe allow it for members 3+ years to have access to a biome specifically for older members or one allowed to gold trophies for free

 

Why do game features that could very well be completely free and which to some degree have been for so long be made a pay to play feature? Again if the argument for creating pay to play is a form of repayment to TJ, why not donate? Why does TJ have to give you something in exchange for your money when he already has created a site completely free to use? Why do you need to be given a perk to make you give money to something that you enjoy and something you already spend time on? Why not just donate $5 every so often to show your friggin gratitude towards the guy if that's really your qualm? Obviously if you don't wanna donate thats your issue, but don't come and shove pay to play into a game that has been free for so long just give you a "reason to put in money" towards the site. if enjoyment, ease of use, and the ability to play a cool pixel dragon game ain't enough for you then oh well.

 

And if you just want a reason to jump ahead of everyone because you have money then why don't you go play some other game that lets you jump ahead of the non paying members?

 

[Edited for grammar and spelling corrections.]

Edited August 3, 2015 by AnanoKimi

[DarkEternity]

Probably because only the most generous individuals/people with disposable income would donate. Also, I think that if some people were choosing to donate and wanted to make a difference to a person's life, they might decide to pick an actual charity or a research foundation and not a dragon website.

 

Right now as a free website Dragcave probably receives less coding and feature attention then it would as a paid website. A hobby is just something you do for fun so you only allocate some of your spare time to it. If it helps with paying the bills then maybe you can spend a little more time on it and justify the attention that you're giving it.

 

And really, maybe the way that Dragcave is run is a little more expensive than TJ likes it to be. Sure he's said that he has a job, but you could have a job and still have a dragcave sized hole in your pocket from where the merch and the ads aren't quite covering the cost.

 

Also, just because it's a hobby it doesn't mean that you're always going to keep it. I sometimes write and do art as a hobby, but I have far too many unfinished works. On fanfiction.net you can see a lot of unpaid hobbyists get initially excited about their new project but as real life becomes more burdensome they drop it. I think that this is a particularly relevant issue if the project you are undertaking NOT ONLY requires sustained interest but monetary funds. For servers, electricity etc.

 

Edited August 3, 2015 by DarkEternity

[CNR4806]

Probably because only the most generous individuals/people with disposable income would donate. Also, I think that if some people were choosing to donate and wanted to make a difference to a person's life, they might decide to pick an actual charity or a research foundation and not a dragon website.

 

Right now as a free website Dragcave probably receives less coding and feature attention then it would as a paid website. A hobby is just something you do for fun so you only allocate some of your spare time to it. If it helps with paying the bills then maybe you can spend a little more time on it and justify the attention that you're giving it.

 

And really, maybe the way that Dragcave is run is a little more expensive than TJ likes it to be. Sure he's said that he has a job, but you could have a job and still have a dragcave sized hole in your pocket from where the merch and the ads aren't quite covering the cost.

 

Also, just because it's a hobby it doesn't mean that you're always going to keep it. I sometimes write and do art as a hobby, but I have far too many unfinished works. On fanfiction.net you can see a lot of unpaid hobbyists get initially excited about their new project but as real life becomes more burdensome they drop it. I think that this is a particularly relevant issue if the project you are undertaking NOT ONLY requires sustained interest but monetary funds. For servers, electricity etc.

I love how people keep coming up with alternatives as to why the site somehow must make money to survive despite TJ himself saying raising money was not his motivation for bringing up the discussion, and despite nobody but TJ knows the financial balance of the site. So many speculations being thrown around and so few facts being presented.

 

And in any case, I for one would rather see DC die naturally when the interest of TJ dies out, instead of pointlessly padding its life as a commercial machine.

Edited August 3, 2015 by CNR4806

[AnanoKimi]

That being said, $5 bucks for someone that can afford it wont break their bank. If they really like the site, feel TJ should get some monetary compensation for his work on this hobby and give him incentive to maybe work on it more, then donating $2 or more wont kill anyone and maybe perk his interest. Why do we need to force a generally pleasing free to play leisure game to become one of those if you don't have money to buy the cool adoptables, the awesome items, or the game affecting account perks via one time use items or monthly/yearly account subscriptions you basically won't get anywhere.

 

Why? really? To please a few people with full pockets who want to feel like they can get ahead of the game? To try and give people incentive to give to something that if they truly enjoy the could be giving to on a small amount yet semi regular basis? To "repay someone for their efforts" on a personal hobby? That last one I honestly feel is a bull excuse. If that was the real reason then they would donate some as often as they could manage.

 

There is absolutely no real need nor is there a userwide benefit to adding in paid perks. The only one to benefit from these things are those with money. and if they have $5 to spend on a pixel game to be able to change their names from buttmuncher49 to gravid then they can afford to simply donate $5 to the site for no real reason other than its enjoyable. Also:

 

they might decide to pick an actual charity or a research foundation and not a dragon website.

 

If that were really the case then why opt to spend money for fake perks on a set of pixels when they can donate to an actual charity? breast cancer, ALS, Autism research, etc, why pick to spend $5 on changing your username when those same 5 bucks could have gone to any of those things? Why is suddenly spending $5 on a username change or $.50 on a black tea dragon egg more important than donating to one of those places?

 

The reason is that logic is also bull. If someone really felt the need to donate for a reason, then the enjoyment or the purpose of that thing should be reason enough. Its why I also believe things like donations shouldn't be a tax break. A donation is a gift of money or something useful to a person or organization out of the kindness of that person's heart. Not for some reward, perk, or exemption. Which is why I feel that if you really enjoy this game, feel you need a reason to give money to maybe get more stuff moving, donate. Donate. Simple. Donate $5 every month, 2 months, 6 months, whenever you want/can. Don't push for something that is and has been free to suddenly charge for being used.

[HeatherMarie]

Probably because only the most generous individuals/people with disposable income would donate. Also, I think that if some people were choosing to donate and wanted to make a difference to a person's life, they might decide to pick an actual charity or a research foundation and not a dragon website.

 

Right now as a free website Dragcave probably receives less coding and feature attention then it would as a paid website. A hobby is just something you do for fun so you only allocate some of your spare time to it. If it helps with paying the bills then maybe you can spend a little more time on it and justify the attention that you're giving it.

 

And really, maybe the way that Dragcave is run is a little more expensive than TJ likes it to be. Sure he's said that he has a job, but you could have a job and still have a dragcave sized hole in your pocket from where the merch and the ads aren't quite covering the cost.

 

Also, just because it's a hobby it doesn't mean that you're always going to keep it. I sometimes write and do art as a hobby, but I have far too many unfinished works. On fanfiction.net you can see a lot of unpaid hobbyists get initially excited about their new project but as real life becomes more burdensome they drop it. I think that this is a particularly relevant issue if the project you are undertaking NOT ONLY requires sustained interest but monetary funds. For servers, electricity etc.

This is all just speculation, though. TJ has said in the past that the ads cover the site. He has said, in this thread,

 

Actually raising more money is in no way part of the motivation; I have a full-time job that isn't DC, so finding ways to make DC more profitable isn't in any way necessary.

 

There is NO reason to assume that DC gets less attention just because it's free. There is no reason to assume that TJ would *want* to spend more time on it just because some people pay. There is certainly no reason to believe that DC is more expensive then TJ would like. Absolutely *nothing* TJ has said hints at that.

 

AnanoKimi:

  Really I don't feel there should be a need to pay for anything.

 

You want the ability to change your username? Sure why not with a 30-90 day cool down before you can do it again, for free.

You want more egg slots? Sure why not reward users for every other year of being a DC member with an egg slot and complimentary hatchi slots for free.

You want the ability to get dragons you cant catch on a normal day? Sure why not push for the store suggestion to be implemented which allows users to earn game points through normal every day actions for free.

You want an extra biome to work with? Maybe allow it for members 3+ years to have access to a biome specifically for older members or one allowed to gold trophies for free

 

Why do game features that could very well be completely free and which to some degree have been for so long be made a pay to play feature? Again if the argument for creating pay to play is a form of repayment to TJ, why not donate? Why does TJ have to give you something in exchange for your money when he already has created a site completely free to use? Why do you need to be given a perk to make you give money to something that you enjoy and something you already spend time on? Why not just donate $5 every so often to show your friggin gratitude towards the guy if that's really your qualm? Obviously if you don't wanna donate thats your issue, but don't come and shove pay to play into a game that has been free for so long just give you a "reason to put in money" towards the site. if enjoyment, ease of use, and the ability to play a cool pixel dragon game ain't enough for you then oh well.

 

And if you just want a reason to jump ahead of everyone because you have money then why don't you go play some other game that lets you jump ahead of the non paying members?

 

THIS. Looooove this post!

[Diamondinmyeye]

It wouldn't bother me to add some bonus features for pay. It's clear that affected game play is not going to be an issue.

 

I would be okay with a pay feature for breed only egg slots. You get your standard number for CBs, then you can pay to add more for breeding. I would imagine there would have to be a cap on the number, probably only one or two. That would be incentive, but not really harm the free player experience.

 

Changing the name of your account should only be pay only after the first change, since we're not supposed to ever get a second account.

 

I wouldn't want mini games to be pay only. I don't find I do much on the site, so adding games would be a nice addition perhaps.

[DarkEternity]

I love how people such as yourself keep saying that TJ is not 'interested' in this when it was he himself who raised the discussion point about paid features and is asking about the limits:

How (in)significant does something have to be before it falls under being "pay to win?"

 

He also casts aspersions, as the devil's advocate, over whether or not adding perks would actually cause changes to the inherent gameplay

 

All of this means you'd need some pretty damning evidence to prove that simply introducing more payments to the site would create "haves" and "have nots," even if the payments didn't affect gameplay.

 

You'd need some "pretty damning evidence" that adding perks would pad DC's life out as 'a commercial machine'.

 

Whose speculations are being thrown around with little facts presented? The people suggesting that the paid perks will cause DC to become a 'commercial machine'? Or does that not count as 'speculation'?

 

[AnanoKimi]

I love how people such as yourself keep saying that TJ is not 'interested' in this when it was he himself who raised the discussion point about paid features and is asking about the limits:

 

 

He also casts aspersions, as the devil's advocate, over whether or not adding perks would actually cause changes to the inherent gameplay

 

 

 

You'd need some "pretty damning evidence" that adding perks would pad DC's life out as 'a commercial machine'.

 

Whose speculations are being thrown around with little facts presented?  The people suggesting that the paid perks will cause DC to become a 'commercial machine'? Or does that not count as 'speculation'?

You whole post is answered by this one quote by TJ:

 

not because I care about adding paid perks, but because I'm genuinely curious about how people feel about this subject.

 

He only cares in the smae way I would care if I was in his position: "Why do you think about this subject the way you do? What are your reasons? Whats your back up to that?" Hes curious about what we think about the subject. Plain and simple. There is no real say that paid perks are going to be added but should they be, why should they or shouldnt they?

 

I already gave my reasons why they shouldnt. I have yet to see solid reasons why they should other than because people just feel that saying "Hey this game is cool and costs money to upkeep, maybe I should show my gratitude by tossing a few extra bucks his way" isnt enough.

Edited August 3, 2015 by AnanoKimi

[DarkEternity]

You whole post is answered by this one quote by TJ:

 

Well he's said that he's seen sites where paid perks don't necessarily ruin the a game. I think the same.

And in any case, I for one would rather see DC die naturally when the interest of TJ dies out, instead of pointlessly padding its life as a commercial machine.

CNR4806 on the other hand thinks the exact opposite.

Edited August 3, 2015 by DarkEternity

[AnanoKimi]

I edited my post. And really even if it doesn't ruing the game, the sole purpose of creating pay to play is because the owner/creator of the site wants to financial gain from the site be it for actual upkeep or just for the sake of making people pay for unnecessary stuff which make no real impact on anything important other than small trivial personal wants.

[Taryn123]

... I don't normally play 'pay2play/win' games =/

But even if there is a pay feature, i don't use it, unless it is a must.

( An expansion of pet slots to hoard more pets/ adoptable's - but even then its very cheap. And i've done it once.)