Hermaphrodites

[Red2111]

So maybe let's list ACHIEVABLE goals one can have on DC?

 

Most basic that ever came to my mind:

they're collectiove and neat looking

 

1. 1 dragon per breed - no for newer players, old Pinks and Frills discontinued (other than that, too quick to achieve)

 

2. 3 per breed=Each stage (adult, S2, S1) - no for newer players, old Pinks and Frills discontinued (other than that too quick to achieve)

 

3. 5 per breed=For the sake of sprites: 2 adults(MF if dipomorphism), 2 S2s(MF if dipomorphism), S1 - no, GoNs limited to 3

IMPOSSIBLE

 

4. family of 5 per breed - all dragons related to the adult couple, is about sprites and lineages - no, GoNs not breeding true & limited to 3, NDs not breeding true(I substituted for breedign other coupels of mine), Zombies(same as NDs), Holidays(Chrismas, Valentines) being one-gender only each (exept Hollies) and not able to breed true

IMPOSSIBLE

 

(Mine is 4. + strict monogamy - challenging enough, but if only was POSSIBLE:/)

 

2 goals mostly possible if we ignore discontinued breeds... But actually any of the most basic and obvious goals to think of are UNACHIEVABLE!

 

goals in general are a personal thing. if you cant reach the goals you set for yourself in this game then you only have yourself to blame for the lack of completion. dont get angry or disrespectful to the artsist because how they created their dragons isnt kosher with how you choose to play the game.

 

re-GoN's specifically, you're barking up the wrong tree imo; afterall it wasn't to long ago that

1. summoning was harder than catching a CB gold

2. you could only have 2 and they were genderless

3. they couldn't breed at all.

 

 

 

And why they are even designed to be a certain gender? Just because holidays after 2007 are all one gender breeds.... I

'm wondering if I even could create a normal Christmas or Valentine and have it accepted, esp. by the anit-change comminity... People simply create X-only dragons for those two holiday types because they were so in the game... isn't it so?

Or that Solistices were introduced(or ever thought of) as female-only if there were no other breed that is either female-only or male-only...

 

according to the artist Solstices would be female only regardless.

 

if you were to introduce an influenceable Christmas or Valentines dragon, majority of the community would be fine with it imo because they'd influence the two CB's male and female and then wait to freeze the next year.

 

if you actually read the people against your idea, its coming from a "dont change existing sprites" stance and your responses towards the Artist of the Solstice dragon.

 

 

 

I'm not anti-change, not at all. But not all changes are good or going to work. This change doesn't make sense IMO. These dragons were made a certain way and the way I see it you only want them changed because of the way you collect, not because it fits the breeds.

 

^ this

[Aniusia483]

I'm abandonign the thread, I've wasted way too much of my time becuase of DC, and the thread was brought to nowhere by everyone who comments on it. No use. I don't care anymore.

 

 

PS. I'm wondering if if I decided my dragon concept to be monogamous only (forced monogamy - by the system) I would have them introduced this way... I'm 100% sure my will would be ignored.

 

Bye

[pinkgothic]

goals in general are a personal thing.  if you cant reach the goals you set for yourself in this game then you only have yourself to blame for the lack of completion.  dont get angry or disrespectful to the artsist because how they created their dragons isnt kosher with how you choose to play the game.

While I'd agree with your conclusion - not to get angry at spriters for being unable to complete one's scroll-goals - I think most of the suggestions that end up discussed in this section ultimately come to pass because someone has scroll goals they'd like to complete. So I don't think that makes them any less legitimate.

 

Personally, I don't mind this suggestion. I wouldn't put it to use, and I think a certain uniqueness of the Valentine and winter holiday season event dragons would get lost in a change like this, but I can't really think of a reason not to do it, short of Spriter request (so, neither Solstice nor Radiant Angels, so far, if I've read it correctly).

 

@Aniusia483: I don't know if you're still reading this, but I'm fairly sure your concept would, in fact, be honoured. We've got several species with interesting breed quirks. I'd say go for it, if you want to make a dragon like that.

 

[ Edit: Whoop. Glad I didn't see your anti-poly sentiments before, would have reacted differently then. Just for completion's sake: You may not want to be that nasty. There are polyamourous people in this community. I'm one of them. No biggie in this case, but you could seriously hurt someone with the wording you chose. ]

Edited December 31, 2014 by pinkgothic

[Fuzzbucket]

PS. I'm wondering if if I decided my dragon concept to be monogamous only (forced monogamy - by the system) I would have them introduced this way... I'm 100% sure my will would be ignored.

 

Bye

If that were part of your concept, that would be part of the final "product". Just as Odeen wanted solstices to be female.

[LibbyLishly]

If that were part of your concept, that would be part of the final "product". Just as Odeen wanted solstices to be female.

...and then someone would make a suggestion that allowed the dragons to have more than one mate, and then you'd come in as the artist and shoot it down, and then there would be drama in the thread, is basically how it would go.

[Fuzzbucket]

...and then someone would make a suggestion that allowed the dragons to have more than one mate, and then you'd come in as the artist and shoot it down, and then there would be drama in the thread, is basically how it would go.

Which is what happens with EVERY new dragon. Someone always hates something and then...

 

But I have to say the monogamy thing would work fine with alternating holidays, so.... I'm afraid my lot are simply promiscuous. But it broadens the gene base.

[Red2111]

@ pinkgothic - valid point. and generally if its a problem that a lot of us have it gets support, but when it targets a very few niche of people and the artists are against it, it doesnt get support and the suggester doesn't get so vinegary in their responses.

 

which is why i said what i did in the manner i did.

 

 

 

Which is what happens with EVERY new dragon. Someone always hates something and then...

 

But I have to say the monogamy thing would work fine with alternating holidays, so.... I'm afraid my lot are simply promiscuous. But it broadens the gene base.

^ this

 

monogamy actually goes against nature in most animals. (of course if my hubby wasn't monogamous there'd be a well fed alligator here in the south)

 

if it was a breed mechanic, or quirk (ie: only bred with the one mate) it would be interesting to see and the only things i'd hope for is unlimited CB's (so i could make different lineages) and advanced notice so i could pick the mate carefully and that the monogamy wouldn't be forced onto the mate.

 

 

if its "can only breed with members of its own species" sort of thing ... we already have that in two heads, pygmys and drakes ... personally i'd love to see more holidays (and even prize dragons) included in those sub groups *nods*

 

 

 

 

 

[Obscure_Trash]

Since we can only get two CBs, I am not for this. Also, I like not having to worry about influencing my Xmas or VDay dragons. More relaxing than Halloween in that respect. xP

 

Also, I would support allowing these dragons to be not monogendered over having them be hemaphrodites, which I just don't think fits on DC - not the way we've set ourselves up for all these years now.

 

This is an interesting idea:

 

I know that one of your scroll goals is to have male and female of each dragon, but I think that holiday dragons (Valentine and Christmas) have the unique BREEDABLE gender as specific trait and changing it now would create a lot of problems with lineages, and general confusion. I would suggest to introduce the "missing" male/female of each holiday dragon as unbreedable, so they won't interfere into the gameplay.

For example if you want male Ribbon Dancer you should ask to the spriter and TJ to introduce it in cave. If it's accepted all ribbon dancer eggs become avaliable to be influenced for the gender they're missing (male). So you could influence a Ribbon Dancer egg only as male. It's important to say that it would always gender as female by default if yu don't "force" it with an influence BSA.

 

This would create a sterile male ribbon dancer, that wouldn't be able to breed when it grows up and would stay on your scroll just for aesthetic reasons. The symbol ♂ would be shown, but they wouldn't have the breed action available. I don't know if a new sprite should be required, it's up to the spriter, I suppose.

 

That I would also support over hemaphrodites.

 

OR I may even support allowing bred Xmas and VDay dragons to be both genders.

 

However, I do prefer it as it is. <3

[Moonlightelf]

Uncommon or strange goal? 5 per breed mostly for sprite and gender collecting? MF adults, MF S2 and S1? That was the most obvious goal to me, right after 1 individual per breed and 3 stages per breed.. families of 5 per preed look well.

Well good for you. I myself follow 16/16/5/5/5 goal on CB breedable dragons and 8/8/5/5/5 on hybrids to make PB 6th EG lines. Not to mention the 10/5/5 on unbreedables and holidays, with exception of Halloweens being 10/10/5/5/5. Those are my goals.

 

And all I added to this is strict monogamy of all same-breed pairs... placed on a neat looking scroll that contains no other things messing it up.

Again, good for you. Therefore, you must have been aware of the limitations of certain breeds when adding this?

 

I'm starting to believe this game is ANY GOAL (other than a boring: random dragons in 3 stages per breed  -GoN limit of 3, not 5) UNfriendly...

Now hold your horses lad/lass. Just because you yourself can't fulfill your goals, you believe that nobody can fulfill their own goals? What kind of baseless claim this is? Aren't you aware that there are many more goals than you mentioned here? The only thing the goals are sharing in common is that the players themselves placed them into their scrolls and game.

This does not contribute to the suggestion much. In fact, I'm pretty sure quite a few people adapt to the game to some degree.

 

Who even came up with an idea of Xgender only dragons first of all??? Be it TJ himself maybe, but it's like a random idea taken completely out of the blue... why on Earth this even exists?

The idea of single-genderness is not anything new in any media, and certainly not taken out of the blue. In fact, the idea is older than you think.

Anime examples: Namekians of Dragon Ball serie are all-male in appearance, and reproduce asexually. Also the Kuja tribe from One Piece has to go out of their island to get pregnant, offsprings always ending up as females.

Card game example: In Magic: The Gathering, angels are all-female with one exception of Malach of the Dawn (though he is from alternate universe.)

Comic book example: Amazons in Wonder Woman. Pretty much they are immortal.

Videogame examples: Final Fantasy has plenty of examples... The Legend of Zelda has the Gerudo... Guild Wars... Pokémon has some legendaries with single gender... And some are completely one gender or unknown.

 

I'm pretty sure if Holidays nor any other dragons on DA never worked like that and now someone would make a suggestion to create some type of dragons male/female-only for the first time, the idea would get smashed with anti-support by the players or at least the majority...

Possibly. But this too doesn't contribute to the suggestion at all. We are, in fact, lucky enough to have exception to Holly.

Now if I recall correctly... there used to be restriction of only one Holly per scroll. Try to complete scroll goal with that kind of thing then... therefore, hurray to lifting of limitations.

 

 

And also... Like Sock said... since we can only ever get two CBs of Christmas and Valentine dragons, I'd rather not be worrying about influencing them.

[DragonNighthowler]

they would look cool if pink version was female and blue version was male...

 

You are aware that pink was actually considered a masculine color until very recently due to it being a strong color, and soft blue was a feminine color due to it being a gentle color.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink

 

The transition to pink as a sexually differentiating color for girls occurred gradually, through the selective process of the marketplace, in the 1930s and 40s. In the 1920s, some groups had actually been describing pink as a masculine color, an equivalent of the red that was considered to be for men, but lighter for boys. But stores nonetheless found that people were increasingly choosing to buy pink for girls, and blue for boys, until this became an accepted norm in the 1940s.

 

Anyways, it is a ridiculous cultural thing with absolutely no basis in nature.

 

AND I made my dragons capable of love, so they must remain monogamous...

 

So you're essentially saying polygamous animals are uncapable of affection?

 

And I hate polygamy, it disgusts me, even in a pixel game

 

Leaving aside that this is your own, personal opinion (I couldn't care less of what people do with their private lives), I frankly don't see the problem. If you want to make your dragons monogamous, then pair them for life. Why does it need to be with a member of their own specie?

 

I don't like this suggestion. It makes no sense to change the lore just like that, unless it brings a general improvement in the gameplay for everyone, which, in the case of this suggestion, it doesn't.

[olympe]

I'm not anti-change, not at all. But not all changes are good or going to work. This change doesn't make sense IMO. These dragons were made a certain way and the way I see it you only want them changed because of the way you collect, not because it fits the breeds.

Well, the old pinks and even purples were made that way, too. Female-only. Despite that, both the new pinks (with males and females) as well as the male purples work well within DC.

 

If you want to try submitting a two-gender dragon for the holidays, go for it. TJ might tell you that you have to pick a gender to keep with tradition or he may permit it to go as designed. The community may complain, but only if there was no warning in time for them to influence their eggs.

Instead of complaining, just check for every new holiday egg whether it can be influenced or not. If it cannot be influenced, it's going to be a one-gender-only breed. It's as simple as that.

 

I strongly suspect that the reason the Christmas and Valentines dragons are single gender, whereas the Halloweens are both genders, is because the Christmas and Valentines dragons used to be limited, and are still limited as CBs.

I agree that that's a very likely reason. However, like with hollies, there's nothing wrong with getting the other gender in bred dragons. Like with hollies. (Okay, so it's possible to get an HM holly and influence it female. But when hollies came out, they were an all male breed.)

 

. family of 5 per breed - all dragons related to the adult couple, is about sprites and lineages - no, GoNs not breeding true & limited to 3, NDs not breeding true(I substituted for breedign other coupels of mine), Zombies(same as NDs), Holidays(Chrismas, Valentines) being one-gender only each (exept Hollies) and not able to breed true

IMPOSSIBLE

Okay, so this doesn't work for NDs, but definitely for Zombies. Just get one pair, breed it endlessly and keep the offspring as hatchies. Kill and revive the parents on Halloween. (Good luck with that one!) If it works for both of them, kill and revive as many offspring as you need for a full set. Repeat every year until you get what you need. Kill the remaining offspring without reviving. (Or kill, revive and expunge. Your choice.) Edited December 30, 2014 by olympe

[annageckos]

Well, the old pinks and even purples were made that way, too. Female-only. Despite that, both the new pinks (with males and females) as well as the male purples work well within DC.

I know that pinks and purples were only female. I remember when the purples changed. But I'm not really sure what you are saying here. I'm confused as to what I said has to do with your comment.

Edited December 30, 2014 by annageckos

[olympe]

Just trying to counter your argument of "the dragons were made this way, so they should always stay this way". Change happens. Of course, if some artists veto this suggestion for their own dragons, that's another matter. But overall, it's not beyond the possible for a breed to change to have both genders.

[annageckos]

Just trying to counter your argument of "the dragons were made this way, so they should always stay this way".

That's not really what I was saying. Of course dragons and concepts change. I'm not against that. I am against someone wanting to change the way the dragons work/are to fit their play style without concern to the spriter/creators. If it fit the breeds then great. IMO this doesn't.

 

There is also a huge difference between what happened with the pinks/purples and this idea. Males were added to the other dragons. This suggestion is about making the dragons hermaphrodites. And that is what I was commenting on.

Edited December 31, 2014 by annageckos

[LibbyLishly]

Instead of complaining, just check for every new holiday egg whether it can be influenced or not. If it cannot be influenced, it's going to be a one-gender-only breed. It's as simple as that.

Quick point of order: I wasn't saying *I* would complain. I said the community would likely complain. You know it would happen. They're not used to having to check to make sure they have to influence holidays, and a lot of people would be blindsided if there was no warning - and then they could all take their little misgendered hatchlings to the "My hatchling gendered wrong!" thread.

[Rosedamai]

If the artist says no, then it is a final no imho.

[Pixxelation]

As holiday dragon conceptor and spriter, I stand with birdzy and Odie, the other two holiday spriters who have voiced their opinions thus far. No support.

Edited December 31, 2014 by PieMaster

[lightningsky]

I do not support this because I like how each Valentine's and Xmas breed has their own set genders for each year - it's very unique and allows for some creative breeding, instead of just the norm PB lineages you see.

 

As a collector of related frozens to make 'families' I can understand where the one set gender can be frustrating. But I don't believe this is the way to fix that...

[Esmeia]

I'm actually very fond of many of these Holidays being mono-gendered, so I'm not really interested in the idea of changing the breeds we already have like this. Certainly wouldn't object to a future Christmas or Valentine having both males and females like the Halloweens do, but I have to say no for the ones we already have.

 

More importantly, since a few spriters have already voiced a firm and clear "no", I think that should be respected.

[Prince_Xanthius]

While I agree the from a biological point of view it makes no sense, that is traditionally how holiday dragons work on DC. It is not a new thing. I like it as it makes the dragons more special, and it makes it far more relaxing than holloween.

 

My own scroll goal is similar to yours 5 of each (M/F, M/F S2, S1) with monogoamous CB pairs of each breed, but the hatchies are not necessarily all related to the adults (because a few months into the game I decided that was way too much hard work). I understand the pain of Christmas/Valentine dragons not looking so pretty in their little families. Part of me wants to keep the mates in a separate part of my scroll so I can have all the Christmas dragons in an uninterrupted line, but I'd rather sort my dragons with mates next to them so it looks a bit messy. I know that.

 

I am eternally disappointed that GoN only got lifted to 3 and not to 5 because it doesn't suit my goal. Also, I have long decided to have one of each stage (it was going to be an adult male and an S2 female before the number went up) so I will only have 1 adult. I will therefore have to decide whether to mate it to 3 dragons in order to get all avatars, or mate it to just one (which due to my monogomy preferance I'd rather do) and then trade for the others.

 

But I picked my goals fully aware of the limitations of the game. I've recently decided to abandon monogomy in my CB halloweens because with 6 CB (I usually trade away my 7th - 8 I could handle, 6 I can handle, the 7th...grates), I just don't have the time or desire to build proper lines with all them. But all of these are my choices, that I have to make in accordance with both MY GOALS and the SITE RULES. I know that in order to complete my goal I have to sacrifice other things, and in some cases unfortunately I have to change the goal. But I cannot demand that the game changes to accomodate me.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Prince_Xanthius

[Fuzzbucket]

My own scroll goal is similar to yours 5 of each (M/F, M/F S2, S1) with monogamous CB pairs of each breed, but the hatchies are not necessarily all related to the adults (because a few months into the game I decided that was way too much hard work).

And see - I differ here. I like everything to have EVEN number - my main gripe is with the gold trophy egg limit being 7, not 8 !!! Plays havoc with breeding projects; I always have to find someone to trade at Hallowe'en.

[grimace]

Good lord no. Retroactively changing the lore and gender of tons of dragons stretching back six years? Turning reptiles into hermaphrodites (these aren't snails, seriously)? All for the sake of a very specific scroll goal? No support, at all. Anti-support even.

Its worth mentioning there are multiple hermaphroditic reptile species.

[BlindWolf]

Its worth mentioning there are multiple hermaphroditic reptile species.

There are none. If you're referring to parthenogenesis, then those are females that essentially produce clones. They don't have male chromosomes or any of the bits I'm not sure if I can mention here. You might be thinking of sequential hermaphroditism, which only occurs among vertebrates in fish, but which is also not like the suggestion here. Those are only one at a time, never both. I think that's sorta what those Erseliks work like. True hermaphrodism doesn't occur at all in vertebrata outside of a very small number of fish, definitely not in reptiles.

[Syphoneira]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't DC start off with the concept of all creatures as male, (and thought I recalled being told something about breeding being added in later?) with the Pinks brought in as females only, and initially the only females, and later, Purples as a 2nd female-only species, making single-sexed dragons one of DCs earliest traditions?

 

Even though nearly all dragon breeds - Christmas and Valentines excepted, as well as the 'unbreedables' - are now of both genders?

 

Doesn't TJ try to keep DC within certain world-rules by which he defines and orders possibilities within the world he created, despite also working with players to make the site more enjoyable, within the criteria forming this world?

 

Don't the spriters know best how the species they create have evolved to live and how they reproduce?

 

The suggestion of hermaphrodite breeds being sprited for potential inclusion into the Cave has come up before and been received with some interest, but the notion of altering existing breeds over the objections of their creators and many players would not, I should think, have been suggested by anyone having been here for any length of time.

 

I expect that a little more knowledge and experience would bring a better understanding of the ways in which the Cave functions, and I do hope that the OP comes to enjoy the game without requiring the alteration of fundamentals supporting so many aspects of the game.

[Fuzzbucket]

Don't the spriters know best how the species they create have evolved to live and how they reproduce?

This bit is crucial for me. INVENT a hermaphroditic breed - sure; I have supported some in DR, I think, But convert old ones - not unless the spriters suggest it.

The suggestion of hermaphrodite breeds being sprited for potential inclusion into the Cave has come up before and been received with some interest, but the notion of altering existing breeds over the objections of their creators and many players would not, I should think, have been suggested by anyone having been here for any length of time.

 

I expect that a little more knowledge and experience would bring a better understanding of the ways in which the Cave functions, and I do hope that the OP comes to enjoy the game without requiring the alteration of fundamentals supporting so many aspects of the game. 

Yes indeed.