Twins, Triplets, Quadruptles & More?!

[nlechoppa]

It is such a big deal if eggs go into the AP to be enjoyed by someone else apparently? You see, this is why people tend to get hostile at prize owners. A few bad apples tarnish the rest.

 

Back on topic.

This would undoubtly help with ratios, and I see no reason not to add this.

[xxBurningxx]

This suggestion has my support.

 

Although I have to say I lean in the direction of it being a BSA, or controlled in some way. Mainly because I'd hate to seeing pretty eggs that were meant for gifting or trading ending up on a scroll that breeds messy lineages. Even now, I see lineages that are fairly simple to continue being bred with something messy, indicating that the owner either doesn't know about lineages or just doesn't care.

 

I'd hate to see that w/ 2G prizes. Or any patterned lineaged dragon, honestly.

 

But then again, DC is all about playing the game how you like, and it would be nice to be given the chance to grab rares like that off that AP.

 

So all in all, I suppose I'm in support, regardless.

[cyradis4]

I'd like multi-clutches to come back, no if ands or buts about it.

 

But I do know some people are very strongly against it, so.... Here's an older BSA suggestion for multi-clutches:

https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=165731

 

Since its a BSA, a person can choose (or choose not to) use it. And since it has two versions... More play styles can use it.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Fuzzbucket]

This suggestion has my support.

 

Although I have to say I lean in the direction of it being a BSA, or controlled in some way. Mainly because I'd hate to seeing pretty eggs that were meant for gifting or trading ending up on a scroll that breeds messy lineages. Even now, I see lineages that are fairly simple to continue being bred with something messy, indicating that the owner either doesn't know about lineages or just doesn't care.

 

I'd hate to see that w/ 2G prizes. Or any patterned lineaged dragon, honestly.

 

But then again, DC is all about playing the game how you like, and it would be nice to be given the chance to grab rares like that off that AP.

 

So all in all, I suppose I'm in support, regardless.

There is no stigma in not wanting to breed lineages in any particular way. It's a good thing if some players are OK with the ones other players don't like, or the AP would be a lot more clogged than it is. If someone wants, and snags, an egg, and wants to breed it to something you'd rather they didn't - that's just tough. Them's the breaks. If they are enjoying the dragon - THAT's what matters.

 

I am fond of this guy. http://dragcave.net/lineage/PhFNq I guess breeding her was a sin ? Nope.

[dragongrrl]

There is no stigma in not wanting to breed lineages in any particular way. It's a good thing if some players are OK with the ones other players don't like, or the AP would be a lot more clogged than it is. If someone wants, and snags, an egg, and wants to breed it to something you'd rather they didn't - that's just tough. Them's the breaks. If they are enjoying the dragon - THAT's what matters.

 

I am fond of this guy. http://dragcave.net/lineage/PhFNq I guess breeding her was a sin ? Nope.

I cringe when I see the messes that some of my babies are bred into, but my early dragons were not what I would breed or even accept on my scroll now. Yet I still love my old dragons, and I still breed pretties for the AP.

 

I'm still ambivalent about this idea, but I'll keep reading the pros and cons as they are presented.

[olympe]

I think the main con is the control issue - which, in some cases, is even demanded by some lineages. However, even lineage rules can be changed. Of course, we might add messy mass-breedings to that list.

 

Pros are better ratios because there are more blockers being bred. And even with rare x non-rare breedings, if you get 3 eggs instead of one, you'll have a better shot at the rare you were trying for. The commons that go to the AP just might motivate the lucky finder to create a mate, thereby breeding even more commons of just that lineage. Then there is the greater variety of eggs and lineages in the AP.

[Guillotine]

I think the main con is the control issue - which, in some cases, is even demanded by some lineages. However, even lineage rules can be changed. Of course, we might add messy mass-breedings to that list.

 

Pros are better ratios because there are more blockers being bred. And even with rare x non-rare breedings, if you get 3 eggs instead of one, you'll have a better shot at the rare you were trying for. The commons that go to the AP just might motivate the lucky finder to create a mate, thereby breeding even more commons of just that lineage. Then there is the greater variety of eggs and lineages in the AP.

I think that if lineage control is a super big deal for many players it can be fixed by making it an account setting. (e: note that I'm only leaving out BSA since that's a different thread)

 

All your pros are totally correct... And honestly, the additional eggs would probably push down the AP times too, which would make those commons more valuable since they wouldn't be eggs for long. So overall I think it'd be a benefit to the site to implement multiclutching again in some manner.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Guillotine

[AnanoKimi]

There is definitely more good than bad to this suggestion but in the end I would really like to see this as a BSA or heck even account setting though BSA would be far more convenient. Whether it be to induce multiclutching or to stop it from happening if its applied to everything, a way to simply give some of the users who might want to control some of their production regardless of lineages wouldn't be harmful.

[olympe]

There is definitely more good than bad to this suggestion but in the end I would really like to see this as a BSA or heck even account setting though BSA would be far more convenient. Whether it be to induce multiclutching or to stop it from happening if its applied to everything, a way to simply give some of the users who might want to control some of their production regardless of lineages wouldn't be harmful.

BSA would be highly inconvenient for people who want to use it en masse.

[AnanoKimi]

BSA would be highly inconvenient for people who want to use it en masse.

Then why not an account option? There are just as many who breed en masse as those who dont Why not let each person choose? I think this is one of those optional things thats worth making optional.

[nlechoppa]

Then why not an account option? There are just as many who breed en masse as those who dont Why not let each person choose? I think this is one of those optional things thats worth making optional.

I don't get why it has to be optional? It could work perfectly fine without the option to disable.

[CNR4806]

I don't get why it has to be optional? It could work perfectly fine without the option to disable.

Because she wants absolute control.

 

The absolute most that I can agree to is a per-breeding multiclutch-prevention BSA. If disabling multiclutching isn't as big of a PITA as it can be, or simply flat out impossible, the benefits of reimplementing it will be greatly diminished.

 

Yes, I'm suggesting that if a choice is implemented, it needs to be as big of a pain as possible for people who want to disable multiclutching. Because they're trying to disable it for their own gain over the benefits of the entire site.

 

 

This applies to me as well. I do have a few pairs that I would like to retain absolute control if given the choice. And that should not be an easy flick-and-forget switch.

Edited August 17, 2015 by CNR4806

[AnanoKimi]

Because she wants absolute control.

 

The absolute most that I can agree to is a per-breeding multiclutch-prevention BSA. If disabling multiclutching isn't as big of a PITA as it can be, or simply flat out impossible, the benefits of reimplementing it will be greatly diminished.

 

Yes, I'm suggesting that if a choice is implemented, it needs to be as big of a pain as possible for people who want to disable multiclutching. Because they're trying to disable it for their own gain over the benefits of the entire site.

 

 

This applies to me as well. I do have a few pairs that I would like to retain absolute control if given the choice. And that should not be an easy flick-and-forget switch.

I am fine with this really. If I need to work for control over what I want to breed for me then so be it. I don't see why I should be made to put in extra effort in to being able to do what I want for me instead of being forced to do something for everyone else regardless of my input, but so be it.

 

I do not like this idea that I need to do something out of my personal scroll so that it "benefits of the entire site". My scroll should not be at the whims of what everyone else wants but apparently that's not what everyone else seems to think. So again even if I need to put in the extra effort into ensuring my scroll is mine to do with as I please without anyone forcing me to do anything else for them that is not out of my free will then I am okay with that.

[Obscure_Trash]

BSA would be highly inconvenient for people who want to use it en masse.

Not everybody is going to be pleased with whatever system is implemented (if a system is implemented).

[CNR4806]

I am fine with this really. If I need to work for control over what I want to breed for me then so be it. I don't see why I should be made to put in extra effort in to being able to do what I want for me instead of being forced to do something for everyone else regardless of my input, but so be it.

 

I do not like this idea that I need to do something out of my personal scroll so that it "benefits of the entire site". My scroll should not be at the whims of what everyone else wants but apparently that's not what everyone else seems to think. So again even if I need to put in the extra effort into ensuring my scroll is mine to do with as I please without anyone forcing me to do anything else for them that is not out of my free will then I am okay with that.

You see, this is exactly why I stated this "choice" thing needs to be as big as a PITA as technically possible for the "no multiclutching" side if available at all, and I have a feeling that even a normal BSA on a common dragon would not be enough of a dissuasion for these people to not spam it just for the hell of it.

 

At the slightest mention of something that will go out of their iron fists' control, people start hysterically demanding that it be optional as they want complete control because THIS IS MY PRECIOUS or because they just want complete control. This has been evident in every thread about multiclutching, regardless of the mention of prizes and regardless of whether the OP of that particular thread mentions about choice.

 

If this part of the userbase can easily get away from a system where everyone is supposed to be a contributor to the AP egg variety, this system would lose massive amounts of steam and would be a waste of coding time.

 

What else than multiclutching is going to naturally populate the AP with eggs that are of lineage value, which is brought up as one of the concerns toward AP punting-based ratios fixing mechanisms, which would make massive injections of CB eggs into the AP and make the current 100% user-driven bred egg injection looks like a joke? Massbreeding the wilderness is certainly not going to work in this regard.

 

 

I'm talking about a big picture and a pretty big vision here. AP punting AND natural multiclutching to both make the ratios work themselves out better and ensure a healthy lineage variety of the AP, and an easy flick-and-forget multiclutch switch is not going to make this work.

Edited August 17, 2015 by CNR4806

[Fuzzbucket]

You see, this is exactly why I stated this "choice" thing needs to be as big as a PITA as technically possible for the "no multiclutching" side if available at all, and I have a feeling that even a normal BSA on a common dragon would not be enough of a dissuasion for these people to not spam it just for the hell of it.

 

At the slightest mention of something that will go out of their iron fists' control, people start hysterically demanding that it be optional as they want complete control because THIS IS MY PRECIOUS or because they just want complete control. This has been evident in every thread about multiclutching, regardless of the mention of prizes and regardless of whether the OP of that particular thread mentions about choice.

 

If this part of the userbase can easily get away from a system where everyone is supposed to be a contributor to the AP egg variety, this system would lose massive amounts of steam and would be a waste of coding time.

 

What else than multiclutching is going to naturally populate the AP with eggs that are of lineage value, which is brought up as one of the concerns toward AP punting-based ratios fixing mechanisms, which would make massive injections of CB eggs into the AP and make the current 100% user-driven bred egg injection looks like a joke? Massbreeding the wilderness is certainly not going to work in this regard.

 

 

I'm talking about a big picture and a pretty big vision here. AP punting AND natural multiclutching to both make the ratios work themselves out better and ensure a healthy lineage variety of the AP, and an easy flick-and-forget multiclutch switch is not going to make this work.

I have to say I rather agree with this.

[nlechoppa]

I am fine with this really. If I need to work for control over what I want to breed for me then so be it. I don't see why I should be made to put in extra effort in to being able to do what I want for me instead of being forced to do something for everyone else regardless of my input, but so be it.

 

I do not like this idea that I need to do something out of my personal scroll so that it "benefits of the entire site". My scroll should not be at the whims of what everyone else wants but apparently that's not what everyone else seems to think. So again even if I need to put in the extra effort into ensuring my scroll is mine to do with as I please without anyone forcing me to do anything else for them that is not out of my free will then I am okay with that.

I'd like to know why you have to keep control over the breeding, say if your prize multiclutched and someone else got it. Why is this such a big deal to you, that no one except you and your friends can have eggs from those pair?

[Obscure_Trash]

I'd like to know why you have to keep control over the breeding, say if your prize multiclutched and someone else got it. Why is this such a big deal to you, that no one except you and your friends can have eggs from those pair?

I'm quoting you just because you're the most recent post about this - I'm not trying to single you out or pick on you. <3

 

~

 

I understand that prizes are a big deal because not everyone can get a cb, but this discussion really should not center around just prizes. Other users who are not cb prize owners have posted about not supporting automatic multiclutching. And hey, look at the trading section. How many people in departures use a teleport rather than a transfer link for gifts? How many users gift on the forum rather than abandon so they can gift "with strings" (you can't bite this, you must name this, etc.)? How many users were upset about not being able to use teleport links in the new take an egg; leave an egg thread? Remember the hoopla when teleport was implemented because people were worried users would not abandon any rares - simply teleport/transfer them instead? A lot of users like to know where their dragons' babies go to. It's a common worry/concern for a lot of people - some people for all their dragons and others for certain pairs.

 

So let's please not focus purely on prizes. This discussion should be about overall breeding - which is going to be majority commons (in the AP anyway).

[AnanoKimi]

Everyone is supposed to be a contributor in their own rights not for the sake of everyone else. The AP is made to dump what we as users no longer want to keep on our scrolls. If some decide to use it as a donation pool so that those who hunt there get something nice, then cool, but forcing everyone to do the same is not how the AP was meant to work.

 

Even if the lineages or mates are nice, its why fails appear there. They were fails, the user who bred that egg did not need that result and as such dumped it. They needed something else and as such the result from that pair was an unnecessary and unwanted one so they got rid of it. This isn't the case will all AP dumps but its the case with most. People dump miss clicks, breeding fails, miss breedings, etc. Again the fact that some people breed and dump for the hell of it whether its nice lineages or not is completely up to them and their personal choice.

 

Forcing someone to take on that idea and making dump everything they breed just because some do it is not how you do things. If someone wants to breed nice things for others at little to no cost, then that's their choice. If they want to breed to dump solely to the AP, that's their choice. If they want to breed for themselves and only for themselves or only for a specific few, that is their choice. Everyone plays and breeds differently and as nice as it would be for people to do nice things for others, forcing them to do said nice things no longer makes it a nice thing. It makes it a begrudging consequence of which they had no say in despite it being something they own.

 

Again, I see what you are getting at and agree to some degree, and again making it so those who want to keep control go through some effort to get that is fine, but imposing that "If you don't share and breed nice things for everyone makes this game pointless" is not how this game works. The AP was not made as a donation pool. it was made for users to rid themselves of eggs or hatchlings they did not want on their scrolls. The fact that line lineages, it evolved into something bigger doesn't mean it should be imposed on everyone.

 

Like lineages, the AP has taken an added for of use, again as a randomized donation pool. But simply because it has this added use doesn't mean everyone must abide by it. Its like saying that because linage types and breeding is a thing everyone has to breed things with nice lineages so that the entire site has something nice to breed and work with that isnt messies and making it so that the site does not allow messy lineages to be bred because it does not benefit the entire site.

[olympe]

You know, I remember when I was still new, and didn't have anything (much), definitely nothing worth anything. I remember catching my very first few trios in the AP (since I was too slow to get them in the cave - and didn't put in that much of an effort, thinking that I'd be able to get them later since it was a permanent release. Yeah, the joke was on me.) I never checked if these trios were in the AP due to multi-clutching or not, but I imagine that, with multiclutching, there were more trios than without. And the same would have to be true about a lot of other things, be it rares or commons with an amazingly beautiful lineage. Things that noobs (without amazing hunting abilities) cannot get their hands on under normal circumstances. Personally, I'm still grateful to all the people who - willingly or not quite - added to my scroll this way. And I feel like the people who join now deserve the same kind of treatment that the oldies among us had. Because nothing beats finding something precious on your own. Not even being gifted the very same precious thing.

 

Of course, way back when (before teleport), there was a bit of a loophole that gave people a chance to "send" several eggs from one clutch to several recipients. (dragcave.net/abandoned/code, combined with a full AP, combined with telling people exactly when those eggs hit the full AP and were not visible to the general public. Happened with at least one Holly multiclutch way back when there were only about 100 hollies on active scrolls.) But most people weren't using this loophole, I think.

 

Of course, I only had one multi-clutch (outside of holiday breeding seasons), I got magi twins. And, of course, the twin I had to let go died as an egg due to neglect. Naturally, I wasn't happy about it, but, seriously, we're all old enough to get over something like that.

 

 

I'd also like to point out that multiclutches outside of holiday breedings have been disabled for a reason. And that reason probably wasn't that multis weren't needed any more, but that multis added to the problem known as AP-blocking. (If there were 36 or more eggs in the AP, the cave was blocked, so no CB eggs to hunt. The cave re-opened when the AP had no more than 30 eggs in it.) Frankly, AP blocking was annoying, and has since been taken care of.

 

Considering the state of the cave, with the never-ending blocker problem, I think that multis would help in balancing the ratios to some extent. Adding the AP punting idea that's been suggested in another thread will help even more. In any case, we'll all benefit from more balanced ratios, which is why I have to agree with CNR that preventing multis should be a PITA.

[AnanoKimi]

I'd like to know why you have to keep control over the breeding, say if your prize multiclutched and someone else got it. Why is this such a big deal to you, that no one except you and your friends can have eggs from those pair?

Did I say only me and my friends get eggs I breed? I stated I like to gift the eggs I produce, whether they be 2nd gen prizes or rares, to people I know have little to none of that breed I am gifting. I control how I gift because I want to ensure that people who have already collected tons of that breed arent the only ones that get what I am offering. Please look through my posts to understand my position on this.

Edited August 17, 2015 by AnanoKimi

[Fuzzbucket]

Everyone is supposed to be a contributor in their own rights not for the sake of everyone else. The AP is made to dump what we as users no longer want to keep on our scrolls. If some decide to use it as a donation pool so that those who hunt there get something nice, then cool, but forcing everyone to do the same is not how the AP was meant to work.

How do you know how it was INTENDED to work ? Has TJ ever spelt that out ? (seriously.)

 

In any event - multiclutching with autoanbandoning works GREAT for holidays; so why not for other eggs too ? And like others - I feel very strongly that it would help with ratios.

 

edited for misnaming TJ !

Edited August 17, 2015 by fuzzbucket

[AnanoKimi]

Again, not against multiclutching in totality but more for making sure its optional without too much extra effort. I don't see why it needs to be made so hard to prevent multi clutching from being a thing with certain breeding pairs that are going to be bred. Heck it could be made so that like fertility it only has to be applied to one dragon so that any dragon the affected dragon breeds with doesn't make a multi clutch. I know it would help ratios and if people want to breed that way sure, lets implement it on all breeds as a default mode to how eggs are produced, but lets also add in a way that users can prevent said default through a BSA or account option. This way those who do not feel like they want to participate don't have to. That way for example like me, I can ensure that I give my eggs to those who have little to none of that breed rather than someone who already has an avid collection of them to get it.

 

Again forcing someone to do something that may be good takes the good away from it if its not done out of the person's own choice. It ceases being a good deed when the deed is forced upon the one doing it and its just a deed. They did it because they had to not because they actually wanted to do something nice.

[NotBambi]

You see, this is exactly why I stated this "choice" thing needs to be as big as a PITA as technically possible for the "no multiclutching" side if available at all, and I have a feeling that even a normal BSA on a common dragon would not be enough of a dissuasion for these people to not spam it just for the hell of it.

 

At the slightest mention of something that will go out of their iron fists' control, people start hysterically demanding that it be optional as they want complete control because THIS IS MY PRECIOUS or because they just want complete control. This has been evident in every thread about multiclutching, regardless of the mention of prizes and regardless of whether the OP of that particular thread mentions about choice.

 

If this part of the userbase can easily get away from a system where everyone is supposed to be a contributor to the AP egg variety, this system would lose massive amounts of steam and would be a waste of coding time.

 

What else than multiclutching is going to naturally populate the AP with eggs that are of lineage value, which is brought up as one of the concerns toward AP punting-based ratios fixing mechanisms, which would make massive injections of CB eggs into the AP and make the current 100% user-driven bred egg injection looks like a joke? Massbreeding the wilderness is certainly not going to work in this regard.

 

 

I'm talking about a big picture and a pretty big vision here. AP punting AND natural multiclutching to both make the ratios work themselves out better and ensure a healthy lineage variety of the AP, and an easy flick-and-forget multiclutch switch is not going to make this work.

100% agreeing with this ^^

[Fuzzbucket]

Again, not against multiclutching in totality but more for making sure its optional without too much extra effort. I don't see why it needs to be made so hard to prevent multi clutching from being a thing with certain breeding pairs that are going to be bred. Heck it could be made so that like fertility it only has to be applied to one dragon so that any dragon the affected dragon breeds with doesn't make a multi clutch. I know it would help ratios and if people want to breed that way sure, lets implement it on all breeds as a default mode to how eggs are produced, but lets also add in a way that users can prevent said default through a BSA or account option. This way those who do not feel like they want to participate don't have to. That way for example like me, I can ensure that I give my eggs to those who have little to none of that breed rather than someone who already has an avid collection of them to get it.

 

Again forcing someone to do something that may be good takes the good away from it if its not done out of the person's own choice. It ceases being a good deed when the deed is forced upon the one doing it and its just a deed. They did it because they had to not because they actually wanted to do something nice.

But you would still be able to have one to gift - just as you can now. Just that there might (in the unlikely event that you got two pretties in one multiclutch) be someone else benefiting as well.

 

If this were to happen, I'd rather it were a "prevent multiclutching" BSA - with a fail rate - applied to one dragon at a time, like fertility and holding up for one breeding only. I wouldn't want to see it the other way around.

Edited August 17, 2015 by fuzzbucket