Hermaphrodites

[Aniusia483]

This.

 

AND if I recall, in species like Reindeer, for example, both males and females have antlers.

And why? Are males any worse than females? O_o r my fault big horns/antlers etc. are mostly the male trait rather than female?

I'm sorry if this was a problem, but aren't you simply making mountains out of molehills? Or being sexist for treating 'masculine' as offensive?

 

But reindeers are not female-only. And "Reindeer vary considerably in colour and size. In most populations, both sexes grow antlers annually, but females lack antlers in a few. Antlers are typically larger on males."

And in majority of antler-having creatures, it's the male who has them big.

 

Edited December 30, 2014 by Aniusia483

[Odeen]

Solistices look quite masculine with the hugest antlers of the entire game to be honest^^; I never could get it why they are the FEMALE only breed, not MALE only^^; (well, I paired mine to a Yolebuck because of 'both have antlers' but they actually look riddiculus together) they would look cool if pink version was female and blue version was male... *.*

More than one species of deer grow antlers on both male and female members, and many others do not grow antlers at all - on either male or female members. Just because you consider the possession of antlers to be masculine doesn't mean it is. Moreover, the solstice dragons' crowns are actually horns that only superficially resemble antlers and are never shed. Most horned animals develop horns in both sexes.

 

All that aside, even if none of that were remotely true of nature, I would still have given them antlers and insisted they be female because...they're dragons, and I invented the breed and its characteristics.

[annageckos]

I don't really like this suggestion. If that was how the dragons were made to begin with sure, but to just slap it on now. It makes no sense.

[Aniusia483]

I don't really like this suggestion. If that was how the dragons were made to begin with sure, but to just slap it on now. It makes no sense.

Actually it makes no sense they were EVER brought to existence as X-gender only breeds...

[annageckos]

They are dragons in a made up world. Maybe it makes complete sense.

[cyradis4]

Actually it makes no sense they were EVER brought to existence as X-gender only breeds...

Makes perfect sense! At least, on a planet called Valkemare that has magic and sentient dragons.

 

On planet Earth, with no magic, and no dragons (poor us!), it might not make so much sense.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Aniusia483]

They are dragons in a made up world. Maybe it makes complete sense.

Maybe it makes complete sense to let all players decide on their own if they want their own dragons to breed true and normally? To have both genders of each breed? etc? Or to have A GOAL in a game???

[Aniusia483]

Makes perfect sense! At least, on a planet called Valkemare that has magic and sentient dragons.

 

On planet Earth, with no magic, and no dragons (poor us!), it might not make so much sense.

 

Cheers!

C4.

I would argue that dragons which breed with random mates instead of from love are so sentient...

I treat mine as if they were via pairing them in stroct monogamy, but when I look at the descriptions they are very animalistic and primitive in the way they work...

 

Anyway, this is offtopic.

[annageckos]

Maybe it makes complete sense to let all players decide on their own if they want their own dragons to breed true and normally? To have both genders of each breed? etc? Or to have A GOAL in a game???

This game is very open in letting people play the way they like. But there do have to be some rules and not everyone is always going to get everything the way they want it. You also have to take in account the creators of the dragons and how they made them. If a spriter/creator of a dragons says no, their dragon can't do that X then that should be that.

[birdzgoboom]

Maybe it makes complete sense to let all players decide on their own if they want their own dragons to breed true and normally? To have both genders of each breed? etc? Or to have A GOAL in a game???

Lots of people have goals in the game.

I have goals as well for the game, some of which are totally unattainable now. But such is life.

 

It's a game, it's supposed to be fun. Sometimes things don't work out the way they should (or the way you want them to), and even though that stinks, it's nothing to get sour over.

 

Holidays have always been one gender (other than the Holly, because the Hollies are special<3). That's how they have been and probably always will be, and there is literally no problem with that. You shouldn't have to get "both genders" of a dragon that's only one gender in the first place, anyway.

 

I'm sorry that you can't get exactly what you want out of them in terms of offspring, but there are plenty of amazing checker ideas and suitable mates FOR the holiday dragons that look fantastic in lineages with them.

[Red2111]

Maybe it makes complete sense to let all players decide on their own if they want their own dragons to breed true and normally? To have both genders of each breed? etc? Or to have A GOAL in a game???

it makes more sense to respect the wish of the artist. they designed those dragons to be a certain gender. just because you interpret the design as more masculine or more fenimine doesn't make you correct.

 

imo very few dragons on this site look inherently feminine or masculine; and instead that gender assignment comes less from how they look and more from their personalities and descriptions the artists come up with when they create the dragons.

 

 

and i believe that Holly's are only influence because they can be requested as CB's in the Raffle.

 

 

edit - and tbh after the Holiday event this year and reading the Solstices personality ... i dont see how that dragon can be anything BUT female she had quiet the Southern Mama thing going on there, to include her scolding of the avatar

Edited December 30, 2014 by Red2111

[Aniusia483]

This game is very open in letting people play the way they like. But there do have to be some rules and not everyone is always going to get everything the way they want it. You also have to take in account the creators of the dragons and how they made them. If a spriter/creator of a dragons says no, their dragon can't do that X then that should be that.

So maybe let's list ACHIEVABLE goals one can have on DC?

 

Most basic that ever came to my mind:

they're collectiove and neat looking

 

1. 1 dragon per breed - no for newer players, old Pinks and Frills discontinued (other than that, too quick to achieve)

 

2. 3 per breed=Each stage (adult, S2, S1) - no for newer players, old Pinks and Frills discontinued (other than that too quick to achieve)

 

3. 5 per breed=For the sake of sprites: 2 adults(MF if dipomorphism), 2 S2s(MF if dipomorphism), S1 - no, GoNs limited to 3

IMPOSSIBLE

 

4. family of 5 per breed - all dragons related to the adult couple, is about sprites and lineages - no, GoNs not breeding true & limited to 3, NDs not breeding true(I substituted for breedign other coupels of mine), Zombies(same as NDs), Holidays(Chrismas, Valentines) being one-gender only each (exept Hollies) and not able to breed true

IMPOSSIBLE

 

(Mine is 4. + strict monogamy - challenging enough, but if only was POSSIBLE:/)

 

2 goals mostly possible if we ignore discontinued breeds... But actually any of the most basic and obvious goals to think of are UNACHIEVABLE!

 

 

[Aniusia483]

it makes more sense to respect the wish of the artist. they designed those dragons to be a certain gender. j

And why they are even designed to be a certain gender? Just because holidays after 2007 are all one gender breeds.... I

'm wondering if I even could create a normal Christmas or Valentine and have it accepted, esp. by the anit-change comminity... People simply create X-only dragons for those two holiday types because they were so in the game... isn't it so?

Or that Solistices were introduced(or ever thought of) as female-only if there were no other breed that is either female-only or male-only...

[kitsune93]

Big no to changing existing breeds like this.

If the creators of the dragons don't want them to change, then they shouldn't.

 

[Aniusia483]

Any OTHER contrarguments than "I'm anti-changes" maybe?

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I don't think Valentines / Christmas dragons were made single gender for logic reasons so much as game reasons. Those holidays were limited to 2 each to make it easy for everyone to get one, and having male / female split means people would've had to choose between getting an adult of each gender or being able to freeze one. Even now with limits lifted, people would have to choose between getting one of each gender or having the chance to replace refusals (ex: your male CB Gold refuses your female CB Solstice. If you had a CB male Solstice and a CB female Solstice, you're now plumb out of luck unless you get another male CB Gold, whereas if you had two CB female Solstices, you'd have another shot with the same Gold).

 

Because of that reason--and again because I don't think this makes sense--I'm against it. I really do sympathize with you having certain collection goals. I really do! But sometimes, we have to let those goals go. My goal was to get two CBs of every gender of every breed. I'll never have a CB Holly, though, or be able to get CB hybrids. Instead of letting that crush my spirits, though, I've set new guidelines regarding those breeds (get 2 second gens of each gender of each breed that I can't get as CB) and moved on. In this case, you might want to just pretend your Holiday dragons are wild siblings and breed them with something similar to them in appearance, or another Holiday, and keep the babies for freezie families.

[annageckos]

Any OTHER contrarguments than "I'm anti-changes" maybe?

I'm not anti-change, not at all. But not all changes are good or going to work. This change doesn't make sense IMO. These dragons were made a certain way and the way I see it you only want them changed because of the way you collect, not because it fits the breeds.

[LibbyLishly]

And why they are even designed to be a certain gender? Just because holidays after 2007 are all one gender breeds.... I

'm wondering if I even could create a normal Christmas or Valentine and have it accepted, esp. by the anit-change comminity... People simply create X-only dragons for those two holiday types because they were so in the game... isn't it so?

Or that Solistices were introduced(or ever thought of) as female-only if there were no other breed that is either female-only or male-only...

If you can't handle people opposing your idea, you probably should reconsider making suggestions.

 

If you want to try submitting a two-gender dragon for the holidays, go for it. TJ might tell you that you have to pick a gender to keep with tradition or he may permit it to go as designed. The community may complain, but only if there was no warning in time for them to influence their eggs.

 

If artists want to design one-gender dragons, big whoop. That's one less sprite that you HAVE to collect to meet your scroll goals - try looking at it that way. And if the artists don't support their dragons changing gender, I don't support it, either, whereas I really wouldn't care otherwise. You seem to be angry at the artists for even coming up with single-gender breeds in the first place, but that tradition is pretty squarely entrenched now, which is why it continues (and because most of the community seems to be totally okay with single-gender breeds). If you want it to change, come up with a new holiday dragon concept yourself, get some partners to help sprite and conceptualize, and submit it.

 

Maybe a couple of artists will like the idea of their dragon becoming a hermaphrodite as suggested, and if they do, I'm perfectly content to support the change, but it's the artist's prerogative to make the call.

 

Incidentally, targeting one specific artist's work and criticizing it post-release is a pretty low blow and not likely to win you any supporters.

Edited December 30, 2014 by LibbyLishly

[cyradis4]

Any OTHER contrarguments than "I'm anti-changes" maybe?

Yes:

Do not disrespect the Artists, so they don't pull their dragons from the site!

 

And its companion:

Don't disrespect artists, so they stop working on dragons for the site! They work for free, after all.

 

Just because you don't like how Holiday breeds are handled, doesn't mean that others also dislike it. I, personally, DO like it, and if you are familiar with me in this sub-forum, you know that calling me "anti-change" is ridiculous.

 

I strongly suspect that the reason the Christmas and Valentines dragons are single gender, whereas the Halloweens are both genders, is because the Christmas and Valentines dragons used to be limited, and are still limited as CBs.

 

C4.

[FourWinds]

Actually it makes no sense they were EVER brought to existence as X-gender only breeds...

Actually did you know that all true calico cats are female? It has something to do with chromosomes. So even in our world it actually could work.

[Sundew]

Actually did you know that all true calico cats are female?  It has something to do with chromosomes.  So even in our world it actually could work. 

That's not quite true; it's entirely possible, albeit difficult, to produce a male calico.

 

I don't see a reason for this. Alternate ideas have been given, and I think those should be addressed. Most of what I have to say has already been said in this topic--besides, I see no practical use in implementing this. Scroll goals are the only reason for, and not everyone's scroll goals can be met. It's a part of the game that I sorely doubt is going to change.

[birdzgoboom]

3. 5 per breed=For the sake of sprites: 2 adults(MF if dipomorphism), 2 S2s(MF if dipomorphism), S1 - no, GoNs limited to 3

IMPOSSIBLE

 

4. family of 5 per breed - all dragons related to the adult couple, is about sprites and lineages - no, GoNs not breeding true & limited to 3, NDs not breeding true(I substituted for breedign other coupels of mine), Zombies(same as NDs), Holidays(Chrismas, Valentines) being one-gender only each (exept Hollies) and not able to breed true

IMPOSSIBLE

 

(Mine is 4. + strict monogamy - challenging enough, but if only was POSSIBLE:/)

 

2 goals mostly possible if we ignore discontinued breeds... But actually any of the most basic and obvious goals to think of are UNACHIEVABLE!

Especially bolding that #3. You even say yourself-- "(MF if dimorphism)." IF dimorphism.

The holidays (other than Halloweens) and the GoN do NOT have dimorphism, so there is no need to collect five of them for this "goal." The GoN limit was originally two, but it got UPPED to three both for avatar breeding purposes and for the ability to collect one of each stage (S1/S2/Adult) if the player wanted to. That has already been addressed by TJ.

 

#4... That is a very specific scroll goal. I can tell you I've never personally thought of doing something like that with my scroll whatsoever, and I doubt that I'm the only one who thinks this way.

Expecting a Zombie to breed is, uh...questionable? It's literally a decaying, undead carcass of a dragon. I don't see how that would or should be able to breed at all. That's practically necrophilia, anyway.

 

Also, it's fine to have a monogamous-breeding/purebred-breeding headcanon for your scroll. But that isn't the problem of anyone else if you can't get exactly what you want, especially under a headcanon like that.

Besides, not all dragons were designed to be monogamous by their creators. I can say that my dragons are generally monogamous because that's just how I like to design them, but there are plenty of breeds out there that actively avoid monogamy. One that comes to mind in particular is the Bloodscale.

 

[Valentine's artist opinion incoming]

When Infinis and I designed the Radiant Angels, we designed them with the mindset that yes, they will be male-only. I cannot see the Radiant Angel being a female dragon. That is not how we envisioned them and it is not something that either of us would be a fan of (especially me, but I can't speak for Infi in terms of saltiness if RAs were suddenly both male and female).

 

Again, I'm sorry you cannot achieve some of the goals you set out for on the site. It sucks, I know. But it is not the end of the world, and people expressing their opposition towards your idea aren't doing it with malicious intent-- they just legitimately do not like the idea for one reason or another, just like you like the idea for one reason or another.

[cyradis4]

The large heart gene in horses also passes along the X-Chromosome. So a stallion (who has an x and y) can only pass it to his fillies, whereas a mare can pass it to her colts and her fillies.

 

Secretariat's mother, Somethingroyal, passed the large heart to Secretariat. Secretariat could only pass it to his daughters. Which is probably why Secretariat was a fantastic broodmare sire, but was a very poor sire of sires.

 

There are a number of genes linked to both the x and y chromosome. I see no reason why the Holiday species link couldn't be something similar.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Aniusia483]

I don't think Valentines / Christmas dragons were made single gender for logic reasons so much as game reasons. Those holidays were limited to 2 each to make it easy for everyone to get one, and having male / female split means people would've had to choose between getting an adult of each gender or being able to freeze one. Even now with limits lifted, people would have to choose between getting one of each gender or having the chance to replace refusals (ex: your male CB Gold refuses your female CB Solstice. If you had a CB male Solstice and a CB female Solstice, you're now plumb out of luck unless you get another male CB Gold, whereas if you had two CB female Solstices, you'd have another shot with the same Gold).

 

Because of that reason--and again because I don't think this makes sense--I'm against it. I really do sympathize with you having certain collection goals. I really do! But sometimes, we have to let those goals go. My goal was to get two CBs of every gender of every breed. I'll never have a CB Holly, though, or be able to get CB hybrids. Instead of letting that crush my spirits, though, I've set new guidelines regarding those breeds (get 2 second gens of each gender of each breed that I can't get as CB) and moved on. In this case, you might want to just pretend your Holiday dragons are wild siblings and breed them with something similar to them in appearance, or another Holiday, and keep the babies for freezie families.

The thing is that now they're not limited as a whole.

The thing with CB mates would just lift the difficulty but wouldnt' at least make it impossible...

 

The problem of this idea is that I won't have any spare dragons left in the end(all additional BSAs ans spare mates will be removed)... there will be just the same-breed families of each consisting of 5 members, 2 being the adult couple, AND I made my dragons capable of love, so they must remain monogamous...

The majority of my problem is a monogamy-unfriendly system... And I hate polygamy, it disgusts me, even in a pixel game.

Not even mentioning that every year at least one dragon is mate-less... And that I cannot guess if the couple will fit in look at least a little (e.g. Radiant Angel will have to be paired to the 2015 Valentine female(?) or maybe wait 2 more years in hope the other will fit; now the Mistletoe must wait for a mate till Christmas 2015 or more...)

would be less of pain if each new single-breed release was a double release: two breeds of opposite gender to each other that match in appearance (it's a bit like if they were of the same breed, just treated as two separate single-gender-only-breeds)? Would leave the one gender breeds idea but would allow matching mates and no singles...

[Jazeki]

I think the dragons are a certain gender because that's how the artists envision them to be and if TJ allows it, then hurray. In the same vein, hurray that artist sprites can be different than the rest of the dragons that are born that year.

 

At one point, pinks and purples were only female. Single-sex breeds are not a new concept and the single-sex of holidays makes sense due to their limited release and the fact that they started coming out when there were only female-species dragons floating about. That's not something that can just be ignored.

 

Just because the Solstice is a strong, blue dragon with antlers doesn't mean that she has to be male. She's built for wintertime. It doesn't make sense for her to be a slender twig of a thing when there's snow all over and she's spending time making sure people lost in snow are safe and warm in her fluff.

 

Also, I don't think anyone is completely anti-change on DC. This is just a change that undoes more things in DC than it improves. I like some of the same sex sprites together, but I don't want to change breeding mechanics to address it.

 

I like the suggestion that ADP made where things are retroactively influence-able and Naruhina's lore that there are infertile holiday dragons of various species somewhere, but if an artist comes out and says no (especially in relation to her concept), there isn't really a point in pushing it.

 

Edit: As for monogamy, there are eight Christmas species now (each one gender save for hollies, but for the sake of this argument, they classify male only) and they could be paired off because the gender ratio is evenly split between the breeds now if purebred holidays are what you are looking for.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Jazeki