DC Gold

[Dolphinsong]

Hard to not buy 'overpriced things' when everything is at the same price.

[Pokemonfan13]

Well, by the time things get to that point the economy is already failing because people are going to stop accepting currency for things if a CB black is almost the same price as a CB gold.

[RheaZen]

If no one buys at the high price, people will price lower. That's how the market goes. Supply and demand.

[Dolphinsong]

Guess you don't understand how people work then. I've seen WAY over priced items on the broker in EverQuest 2 that I play. Guess what, months later, ITS AT THE SAME FREAKING PRICE THAT IT WAS AT. Didnt' change at all dispite the fact no one was buying it.

[RheaZen]

And yet on MS, no one will buy a koi fish (one of the more common and easier to hatch creatures) for over 500g.

 

Hm. I guess we both have our anecdotal evidence. Do they cancel each other out, in that case?

 

Edit: Spelling.

Edited November 10, 2012 by RheaZen

[Pokemonfan13]

One person in this case is using an example of a rare item that is rarely in the market, the other a common item that is always in the market and people are able to price battle on.

 

The problem is that unlike how I imagine these markets work [can only base on GaiaOnline] dragcave does not list the items in the order of how much is being asked for them. On sites where it is a list market it is exceptionally easy to compare prices and choose the cheapest one.

 

With dragcave you can only get a rough sense of the market value of something, and even then it might be biased if you don't understand the value of other eggs or more people than average are demanding outrageous prices. So the fair price for a CB black might be 50 currency, but someone who doesn't trade in blacks on a daily basis could very easily be suckered into buying one for 70 or even 100 because they can't easily see all the ones that are priced at 50, or maybe there were 5 asking 150 and they saw 100 as a BARGAIN and bought it before they saw any at 50. There will always be people pricing it higher hoping they'll net a nice big fish, and they could very easily drive up the going rate if enough people follow their lead.

Edited November 10, 2012 by Pokemonfan13

[RheaZen]

That's the risk that comes with an economy like such. You could always have a "how much is it worth?" thread for people who don't know the general gist of pricing.

 

Also, Dolphin's post made no mention of the rarity of the items in question. There's also no way to tell if people put up for sale the same sort of items at lower prices and managed to sell them at those lower prices.

Edited November 10, 2012 by RheaZen

[StormWizard212]

And technically DC does have paid perks, just not ones related to obtaining new dragons.

If you're talking about the ad block, TJ has said that he's done a lot of research into whether the removal of ads actually gives an advantage to catching dragons, and he's concluded that it doesn't since the eggs load before the ads do anyway. So the removal of ads isn't something I'd consider a paid 'perk'.

 

From what I've seen/heard, a lot of the people who use that feature of the game are people who already block ads with an add on to their browser and donate to the site to pay back for the loss of income due to blocking ads, and this new feature is a way for them to do that more conveniently. Personally, I kind of see it more as a donation than a purchase.

 

I don't want to get too off topic though, but all I really wanted to say is that I don't particularly want to see any money aspect added to the game, whether it be real life money or in game money. I like the game how it is already and there are too many potential problems that other people have brought up that I just don't think make this worthwhile. :/ Sorry!

[RheaZen]

It's a perk in that it allows one to browse the cave ad-free. You give money, and you get something in return. Sounds like a purchase to me. I did say that it was not related to obtaining dragons (perhaps the "new" threw things off a bit).

[Tehpikachu]

Hard to not buy 'overpriced things' when everything is at the same price.

It'll be like real life then!

There's always a place you can go to get a discount.

Won't that be fun.

[KageSora]

It's a perk in that it allows one to browse the cave ad-free. You give money, and you get something in return. Sounds like a purchase to me. I did say that it was not related to obtaining dragons (perhaps the "new" threw things off a bit).

I'm not really sure how it's a "paid perk" when you can get the exact same service for absolutely free via adblockers and not donating.

[RheaZen]

I'm not really sure how it's a "paid perk" when you can get the exact same service for absolutely free via adblockers and not donating.

True, true.

[Fuzzbucket]

With dragcave you can only get a rough sense of the market value of something, and even then it might be biased if you don't understand the value of other eggs or more people than average are demanding outrageous prices.

Also value in the cave IS subjective to a large degree. So my outrageous price for a gold might be dirt cheap for someone else, and the price I am willing to pay for x (a few months ago it was 2nd gen grey X shadows !!!) might be so high that it would skew the market for others.

 

Supply and demand here is deeply peculiar.

[Slaskia]

Another problem with a price cap is that you'll have 'flippers': people that will buy the items that are lower in price than their offers and resell them at a higher price. Things like that are upsetting to people in the MMO community, especially for those that price things low to keep it 'fair' for newbies to the game.

 

Granted, such a thing may not be such an issue due to scroll limits, but I can still see it happening to some extent.

[HeatherMarie]

I just deeply, deeply don't like the idea of the CAVE setting "values" for breeds, with regards to a store or something. I *like* that us users are free to value what we want... I like that there are people who would jump up and down if I gifted them a failTinsel. Even though others won't even take those anymore.

 

I've always liked that breeds/lineages/etc mean different things to different people. I don't give a rat's butt about lineages, and in-game that's perfectly okay. Am I going to have to start being careful about how I breed, just so it's "worth" more to sell to the store?

 

I just really can't see how this idea would be a good thing for DragonCave as a whole.

[olympe]

The idea was never to sell anything to the store - either you find a fellow player who values your lineage, or you don't.

 

Also, with exception of the prices the shop demands for CB dragons, there is no value set to something. If the shop charged 1000 gold pieces for a CB gold, you could probably sell one you caught in the cave for 950 or something. Maybe even 980, 990. Probably more than 1000 if it has a cool code (like TJ09g or MiDaS or something). Just saying.

[StormWizard212]

I just deeply, deeply don't like the idea of the CAVE setting "values" for breeds, with regards to a store or something. I *like* that us users are free to value what we want... I like that there are people who would jump up and down if I gifted them a failTinsel. Even though others won't even take those anymore.

 

I've always liked that breeds/lineages/etc mean different things to different people. I don't give a rat's butt about lineages, and in-game that's perfectly okay. Am I going to have to start being careful about how I breed, just so it's "worth" more to sell to the store?

 

I just really can't see how this idea would be a good thing for DragonCave as a whole.

This exactly. Something like this, even if it was optional, would really change the way that a lot of us play the game and I'd hate to see people feeling like they have to play a certain way.

[RainDear]

I hate to argue in favor of something that I am opposed to, but the way I understand the OP, a store was not part of the proposal.

 

As I understand it, we can collect gold by raising eggs and use the gold in trade; as in:

 

HAVE:

 

CB Gold egg

 

WANT:

 

3 CB Stripes

or

2 2 gen Thuweds

or

750 Gold

 

This way, the owner of the egg sets the value he wants for it, just as he does now. No eggs are "created" for gold. The only way to trade eggs for gold is through the same trading of caught/bred eggs that we already do, just with gold someone who is unable to catch the more difficult eggs will have a better chance of being able to trade what he can get (gold) for something he wants.

 

If I am misunderstanding the concept, please let me know.

[Fuzzbucket]

There was a suggestion for a store as we would HAVE to have a money sink.

[RainDear]

OK, I didn't read all the posts. That makes me even more against it.

[olympe]

The problem with adding money to a game without a money sink is quite simply inflation. It might not be so bad in the beginning, but imagine what things would be like five years down the road. If you can get money from the game for anything - be it raising dragons or clicking other people's stuff or whatever - the amount of money in the game will rise. Steeply. Meaning that money will lose its worth. Now, imagine you're a new player who hasn't had five years to acquire money. You'll be totally out of the loop because you'll never be able to catch up with the people who've been there for five years or longer. Never ever.

 

So, a money sink is needed. Buying random stuff that nobody really needs and most people don't want in the first place kind of defeats the purpose, for a money sink where nobody puts their money in is as good as no money sink at all. So, what could DC offer for you (and most of the rest of the community) to actually want to buy it?

 

The alternative, as proposed by stogucheme (I think) was heavy regulation: Regulating how much money a player can acquire, how much they can spend on one day, how much a dragon may cost (with a small margin), and if several people offered the same amount of gold on something, there would be a lottery to find out who wins the bid.

 

And once again, without a money sink, people will acquire more money - until they reach the maximum. Once there, they won't be able to ask for money for their dragons, because they cannot keep it anyway. So, in effect, money becomes worthless after a certain amount.

[RainDear]

Yes, there is no way to make this concept work without changing the game far too much for my tastes.

[Pokemonfan13]

Even with EXTREME regulation there would still be inflation. If nothing else everyone would hit their caps and nobody would be able to use gold because the seller wouldn't have any room to take in new gold. xP

 

It's this simple. If you can earn money from the cave a money sink is required. Period, end of story. No matter how you fiddle with economies without money sinks you have the same result: valueless money = collapse.

 

The ONLY way to not have a money sink is to not have money earned from the cave. When the feature is introduced each account has x amount of money given to it. Each new account also has x amount of money. The main problem with this is it would encourage the creation of multi-accounts that are created, stripped of money, then abandoned. Because of this there would probably have to at least have a low sales tax to take that extra money out. And this doesn't make much sense either, since a CB gold would have to be worth several times the default money or a newbie would be able to instantly buy a CB gold. [basically too many problems]

 

I also assert that having an egg shop as the money sink is death to this concept. If nothing else it would completely change the nature of the game.

 

And remember that a LOT of people have said that is anything similar to this concept is released they'd LEAVE dragcave. There are lots of sites with money systems, what's wrong with DC being DIFFERENT???

 

 

 

And PLEASE put up a poll! Without one we can only get a rough sense of how people feel about this [although I'm getting a TON of negative]

 

Suggested options:

 

YES!! Add it to the site now!!!!

Yes, but with some changes [will post]

It might be nice

Unsure/neutral

It wouldn't affect me at all

I probably wouldn't like it

No, but might be improved [will post]

NO!!!!!

I MIGHT/WILL LEAVE IF THIS IS ADDED TO DRAGCAVE!!!!!!!!!

 

 

It's important to have a wide range of choices like this and roughly the same number of positive and negative options. I have the "leave" option there, adding an extra to "negative", because that is a sentiment that has been expressed in this thread and there isn't a similar thing to add to the "yes" side. You also need the leaning ones because if you only have the "can be improved" leaning ones people will vote that without posting suggestions if they don't feel strongly but also don't have any suggestions.

 

Personally, if you don't add a fair poll like the one I gave options for I'm going to assume it's because you're afraid to put numbers as to how unpopular this concept is. I just can't think of another reason to not have a poll in a hotly debated thread like this since it makes it REALLY easy to know public opinion and therefore makes things a lot easier for TJ.

Edited November 11, 2012 by Pokemonfan13

[TemperedBreeder]

If you want, PF13, I'll put up a poll...

[KageSora]

I would also suggest a "No, and it would make me consider leaving" option for the people who have said that they might not leave right away, but they would be (strongly) reconsidering sticking with DC were it to be implemented/likely leave down the road.

Edited November 11, 2012 by KageSora