ANSWERED:Distributing New Prizes/Special/Limited Dragons

[SullenCat]

Lol I wasn't at all saying you couldn't have an opinion. You literally bumped the thread because you wanted the game back... So, I linked a thread that had a suggestion for bringing the game back.

The biggest difference being that TJ showed interest on this and not on the other one. Again, you are free to disagree with the concept. Afford me the same courtesy. I like this because links playing to earning.

 

BY the way, the intention was not to discuss the store here. There is a thread for that.

Edited April 12, 2016 by SullenCat

[schenanigans]

The biggest difference being that TJ showed interest on this and not on the other one. Again, you are free to disagree with the concept. Afford me the same courtesy. I like this because links playing to earning.

 

BY the way, the intention was not to discuss the store here. There is a thread for that.

I understand that, as I said earlier that I was mentioning another thread to you in case the game was your main goal.

 

As for this thread, then as is my right with my opinion, I would much rather have the store than have this implemented. I do not agree with this suggestion.

[SullenCat]

I understand that, as I said earlier that I was mentioning another thread to you in case the game was your main goal.

 

As for this thread, then as is my right with my opinion, I would much rather have the store than have this implemented. I do not agree with this suggestion.

I've no idea why you decided to go off-topic and discuss the store (different suggestion) here instead of discussing the merits or demerits of THIS suggestion. I refuse to argue.

[schenanigans]

I've no idea why you decided to go off-topic and discuss the store (different suggestion) here instead of discussing the merits or demerits of THIS suggestion. I refuse to argue.

When presented with two options for getting Prizes/Special/Limited/otherwise exclusive dragons, I'm merely stating - I don't prefer this suggestion presented, because I prefer another suggestion presented. That is absolutely on topic. Fuzzbucket presented the same argument, which I wholeheartedly agree with.

[NotBambi]

When presented with two options for getting Prizes/Special/Limited/otherwise exclusive dragons, I'm merely stating - I don't prefer this suggestion presented, because I prefer another suggestion presented. That is absolutely on topic. Fuzzbucket presented the same argument, which I wholeheartedly agree with.

Frankly I don't understand. Can't both options coexist? Who said that must be this or something else? The store suggestion incorporated a different, third suggestion (BTW posted by the same OP that posted this one) about earning with activity. If choices are available, someone can choose to earn with activity, someone else with the game. Why not?

Edited April 12, 2016 by NotBambi

[schenanigans]

Frankly I don't understand. Can't both options coexist? Who said that must be this or something else? The store suggestion incorporated a different, third suggestion, (posted by the same OP that posted this one) about earning with activity. If choices are available,  someone can choose to earn with activity, someone else with the game. Why not?

The store included minigames for earning points for earning dragons. If I understand the first post of this thread (and TJ's responses) correctly, then earning dragons via this suggestion would be entirely based on how well you do in the minigames, as opposed to the store's idea of earning points to buy the dragons.

 

I suppose, technically... yeah? People can earn them via the store AND by doing well in the game if both were implemented, I guess. But in that case, I am still not a fan of this suggestion, as I agree with what fuzzbucket said - I don't want to grind or feel as if I am grinding a game to earn the dragons, and would rather just have the store if presented with the option. I have left online games such as this in the past because they felt way too grindy and I generally don't enjoy minigames if I'm having to spend an extensive amount of time on them to earn something.

[NotBambi]

I went looking for the suggestion I was referencing, here it is:

 

https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showt...954&hl=activity

 

Editing to avoid double posting:

I think that Mana Alchemy was wonderful, the ticket mechanism was already there and could, probably, be used. I like the idea of whatever allows special dragons to be earned, this suggestion just seems easier to implement on the short term. And did I mention that I love Mana Alchemy?

Edited April 13, 2016 by NotBambi

[schenanigans]

I went looking for the suggestion I was referencing, here it is:

 

https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showt...954&hl=activity

As the thread you linked is saying - playing the game based on activity earns you points. And you're suggesting - some can do this, and some can play the minigames. Now, having both ways to earn - activity & minigames - I hate this idea, based on this suggestion. Because now, people who do not, cannot, or will not play the minigames are behind the people who are going to do both, play the minigame AND earn based on activity. Because this thread doesn't suggest earning points for the exclusive dragons, but rather that you are playing for a chance to earn/win the exclusive dragons.

 

Either way, I don't see how the linked thread is different than the store? Both earn points for breeding, catching, etc.

 

Pro Store & Against this thread/activity thread because -

•Store has activity & minigames (so best of both worlds); if I don't want to play minigames, I can make up the points/currency in other activities

•Store has a more even playing ground for reaching the end goal

•I don't have to: continue to play the minigames, get better at the minigames, spend too much time in the minigames, etc. to earn the dragons I'd like

 

 

Did I mention - we can play/try to implement the minigames elsewhere that are not directly linked to earning dragons? I agree that the prize dragons should be earned, I'm just more inclined to earn them in other ways than this. I'd rather the playing field be more even across the board for players, and I don't feel that this thread can offer that as well. It might be easier to implement quicker, but I'd rather a better mechanic be introduced, even if it may take longer.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Areous

[SullenCat]

The store included minigames for earning points for earning dragons. If I understand the first post of this thread (and TJ's responses) correctly, then earning dragons via this suggestion would be entirely based on how well you do in the minigames, as opposed to the store's idea of earning points to buy the dragons.

 

I suppose, technically... yeah? People can earn them via the store AND by doing well in the game if both were implemented, I guess. But in that case, I am still not a fan of this suggestion, as I agree with what fuzzbucket said - I don't want to grind or feel as if I am grinding a game to earn the dragons, and would rather just have the store if presented with the option. I have left online games such as this in the past because they felt way too grindy and I generally don't enjoy minigames if I'm having to spend an extensive amount of time on them to earn something.

I think you are missing the fact that this suggestion was made before the store suggestion, so, no, it was not excluding the store. The store incorporated different suggestions afterwards, including the suggestion about activity. In the meantime, here is what happened:

 

"Mini-games

This idea is to be worked out at a later date and is not included at this time in this suggestion."

 

Since the mini-games are not, per Thuban's post, included in the suggestion, I decided to bring this one back up.

 

 

Pro Store & Against this thread/activity thread because -

•Store has activity & minigames (so best of both worlds); if I don't want to play minigames, I can make up the points/currency in other activities

 

No. It does NOT. See OP's post. So that is not best of both worlds, mini games are being excluded and are not part of the store suggestion.

Edited April 13, 2016 by SullenCat

[schenanigans]

I think you are missing the fact that this suggestion was made before the store suggestion, so, no, it was not excluding the store.

By 3 days, yes, this thread is older than the Store thread. That means absolutely nothing at this point. It is a year later. The store doesn't have to be excluded for me to dislike this suggestion and to say that I would rather have something else.

 

The store incorporated different suggestions afterwards, including the suggestion about activity. In the meantime, here is what happened:

 

"Mini-games

This idea is to be worked out at a later date and is not included at this time in this suggestion."

 

Since the mini-games are not, for Thuban's post, included in the suggestion, I decided to bring this one back up.

 

Basically, yes, if the store were implemented as is, right now, then minigames would not be included. But I bolded the fact that there is intent to actually work it out so that it would be implemented. This was also conveniently left out:

 

The amount of shards you can earn from all mini-games is capped at xxxx per week (it should be less than half of what the Dragon Raising sub-total is, since this is Dragon Cave).

 

Which is supporting what I am saying here:

•Store has activity & minigames (so best of both worlds); if I don't want to play minigames, I can make up the points/currency in other activities

•Store has a more even playing ground for reaching the end goal

•I don't have to: continue to play the minigames, get better at the minigames, spend too much time in the minigames, etc. to earn the dragons I'd like

 

I would rather wait for the store suggestion to be finalized than have this. If the store suggestion completely tosses the minigames suggestion, then I would find another way to get the minigames (re)implemented.

 

Ultimately I do not wish to have a grind-fest with minigames to earn dragons. I'd rather see something else implemented to earn both dragons AND play the minigames (for those who so choose), rather than have what this thread is suggesting as a way to earn dragons. I do not like this suggestion for the aforementioned reasons.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Areous

[SullenCat]

"Mini-games

This idea is to be worked out at a later date and is not included at this time in this suggestion."

 

The store suggestion does not include games. This suggestion does, in particular Mana Alchemy. This suggestion does not exclude the store nor any other suggestion.

I'm quite tired of discussing another thread in this one. Done replying to off-topic posts.

Edited April 13, 2016 by SullenCat

[schenanigans]

Whether or not the store includes minigames (which is stated that they intend to go over at some point), that does not discount the fact that I have stated, multiple times, that I do not like this suggestion and WHY I do not like this suggestion. Because I have every right to voice my opinion in the game that I enjoy playing.

 

Ultimately I do not wish to have a grind-fest with minigames to earn dragons. I'd rather see something else implemented to earn both dragons AND play the minigames (for those who so choose), rather than have what this thread is suggesting as a way to earn dragons. I do not like this suggestion for the aforementioned reasons.

[Fiona]

I am in favor of a way to play the mini games; they were fun.

I am in favor of the store idea as it gives a way besides fast internet and fast fingers to get dragons and in the current incarnation gives a way to earn prize dragons and old holidays.

I am in favor of a level playing field. I'm not totally opposed to those with lots of time to play having a way to capitalize on that a little bit. It's not very different from those with fast internet and fast fingers capitalizing on that to get nice stuff from the cave.

 

I am no longer a fan of raffles and would rather those never made a reappearance. Too few rewards to too few people. Too much disappointment.

 

Other than that? No preferences. This. That. Something of both. Whatever.

[skwerl56767]

I wouldn't mind bringing back old minigames or adding new ones; but, if those prizes are dragons, I don't want the game(s) to be the only way of obtaining those dragons, otherwise I will feel inclined to spend time grinding at the game to get what I want. I have that dilemma with Flight Rising right now, because they have a lot of retired items, and because I want those things before they retire I spend a lot of time being bored and grinding to obtain currency of which to buy those items with. I would rather that Dragon Cave not turning into a grinding-game. So as long as none of the prizes are exclusive to the games, I'm find with having minigames be implemented that reward dedicated players.

[_Sin_]

@Fiona BlueFire:

Very good points, I'm 100% in agreement.

 

@skewerl56767:

It was never my intention to suggest to have games like Mana Alchemy as the only way to earn prizes/HM/etc. As a matter of fact, I posted, few days later, a suggestion to earn the same dragons with activity in DC.

At the time, I was annoyed by the drama created by the raffle and was thinking of alternatives. Not mutually exclusive options.

[schenanigans]

I thoroughly agree with what Fiona BlueFire said, but unfortunately there are a few points that TJ brought up as suggestions that feel super raffle-y to me:

 

What do people think about having there still be an inter-user element?

 

e.g. a game like mana alchemy, where the top N scores every week win a prize?

* Have N winners randomly drawn from the top Y scores (where Y > N).

* X winners from all participants.

 

I have to play enough to get a top score. Possibly grinding. For a chance to win. Even X winners from all participants - not earning anything, I'm just - "whelp, maybe this week I'll get one! Hopefully! Maybe..." I'd rather there be no element of chance.

 

I like the activity suggestion because I'm being rewarded for my continual play. Eventually, if I can be active enough and have a goal to aim for, then I'll get what I want. There is an end in sight, or at least, "Goal 1 achieved, now I can work towards Goal 2!" There is no hoping that you can get the dragon you want this week, this month, this year.

 

Then there's this (my bold):

It depends on what level of interaction is with the system.

If it's a zero-sum system, where someone who invests more time means you get less (e.g. there are 10 eggs, someone who invests 12 hours gets 12 tickets, you put in one hour and get one ticket. There's a 12/13 = 92% chance they get chosen for any individual egg, and a 0.92^8 = 51% chance they get all ten eggs), then farming can be problematic and push out more casual players.

If someone putting in 12x as much time as you is not detrimental to your efforts, then sure, farming is fine; if they want to do so, they aren't harming anyone else.

The thing is, because there's user interaction points elsewhere on the site (e.g. trading, breeding, etc), the whole thing should probably be zero-sum to prevent there from being inflation.

 

That's a raffle. You play to earn tickets, now you get a chance to win. If someone has more time on their hands, and they dedicate that time to DC, they absolutely deserve to have a better chance or deserve to earn their prize before me. But without a cap, then so many more casual players are going to just be squashed out, with such a tiny chance of winning that a lot of people may feel frustrated. And it's a grind for a chance at the prize, not a grind with a guarantee. I mean, sure, eventually I may most likely will win a prize. But why is that by chance? Now someone who put in just as much time, or even less time, are being chosen... Why are they better, or why do they deserve it over me?

 

I'm also just really opposed to the idea of having to play minigames to earn something. The charm of minigames, for me, has been that they have been event related. I play them, I enjoy them, but I am not forced to continue playing, there isn't a grind, so they stayed fresh and fun. I play DC to collect, raise, breed, and trade dragons, not play minigames.

 

I am not opposed to minigames being a supplemental part of DC or earning exclusive dragons on DC. Say we have an activity system where you can earn points based on activity of DC, but have the minigames as a little bonus for people who don't log on daily. They can earn their points another way, a fun way, and even if they don't play to the cap then it's not a hindrance, because they aren't competing against people who have more time. But it still allows others to play when they want. That's awesome.

[cyradis4]

"Mini-games

This idea is to be worked out at a later date and is not included at this time in this suggestion."

 

The store suggestion does not include games. This suggestion does, in particular Mana Alchemy. This suggestion does not exclude the store nor any other suggestion.

I'm quite tired of discussing another thread in this one. Done replying to off-topic posts.

Seriously guys?

 

You are debating whether the Store includes mini-games?

 

I'd say the wording is pretty clear, but let me clarify since I was the one who wrote it: Mini-games can be added to the store at any time.... just as soon as someone works out their specifics. Mini-games do not make / break the store idea, and there are so many things going on in that thread that a limit had to be chosen before things bogged down or imploded or exploded.

 

Having said that, I'd love to add mini-games to a store type idea, provided that the game limits were setup to limit the amount of grinding you can do.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[NotBambi]

Having said that, I'd love to add mini-games to a store type idea, provided that the game limits were setup to limit the amount of grinding you can do.

I would say that,if the goal is to limit the amount of grinding, there is an easy solution, considering that more time we spend in DC, more the site benefits (ads etc.):

- calculate the average time needed to play a game

- calculate the average time needed for the activity that is now being considered

Should be very easy to find the equivalency.

[Pokemonfan13]

The easy way to limit grinding is to limit it to one round of the game each day. All unplayed rounds are saved up, so if you can only get on once a week you can play the game seven times when you do get on.

[NotBambi]

The easy way to limit grinding is to limit it to one round of the game each day.  All unplayed rounds are saved up, so if you can only get on once a week you can play the game seven times when you do get on.

Let's assume people play seven times a week, what would they earn with that and how?

I think could be:

- Play whenever you want

- Only 7 games (= 7 tickets) a week can count (cap)

- With n tickets you can get 1 Prize/Special/Limited/Holiday/HM (whatever was available before in the raffle) dragon.

 

Edit: all this independently of any other suggestion/way to earn.

Edited April 14, 2016 by NotBambi

[schenanigans]

Let's assume people play seven times a week, what would they earn with that and how?

I think could be:

- Play whenever you want

- Only 7 games (= 7 tickets) a week can count (cap)

- With n tickets you can get 1 Prize/Special/Limited/Holiday/HM (whatever was available before in the raffle) dragon.

 

Edit: all this independently of any other suggestion/way to earn.

Something simple like this I honestly wouldn't have an issue with. Playing the game (once) daily doesn't detract from the point of DC, I don't have to continually grind the game in a session to feel like I've gotten somewhere, there wouldn't be a chance factor, there IS an end in sight. Available for more casual players. I would be fine with this.

 

Other games just can't find the happy medium so they have pushed me (and also others) away :c

 

For the record, I'm generally a person that has way extra time on their hands sometimes - so if anything, I'd benefit from it being "grind out as much as you can!" But I enjoy that a lot of the time I spend on DC and the forums are by choice.

[Thuban]

If I am understanding the first post right, it wants to introduce a game that can be played as a way to earn dragons. The following comment is based on that interpretation:

 

 

My support for something like that would very highly depend on the type of game that is made. A game like mana alchemy? No thanks. An interactive game that uses our dragons to do stupid things like shoot targets with their fireballs, to catch flying bugs.. or fish... objective games.. sure. I'd be willing to consider it. I like the silly little carnival type games. I do not like the idea of using this as a way to bring back event games.

 

 

I'd want to see limits on the game/games in the sake of fairness... but then I feel like "if thats all someone wants to do, all day, every day, then why shouldnt they be able to?". I'm torn.

 

 

I dont like this idea as a standalone thing, but if this were the only option, I could be ok with it. Not excited.. but ok.

 

____________________________________________________

(Hey guys, while i appreciate your enthusiam/apathy (whatever applies) regarding the store thread, could you guys maybe stop debating issues regarding it in any thread other than that one? I dont frequent posts other than mine, and a select few I have interest in, so if there are issues, I dont see them. That thread is not including games right now, because those are a very low priority when it comes to getting everything worked out, and its not a topic I want to tackle at this time. Store issues really need to be worked out in the store thread.. not other suggestions, please.)

[Hawkster]

To implement mini-games for anyone that wants too, to kill time while waiting for something else to do in DC is fine, especially if it is past mini-games that have already been in DC. Some people really liked and got into some of those. I personally do not understand why on full time basis, where as I did understand prior times mini-games were around as it was only during special events where you could not play DC like normal (ie cave was full of nothing but new Holiday, AP was usually filled with Holidays). But I see no problem at all to bring them back if players want.

 

However, as per OP, to bring them back solely as a way to win prizes/limited dragons I have big problem with. Especially IF this is the only way going forward to win prize dragons. It should not be a requirement to play a different game in order to get something in DC. So if someone wants to play mini-games sure fine but do not actually reward them for doing such with special highly valuable dragons. That is dictating that all DC players must now play some other game in addition too.

 

The ONLY way I could support this suggestion is if it were to reward them by giving them things that any and all players can already get with little bit of time and effort. In other words uncommons and/or common dragons.

[_Sin_]

Let's assume people play seven times a week, what would they earn with that and how?

I think could be:

- Play whenever you want

- Only 7 games (= 7 tickets) a week can count (cap)

- With n tickets you can get 1 Prize/Special/Limited/Holiday/HM (whatever was available before in the raffle) dragon.

 

Edit: all this independently of any other suggestion/way to earn.

How many n tickets would be needed? I'll update the OP this weekend.

 

Found some time to update the original post.

Edited April 14, 2016 by _Sin_

[olympe]

I'd say something between 183 and 365. 365 would be one year's worth of tickets, while 183 is roughly half that.