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Jazeki

So Your Dragons Refuse To Go Near Each Other

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As per Sock's suggestion in the Refuse to Have Refusals! thread, I've decided to start this thread as a place to discuss your experiences with refusals and post your pairings that have refused.

 

This is not a place to discuss about whether or not the BSA should be removed. That is what the aforementioned suggestion thread is for. Please note that this is also not a rant thread.

 

If you want to be really specific about posting your refused pairs, feel free to use the following code:

[B]Date of Refusal:[/B]Insert Date Here.
[B]Time of Refusal:[/B]Insert Time Here.
[B]Pairing That Refused:[/B][Dragon's Lineage URL]x [Dragons's View URL]
[B]Dragon Breeds:[/B] Insert the Breed of Both Dragons Here.
[B]Fertility Used:[/B] Yes or No.
[B]Extra Info:[/B] Insert  Any Extra Information Here. (For example, how long it took you to acquire a mate or how replaceable the pairing is.)
 

 

Note: Stats are out of date and no longer being updated. However, this thread will continue to be open for discussion.

 

Update 4/2/2015- MessengerDragon's thread about newly grown dragons refusing each other has been merged into this thread.

Update 12/31/2015- Will be making a spreadsheet with breed refusals to clean up the OP.

Update 2/1/2016-First bit of info on spreadsheet added. Will be updating with more info ASAP.

Update 8/13/2016-Slowly adding breed stats back to spreadsheet. Thread stats are still being updated by month.

Update 9/11/2016-Updated code to include whether or not a user tried fertility on the pairing--as per Sock's suggestion.

 

 

This post is to be updated as necessary.

 

Current Thread Stats

Number of refusals reported to date: 787* through the month of September(10/19/2016 9:19PM Cave Time)

Google Sheet with more in-depth stats (currently includes breakdown of reported refusals by month and breed- updated 8/13/2016 12:00PM Cave Time)

 

Updated breed stats through page 7 of this thread (9/1).

 

*estimated amount. Some posts are more specific than others.

Edited by Jazeki

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I had one yesterday but the dragon types slip my mind. What is this thread meant to accomplish? Just a record of Refusals? To what end?

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I had one yesterday but the dragon types slip my mind. What is this thread meant to accomplish? Just a record of Refusals? To what end?

Looks to me like a refusal rant thread.

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For what it's worth, my situation both feels normal (I've never noticed anything strange) and looks normal, too (insomuch as I can judge what's normal):

 

Looking at all new pairs that I've tried since the first of January (with a script) gives me:

 

Amount of new pairs: 94

Of those, refusals: 11

  • Refusals
    • Plastic Merchandise (Christmas) x Anneark (Lumina)
    • Karyorrhexis (Gold) x Godshatter (Guardian of Nature)
    • Razortoxin (Fever) x Kalintura (Fever)
    • Karyorrhexis (Gold) x Lavender Peach (Ridgewing)
    • Vuorovesir (Red-finned Tidal) x White Measles (Christmas)
    • Toxic Locket (Radiant Angel) x Toxinlined (Fever)
    • Zurian (White) x Yaquta (Pyralspite)
    • Fandango Peach (Ridgewing) x Kotanechiku (Silver)
    • Adenanthos Elevation (Pink) x Protean Coast (Pink)
    • Crimson Peach (Ridgewing) x Kotanechiku (Silver)
    • Fandango Peach (Ridgewing) x Chandarmaneth (Silver)
  • Did not refuse (new pairs only)
    • Devourer of Gifts (Christmas) x Valovanje (Tsunami)
    • Irizecor (Sunsong Amphiptere) x Furcoat (Christmas)
    • Jeneth (Gold) x Sunset on my Wings (Christmas)
    • Devourer of Gifts (Christmas) x Anneark (Lumina)
    • Plastic Merchandise (Christmas) x Vapoure (Undine)
    • Jeneth (Gold) x Godshatter (Guardian of Nature)
    • Shahrivrath (Silver) x Thorngale (Storm)
    • Davinath (Silver) x Bramblegust (Storm)
    • Paasselkan (Shadow Walker) x Ariqa (Magma)
    • Kerasukan (Desipis) x Crushed Mind (Turpentine)
    • Karyorrhexis (Gold) x Overexposure (Christmas)
    • Rustfire (Black Marrow) x Aciya (Hellfire)
    • Tussmorken (Nhiostrife Wyvern) x Rose Ribbon (Rosebud)
    • Makeinen (Heartseeker) x Moshirechiku (Gold)
    • Pyrexian (Fever) x Zuneigung (Arsani)
    • Subvocal (Cavern Lurker) x Ocean's Treachery (Arsani)
    • Ruby Whisper (Shadow Walker) x Ghostly Rubel (Arsani)
    • Grim Whisper (Shadow Walker) x Sandor Arbitration Intelligence (Arsani)
    • Sefeq (Nhiostrife Wyvern) x Zaertlichkeit (Arsani)
    • (wUVEr) (Nebula) x Radiant Virtue (Arsani)
    • Lecherous Greed (Gold) x Inherent Worth (Arsani)
    • Csikohalak (Gold) x Saccharine Sun (Arsani)
    • Kayax (Bleeding Moon) x Sweet Vinegar (Arsani)
    • Heretic Blossom (Blusang) x Through The Heart (Rosebud)
    • Concealed Vice (Flamingo) x Gemuetlichkeit (Arsani)
    • Plush Omega (Flamingo) x Prunk (Arsani)
    • Warm Flutter (Flamingo) x Promised Dance (Arsani)
    • Bright Cerise (Flamingo) x Distant Yearning (Arsani)
    • Vibrant Poetry (Nhiostrife Wyvern) x Alluring Tempest (Arsani)
    • Sturmflut (Nhiostrife Wyvern) x Zuneigung (Arsani)
    • Fandango Peach (Ridgewing) x Karkadanna (Gold)
    • Crimson Peach (Ridgewing) x Moshirechiku (Gold)
    • Jeneth (Gold) x Tyrian Peach (Ridgewing)
    • Cracked Volition (Magma) x Kafayatakma (Desipis)
    • Cracked Psyche (Magma) x Sinasapian (Desipis)
    • Cracked Will (Magma) x Jamaisavu (Desipis)
    • Cracked Thoughts (Magma) x Aprosodia (Desipis)
    • Beowulff (Radiant Angel) x Maenona (Fever)
    • Garukaron (Fever) x Zalaagra (Fever)
    • Alacakaranlik (Nhiostrife Wyvern) x Szurkulet (Nhiostrife Wyvern)
    • Serksnas (Frostbite) x Jinovatka (Frostbite)
    • Turpentoil (Turpentine) x Turpentea (Turpentine)
    • Turpentumult (Turpentine) x Zaertlichkeit (Arsani)
    • Makeinen (Heartseeker) x Talvira (Seasonal)
    • Razortoxin (Fever) x Q'urudaara (Fever)
    • Plastic Merchandise (Christmas) x Kalintura (Fever)
    • Astringence (Red-finned Tidal) x Emerald Strawberry (Christmas)
    • Reshigah (Speckle-Throated) x Cleptocordial (Heartstealing)
    • Senjar (Sunset) x Quiet Kiss (Heartstealing)
    • Lustrous Lamella (Ridgewing) x Rose Ribbon (Rosebud)
    • Soft Tribble (Pillow) x Soft Affection (Arsani)
    • Kal Ryrrha (Daydream) x Siren of Serenity (Rosebud)
    • Bombono (Heartseeker) x Devi Ravi (Albino)
    • Eternal Iridium (Silver) x Liebesschmerz (Arsani)
    • Violet Hurricane (Nhiostrife Wyvern) x Thydeme (Christmas)
    • Escher Topology (Fever) x Deepfrost (Christmas)
    • Frostlined (Frostbite) x Sculpted Snow (Christmas)
    • Turpenterror (Turpentine) x Oilfrost (Christmas)
    • Ferruxe (Copper) x Zuneigung (Arsani)
    • Karyorrhexis (Gold) x Royal Dye (Ridgewing)
    • Papyrustled (Christmas) x Toxic Plastic (Fever)
    • Chromatic Toxin (Christmas) x Hyperrazor (Fever)
    • Woodcarver (Black Tea) x Sweet Tisane (Arsani)
    • Cracked Mind (Magma) x Grimgot (Desipis)
    • Palavik (Fever) x Zaertlichkeit (Arsani)
    • Cometshadow (White) x Blizzardgift (Christmas)
    • Salamangkan (Cassare) x Kananmuna (White)
    • Taikuus (Cassare) x A'eevoree (White)
    • Spume (White) x Delimai (Pyralspite)
    • Nachbarlichkeit (Horse) x Untamed Love (Arsani)
    • Thorntoxin (Fever) x Poisonous Lust (Arsani)
    • Toxic Locket (Radiant Angel) x Venomlined (Fever)
    • Indigo Gazelle (Swallowtail) x Zaertlichkeit (Arsani)
    • Lustrous Lamella (Ridgewing) x Karkadanna (Gold)
    • Jeneth (Gold) x Lavender Peach (Ridgewing)
    • Karyorrhexis (Gold) x Tyrian Peach (Ridgewing)
    • Arbatan (Black Tea) x Sunset on my Wings (Christmas)
    • Tussmorken (Nhiostrife Wyvern) x Furcoat (Christmas)
    • Zartes Blau (Swallowtail) x Tattered Membranes (Arsani)
    • Vaewolf (Bleeding Moon) x Shackled Desire (Arsani)
    • Most Timid (Red-finned Tidal) x White Measles (Christmas)
    • Sugar Eleno (White) x Paled Love (Arsani)
    • Gahrahno (Tsunami) x Lovetide (Arsani)
The one's I've struck out were holiday pairs first bred during the holidays. I could test the non-holiday-holiday pairings of those again and find out if they would refuse if someone wants me to, though. Edited by pinkgothic

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I don't believe that this is meant as a "rant" thread, so much as it's a place to gather information. There are people who are experiencing higher rates of refusals, and by listing that information we can qualify that statement to defend our claim.

 

And to that end, I just had two lineage refusal in back to back breedings. 4th gen pair of geodes, and a set of 4th gen falconiforms.

 

 

Edited by Sir Barton

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I keep record since the end of January this year, and out of 63 possible refusals (which means pairings not including a holiday during their season and also no already bred pairings) 9 did refuse, which means a percentage of about 14%.

I haven't bread a lot before, so I don't know if it's normal or not, but for me it does feel normal, so... well. What I found interesting is that out of those refusals I had a tsunami refusing three frostbites in a row - so a third of those come down to one exact dragon. I guess it's just the odds, but I thought it was interesting.

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Looks to me like a refusal rant thread.

I didn't mean that to come out as snarkish as it did - I've just never seen TJ weigh in on the Refuse to Have Refusals thread in Suggestions. Has he ever aired his opinion on getting rid of Refusals? Has anyone come out and ASKED him what the chances of changing it or getting rid of it were?

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I had one yesterday but the dragon types slip my mind. What is this thread meant to accomplish? Just a record of Refusals? To what end?

Partly because a lot of people are saying they don't see anything out of the ordinary while others of us feel like the refusal rate has gone wacky.

 

Pinkgothic had 11 refusals out of 94 and NightEagle had a slightly higher rate with 9 out of 63, and me...well the other day I had 4 out of 5 refuse and my typical rate lately seems to be around 50%.

But I haven't been keeping a strict accounting, so maybe this is the place to keep up with that to get a more accurate idea of just how bad the situation is or isn't?

 

3/19

bbw prizefail x bbw prizefail

pink v'day checker x white v'day checker

lumina/frill x bbw/frill

-don't remember the other

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3 days ago I got a refusal of my only CB Wrapping Wing X my only female GON... Goodbye to the possible Avatars -.-

Also got first Mistletoe refusal... I'm afraid to breed holidays with rare dragons now.

Edited by WoLfgIrLyS

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Just had a really disappointing Refusal

 

http://dragcave.net/actions/pg7jN/breed/cWy3r

 

between 2 2gen PB TAN RidgeWings

@ 11:36 AM

Sunday, 22 March, 2015

 

@WoLfgIrLS, I could try and breed you one if you like.

 

ETA: Once my GoNs come off cooldown that is.

Edited by Ayelldee

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Date of Refusal:March 22, 2015

Time of Refusal:12:56 PM

Pairing That Refused: http://dragcave.net/actions/y1Orj/breed/Smm62

Dragon Breeds: MamaxSilver Tinsel

Extra Info: Insert Any Extra Information Here. (For example, how long it took you to acquire a mate or how replaceable the pairing is.)

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Date of Refusal: February 27, 2015

Time of Refusal: When they refused... tongue.gif

Pairing That Refused:GoN x Magma

Extra Info: First time breeding either of them to anything.

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I don't believe that this is meant as a "rant" thread, so much as it's a place to gather information. There are people who are experiencing higher rates of refusals, and by listing that information we can qualify that statement to defend our claim.

Ah. Okay. That makes sense.

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@ Odd and Dew- The other posters are right. This is mainly meant to be a thread for gathering information about refusals. Many people believe that the mechanic has changed and want to provide evidence to support that opinion (especially if TJ does decide to weigh in on the matter).

Edited by Jazeki

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Date of Refusal: 22 march 2015

Time of Refusal: 4:14 pm

Pairing That Refused: http://dragcave.net/lineage/rkAFo x http://dragcave.net/lineage/ajE6i

Dragon Breeds: Pink x Pink

Extra Info: I've had both for some time but never got around to trying them until today. I have one 2nd gen of the Gold x Old Pink base, but I will probably need to trade or be very lucky in the AP to find unrelated mates for these dragons.

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Solstice and Mistletoe. The Solstice case will teach me to choose mates off season, so I'm 100% sure they're compatible: they gave me eggs at Christmas, but they secretly hated each other.

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I am going to keep a running count of new pair results by week, in this thread. I think that singular refusals without the supporting data of how many total pairs were tried will not be very effective. From what I've seen so far, though, it already seems as though the base rate of refusals is set pretty high at upwards of 10%. When factoring in things like difficulty of procuring mates, difficulty of breeding the right breed, and little interest, that already seems like an extraordinarily high rate. Add in that I know with absolute certainty that I have been getting a higher rate than that over the past several months, and something seems very off. Data, however, speak much more loudly than do proclamations.

 

I am defining success as an egg produce or no egg produced. A failure is either a refusal or little interest, but the two will still be listed separately.

 

Week/Day

March 20-21: 66% refused, 33% success

March 22: 20% refused, 20% little interest, 60% successMarch 24: 27% refused, 0.09% little interest, 63.6% successMarch 27: 20% refused, 80% succesful Edited by harlequinraven

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Solstice and Mistletoe. The Solstice case will teach me to choose mates off season, so I'm 100% sure they're compatible: they gave me eggs at Christmas, but they secretly hated each other.

Sorry for the double post, but I don't want to clutter my data gathering post and just saw this.

 

Two holidays paired together will ALWAYS refuse one another outside of their holidays.

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Sorry for the double post, but I don't want to clutter my data gathering post and just saw this.

 

Two holidays paired together will ALWAYS refuse one another outside of their holidays.

I don't think Lizzyluna tried to breed solstices with mistletoes, as both are female, hence this would not be possible. I think she was speaking about breeding both of them with other mates, who breed during christmas but refused afterwards. But of course I don't know for sure. (;

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I don't think Lizzyluna tried to breed solstices with mistletoes, as both are female, hence this would not be possible. I think she was speaking about breeding both of them with other mates, who breed during christmas but refused afterwards. But of course I don't know for sure. (;

Derp! I was not paying close attention to genders. I just saw two holidays and thought she meant that. blink.gif

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Date of Refusal: 3/22/2015

Time of Refusal: 6:19 PM

Pairing That Refused: http://dragcave.net/lineage/Ulu7v x http://dragcave.net/lineage/2Fs0t

Dragon Breeds: Bronze Shimmer

Extra Info: Now, admittedly, these two were somewhat easy to get, but the pairing is amazing and I am very disappointed that they refused. I've been working on several dart lineages, and they were perfect for each other. *sob* there goes part two of the lineage.

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@ Odd and Dew- The other posters are right. This is mainly meant to be a thread for gathering information about refusals. Many people believe that the mechanic has changed and want to provide evidence to support that opinion (especially if TJ does decide to weigh in on the matter).

Thanks for clearing that up. ^^ I'll post the results when I finish test breeding pairs for the Easter and Earth Day breeding events.

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March 22

 

Just had this Pink: Zarla DeFrille 2G BPinkFrill grow up today http://dragcave.net/lineage/ad77U

 

for this Pink: 2nd BPinkFrill, waiting since Aug 2011 for a mate http://dragcave.net/lineage/PXnNG

 

Refusal

 

I was also hoping to finally build a mate for this 3rd gen Bright Pink and Frill: http://dragcave.net/lineage/a5GNA which has been waiting since June 2011 for a mate, so this spoils two lots of pairings.

 

Also means they can't be properly named until properly mated, or I'll forget about them.

 

 

I've only recently started keeping track of who refused whom and will just start posting those happening among new pairings as of now.

 

 

(In response to the 1st page discussion of what the page is for and whether the current Refusal rate is normal or has increased at the rate some of us feel it has, even if it is considered to be a new 'normal', it's still wrecking the fun of breeding and the excitement of gaining lovely new dragons for many of us and taking progressively more fun out of the game, which seems counter-productive.)

 

 

 

Edit: whoops, didn't think of checking the action log to get the time: Mar 22, 2015, 03:18 pm

 

Odd, Account actions doesn't specify Refusals, just says 'bred' - no canon salutes, funeral meats or tiny coffins to bury our hopes in, lol.

Edited by Syphoneira

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Thanks for all of your input, everyone! I'll probably be updating the first post with something like a list of the number of refusals according to the following outcomes:

 

-number of refusals involving common/rare/uncommon status dragons

-number of refusals holidays/prizes/special status dragons

-number of refusals per breed

-number of refusals according to time of breeding (having the clock should help for those who don't want to check the action log)

 

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I had one yesterday but the dragon types slip my mind. What is this thread meant to accomplish? Just a record of Refusals? To what end?

The biggest purpose, from the standpoint of me who just came from the "Refuse to have Refusals" thread, is to stop these things from flooding that thread, which is a place for discussing potential changes to the refusal system, not for posting "I have another refusal today".

 

The existence of a link to that thread in this one accomplishes the goal of raising awareness of the suggestion and the discussion around it, all without flooding it with refusal reports. It also has the benefit of concentrating the refusal reports in one place, which makes its scale easier to see.

Edited by CNR4806

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