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_Sin_

ANSWERED:Distributing New Prizes/Special/Limited Dragons

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This thread is being closed because raffles have been re-introduced in the cave. After we see how the new system is, if someone would like to suggest this or something similar, they may start a new thread.

 

As the Topic Title and Description say, this suggestion is about earning New Prizes/Special/Limited Dragons while playing in-cave games, particularly Mana Alchemy.

 

Which dragons should be possible to earn?

- Everything that was or could be won in a raffle: CB Prizes, Honorable Mention.

 

Would this be the only way to earn those dragons?

- No, this suggestion is about earning while playing. Other mechanisms are being discussed somewhere else.

 

How would that work?

- Play whenever you want

- Only 7 games (= 7 tickets) a week can count (cap)

- With n tickets you can get 1 Prize/Special/Limited/Holiday/HM (whatever was available before in the raffle) dragon.

 

Edit: all this independently of any other suggestion/way to earn.

How many tickets would be needed to win?

I'd say something between 183 and 365. 365 would be one year's worth of tickets, while 183 is roughly half that.

* I modified the quoted posts by using Bold and green color.

 

 

Wrapping up, incorporating the latest suggestions. Thanks to everybody that provided them.

 

- Alchemy (like the traditional one) should allow playing at three difficult levels. Medium level earns twice the score (Gold created) of Easy, Hard earns twice the score of Medium.

 

- Several games, not just Alchemy, should be available.

 

- Each game should have its own way to calculate the score (Gold created) but there's an equivalence dictated by time and skills needed.

 

- If you play more than once, only your top scores for the day count as your "one a day play"

OR

- Staggered points: 10 points per game per day - but only if you reach maximal score (if there is a cap). If you don't, you only get 1 point per 10% of the maximum score that you surpassed.

OR

- You can play up to fifteen (or ten? Twenty? Somewhere around there) levels each day, either in one game or spread across different ones. The highest score achieved goes forward to the total count; perhaps for each % of the total score you achieve, you gain one silver piece, and ten (or a hundred, or fifty) silver pieces make one gold piece. (or perhaps ten silvers to a gold and ten bronzes to a silver, with 1 bronze coin per %...) You use these gold and silver pieces to buy your dragons.

OR?

 

- Gold created determines Ranking: i.e. Concoctionist, Thaumaturge, Transmuter (is anybody else thinking of WOW?)

 

- Once reached specific Ranking, the alchemist can use their magic power to Invoke (just an example; there was a full discussion on how to call that) a special egg, chosen at the moment or previously (as a goal) between all the dragons that were once available for the raffle winners.

 

- The effort to Invoke depletes the alchemist's magic power and/or Gold reserves , completely or partially, depending on how much Gold was earned and spent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

_______________________________________________________________________________

 

Old posts

 

 

This suggestion started in the "No new Prize breeds " thread.

 

Create an in-cave game where people have to collect x amount of mana or something, then they get the pretty. Something that will keep the pretty very very rare, but something that if you put enough effort in, anyone can get

ACTUALLY! IMO, this would a BRILLIANT way to bring back Mana Alchemy, which I know that some people are really pulling for.

 

Opinions on having new Prizes and Specials/Rares in general distributed using this type of mechanism? Here I'm not suggesting removing other mechanisms, just adding this.

 

Someone just suggested the following and I fully agree:

This is to release a rare into the Cave that can be gotten through hard work and dedication, but does not require a fast internet nor fast reflexes.

 

And if you want to know more about the original Alchemy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemy_%28ga...fficulty_levels

 

 

What do people think about having there still be an inter-user element?

 

e.g. a game like mana alchemy, where the top N scores every week win a prize?

 

There are also a lot of levers there to reduce the level of dedication required:

 

* Number of prizes

* Exclusion of repeat winners

* Have N winners randomly drawn from the top Y scores (where Y > N).

* X winners from all participants.

 

I would think the prizes would not be trade-able.

 

And there's a lot of ways repeat exclusion could be done. Could just be up to X of a given prize per scroll (e.g. you can only ever win 2 CB 2010 prize dragons ever). There could be a timeout. A lot of that depends on what actually happens, though; if there's no problem with repeat winners, then...?

 

I think it's mostly "without having to compete against a random dice roll" that was the issue. The raffle isn't really "competing with other users" in any way.

 

My thinking is that getting rare/exclusive/whatever dragons through any sort of minigame should be hard. One way to do that is to actually make whatever game it is hard. But that makes things really involved, and probably time-consuming. Using a high score system artificially inflates the overall difficulty, such that the minigame can be less difficult to complete.

 

That's probably this one. But I don't see where the issue is.

 

Even with a "high score winners" system, on a game like mana alchemy, you can take your time. You don't need to have broadband internet, reflexes, or a responsive computer to play.

 

I don't think the idea of competition is what people are averse to, given the response in this thread. 

 

(Which, your argument is a bit of a meta one which invalidates itself. You're claiming that, given the premise of the thread, people shouldn't like the idea of competing. But that doesn't matter; if they like it, they like it. Comment based on your own opinions of whether or not it has merit)

 

It depends on what level of interaction is with the system.

If it's a zero-sum system, where someone who invests more time means you get less (e.g. there are 10 eggs, someone who invests 12 hours gets 12 tickets, you put in one hour and get one ticket. There's a 12/13 = 92% chance they get chosen for any individual egg, and a 0.92^8 = 51% chance they get all ten eggs), then farming can be problematic and push out more casual players.

If someone putting in 12x as much time as you is not detrimental to your efforts, then sure, farming is fine; if they want to do so, they aren't harming anyone else.

The thing is, because there's user interaction points elsewhere on the site (e.g. trading, breeding, etc), the whole thing should probably be zero-sum to prevent there from being inflation.

 

The point being, the person with 12 tickets is certainly much better off than the person with 1.

 

Considering what I've been reading on the other threads, at this point, for the "high score winners" system on a game like mana alchemy referenced by TJ, I would prefer (knowing that I'm risking to be pelted with cabbage) that the prizes would be the same that could be won in the existing raffle, HM included.
Edited by SockPuppet Strangler

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I'd be all for it AS LONG AS it required a lot of work to do. Getting rares from games shouldn't be easier than getting them from the cave. For that reason I'm not sure mana alchemy would quite cut it... even if you required an obscene amount of mana, it'd be more "agonizingly long time investment" than a real challenge, at least in my opinion. Although I guess "agonizingly long time investments" are a challenge in their own way. xd.png

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I'd be all for it AS LONG AS it required a lot of work to do. Getting rares from games shouldn't be easier than getting them from the cave. For that reason I'm not sure mana alchemy would quite cut it... even if you required an obscene amount of mana, it'd be more "agonizingly long time investment" than a real challenge, at least in my opinion. Although I guess "agonizingly long time investments" are a challenge in their own way. xd.png

Agreed, should require a lot of work. What type of game would you suggest?

 

Edit: maybe something that at a certain very high skill level would take less time but would still be achievable at a lower level with a lot of time?

Edited by _Sin_

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Games will always favor certain kinds of players, making it a whole lot more unfair than a simple raffle.

Thus, I do not support it.

 

Also, mana alchemy is basically the far to easy mode of the old popcap game. you had 12 symbols, while the original had something like 48 in its hardest stages.

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Is this all year long? Is it replacing raffles? Are there certain levels you can hit for each prize or once you hit a certain level you get a random prize? Can you get more than one prize?

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This is an interesting suggestion.

 

It's a bit rough at the moment, but I think, given a sufficient level of difficulty and/or time investment, and with many more details carefully considered, it could work. It would have to be done very delicately, though.

 

I don't usually go for "Prizes for everyone!" suggestions, but this is a proposal to actually earn a prize, which is why I think it's worth considering.

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Is this all year long? Is it replacing raffles? Are there certain levels you can hit for each prize or once you hit a certain level you get a random prize? Can you get more than one prize?

Well, where I was coming at this from was:

 

1. People like new dragons, and new rare dragons

 

2. Catching CB Metals now is dependent on your internet / reflexes / ability to find someone to trade with who wants something you *can* get

 

3. Adding a rare or two similar to metals, but that is acquired some other way than by hunting, would give those on poor internet a way to work toward something nice, that can give them the trade ammo to let them trade for the metals they can't catch.

 

4. This would have nothing to do with Raffles, Prize Dragons, or any of the usual mess in January.

 

 

So for me, this would be equivalent to CB Golds, just gotten in a different manner.

 

Cheers!

C4.

 

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I kind of think this is a neat idea.

 

As it seems that there are concerns about the difficulty of mana Alchemy for this... t wouldn't NEED to be Mana Alchemy, ti COULD be something else. I just suggested it because a lot of folsk wanted to keep it.

 

ALSO, I was sort of assuming that you WOULD need to collect a very large amount of Mana before it would earn you a dragon.

( As someone above me posted... a great deal of time invested)

 

THAT being said... other ideas for possible game for this might be good.

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This is an interesting suggestion.

 

It's a bit rough at the moment, but I think, given a sufficient level of difficulty and/or time investment, and with many more details carefully considered, it could work. It would have to be done very delicately, though.

 

I don't usually go for "Prizes for everyone!" suggestions, but this is a proposal to actually earn a prize, which is why I think it's worth considering.

(even relasing them in cave would make you earn them anyway...) xd.png

 

These would be my answers:

Is this all year long?

Yes

Is it replacing raffles?

No, so even those who don't like the game could get the dragons and wouldn't favor only certain kinds of players.

Are there certain levels you can hit for each prize or once you hit a certain level you get a random prize?

This is interesting. I would say that the more you play the more you get, so certain levels for each prize.

Can you get more than one prize?

Yes, but maybe with some kind of time limitations (2 per year max?)

 

I would like a rpg game. I would love to be able to create an alter-ego on DC, your adventurer who is supposed to live in this magic world and hunting dragons eggs. You could customize sex, hair, eyes and skin color. (I would love an elf race to be implemented in DC's background, too).

You have your medieval house (full of scrolls, maps, eggs and whatever) with thatched roof, stone and wood walls. Every day you go out to explore the world, you can choose to go to Alpine, Desert, Coast, Jungle, Forest or Volcano areas. Along your path you will collect mana crystals, see dragons (this could work with the encyclopedia, too!) and learn something more about the DC's background. You will also find metals and materials to upgrade your equipment. Your equipment is:

 

- A bag to put all the stuff you find

- A map

- A sword to defend yourself (if you're a warrior)

- An armour (if you're a warrior)

- A vest (if you're a mage)

- A magic stick (if you're a mage)

 

You could also encounter wild dragons, wolves or other neutral/evil creatures and if you don't have the proper level to combat you're forced to run at home and start by 0! The higher is your level and more powerful creatures you can handle.

To raise your level you need the mana crystals if you're a mage and the metallic stuffs if you're a warrior. Both increase your EXPERIENCE points.

When you reach 500 experience points you could require a bronze shimmer or tinsel.

1200 for a silver one and 2700 for a gold one.

You could require 2 Dragons per year.

 

Maybe (I'm not sure at this) Those who play this game AND require a dragon with their points cannot win a prize dragon during holiday christmas raffle.

Edited by Naruhina_94

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Is this all year long? Is it replacing raffles? Are there certain levels you can hit for each prize or once you hit a certain level you get a random prize? Can you get more than one prize?

I intentionally waited until C4 posted :-) I would like this in place all year long and not replacing raffles: I like raffles. I like the idea of the random prize more than I like the idea of hitting a certain level for a specific price and I like the idea of more than one prize (if you keep playing) but that's just "guts". As LibbyLish said, the idea is rough, still in development, I hope others will have tons of improvement suggestions.

Edited by _Sin_

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Same. I'd be fine with using Mana Alchemy just because it already exists and people seem to like it. If the amount of mana needed to get something is very high the fact that the game is very easy shouldn't be an issue.

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Also, mana alchemy is basically the far to easy mode of the old popcap game. you had 12 symbols, while the original had something like 48 in its hardest stages.

Correct me if I'm wrong but.. the original alchemy had many difficulty levels. From 1 to 5 was Easy. From 6 to 10 was average but you would get twice the score. From 11 was hard but you would get 4 times the score. It is true that the players that would play at the highest level would reach the needed amount of mana earlier but the players at the lowest level could still reach the amount of mana needed, they will just take more time. And, if there's a limit, i.e. 2 prizes per year as suggested, the outcome wouldn't be so different.

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I would like a rpg game. I would love to be able to create an alter-ego on DC, your adventurer who is supposed to live in this magic world and hunting dragons eggs. You could customize sex, hair, eyes and skin color. (I would love an elf race to be implemented in DC's background, too).

You have your medieval house (full of scrolls, maps, eggs and whatever) with thatched roof, stone and wood walls. Every day you go out to explore the world, you can choose to go to Alpine, Desert, Coast, Jungle, Forest or Volcano areas. Along your path you will collect mana crystals, see dragons (this could work with the encyclopedia, too!) and learn something more about the DC's background. You will also find metals and materials to upgrade your equipment. Your equipment is:

 

- A bag to put all the stuff you find

- A map

- A sword to defend yourself (if you're a warrior)

- An armour (if you're a warrior)

- A vest (if you're a mage)

- A magic stick (if you're a mage)

 

You could also encounter wild dragons, wolves or other neutral/evil creatures and if you don't have the proper level to combat you're forced to run at home and start by 0! The higher is your level and more powerful creatures you can handle.

To raise your level you need the mana crystals if you're a mage and the metallic stuffs if you're a warrior. Both increase your EXPERIENCE points.

When you reach 500 experience points you could require a bronze shimmer or tinsel.

1200 for a silver one and 2700 for a gold one.

You could require 2 Dragons per year.

 

Please lord, no. DC is at heart a fairly simple game. Not everyone has the time to go through hoops to do this stuff. And there are a lot of games out there where you can do things like this til your fingers fall off. I do not want that here.

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Please lord, no. DC is at heart a fairly simple game. Not everyone has the time to go through hoops to do this stuff. And there are a lot of games out there where you can do things like this til your fingers fall off. I do not want that here.

THIS - so very this. The joy of DC is the simplicity of it.

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Same. I'd be fine with using Mana Alchemy just because it already exists and people seem to like it. If the amount of mana needed to get something is very high the fact that the game is very easy shouldn't be an issue.

Would be acceptable to have different levels of difficulty?

 

 

 

Edit:

I liked C4's suggestion for a a particular reason. Since I started lurking in the forum I read people not really happy with the fact that they weren't able to catch the eggs they would want: slow internet, slow reflexes, etc. This would give more of a chance to those players.

Edited by _Sin_

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This game would be optional... and would fit the Dc's background. Sigh, let's go and play mana alchemy if you're so scared of funny (and EASY) rpg games.

I personally find the MA a little boring, but if users feel more comfortable with it I will accept it.

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This game would be optional... and would fit the Dc's background. Sigh, let's go and play mana alchemy if you're so scared of funny (and EASY) rpg games.

I personally find the MA a little boring, but if users feel more comfortable with it I will accept it.

Couldn't both games be earning mechanisms, one not excluding the other?

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Would be acceptable to have different levels of difficulty?

You'd need different levels, or people will start to die of boredom. Better to have 3 levels, I'd say:

Easy: similar to what mana-alchamy was

Medium: has more tiles

Hard: has lots more tiles

 

The harder one would net you more mana than the medium, which would net more than the easy. And it wouldn't have to be limited to just alchemy, you could over time add other mini-games and such.

 

Perhaps also add a collection bonus. Every time you collect 100 of the same breed of dragon, you get (x) mana.

 

That way, there's an in-game reason to collect lots of dragons, but for those who'd rather keep small scrolls, you can still get to the same point but with another method.

 

There are many other bonuses you could add, all that feed into the same "mana pool".

 

 

ETA:

The one thing I do not want to see is an RPG type game. Those take a LOT of effort to code, they need a ton of artwork, and they need to have new levels / new stuff added all the time or those playing them tend to start to complain. So.... Would rather not see anything like that.

Unless you got a bonus for completing those type of Halloween stories we already get.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Edited by cyradis4

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Couldn't both games be earning mechanisms, one not excluding the other?

What do you mean? Which games?

If you're talking about my suggest I meant that even if you play a mage you would still earn experience points even if you collect warrior's stuffs.

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(even relasing them in cave would make you earn them anyway...)  xd.png

"Earning" is different than "have fast enough internet and enough dedicated hunting time that I can catch them", Naruhina. That's why I like this better - in-cave releases favor those who already are good at catching things like CB golds and silvers and who could thus trade for Prize offspring anyway.

 

What we're talking about here is a whole new mechanic to access Prizes and still treats them as actual Prizes, not another breed that is catchable in the Biomes. It doesn't need to be overly complicated, either - it could simply be an issue of gathering enough mana over time (though there probably needs to be a bit more to it than that).

Edited by LibbyLishly

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What do you mean? Which games?

If you're talking about my suggest I meant that even if you play a mage you would still earn experience points even if you collect warrior's stuffs.

I only meant that I don't see any reason why we couldn't suggest both the RPG and the Mana Alchemy as mana-earning games. Or at least not shutting down any option until there is more input.

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This game would be optional... and would fit the Dc's background. Sigh, let's go and play mana alchemy if you're so scared of funny (and EASY) rpg games.

I personally find the MA a little boring, but if users feel more comfortable with it I will accept it.

I don't think anyone's saying they're scared of RPG games or whatever. It's just that part of the appeal of DC is that it's a simple game without all that fancy stuff like quests etc. to get things.

 

Everyone is able to get every sprite, barring frills and bright pinks (okay, and the leetle stack of pancakes). They might not be CB or perfectly lineaged, but everyone can get the sprites. No need to jump through hoops (yes, even prizes are eventually available to everyone, it's not exactly difficult to get one these days) or play any games to get the nice stuff.

 

That's why I like DC. Everyone has an equal chance at everything. No, maybe not CB or perfectly lineaged, but that's a style of play not everyone has, anyway (otherwise there'd be 0 messies in the AP, ever...).

 

Having to play a game to get raffle entries is already toeing the line for me, but it's a holiday event so I don't mind the one yearly exception.

 

But for the rest of the year, I do not support distribution of prize dragons/special dragons through a game.

 

Honestly I don't have a problem with CB prizes not being available to everyone to begin with, so I'll admit I'm hard to convince anyway...

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I like this idea! I like the idea of a rare that is "earned". As long as the task is somewhat difficult... but I do like the "agonizingly long time investment" sort of difficulty, so that it really is achievable by anyone who is willing to put in the time... so you wouldn't actually have to be skilled at anything. Which is a good case for something like the simple RPG, because just playing mana alchemy over and over and over a zillion times will get boring... if it's agonizingly long time commitment that is required, at least the time spent should be somewhat interesting biggrin.gif

 

My question: Would this dragon itself be tradeable, or would it be like GONs where it must stay on the scroll it is earned? I'd probably lean towards the latter myself.

Edited by PolarVortex

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"Earning" is different than "have fast enough internet and enough dedicated hunting time that I can catch them", Naruhina. That's why I like this better - in-cave releases favor those who already are good at catching things like CB golds and silvers and who could thus trade for Prize offspring anyway.

 

What we're talking about here is a whole new mechanic to access Prizes and still treats them as actual Prizes, not another breed that is catchable in the Biomes. It doesn't need to be overly complicated, either - it could simply be an issue of gathering enough mana over time (though there probably needs to be a bit more to it than that).

I think that putting time and efforts o wait it it could be considered as earning them, too. I hadn't a fast connection when I've catch my first CB gold. It was a matter of patience and efforts and I've taken my reward.

However I completely understand your point of view, this would indeed treat them as prizes "out of the cave" like they already are, so I totally support this suggestion! I would love a mini game inside DC for this kind of things. Don't get me wrong, MA could still be boring, but I would play it thousands of times if it makes me earn a Prize xd.png

 

EDIT:

 

Both games _Sin_? Yes, of course I would like it, but it seems that people don't want to add "difficult" extra mini games and I don't want to insist about something so optional.

I don't think anyone's saying they're scared of RPG games or whatever. It's just that part of the appeal of DC is that it's a simple game without all that fancy stuff like quests etc. to get things.

I don't want to fight about which mini game is easy or not. I meant to describe something very basilar, so seeing it immediately shot down because of "it's too fancy rpg stuff with a higher level of difficult" made me think that DC is not the place (yet) to propose this kind of minigames. Yes, I actually think that all these new mechanics actually "scare" people a bit, even if the news proposed are really easy to play.

I could actually agree more with what cyradis said:

ETA:

The one thing I do not want to see is an RPG type game. Those take a LOT of effort to code, they need a ton of artwork, and they need to have new levels / new stuff added all the time or those playing them tend to start to complain. So.... Would rather not see anything like that.

Unless you got a bonus for completing those type of Halloween stories we already get.

Code and art works could be heavy to do. That's a good crit smile.gif I wouldn't want staff to focus only on them. Let's stay simple, it seems to bother less people xd.png

Edited by Naruhina_94

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"Earning" is different than "have fast enough internet and enough dedicated hunting time that I can catch them", Naruhina. That's why I like this better - in-cave releases favor those who already are good at catching things like CB golds and silvers and who could thus trade for Prize offspring anyway.

 

What we're talking about here is a whole new mechanic to access Prizes and still treats them as actual Prizes, not another breed that is catchable in the Biomes. It doesn't need to be overly complicated, either - it could simply be an issue of gathering enough mana over time (though there probably needs to be a bit more to it than that).

Thank you. You expressed what I meant quite better than I could do :-)

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